Author Topic: Re Bore of Griso 1100 engine.  (Read 16888 times)

Offline Murray

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3048
Re: Re Bore of Griso 1100 engine.
« Reply #60 on: December 17, 2018, 07:33:59 PM »
Motorcycle Consumer News recorded the top speed of the 2-valve Griso at 129.3 mph (208 kph), not the 112 mph (180 kph) you pulled out of your derriere. The 4-valve went 143.95 mph (231.6 kph).

Moto

So even the 4 valve is barely faster than a 20year old 1100 sport.

Moto

  • Guest
Re: Re Bore of Griso 1100 engine.
« Reply #61 on: December 17, 2018, 08:16:30 PM »
The point is that your figures were wrong.

Moto


pete roper

  • Guest
Re: Re Bore of Griso 1100 engine.
« Reply #62 on: December 17, 2018, 08:19:11 PM »
So even the 4 valve is barely faster than a 20year old 1100 sport.

No, the 8V isn't a lot faster but it will get you there a lot quicker!

Pete

Offline Turin

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 5146
    • crap and stuff
  • Location: Chandler, Arizona
Re: Re Bore of Griso 1100 engine.
« Reply #63 on: December 17, 2018, 08:40:24 PM »
1997 Daytona RS
1991 Rennsport California III
1991 LeMans 1000
1987 LeMans SE Dave's Cycle Racer
1984 LeMans III
1985 Sidlow Guzzi
1974 850-T Sport
1969 A-series Ambassador
1996 Triumph Daytona 1200
1996 Triumph Daytona 900
1982 Alfa Romeo GTV6 Balocco SE 3.0

Wildguzzi.com

Re: Re Bore of Griso 1100 engine.
« Reply #63 on: December 17, 2018, 08:40:24 PM »

Online Huzo

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 13202
  • Location: Creswick Australia
Re: Re Bore of Griso 1100 engine.
« Reply #64 on: December 17, 2018, 08:58:45 PM »
So even the 4 valve is barely faster than a 20year old 1100 sport.
I have seen 200 on the Norge @ about 60,000 k and that was confirmed with the GPS on board.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2018, 09:02:36 PM by Huzo »

Offline Murray

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3048
Re: Re Bore of Griso 1100 engine.
« Reply #65 on: December 17, 2018, 08:59:09 PM »

Offline keener

  • Gosling
  • ***
  • Posts: 338
Re: Re Bore of Griso 1100 engine.
« Reply #66 on: December 17, 2018, 09:28:34 PM »
Simple really .......its about the Ride... i can have as much or more fun riding my 1100 Griso as any other bike, even though it does not have the capacity for outright speed as compared to say a R6  or my 1200 Bandit... it doesn't fricken matter  .. ..
« Last Edit: December 17, 2018, 09:37:23 PM by keener »
smile and tremble
1974 Z1 Kawasaki since new
1998 Suzuki 1200 Bandit
2005 Ducati Multistrada 1000s
2007 Guzzi 1100 Griso
2015 Kawasaki Versys 1000

Offline mjptexas

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1034
Re: Re Bore of Griso 1100 engine.
« Reply #67 on: December 17, 2018, 09:37:09 PM »
Back to my question,  How fast would a Guzzi have to go to hand a can of Ass Whoop to a used R6 ,  street legal or not ?
IMHO you won't ever get there with a sreetable Guzzi. Most well cared for 600cc sport bikes can top 150 mph.  One set up for track days will top 160 mph.
Mike

'18 R Nine T Urban GS
'17 Griso
'16 XL1200 Roadster
'15 Monster 821
'14 Cali Custom
'14 Vespa GTS300 Super
'15 Vespa Primavera
'75 CB400F
'76 CB550F

oldbike54

  • Guest
Re: Re Bore of Griso 1100 engine.
« Reply #68 on: December 17, 2018, 09:52:00 PM »
 A stock R6 will run 160 MPH , maybe even a little faster .

 Dusty

Offline Murray

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3048
Re: Re Bore of Griso 1100 engine.
« Reply #69 on: December 17, 2018, 10:27:37 PM »
IMHO you won't ever get there with a sreetable Guzzi. Most well cared for 600cc sport bikes can top 150 mph.  One set up for track days will top 160 mph.

