Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Kiwi_Roy on June 09, 2021, 05:45:00 AM
-
I have always fancied a convert ever since I first saw one so much so that I converted (there's that word again) a perfectly good Griso that has been sitting for a year into a handful of shekels so I can buy one. Have I completely lost my marbles or should I put the blame squarely on my friend JayDee24ca, he described his as a Magic Carpet Ride, I don't think he penned the phrase but he put it to good use against me, I followed John for a couple of days on a camping trip and was intrigued by how effortlessly his negotiated steep hills barely changing exhaust note. Now really JayDee should have offered to ride my puny V7 III so I could try out his carpet and I'm sure he would have had I asked, but no he just fed into my desire by describing how reliable his Converts have been.
I kind of imagine a Convert to be something between an old loop and an EV.
I have never ridden a Convert but I sent a cheque off sight unseen to a Gentleman on Vancouver Island who has a 76 model.
Now because of - we are not really supposed to travel to the Island at this time, that and the fact we are expecting house guests and my wife will kill me if I try and sneak off so I will have to be patient like a kid waiting for Santa.
In the mean time I will be following TwoDog's thread trying to learn as much as I can about my next Italian mistress.
I see from the pictures that the Converts come without a tachometer, is that an oversight, all my other Guzzi's had one.
Can someone point me to a manual I can download to learn about the proper feeding and care of one of these alien creatures.
Anything I should ask the present owner while I am waiting to take delivery?
-
I've had 3 Converts. I don't think I'd say they were "magic carpet rides" but rather the most interesting but boring 1000cc scooter you ever ridden. Practicality wise as a commuter/grocery getter they are great. Spirited riding boooooooooooooooooo ring!
-
I've had 3 Converts. I don't think I'd say they were "magic carpet rides" but rather the most interesting but boring 1000cc scooter you ever ridden. Practicality wise as a commuter/grocery getter they are great. Spirited riding boooooooooooooooooo ring!
It took you 3 to realize that, I guess you are a slow learner eh!
-
Congrats KR, I bought my 1st Guzzi over 10 years ago and it was a 76 convert that had not run in over 15 years, got it for a winter project since I was a seasonal worker and actually got it going and rode it in the summer and then sold it for the next project, I'm no mechanic and I'm still learning Guzzi, but I always told the wife if one popped up close enough I was going to jump on it, I think she is better with the purchase now, ride it for what it is and it will become obvious :boozing:
-
A tach is really pointless since you don't need to know when to shift.
And you don't need to clutch so left hand doesn't have much to do.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Guzzi/i-Z834Ntm/1/2fc3d7ea/S/PICT0030-S.jpg) (https://fotoguzzi.smugmug.com/Guzzi/i-Z834Ntm/A)
-
Owner's manual: https://www.thisoldtractor.com/mg_manuals/owners_manual_v1000-i-convert_1975-06_en.pdf
Shop manual: https://www.thisoldtractor.com/mg_manuals/workshop_manual_convert.pdf
One thing you'll want to know/figure out: light or heavy flywheel? I'd also want to check the condition of the hex piece that drives the ATF pump off of the camshaft. If it still has the early pump coupling, an upgrade to the later pump is not a bad idea.
If the ATF hoses are original, you'll want to replace those. Same with the brake hoses, breather hoses and oil line to the heads.
-
You had to scratch that itch, didn’t you?
Grounds…clean, scrape, slather
Left hand queens wave at stoplights while stopped and pulling away from your Harley friends
-
Roy, dont worry you did not make a mistake, once you get used to the Convert you will wonder how you did without one. :thumb: DonG
-
I'd also want to check the condition of the hex piece that drives the ATF pump off of the camshaft. If it still has the early pump coupling, an upgrade to the later pump is not a bad idea.
While you're in there, you might want to check the timing chain and replace the chain tensioner.
Rich A
-
So, you might have one that RoadKill owned? Wouldn't that be weird.
-
So, you might have one that RoadKill owned? Wouldn't that be weird.
How do you figure that, it's a long way from Alaska to Vancouver Island, not that I would mind one of Dave's cast offs he was a pretty competent mechanic IMHO.
