The "Niche" bikes. Why don't they sell?

[willowstreetguzziguy]

We've seen it many times over the years that the major motorcycle manufacturers put out "mostly" bland bike for the USA market. Then we enthusiasts spot some cool bike given to other markets around the world. We cry for these bikes and then when they come here, they sell a few, but mostly sit in the showroom for a year or two and then they're gone because they didn't sell. The Honda GB500 mentioned on the cragslist here several days ago is a good example, but there are many others.

I'm sure they sell a few of the cool niche bikes. But why do bland bikes sell here but the cool niche bikes sit in the showroom?

QUESTION: Why isn't the enthusiasm here in the USA that seems to exist in Europe and other parts of the world? Is it culture, the roads, disposable income or something else?

[Lannis]

I think it's the same phenomenon where an artist or an author can't sell any of their work when they're alive, but when they die of malnutrition in a garret apartment, suddenly their work is selling for millions.

"THEY'RE NOT MAKING ANY MORE OF THESE!!"

Lannis

[tiger_one]

It hurts for sure.  I listed my bike twice on craigslist, then twice on ebay, nothing but viewers and watchers.  Not a single email or question, and I had a really good price to start and no reserve.

So I keep riding, but probably will list again in spring when the possible fly and ride buyers can get out in the weather.  17s for most bikes will not be released till the 16s sell, lots of 16s SDRs, R1200R/RS, K1600GTL . . . etc.

[Triple Jim]

QUESTION: Why isn't the enthusiasm here in the USA that seems to exist in Europe and other parts of the world? Is it culture, the roads, disposable income or something else?

I think it's because in a lot of cases the Europeans didn't get many, or possibly didn't get any, when they were manufactured.  I know that in the Kawasaki triples world, the Europeans are hot to get them and pay more than they could get them for here, because they are quite a bit more rare over there.

I was told by a couple Europeans that my Mille GT is very desirable there because they are rare in that country (can't remember which ones).

[Rusnak_322]

Some times bad timing. The market isn't ready yet or in some cases the niche bike can help start a new market segment tat takes some time to grow.

Cafe racers were very popular starting about 10 years ago. Had Honda introduced the GB500 then it may well have taken off. Look at the number of factory cafe bikes now.


Also look at the adventure touring market. In the 1990 's there were bike that fit that yet unnamed segment and they were pretty much niche bikes. The BMW bikes were there, but not really hugely popular compared with today. But they and bikes like the translap and other laid seed to the segment.

[Sasquatch Jim]

  I think it is because most of the buyers are bland people.  That's why they buy bland bikes.
 My 750 aero Shadow is about as bland as they come, until I get my hands on it and set it up as a sidecar machine.
 A good sidecar machine needs a bland bike with a wide torque band and heavy frame to take the stresses of sidecar miles.  It has filled the bill for seven years now and is still going dependably.  Two cylinders with one carb is easy to synchronize and never gets out of tune.  Bland bikes only need simple maintenance, and don't cost much.
 I got mine brand new with no miles in 2009 for 4 thousand out the door.  Put the hack on it and have been using it ever since.  It is on it's fifth rear tire and 4th front tire and about 4 sidecar tires.  Recently I put on new throttle cables and clutch cable.  The rest is oil and filter changes and valve check about every ten thousand miles.  This last time I had to adjust the exhaust valves only, the time before that no adjustments.  Sometimes bland can be good.
 Oh, and on its' third set of front calipers,   Rear shoes still original.

[kingoffleece]

Motorcycle magazines are part of it, too.  Look at the American offerings.  All of a sudden a 135hp Speed Triple is "old news" against the new KTM 1290 with over 160hp-for a road bike.  Geez.  I'm not telling anybody what to ride but every American bike mag touts the latest and greatest high hp bike as a must have.

I get several European magazines as well and it's a totally different read.  Besides way less emphasis on hp they are much more interested in writing about all the different machines.   For this reader BIKE and MSL are 100x more interesting to read than CycleWorld or Motorcyclist.