Actually depending on the track the track R6 might only do about 140mph, it will get there in a thumping hurry though.

Offline molly

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1320
Re: Re Bore of Griso 1100 engine.
« Reply #70 on: December 18, 2018, 04:07:01 AM »
Motorcycle Consumer News recorded the top speed of the 2-valve Griso at 129.3 mph (208 kph), not the 112 mph (180 kph) you pulled out of your derriere. The 4-valve went 143.95 mph (231.6 kph).

Moto

129.3 mph, that's good enough for me with only a small screen to hide behind. 120 mph on the UK cart tracks is pretty scary as it is.
 I suppose  what matters is what happens before it get's there. I would happily accept another 10ft/lbs of mid range torque over any top speed increases.
Dave

Lincolnshire, U.K.

Griso 1100

Offline molly

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1320
Re: Re Bore of Griso 1100 engine.
« Reply #71 on: December 18, 2018, 04:42:04 AM »
A stock R6 will run 160 MPH , maybe even a little faster .

 Dusty

For anyone interested this months (UK )Bike magazine has a road test of the new R6 and a article on buying a used Griso 1200 8V .

Basically they say the latest  R6 is so track day focused most people would not enjoy riding it on the road unless they had owned a high performance two stroke.

The article on the 1200 Griso doesn't make comfortable reading for a potential buyer. The guy that wrote it owns a Guzzi shop  specialising in pre-2000 models.
http://www.motoguzzisales.co.uk/
Some of the things he mentions as potential problems I have not heard of before. Here is the list:

Air filter. Small foam strips come loose and get stuck in the throttle bodies.
Battery. Terminals corrode.
Cam Followers. Enough said.
Engine oil. Only use SG 10/60.
Oxygen sensor. Mis-threaded by the factory.
Drive box bearings. Failure on early models.
Clutch judder.  Common but not serious.
Fuelling. Poor factory mapping.
Rough idle in cold weather.
Plug caps. OE caps are poor quality.

The magazine specs include 144mph top speed and a 8/10 rating.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2018, 04:49:01 AM by molly »
Dave

Lincolnshire, U.K.

Griso 1100

pete roper

  • Guest
Re: Re Bore of Griso 1100 engine.
« Reply #72 on: December 18, 2018, 06:11:14 AM »
For anyone interested this months (UK )Bike magazine has a road test of the new R6 and a article on buying a used Griso 1200 8V .

Basically they say the latest  R6 is so track day focused most people would not enjoy riding it on the road unless they had owned a high performance two stroke.

The article on the 1200 Griso doesn't make comfortable reading for a potential buyer. The guy that wrote it owns a Guzzi shop  specialising in pre-2000 models.
http://www.motoguzzisales.co.uk/
Some of the things he mentions as potential problems I have not heard of before. Here is the list:

Air filter. Small foam strips come loose and get stuck in the throttle bodies.
Battery. Terminals corrode.
Cam Followers. Enough said.
Engine oil. Only use SG 10/60.
Oxygen sensor. Mis-threaded by the factory.
Drive box bearings. Failure on early models.
Clutch judder.  Common but not serious.
Fuelling. Poor factory mapping.
Rough idle in cold weather.
Plug caps. OE caps are poor quality.

The magazine specs include 144mph top speed and a 8/10 rating.

A shop that specialises in fossils gives the 'Good Oil' on CARC bikes! Oh my aching sides!

On their list the only relevant criticisms are the flat tappet fiasco, poor mapping and the bevelbox bearings in early models!

Look at the rest of this crap.

The 'Foam Strips', (Whose purpose I've never grasped?) are in the snorkel. For them to get to the throttle bodies they must of been allowed to fall into the airbox while the filter was being changed! Shaved Ape territory!

Battery terminals corrode? Yeah. They do that if you don't put some terminal protectsnt or Vaseline on them. Same as any othe bleeding battery using the same materials and technology.

Oil type is a red herring. Nothing will save flat tappets.

Oxygen sensor mis threaded? They've seen this how often? Did it coincide with the visit of the tooth fairy to the workshop because I've never seen such a problem.

Very early bevelboxes had a shit bearing. There was a recall, from 2007 the problem disappeared.

Clutch 'Judder'? Never had it. There is what i christened the 'Stelvio Groan' on early models but 'Juddering'?