He went up in my estimation when he told me the local cop clocked him at 70 MPH in reverse on the local airstrip, I met him at the National in John Day
Update,
I spoke to the present owner today, he's had it a year, said it came from Saltspring Island
-
I thought he retired from AK to that Island, I met him on tour here in GA. Good time.
-
Congratulations Roy! You are going to love it, I know! I use the G5 manual for most of the tech info. and Charles has pointed you to the other sources, and pointed out the hardware you need to check. As to a tach, as has been said, it is rather redundant on the Vert. But, just to be a contrarian, and to see what sort of revs the Vert makes at speeds compared to my G5 at the same speed, I spent the princely sum of 35 bucks and bought a digital chinese wrap-around- the-plug-wire tachometer a month or so ago, and mounted it with two sided tape to the inside of the fairing. It works just great, and satisfied my curiosity as to the G5 comparison. But it is definitly not something needed.
JD
-
I just have a couple of pictures, what can you tell me from these?
Showing only 13,250 miles on the odometer, 2nd time around perhaps, how would you know?
Flywheel appears to be steel
Would that be an aftermarket screen, I was expecting something like a windjammer.
Bags?
Owner thinks it might have original been light blue.
Update June 13,
(https://i.ibb.co/CP95RQn/image2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jJwvnDL)
(https://i.ibb.co/rtX2Ftm/image0.jpg) (https://ibb.co/N3G2t3s)
-
I just have a couple of pictures, what can you tell me from these?
Showing only 13,250 miles on the odometer, 2nd time around perhaps, how would you know?
Flywheel appears to be steel
Would that be an aftermarket screen, I was expecting something like a windjammer.
Bags?
Owner thinks it might have original been light blue.
https://ibb.co/N3G2t3s
https://ibb.co/jJwvnDL
Looks better than rust!
Someone’s been loving it, that’s for sure.. i see stock boxes..check for the spacer to flow air behind the alt cover…the yellow 3 wire inside is usually fried to death in there but easily replaced as a separate harness. Just what pops to my mind
If they can let the seller walk you thru their routine. LED bulbs? Saves your butt on a vert
-
Roy, that's a nice looking bike. It has definitely had a paint job, so the original colour may indeed have been the light blue/grey of the model year. Again, I would turf the metal alternator cover and use a plastic one with a vent spacer behind it. I had a chromed cover on my 76 years ago, and I basically cooked the electrics behind it. I may have a spare you can have if you like, not sure about a spacer though.
Being a Canadian bike, I would not be surprised to see such low mileage. You have likely done a leak down test and maybe a compression test, so that may tell you what's what as far as use goes. It looks super clean, even the exhaust looks nice and bright. The seat looks to have lots of loft; has it been restuffed and recovered? If it is original, that would be another clue as to its true mileage.
JD
-
Check, John, thanks for the re-assuring words, I have yet to see the bike in the flesh, I have wanted a Convert for quite a while so I didn't hesitate to send off a deposit.
-
Best of luck with your new baby Roy :grin: :thumb:
-
Update June 13,
(https://i.ibb.co/CP95RQn/image2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jJwvnDL)
(https://i.ibb.co/rtX2Ftm/image0.jpg) (https://ibb.co/N3G2t3s)
The owner kindly took some more pictures
(https://i.ibb.co/N3vyWPr/image6.jpg) (https://ibb.co/FWrD8MX)
(https://i.ibb.co/hB3NpyN/image14.jpg) (https://ibb.co/By0J8tJ)
(https://i.ibb.co/B43dDtZ/image13.jpg) (https://ibb.co/VH9rytS)
(https://i.ibb.co/f8cvm1f/image12.jpg) (https://ibb.co/n3WChg9)
(https://i.ibb.co/jwSqR4R/image11.jpg) (https://ibb.co/09x1tJt)
(https://i.ibb.co/Ct43Yft/image9.jpg) (https://ibb.co/X46rKq4)
(https://i.ibb.co/4Sm5gzm/image8.jpg) (https://ibb.co/xgCR8WC)
So now I have a better idea what i'm buying :thumb:
-
Tomasselli throttle. No drips or leaks. Its all good. :grin:
-
Good luck. Great bike. All terrain vehicles.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tqGOdj5KjbY&t=2s (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tqGOdj5KjbY&t=2s)
Nick
-
I'm off to look at the old girl this morning, catching the ferry over.
