SmartCarbs

[Diploman]

Anyone used these?  Impressive claims.  Made by a BRP subsidiary.


https://technologyelevatedco.com

[John in PA]

Amazing that in this day and age a completely new principle for carburetor design should appear!

[RinkRat II]

       Pretty impressive indeed! A little spendy, but the hot ticket if your riding to Nepal.

      Paul B

[Rick in WNY]

Very interesting...

I'd like to see a one to one comparison done on a dyno.

Standard carb vs this one, each mounted on the same engine.

Measure the incoming air charge, fuel consumption, HP and Torque, and exhaust gas mix.

Show me the data!

[oldbike54]

 What are the claims ? 10% increase in horsepower , a 30% increase in fuel mileage , blah blah blah . Have they found a loophole in the laws of physics ?

[lazlokovacs]

I speed-read the tech bit and I don't get it

whats the magic thing that its supposed to be doing?

looks just like a regular carburettor with no jets???

[not-fishing]

What are the claims ? 10% increase in horsepower , a 30% increase in fuel mileage , blah blah blah . Have they found a loophole in the laws of physics ?

 

Dusty you're showing your age and experience --- but I agree.  It's just another Super - Duper - Sonic - Computers - Lazer that slices and dices to me.

Butt Wait - If You Act Right Now........

[rdbandkab]

When I raced off-road,  my wish was always to be able to adjust all jetting with the turn of a knob or screwdriver.   Not have to remove the carb to get to the pilot, needle, slide, or mains.   If I remember,  we could do some mild tuning with the air screw or idle knob.  Woohoo!!!
LOL..   Ahhhh the days of different temp plugs also.

[wirespokes]

No, it's not magic or free energy or anything like that. I don't know what this carb's story is, but it reminds me of the Lectrons. My friend has one on his Husky. There's a new owner of the company and he did a lot of research and development. My friend told me about it because his carb was one of the experimental models and he tested it and gave feedback. The carb went back to the factory quite a few times before the kinks were all ironed out. Once all done, the bike had more power and got something like 20 more miles to the gallon. The one thing I recall from his description of the carb was the needle. And I guess that was one of the main points of the thing - the needle has a flat edge running up and down it. It's keyed so the flat edge is on the engine side causing a venturi effect drawing the fuel out of the float bowl. The flat is machined in such a way as to eliminate any jets, since it acts like all of them in one.

I owned a Fish carburetor for a while and had a real good look at it. It was just a small thing - much smaller than a Weber for my car, but supposedly needed an engine 300 cubes or more. I tried it on my 2000cc Volvo and there was no way I could lean it out enough. That thing was pretty interesting too - only one jet. Essentially the carb was a downdraft (there were side draft models as well) with an arm run off of the butterfly. The end of that arm ran along the bottom of the float bowl matching up with a groove that widened the farther the butterfly opened. Fuel was drawn from that groove, up the arm, into the butterfly shaft and then down the throat. This carb was THE hot ticket for racers in the 50s.

There are many stories of carbs that got incredible mileage - check Smokey Yunik or the Pogue Carburetor. There were many more, but the idea is that we're only using about 20% of the fuel, the rest fouls the engine and atmosphere. It's only the vaporized fuel around the droplets that actually burns in the combustion chamber. So the problem is how to vaporize ALL of the fuel and not have it EXPLODE prematurely blowing off the top of the motor. The Pogue supposedly got 200 miles per gallon, but some of them did blow up.

So I don't think it's magic or false PR necessarily because I know it's possible to get better mileage and more horsepower with carburetor changes.

[inditx]

These guys are for real. I personally know the owner and have followed him for years.
Pricey, yes but the claims are real.
I approve this message!

inditx

[oldbike54]

 Two words , Stoichiometric Ratio . Look them up .

 Dusty

[Diploman]

After reading the technical discussion of these carbs, I think the principal advantage being claimed for the SmartCarb is the ability to atomize fuel into smaller droplets than is possible with either FI or conventional jetted carbs.  If this is indeed true, then it would make sense that the SmartCarb enables more efficient combustion - thus higher performance and lower fuel consumption than other devices for mixing/dosing fuel and air.  Smaller droplets present more surface area for combustion, burning faster and more completely than larger droplets.  This would extract more energy from a given quantity of fuel. If the superior atomization is a fact, not just a claim, then the SmartCarb may indeed be a step forward in fueling, and might have some advantages over FI and conventional carbs.  Side-by-side dyno tests of the same motor with standard carbs, fuel injection and SmartCarbs would seem the formula for validating or dismissing the SmartCarb claims.  Apparently these carbs do have supporters who believe they are for real and do what is claimed.  The made-in-USA SmartCarbs are pricey, but certainly would attract buyers if the latter could be assured of an easy performance and efficiency boost.  Interesting concept that bears further investigation, IMO.

[inditx]

That’s it diploman.

In fact the creator of the original design worked on and made carbs for team Triumph back in the day. His design for this carb recognized this and he did all of the design without computer and he did not have an engineering degree.
Sometimes we are confounded by what the mind is capable of especially before or without todays technologies.
Cory and company have improved upon that design and moved to manufacturing it.
There are manufacturers who are interested in it and are investigating it btw.

inditx

[oldbike54]

 First off , a showerhead fuel injector really close to the intake valve or intake port on a two stroke will break the fuel mixture up into smaller drops than any carb design . This jetless design goes back to about 1945 , the Brits tried it and found it really doesn't offer any advantages . Unless these folks have found a way to bend the laws of physics ...

