Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Andy B on November 10, 2016, 03:05:50 PM
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Hi guys,
After reading the 'more participation' thread, i felt a little guilty of lack thereof, so thought i'd post up my current Guzzi project.... Always been more of a lurker, absorbing any info, rather than a poster, since I don't feel I know an awful lot about guzzi's other than the look of one does me just right :grin: but I do like to tinker, and i do like to photo my progress along the way.... I'm no motorbike mechanic (I am a car mechanic so at least I know my way around a set of spanners), and I the fanciest piece of kit I have is a mig welder unfortunately (still dreaming of a lathe one day)...
First Guzzi was a couple of years back on a v50 mk3 but after finishing it I couldn't help but think it was a little on the small side for me... (and the straight cut box was somewhat annoying at higher speeds) so ended up selling it just short of a year of riding it after it was finished...
started out as
(https://s6.postimg.org/w2hg1v6sd/v501.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/w2hg1v6sd/)
something like this in the middle.... (the v50 is now the reason i'm fluent in wiring diagrams :grin: )
(https://s6.postimg.org/4geoh6nfh/v502.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/4geoh6nfh/)
and finished up as...
(https://s6.postimg.org/5jyst582l/v503.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/5jyst582l/)
Once the Guzzi was done, sorted out the girlfriends Ducati... (she really enjoyed telling people how she had a bigger bike than me since I was the one who pushed her into a bike licence in the first place...)
Another tatty example when we bought her....
(https://s6.postimg.org/pm8hbry8t/duc1.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/pm8hbry8t/)
another mid-tidy up shot....
(https://s6.postimg.org/8a84qc4rh/duc2.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/8a84qc4rh/)
she ended up looking quite smart :)
(https://s6.postimg.org/jex3bm2hp/duc3.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/jex3bm2hp/)
AND NOW.... since the v50's gone, i needed a new Guzzi.... and since I appear to have sadomasochistic tendencies, i opted for another tatty bike to 'do up over winter' type of idea..... so I ended up with this shining example.....
(https://s6.postimg.org/nxogx6o4d/image.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/nxogx6o4d/)
1997 cali 1100i with 45000 miles on the clock... cost me £1700, which seemed pretty cheap at the time.... she was a little tatty, which didn't bother me... and she was bigger than the 50.. Now, im only 31... and whilst I feel bloody old sometimes, i'm convincing myself I'm not ready for a cruiser bike just yet... I fell in love with the new v7 when I first saw it at the Sydney motorcycle show a few years back when I was travelling, but they're a little out of budget, and I'd prefer a big block, and so after finding out the cali shares the same frame I thought i'd just dive into one....
(https://s6.postimg.org/dc4ll6hst/02.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/dc4ll6hst/)
The plan was similar to the Ducati - Ride it for the rest of the season and then when the weather gets bad enough, that's when the re-build would start... maybe a little tidying up one the way...
rear wheel first since I needed a new tyre...
(https://s6.postimg.org/vhhjz8hb1/04.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/vhhjz8hb1/)
Shocks since they were easy to remove
(https://s6.postimg.org/9qlr58ucd/21.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/9qlr58ucd/)
and heck, whilst im at it i'll do the swing arm too.... and realise it might be a little tattier than I first thought...
(https://s6.postimg.org/ht1jxllel/image.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/ht1jxllel/)
looked better for it anyway..
(https://s6.postimg.org/wc95idvh9/25.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/wc95idvh9/)
Got hold of an old Norton Commando front fender too.... stock one was far too bulky for my taste (and a little rotten..)
(https://s6.postimg.org/5kknv0331/34.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/5kknv0331/)
and the commando fender gave it a little more of a classic look....
(https://s6.postimg.org/c7l3teowt/39.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/c7l3teowt/)
Left it like that for a while whilst I enjoyed the rest of the season, I wanted to try and get as many miles as possible so rode it every chance I could, dragging my other half out to enjoy her Duc as well ;)
(https://s6.postimg.org/59ra9stgd/rideout.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/59ra9stgd/)
did the Distinguished Gentleman's Ride as her final ride out as a proper Cali, and then the MOT was up and the proper work could start :)
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When I started the v50 build, I always thought about putting a v7 tank on it.... I still had the idea in my head for this build too... so managed to find a new v7 II metal tank, and a seat to match....
(https://s6.postimg.org/qysshcbrx/42.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/qysshcbrx/)
After asking on here a while back, i splashed out and got a fuel pump for it too..... and after reading a few threads about bikes cutting out, and fuelling problems with the fuel filter, for the sake of 13 quid, a pre-emptive upgrade was made
(https://s6.postimg.org/f4bwlpna5/59.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/f4bwlpna5/) :grin:
and that little unit replaces all this....