There's been no mention of the dreaded chrome bores so I assume the Convert has something different, what should I expect to find?
Looking in the flywheel inspection hole what will I want to see?
-
I'm off to look at the old girl this morning, catching the ferry over.
There's been no mention of the dreaded chrome bores so I assume the Convert has something different, what should I expect to find?
Looking in the flywheel inspection hole what will I want to see?
The convert should have iron liners. As for the flywheel, it shouldn't be the stamped item. I don't have any pictures of how it should look unfortunately.
EDIT: this topic has some pictures of the different flywheels, as I understand, the narrow edge (stamped version) is crack-prone. https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=110989.0
-
KR - Converts didn’t have chrome bores so no worries
Mark
-
I traveled to the island and picked up the old girl, she is a little rough with rust spots on the bright ware fittings but no more than you would expect from a bike living near salt water, a compression test showed 170 psi on both sides and looking in the inspection hole showed a steel flywheel with the ring gear teeth as part of the wheel. Never having ridden a Convert before, in high ratio it seems to do a lot of reving without much action but before you know it you are sailing along at 60 MPH and the engine is just purring along. I traveled down the island from Lantzville to Duke Point to catch the ferry back to Tswassen so I didn't have to face the madness of North Vancouver traffic on an unfamiliar bike. The area of New Westminster where I live is quite hilly, I will certainly be using low ratio around here.
In gear at a traffic light it requires firm footing or a touch of brake to stop edging forward, I hope that is normal.
The hoses obviously haven't been changed recently and after sitting for two hours on the ferry there was a little puddle (about 3") under the gearbox, I guess that means some seal is weeping, that will have to wait a while.
-
Had mine for 3 years now, been super reliable. Mine had a tach the only thing that doesn't work on it but as described not needed really. I love it!
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-DNB3qLr/0/L/i-DNB3qLr-L.jpg) (https://curtedwards.smugmug.com/1984-Moto-Guzzi-California-II-Convert/i-DNB3qLr/A)
-
The puddle/drip is ATF right?
If you go in deep you can change out 3 o rings that tend to flatten and dry out, they let the ATF and pressure out. New o rings and you'll have more power to the torque converter and a little better acceleration. Gotta split the tranny off the block to do it an make sure you re assemble with all the passages in line, it can go back together wrong and fluid won't flow.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Foto/i-JNM2Qwq/1/aca0f683/S/2018060618305715-IMG_3776-S.jpg) (https://fotoguzzi.smugmug.com/Foto/i-JNM2Qwq/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Foto/i-RsPzCrv/0/2435058b/M/IMG_2402-M.jpg) (https://fotoguzzi.smugmug.com/Foto/i-RsPzCrv/A)(https://photos.smugmug.com/Foto/i-FWFbhDq/0/db8db280/S/IMG_2401-S.jpg) (https://fotoguzzi.smugmug.com/Foto/i-FWFbhDq/A)
-
Yup. Takes about twice as much turn on the throttle to accelerate like anything near what you’ve been used to on a geared bike. Normal
Two feet just barely holds it back depending on idle speed. One finger on the front brake should do it. Normal
Puddle? Not so good. A stuck check ball valve combined w a completely 3 quart full sump might be it. I learned to leave the oil at 2 1/2 quarts because it spit/burned/swallowed/got rid/ who knows what …off a 1/2 quart and sits halfway on the stick marks after that for 3k miles
I’ve never hesitated to use the crop in low range. It’s a Guzzi. It gets better the more you beat on it
I’m liking the shield if it works well..looks slippery
Good luck!
I just saw foto explain a leak coming from the torque converter..is it leaking
A) engine oil
B) trans fluid
C) gear oil from the 2 speed box
In all 3 cases, you know where you have to go..
Mine was a rear main..and the tc.
Left it for winter..
-
Foto / Chuck,
Thanks for the information.