 And what was "Team Triumph"? Triumph used AMAL carbs except for a very brief period when because of contract disputes they employed SU carbs on the bikes . Color me very skeptical .

 Dusty

[inditx]

Duly noted oldbike54.   

I have no vested interest in this company or their carbs.
I can tell you the folks running it are top notch and in fact, the outside testing that has been done have exceeded their claims.

Btw, Bill “Red” Edmonson invented the Lake and Lectron carburetors and provided them for Triumph flat trackers back in the day.

inditx

[oldbike54]

Duly noted oldbike54.   

I have no vested interest in this company or their carbs.
I can tell you the folks running it are top notch and in fact, the outside testing that has been done have exceeded their claims.

Btw, Bill “Red” Edmonson invented the Lake and Lectron carburetors and provided them for Triumph flat trackers back in the day.

inditx

 OK , the American Triumph flat track team , got it . Just curious , are they still doing part throttle instead of full throttle dyno tests ?

 Dusty

[inditx]

Good question Dusty, I’ll ask them. Not sure how they dyno'd them.

p.s. I know they’ve had great success with Pikes Peak runs on Gas Gas bikes. 

[Chuck in Indiana]

 Since Mouser is "experimental" I've done some 'sperimenten..  over the last (gasp) 37 years she's been flying. For years, I ran a Posa..a variable throttle body much like the Smart carb. It made good power at wide open and cruise, but idle mixture was a crap shoot. I drilled a hole in the slide and ran a set screw in to vary the air mixture at idle and it was better.
Tried a conventional carb for easier starting and idle. It worked, but was down on power compared to the Posa.
The latest version is sold by the designer of Mouser, and is in theory much like the Posa, but with a working idle mixture and idle cutoff, just like a real airplane carburetor.  In addition, it gets better fuel economy, apparently because of "better atomization" as claimed by the SmartCarb people. Trust me on this. For the same speed at cruise (130mph) she burns 4 gallons per hour instead of 5.
Just my results with similar tech.
2018-05-29_09-38-45 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr

[Rough Edge racing]

What are the claims ? 10% increase in horsepower , a 30% increase in fuel mileage , blah blah blah . Have they found a loophole in the laws of physics ?

 No loopholes for advertising.We all know every engine has minimum fuel consumption requirements to make enough power to do the job at hand...It appears to be only for two strokes? ....Look up Lectron carburetor, another different design that never got popular....The old SU CV was a single circuit carburetor....

[Two Checks]

Smart Carbs....is this a product for diabetics?


This sounds like a rehash of the old variable venture carb. Ford even tried them. Iirc the brand name was Kendig.

[inditx]

Not only for 2 strokes.
I will try to provide the testing results.
Again, I am not affiliated nor have any interest in this company.
I do however consider the founder my friend and so scoff if you will just don’t question his integrity please. He is also an engineer, inventor and professor.

Thanks,
inditx

[PJPR01]

I thought this topic was about Smart Carbs...as in healthier carbs (and proteins) for you!  Got suckered in!     

[Diploman]

I dropped a note to Corey Dyess, CEO of Technology Elevated, noting that the link to his SmartCarb site posted on WildGuzzi had generated interest, discussion and a lot of skepticism. I asked if he could supply any test data to substantiate the claims made Re: SmartCarb performance vs. conventional carbs and FI.
In response, Cory sent me the attached PDF:


TEC II presentation without video.pdf

[inditx]

I did the same thing diploman!
I couldn’t open your pdf though.
Thanks
inditx

[Turin]

I'd like to read that as well. Please post.

[Diploman]

Sorry guys.  I'm having a struggle trying to post the PDF Corey Dyess sent me.

Can someone more IT-savvy than me please give me a little tutorial on how to take a PDF from gmail and post it on WildGuzzi, using a Mac?  Thanks.

[Diploman]

Corey Dyess's PDF on SmartCarbs Testing: (scroll to bottom)


https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/#inbox/FMfcgxvzLhZXRfGkRXffZxFzFSKNlnnL?projector=1&messagePartId=0.1

[oldbike54]

 The link isn't doing anything but taking me to my own Email account ????

 Dusty

[Diploman]

I thought I had solved the conundrum of how to post the PDF.  I guess not.  Will keep trying - the PDF, I think, is quite interesting, and shows results from a testing laboratory.

[larrys]

Duly noted oldbike54.   
I have no vested interest in this company or their carbs.
I can tell you the folks running it are top notch and in fact, the outside testing that has been done have exceeded their claims.
Btw, Bill “Red” Edmonson invented the Lake and Lectron carburetors and provided them for Triumph flat trackers back in the day.
inditx

I still have a pair of 30mm Lectrons I ran on a 800cc big bore Bonneville. I played with a couple of sets of different needles for them, but never was able to get them right for the street. You could adjust the height of the needle in 1/2 turn increments. The carbs really needed an idle circuit.
Larry