[Penderic]

Because ..... 'I wanna a niche bike' buyers are fickle and easily tempted by competing desires!




"there was this nifty little shoppe right next to the motorcycle store and I just couldn't resist! "
 

[Arizona Wayne]

My Suzuki VX800 is a good example.   A great dependable, relatively fast bike for it's size when it was new, `90.  But since it only cost $4,500 new and the handlebar made for a twitchy feeling ride, I figure that's why it didn't sell better.  The US had them for 3 years but in Europe they sold for years longer.  I replaced the handlebar to a superbike bar and then the bike handled GREAT!  I figure too many customers thought since it didn't cost more thought it was a POS when in reality it was the opposite with a top speed of 127 mph.  Until I got my `00 MuZ 660 Tour single it was the best handling bike I had ever owned.  I still have both. 

[Huzo]

Might be a blessing in disguise. If Guzzis sold in the tens of thousands, they wouldn't be as "niche", and then when you saw ANOTHER BLOODY ONE, you'd hardly take a second look, something like a GS 500 Suzuki or similar, very reliable and good at what they do, but so is a wooden spoon or plastic bucket. Do you agree that when you see a stranger in your neighbourhood on a Guzzi, you're inclined to go and try to see who he is and what does he think of his bike ? I think there's something in "us" that want to be seen as "fringe dwellers" because I'd dare to mention that on most KPI's a Moto Guzzi does not rate as the "best" bike any particular where, but for me after 30 or so road registered bikes, I've never wanted a different or another one less. If you crashed your Guzzi today and totally destroyed it but was still able to walk away, would you buy another one the same ? I would try to get one identical to mine again, never been able to say that about any of the others, even a couple of so called "boutique" sport bikes.

[Arizona Wayne]

It's true I don't want something most everybody else has too, no matter what it is.  I'm an individual. 

[Cool Runnings]

We've seen it many times over the years that the major motorcycle manufacturers put out "mostly" bland bike for the USA market. Then we enthusiasts spot some cool bike given to other markets around the world. We cry for these bikes and then when they come here, they sell a few, but mostly sit in the showroom for a year or two and then they're gone because they didn't sell. The Honda GB500 mentioned on the cragslist here several days ago is a good example, but there are many others.

I'm sure they sell a few of the cool niche bikes. But why do bland bikes sell here but the cool niche bikes sit in the showroom?

QUESTION: Why isn't the enthusiasm here in the USA that seems to exist in Europe and other parts of the world? Is it culture, the roads, disposable income or something else?

The FJR wasn't slatted for the America market.

[Huzo]

Sorry one more thing... I reckon a lot of guys buy a certain common bike so they can say inaudibly "look, I'm just like you",  I mean why the hell else would you get an R1 with #46 on it in blue and dayglo yellow? Or here in Oz it was a Casey Stoner replica Repsol CBR 1000 Honda. Would a guy buy an R1 in the same livery as Rossi's, if it had #91 or some other non descript digit splashed over it or Casey's CBR with something other than 27 ? I'd say not. They wanna say "I'm just like him, look at me" in our case I contend that what we say is "I'm different to him, look at me". With a Guzzi you've made a statement, with the CBR or the R1, someone else has made it for you... I think ! And please don't become indignant and say "I didn't get a bike so people would look at me", that's not the driver I know, but you can't deny that when you walk back to your Cali or whatever and it's parked next to a GSX 1100 Suzuki with faded black paint and a cracked fairing screen , you just know which bike the questions will be about and how did that make you feel last time ???

[johnr]

I think you make a good point Huzo. I most certainly don't want to go round a corner and find another half dozen bikes the same as mine. I want mine to have a certain uniqueness. 

[Kev m]

I think you make a good point Huzo. I most certainly don't want to go round a corner and find another half dozen bikes the same as mine. I want mine to have a certain uniqueness.