Are those 3 part numbers what I need? MG Cycle or Harpers?
Where does one order new hoses or is that something I can make up.
I notice the fuel hoses are needing replacement also.
Is it possible to remove the transmission without pulling the engine?
Right, I will hold that job for a winter project.
-
Foto / Chuck,
Thanks for the information.
Are those 3 part numbers what I need? MG Cycle or Harpers?
Where does one order new hoses or is that something I can make up.
You can get the hoses from McMaster Carr. Can't remember the specs, but there have been several threads re the hoses.
Rich A
-
Foto / Chuck,
Thanks for the information.
Are those 3 part numbers what I need? MG Cycle or Harpers?
Where does one order new hoses or is that something I can make up.
I notice the fuel hoses are needing replacement also.
Is it possible to remove the transmission without pulling the engine?
Right, I will hold that job for a winter project.
Cut the crimps from the original lines, reuse the fittings, add new hose and clamps:
https://www.thisoldtractor.com/moto_guzzi_tonti_i-convert_replacement_oil_lines.html
Like every other Tonti, one needs to "crab" the frame in order to remove the transmission.
-
I have had my Convert going on 2 years now, bought a generally well cared for but sitting 76 back in March 2020, before the insanity ensued, and did a refresh while I convalesced (the plan) and pandemic blaa blaa (forced).
It is definitely unique, NOT sporting, and the first motorcycle that clearly says SLOW DOWN and enjoy. The Tonti Frame is rigid, the chassis responsive, the brakes decent, but it is an open road slow is smooth smooth is fast kind of bike.
I've very much enjoyed mine, and look forward to some long trips, but it is NO replacement for a GRiSO or 1200 Sport. Adjust your expectations and you will fall in love.....
Getting ready to disassemble the bodywork and send for paint, and hope to add a sidecar long term.
(https://i.ibb.co/5T2f4s9/IMG-20210424-170850804-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/5T2f4s9)
-
I traveled to the island and picked up the old girl, she is a little rough with rust spots on the bright ware fittings but no more than you would expect from a bike living near salt water, a compression test showed 170 psi on both sides and looking in the inspection hole showed a steel flywheel with the ring gear teeth as part of the wheel. Never having ridden a Convert before, in high ratio it seems to do a lot of reving without much action but before you know it you are sailing along at 60 MPH and the engine is just purring along. I traveled down the island from Lantzville to Duke Point to catch the ferry back to Tswassen so I didn't have to face the madness of North Vancouver traffic on an unfamiliar bike. The area of New Westminster where I live is quite hilly, I will certainly be using low ratio around here.
In gear at a traffic light it requires firm footing or a touch of brake to stop edging forward, I hope that is normal.
The hoses obviously haven't been changed recently and after sitting for two hours on the ferry there was a little puddle (about 3") under the gearbox, I guess that means some seal is weeping, that will have to wait a while.
Mine mostly sat the 10 years before I acquired, but after the first few rides, the dripping stopped. Just changed out the tires and put Pirelli RT 66's, they are sublime.
-
Well, that's different Roy. :thumb:
I am sure you will sort any bugs out and have yourself a rather unique tourer. Looking forward to hear how you like it once you put a few miles on it.
-
I'm still trying to figure out what milage the bike has, the speedo says 13,000 odd miles but of course the age says 113,000
The front tire is an Avon, pretty much worn out, I will get someone to read the date code on it
The back one has lots of tread but that has obviously been replaced at some time.
Only a few minor changes in the wiring loom, under the dash seemed fairly stock, speedo's never been apart.
What tires did the bike come with?
What other clues can I look for?
-
Roy, check the front brake pad wear and note the manufacture, if possible.
The V65 I resurrected showed little wear at 18,000 miles.
Also when was it last licensed? My V65 roller hadn't been licensed since 2010.
Mark
-
I doubt it has 113,000 miles. It would look a lot more worn out.
-
I think the condition of the paintwork on the bags was throwing me off, they may have been from a different bike. I pulled them off, they were held on by a mix of bolts and took it to the Sunday coffee meet, the general consensus from the condition of the paintwork is the odometer may be correct.