Rough idle in cold weather? Not if it's actually tuned right!

Plug caps are perfectly fine as long as they aren't abused. If you take them off correctly you don't need the factory tool but you have to know how. It's not the caps that are the problem. It's the method of removal.

No mention at all of the really critical issue of lack of grease in both swing arm bearings and shock linkages.

The whole thing is a huge, boiling pit of ignorant, uninformed arse! I break wind not just in their general direction but copiously and lavishly directly at them!

Pete

Offline tris

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 2794
  • Location: United Kingdom
Re: Re Bore of Griso 1100 engine.
« Reply #73 on: December 18, 2018, 07:19:03 AM »
.....Basically they say the latest  R6 is so track day focused most people would not enjoy riding it on the road unless they had owned a high performance two stroke......

That's interesting

A number of years ago I read an article where a magazine took the latest Japanese sports bike of the time and one one of the previous years model which had less stratospheric power numbers but more torque and dressed them up to look the same and let various people ride them.

IIRC everyone preferred the more road "usable" machine

 
2017 V9 Roamer
2005 Breva 1100 (non ABS) "Bruno" - now sold
1995 Cali 1100 - carby   "Dino" -now sold
1993 TW125 "POS" - Resting

Online Huzo

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 13202
  • Location: Creswick Australia
Re: Re Bore of Griso 1100 engine.
« Reply #74 on: December 18, 2018, 01:34:18 PM »
Same here.
I also read a comparo of the R1, GSXR 1000, ZX 10 and CBR 1000 R back when they were at each other's throats.
To summarise, every hard riding journo and ex superbike racer was quickest on the ZX or R1, all were slowest on the Honda.
Most people would have written their cheque for the Suzuki..
Every street rider was fastest on the Honda and without exception were slowest on the ZX 10.
Conclusion..?
If you're a normal bloke, you'll be fastest on the slowest bike....(more or less..)

Offline Murray

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3048
Re: Re Bore of Griso 1100 engine.
« Reply #75 on: December 19, 2018, 03:57:30 PM »
That's interesting

A number of years ago I read an article where a magazine took the latest Japanese sports bike of the time and one one of the previous years model which had less stratospheric power numbers but more torque and dressed them up to look the same and let various people ride them.

IIRC everyone preferred the more road "usable" machine

Mkae no mistake the 600 super sports are the 250 two strokes of the modern age, brillant on song almost awlful off although a hell of lot more flexiable than say a 250 RGV or RS250 and thier ilk. They also don't foul plugs and have a drinking problem having said that with the diverse range of bikes on offer these days there are plently of alternatives of bikes somewhere inbetween without resorting to trying to squeeze more hp out of the empty tube that is the Guzzi two valve motors.

Offline keener

  • Gosling
  • ***
  • Posts: 338
Re: Re Bore of Griso 1100 engine.
« Reply #76 on: December 19, 2018, 08:30:16 PM »






The Griso 1100 is a nice motorcycle ... :bow:
« Last Edit: December 19, 2018, 08:37:37 PM by keener »
smile and tremble
1974 Z1 Kawasaki since new
1998 Suzuki 1200 Bandit
2005 Ducati Multistrada 1000s
2007 Guzzi 1100 Griso
2015 Kawasaki Versys 1000

Online Huzo

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 13202
  • Location: Creswick Australia
Re: Re Bore of Griso 1100 engine.
« Reply #77 on: December 19, 2018, 09:56:36 PM »






The Griso 1100 is a nice motorcycle ... :bow:
Needs more valves...(apparently..)

Offline keener

  • Gosling
  • ***
  • Posts: 338
Re: Re Bore of Griso 1100 engine.
« Reply #78 on: December 19, 2018, 10:27:31 PM »
Needs more valves...(apparently..)



All the bike really needs .....is to be ridden
« Last Edit: December 19, 2018, 10:31:56 PM by keener »
smile and tremble
1974 Z1 Kawasaki since new
1998 Suzuki 1200 Bandit
2005 Ducati Multistrada 1000s
2007 Guzzi 1100 Griso
2015 Kawasaki Versys 1000

pete roper

  • Guest
Re: Re Bore of Griso 1100 engine.
« Reply #79 on: December 20, 2018, 12:43:25 AM »
Needs more valves...(apparently..)

When did anyone say that?