I dunno, there are pluses and minuses.

On the one hand I like the uniqueness. Though frankly I think part of that (if we're honest with ourselves) is partially a smugness, we know better...

On the other hand it means dealers are far fewer between, as are parts sources, and especially accessories.

Harleys may be downright ubiquitous, but you can buy nearly anything you can think of, from multiple sources and in multiple colors.

[sidecarnutz]

Last year I paid good money for a 2003 Royal Enfield 500 Bullet in maroon and chrome. It had 1300 original miles on it.

Its next to my Cali III in the garage!

In many places that would be a sign of mental illness. ;-)

ETA; Putting a Ural sidecar on the Guzzi too. Don't want my collection to be seen as too common!

[webmost]

I think you make a good point Huzo. I most certainly don't want to go round a corner and find another half dozen bikes the same as mine. I want mine to have a certain uniqueness.

... and yet, the owners of rare bikes flock to breakfasts, rallies, rides, fora, campouts, shows ... any excuse to jaw with owners of rare bikes similar to theirs.

[bad Chad]

Guzzi could quadruple its sales in north america and still be a niche player, so there is plenty of room to grow without selling out!

Interesting point, putting some blame on moto mags, not sure its justified, but thought provoking.  I can't even begin to count how many times I have read something about the KTM 1290, I mean really, how many can they possibly be selling, yet every mag seems obsessed with the bike?

[Triple Jim]

I can't even begin to count how many times I have read something about the KTM 1290, I mean really, how many can they possibly be selling, yet every mag seems obsessed with the bike?

Funny, after riding the 390 Duke on the Dragon this spring, I'm a little obsessed with it.   

[rboe]

 I bought my CB1100 because: it reminded me of the glory days if in inline fours (more me, think the first Mad Max movie), looks like a proper motorcycle for this old school mind and was big enough, chassis wise, for my long framed body. It ticked a lot of boxes for me.

And it seemed to me to be a niche bike (which seems to be somewhat true) and not nearly as common as Griso's are in my neck of the woods.

The fact that it handles very nicely in town, superb brakes, has a certain character to it (much different than the Guzzi, no better, just different) - it's just damn nice and easy to live with. As I age and my body gives me problems, I'd rather not have other problems crop up with my bikes (and I don't really have that many issues with myself falling apart either - but I ain't 16 any more either). Besides; my 650L has given me enough drama for three bikes. :p (I'm hoping a new, properly sized liner, will finally cure its' woes)

If Kawasaki imported the W800 I'd be very keen on getting one. But I'm trying to limit the size of the fleet. Between taxes, batteries and tires (to say nothing of carbs) I'm finding fewer is better than a lot.

[Huzo]

I dunno, there are pluses and minuses.



On the other hand it means dealers are far fewer between, as are parts sources, and especially accessories.

Yeah if you'll excuse my uncharacteristic smugness and tendency to talk about myself... who needs a dealer, I live a nice riding distance from BUNGENDORE !!!! Suffer lads...BTW, that'd be plusses  and Harlies. (Plural for Harley) but happy to start a thread and debate those two. (Just for fun of course) Not sure I'm right (for once) c'mon Kev, out with the sword.

[Kev m]

Yeah if you'll excuse my uncharacteristic smugness and tendency to talk about myself... who needs a dealer, I live a nice riding distance from BUNGENDORE !!!! Suffer lads...BTW, that'd be plusses  and Harlies. (Plural for Harley) but happy to start a thread and debate those two. (Just for fun of course) Not sure I'm right (for once) c'mon Kev, out with the sword.

It's all good my friend.

I can only dream what it would be like to be able to fall back on Mr Roper when the need hit, even with a whore's purse if I was so inclined.

That said yeah other then the occasional warranty service I've not let a dealer touch anything in decades.