The oil leaks seem to have dissipated at least a piece of cardboard shows zero spots cooling down from hot.
The date code on the front Avon Roadrider 0287 (worn out) shows late 87 perhaps it was the first tire change.
The rear tire has the date code 4608.
I'm really starting to enjoy the Convert experience, now I can visit the drive-thru and ride off holding my coffee lol.
-
If you are gonna keep the bike, start looking for a seal/gasket kit for a Convert. Also get yourself a dial indicator. Look at ordering an upgraded alternator and replace as many light as possible with leds. The charging system has a hard time keeping up on the Convert. Keep one eye open for newer Convert parts bikes to cannabalize. Enjoy.
-
If you are gonna keep the bike, start looking for a seal/gasket kit for a Convert. Also get yourself a dial indicator. Look at ordering an upgraded alternator and replace as many light as possible with leds. The charging system has a hard time keeping up on the Convert. Keep one eye open for newer Convert parts bikes to cannabalize. Enjoy.
I've never seen a complete seal kit available for the Convert - engine and rear drive, yes, but not the transmission.
IMO, a higher output alternator isn't really needed if one goes all LEDs (particularly the headlight and taillight), installs a solid-state voltage regulator and run a big battery such as the ETX30L. Maybe if you're going to run heated gear, but otherwise I don't find it necessary, even with my (LED) driving lights on.
-
If you are gonna keep the bike, start looking for a seal/gasket kit for a Convert. Also get yourself a dial indicator. Look at ordering an upgraded alternator and replace as many light as possible with leds. The charging system has a hard time keeping up on the Convert. Keep one eye open for newer Convert parts bikes to cannabalize. Enjoy.
you don't really need a dial indicator unless your pulling the TC off the flywheel. All the o-ring replacements are downstream from the torq converter.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/EVert-project/i-9t32cbZ/0/03e74119/S/DSCN1701-S.jpg) (https://fotoguzzi.smugmug.com/EVert-project/i-9t32cbZ/A)
-
you don't really need a dial indicator unless your pulling the TC off the flywheel. All the o-ring replacements are downstream from the torq converter.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/EVert-project/i-9t32cbZ/0/03e74119/S/DSCN1701-S.jpg) (https://fotoguzzi.smugmug.com/EVert-project/i-9t32cbZ/A)
Like when doing a rear main seal? :wink:
-
I've never seen a complete seal kit available for the Convert - engine and rear drive, yes, but not the transmission.
Yeah, it's been years since I messed with one. SO long ago, I think Greg Field sold me a kit from Moto Intl. :grin: It might have been a kit they put together after ordering parts independently, IDK.
-
If you are gonna keep the bike, start looking for a seal/gasket kit for a Convert. Also get yourself a dial indicator. Look at ordering an upgraded alternator and replace as many light as possible with leds. The charging system has a hard time keeping up on the Convert. Keep one eye open for newer Convert parts bikes to cannabalize. Enjoy.
Ive seen that come up a few times about the charging system on these. Did the convert's use a different system then the other Guzzi's of the era?
-
I have to chime in here since I've owned a few of these myself, currently the Cal 2 Auto version.
1. Congrats! You'll either learn to love it or learn that you don't! Give it time, like others, I'd never sell mine, but you'll need another 5-sp in the stable to make you appreciate both.
2. Brakes, carbs, cables, air filters, alternator, etc, all that non-drive stuff is the same as any other Tonti so the same maintenance routines apply. Charging system has been suspected of suffering from too-low revs because the engine is operating very often at low revs, especially around town.
3. Don't over-think the o-rings in the tranny unless you sense that the drive system is "slipping". You'll know it. Not saying that the internal tranny o-rings wouldn't benefit from changing, but that's a major PIA that might sour you on the experience, and any slipping problems you encounter may likely be due to different reasons (there are several). Mine has 50k on the clock, operating on original tranny o-rings.
4. BE VERY MINDFUL OF YOUR FLYWHEEL. There is mucho documentation of them shearing @ the mounting flange to the crankshaft, mine failed at 70 mph and 17k miles. But I met a rider at last weekend's Nat'l rally who had 35k on his, metal flywheel, and he was sure it was original. If you pull it apart to reinforce/swap it out, there are several options, and maybe then you should probably do the tranny o-rings.