Online Huzo

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 13202
  • Location: Creswick Australia
Re: Re Bore of Griso 1100 engine.
« Reply #80 on: December 20, 2018, 12:52:57 AM »
When did anyone say that?
It's a joke Pete, given that I've had a thrash on Wyno's and recognised the difference.
Although the superiority performance wise of the 8V vs 4V, has been pretty well documented on these pages.

Online Huzo

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 13202
  • Location: Creswick Australia
Re: Re Bore of Griso 1100 engine.
« Reply #81 on: December 20, 2018, 01:03:40 AM »
No, the 8V isn't a lot faster but it will get you there a lot quicker!

Pete
Although this comment did seem at odds with the comment you made after re vitalising my old jigger.
It was to the effect of..
"It certainly goes ok, on a couple of roll on's I didn't really start reeling him in 'till 6,000 rpm."
On mine, that's 180 k's

Offline Muzz

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 7055
  • On the backside of the planet.
  • Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Re: Re Bore of Griso 1100 engine.
« Reply #82 on: December 20, 2018, 01:34:16 AM »

The whole thing is a huge, boiling pit of ignorant, uninformed arse! I break wind not just in their general direction but copiously and lavishly directly at them!

Pete

Is that why our weather has been crap here this week (and most of the preceding ones). :undecided:
Muzz. Cristchurch, New Zealand
03 Breva

Life is just a bowl of Allbran
Ya wake up in the morning and it's there

Offline JohninVT

  • Gaggle Mentor
  • ****
  • Posts: 783
Re: Re Bore of Griso 1100 engine.
« Reply #83 on: December 20, 2018, 03:00:00 AM »
I guess I missed where the OP said he wanted his Griso to be faster than a R6.  The way I read his posts, he just enjoys a project.  The Griso happens to be what he's fiddling with.  I had a lot of fun messing with my 1200 Sport and eventually saw a GPS verified 138mph top end.  Is that fast?  Not really.  It is for a Guzzi though.  It's also fast if you have a get-off and are bouncing down the road.  Anyway, why second guess the OP?  It's like you guys are criticizing him for liking a particular flavor of ice cream.  Not everyone has to like vanilla and if he prefers pistachio let him.  You should be thanking him.  Anyone interested in tweaking their Guzzi should be happy for this thread.  He's going step by step and testing each modification on a dyno.  Not only that, he's testing it on the same dyno each time.  He's doing this right.  He's documenting it the most scientific way you can and he's sharing the information freely.  He's like the anti-Todd Eagan.  He's not hitting you up for money and he's not bullshitting anyone.       

Offline Murray

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3048
Re: Re Bore of Griso 1100 engine.
« Reply #84 on: December 20, 2018, 03:41:48 AM »
I guess I missed where the OP said he wanted his Griso to be faster than a R6.  The way I read his posts, he just enjoys a project.

The op suggested no such thing quiet sensible, there were a number of other replies that suggested there was another 30hp freely avaliable from the 1100 sport, then someone asked what would it take to get an 1100 motor faster than an R6 and other than pushing out of a C130 at a great hieght the answer is quiet a bit and you might not get there. I think a number of people here haven't gone near a modern sports bike in the last 10-15 years and are not across the quantum leap in performance that has occoured in that time. Yes back in the day the 1100 sport was vaguely around the equivalent sports bikes of the era sadly nothing Guzzi has made since has really been in the hunt even with the step up the CRAC series bikes provided. I'm currently debating weather to put mine on classic/club registration next year as it is over 25years old its a fun old thing but its performance in a straight line is positively pedestrian, I don't take it on group rides anymore.

Offline Tusayan

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1788
Re: Re Bore of Griso 1100 engine.
« Reply #85 on: December 20, 2018, 03:59:47 AM »
I think a number of people here haven't gone near a modern sports bike in the last 10-15 years and are not across the quantum leap in performance that has occoured in that time.

I think that endlessly beating that drum is not going to make late model sport bikes any more appealing for those of us who have tried them and find them completely unappealing.

Offline molly

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1320
Re: Re Bore of Griso 1100 engine.
« Reply #86 on: December 20, 2018, 04:17:43 AM »
I just remembered watching this vid a few years ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1kI_9caRz4
Dave

Lincolnshire, U.K.