[Huzo]

... and yet, the owners of rare bikes flock to breakfasts, rallies, rides, fora, campouts, shows ... any excuse to jaw with owners of rare bikes similar to theirs.

Yeah that's a good point too I guess. How big can a gathering get before you have to stop saying, "look at us, we're unique". I'm reminded of that great quote by Murray Walker, the voice of Formula One, when he screamed in high pitch "That car of "........'s, is absolutely unique, just like the one following". Oh dear. Even he laughed when played back to him.

[Huzo]

It's all good my friend.

I can only dream what it would be like to be able to fall back on Mr Roper when the need hit, even with a whore's purse if I was so inclined.

That said yeah other then the occasional warranty service I've not let a dealer touch anything in decades.

Damn right one point # 1 Kev. Trying not to sound like a complete tosser,( more like an incomplete tosser), having a drink the night before and a private tutorial (none of which I really understood) then an escorted ride to check and THEN... "would you like to try the other map".. Bugger me, like owning a cat house and thinking, which one ????... Sorry, (sort of).

[johnr]

I dunno, there are pluses and minuses.

On the one hand I like the uniqueness. Though frankly I think part of that (if we're honest with ourselves) is partially a smugness, we know better...

On the other hand it means dealers are far fewer between, as are parts sources, and especially accessories.

Harleys may be downright ubiquitous, but you can buy nearly anything you can think of, from multiple sources and in multiple colors.

Well smugness, though I would call it satisfaction myself, if you like Kev.

I have never owned a bike that had a local dealership ('cept for an A7 Kawasaki that I couldn't get rid of fast enough) 

There were Motorcycle shops (as opposed to Honda shops etc.) but they had very little if anything on the shelves for a 16 year old BSA A10 or later for the BSA Rocket 3 (as there were only 12 of those sold new in the country) and even less for the Vintage Royal Enfield I owned for a while and rebuilt.

I guess I'm just used to having to establish good lines of supply, usually from overseas, and having to send for anything I need so I don't perceive the disadvantage there.

[drums4money]

I haven't traveled Europe, but I have family and acquaintances who have.  They seem to consistently report swarms of two-wheelers among urban traffic.  I've seen that in Asia, too.

S.W.A.G.(Scientific Wild Ass Guess)

I suppose one could infer that other countries may have more 2-wheeled DNA than the US either through convenience or necessity. Not everyone can afford a motorcycle - or several - as a luxury.  Many may require it as a supplement to public transportation? 

I've got a hunch that the size of the niche cycle market is probably right-sized in proportion to the number of riders overall.  The combined manufacturing capacity of "niche" machines likely exceeds the market.  "If you build it; they will come" doesn't necessarily work unless the entire pie is getting larger.  I also suspect that's why some manufacturers are trying sooo hard to get the 1st-time buyer with models like the Ducati Scrambler, or KTM 390's, or Guzzi V7.  Everyone's fighting hard for the 1st purchase, and the consumer hasn't had time to become an enthusiast, yet.  The bikes are comparably awesome looking way back to my first little Ninja 250.

Back to my regularly scheduled PBR. 

[drums4money]

Funny, after riding the 390 Duke on the Dragon this spring, I'm a little obsessed with it.   

I have deep want for an RC390!

[Huzo]

There were Motorcycle shops (as opposed to Honda shops etc.) but they had very little if anything on the shelves for a 16 year old BSA A10 or later for the BSA Rocket 3 (as there were only 12 of those sold new in the country) and even less for the Vintage Royal Enfield I owned for a while and rebuilt.

Would be nice to still have the Rocket 3 though wouldn't it Kev ?

[Huzo]

Sorry guys but I always do this... just re read the thread title "Niche bikes, why don't they sell?" I guess if they sold really well, then they wouldn't be niche bikes anymore.

[Nic in Western NYS]

I have deep want for an RC390!

Anyone ride both an RC390 and a MG V7II? Not interested in specs, just subjective riding feel.