5. Dave Richardson claims in Guzziology that every Convert he's seen has failed the ATF drive pump around 20K miles. I think he blames it on improper heat-treating of the female drive portion, but in (2) of mine, BOTH failed at right around that 20k mile mark, and it was the 6mm (6.3?) male hex-drive piece that rounded off. You merely have to pull the front timing cover off to access the ATF pump. One time, I replaced the drive hex but did not replace the large o-ring that seals the ATF pump assembly to the timing cover. This o-ring leaked and caused drive slippage. I was ALMOST ready to pull the tranny, but thought I'd do this one first, and that was the problem.
6. If, at a stop, you DON'T need to use the brake or both feet to hold it in place, suspect slippage. Or if it doesn't respond smartly or quickly (sluggish is OK) when you roll the throttle on from a stop, it's slipping. You'll know it.
7. Some people have advised against shifting while in motion, and I am leery of this, but I still do it under ~35 mph. Mostly just leave it in High, unless under-50 mph hilly terrain. YMMV.
8. Your bars do not look stock, but if set up to you liking, it IS a Magic Carpet down the highway! Around town, too. You'll get an appreciation as to how much workload goes into (continually) shifting a 5-sp.
-
Ive seen that come up a few times about the charging system on these. Did the convert's use a different system then the other Guzzi's of the era?
No, same system. But, unlike a Guzzi with 5 spd., the Convert engine isn't always running at a speed that will have the alternator at peak output and the battery charged. Especially in town or on back roads, the engine idles along or nearly so.
-
4. BE VERY MINDFUL OF YOUR FLYWHEEL. There is mucho documentation of them shearing @ the mounting flange to the crankshaft, mine failed at 70 mph and 17k miles. But I met a rider at last weekend's Nat'l rally who had 35k on his, metal flywheel, and he was sure it was original. If you pull it apart to reinforce/swap it out, there are several options, and maybe then you should probably do the tranny o-rings.
5. Dave Richardson claims in Guzziology that every Convert he's seen has failed the ATF drive pump around 20K miles. I think he blames it on improper heat-treating of the female drive portion, but in (2) of mine, BOTH failed at right around that 20k mile mark, and it was the 6mm (6.3?) male hex-drive piece that rounded off. You merely have to pull the front timing cover off to access the ATF pump. One time, I replaced the drive hex but did not replace the large o-ring that seals the ATF pump assembly to the timing cover. This o-ring leaked and caused drive slippage. I was ALMOST ready to pull the tranny, but thought I'd do this one first, and that was the problem.
6. If, at a stop, you DON'T need to use the brake or both feet to hold it in place, suspect slippage. Or if it doesn't respond smartly or quickly (sluggish is OK) when you roll the throttle on from a stop, it's slipping. You'll know it.
7. Some people have advised against shifting while in motion, and I am leery of this, but I still do it under ~35 mph. Mostly just leave it in High, unless under-50 mph hilly terrain. YMMV.
8. Your bars do not look stock, but if set up to you liking, it IS a Magic Carpet down the highway! Around town, too. You'll get an appreciation as to how much workload goes into (continually) shifting a 5-sp.
4. Buy a heavy flywheel and put it on a shelf near the bike. This will ensure the original doesn't fail. :grin:
5. Yes, my hex piece rounded off at ~ 20k miles. The original is 6 mm. The pump coupling (part the hex piece fits into) on early Converts only has an 8 mm deep "socket", later ones are ~ 12 mm deep. I upgraded to the later coupling, but a 6 mm hex piece was still a sloppy fit in both the coupling and camshaft. 1/4"/6.3 mm was too large, so I had a local machinist surface grind 6.3 mm down to 6.2 mm which was a snug fit in both. Normally when that o-ring leaks, ATF mixes with the engine oil too.
6. My idle speed is set low enough that I do not need to hold the brakes or to keep it from rolling with my feet.
7. I've opened up at least 6 Convert transmissions and the majority have had rounded off shift dogs. This tell me that shifting on the fly is not such a good idea...