Griso 1100

pete roper

  • Guest
Re: Re Bore of Griso 1100 engine.
« Reply #87 on: December 20, 2018, 05:46:37 AM »
I guess I missed where the OP said he wanted his Griso to be faster than a R6.  The way I read his posts, he just enjoys a project.  The Griso happens to be what he's fiddling with.  I had a lot of fun messing with my 1200 Sport and eventually saw a GPS verified 138mph top end.  Is that fast?  Not really.  It is for a Guzzi though.  It's also fast if you have a get-off and are bouncing down the road.  Anyway, why second guess the OP?  It's like you guys are criticizing him for liking a particular flavor of ice cream.  Not everyone has to like vanilla and if he prefers pistachio let him.  You should be thanking him.  Anyone interested in tweaking their Guzzi should be happy for this thread.  He's going step by step and testing each modification on a dyno.  Not only that, he's testing it on the same dyno each time.  He's doing this right.  He's documenting it the most scientific way you can and he's sharing the information freely.  He's like the anti-Todd Eagan.  He's not hitting you up for money and he's not bullshitting anyone.     

Agreed, the R6 thing is a red herring but I did like the description of trying to squeeze toothpaste out of an empty tube.

(Do note I've recently bought another 2V Tonti. I'm not averse to them and they are fun to warm up.)

Pete

Offline 5154guzzi

  • Gosling
  • ***
  • Posts: 349
    • Team Subtle Crowbar
Re: Re Bore of Griso 1100 engine.
« Reply #88 on: December 20, 2018, 10:38:28 AM »
  I don't think anyone else is under the impression that the OP wanted wants his Griso to be faster than an R6.  I appreciate what he`s doing and wrote there`s some more power available.  Another poster or two writes that these engines are clapped out as is and that  "nothing could be done to make any Guzzi that would make it faster than a $4k R6 " , totally different subject , and an untrue statement.  There are Guzzis that have been timed in the 160`s, 170`s and even over 180 mph.

  I enjoyed the snot out of my Griso 1100 ,  it had about perfect balance and was one of the easiest and fun Guzzis ever imho.   

Offline Lannis

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 26507
  • Location: Central Virginia
Re: Re Bore of Griso 1100 engine.
« Reply #89 on: December 20, 2018, 03:14:53 PM »
  I don't think anyone else is under the impression that the OP wanted wants his Griso to be faster than an R6.  I appreciate what he`s doing and wrote there`s some more power available.  Another poster or two writes that these engines are clapped out as is and that  "nothing could be done to make any Guzzi that would make it faster than a $4k R6 " , totally different subject , and an untrue statement.  There are Guzzis that have been timed in the 160`s, 170`s and even over 180 mph.

  I enjoyed the snot out of my Griso 1100 ,  it had about perfect balance and was one of the easiest and fun Guzzis ever imho.

 :thumb:

Given the history and current status of "Hop Up" projects, and racing projects, and racing clubs around the world, I don't understand the

"If you want to go faster, buy a faster bike"

responses.

A guy will spend $5000 to put a Horrocks supercharger on an MG-TC, which adds about 7 HP and raises the top speed of the little car to about 85 MPH from the stock 70 MPH.   He already knows that he could go faster by buying a Nissan Versa, but that's hardly the point, is it?

A guy wants to go faster on the flat track, so he punches his 650 BSA out to 750 ccs, ports and polishes the heads, and is STILL going 3/4 the speed of a Yamaha TZ750.  Does that mean he's just dumb, and he should buy something faster?

A guy enjoys riding with his buddies, but wants a bit more "punch" on the road, so he puts 1000 cc cylinders on his 850 Eldorado.   Would you tell him "That's no good, it's STILL not as fast as a Centauro, why don't you just cash the Eldo in and use the money to buy a Centauro and go WAY faster ... " ?

Sometimes it's not about just going fast - you can't outfast everyone, there's always one guy with more money and testosterone than you.   Sometimes it's about having the satisfaction of getting the most out of what you've got, and you can't make that decision with just a calculator ....

Lannis
"Hard pounding, this, gentlemen; let's see who pounds the longest".

 

Quad Lock - The best GPS / phone mount system for your motorcycles, no damage to your cameras!!
Get a Wildguzzi discount of 10% off your order!
http://quadlock.refr.cc/luapmckeever
Advertise Here