(https://s6.postimg.org/l7th5mdjx/61.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/l7th5mdjx/)
had to make a monza cap to fit the tank since I couldn't find a stock one (wasn't even going to try getting a new one....)
(https://s6.postimg.org/r8amp82e5/58.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/r8amp82e5/)
so now the bike stands in the garage stripped slowly getting cleaned up, wiring tidied, and put back together...
(https://s6.postimg.org/i28vfeuxp/62.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/i28vfeuxp/)
got a few things made, hopefully to go back on her at the weekend, so hopefully have a bit more progress to show by then... fkeeping my fingers crossed for getting her back on the road by march :azn:
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Nice! The frame is different on the new V7.. still a Tonti design tho.
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Nice work. :thumb: aka "atta boy"!
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Thanks for posting. You have some real talent in restoration/modification. :thumb:
Great job on the V50. Can't wait to see how the Cali looks when finished. :bike-037:
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thanks guys... been enjoying the time i get on her so far... haven't reached the stage of 'why did I start this thing' like I got with the v50 - although that was mainly wring issues from bodges made by previous owners.... thankfully this has had less time on the earth to acquire such 'touches'...
Nice! The frame is different on the new V7.. still a Tonti design tho.
I believe the frame on the v50 is almost the same as the new v7 - there came my idea of putting a v7 tank on the v50 when i had it, just never got around to it.... when I sold the v50, the bloke who bought it couldn't collect for 3 weeks so I had the two Guzzi's side by side so i could compare a few things.... still wishing over a v7, I decided the tank shouldn't be too hard to fit to a Tonti frame :wink:
only thing was the airbox was in the way.... I wanted to try and keep it if possible, so have managed to modify it... if it turns out it doesn't work too well, i'll just rip it out and fit pod filters... but hopefully it works ok...
(https://s6.postimg.org/qb05x27fh/90.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/qb05x27fh/)
Wanted to make a battery box to fit behind the Airbox too. I'm not going for a cafe racer look with the usual hollow triangle in the frame... and with all the EFI gubbins, I didn't really have the choice for that anyway...
couple of hours with some cereal boxes, a ruler and some polypropylene sheet....and I had myself a battery box :azn:
(https://s6.postimg.org/i7mbnhafx/75.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/i7mbnhafx/)(https://s6.postimg.org/qfo98h2cd/77.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/qfo98h2cd/)
Everything fitted in nicely.. (made a card teplate of how big a 545 odyssey was just for measurements sake)
(https://s6.postimg.org/5k1yx8659/78.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/5k1yx8659/)
a couple of minor alterations to the wiring - mainly shortening stuff for where i wanted things to end up....
(https://s6.postimg.org/dqtyosw7x/79.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/dqtyosw7x/)
I'd been eyeing up some side panels made by a German firm that were the same style as the original v7 sport...i'd made my own panels for the v50 out of fiberglass, using expanding foam as the base - easy to cut and shape... but the whole process was pretty hard going... thankfully, a pair of pre-owned panels came up on ebay for the same price of a single one new...
(https://s6.postimg.org/byjfwng65/52.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/byjfwng65/)
pretty chuffed... I moved the fuses to the battery box, the relays stayed put, and the ignition modules stayed on the left hand side, but decided to make some new mounts to hold the electrics aswell as mount the new side panels..
(https://s6.postimg.org/ovnintjbx/83.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/ovnintjbx/) (https://s6.postimg.org/vamjkhq1p/84.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/vamjkhq1p/)
(https://s6.postimg.org/xhqs8evbx/86.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/xhqs8evbx/)(https://s6.postimg.org/3r3nmnacd/87.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/3r3nmnacd/)
Put in my finally altered airbox earlier today... next job is trim the panels so they fit over the air filters... the right will need some more trimming once i decide where to mount the brake master cylinder too...
(https://s6.postimg.org/pzipkaqzh/91.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/pzipkaqzh/)
My real battery arrived yesterday too... once eveything's wired up, i'll even have a small space to make a tray on top of the battery for some bits and bobs :grin:
(https://s6.postimg.org/5gntf8d25/92.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/5gntf8d25/)
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Nice work :thumb:
I see you retained the P8 ECU, nothing wrong with that but it does take up a lot of room.
Might I suggest a new set of relays to make it more reliable, perhaps re-wiring the start relay.
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I did look for alternatives for the ecu, but after thinking about it, since I could fit it in, and it works, why not just use it :)
What type of relays are they? Is there just one type of mini 5 pin relay or are there different type that wouldn't be suitable? Will take your advice on the starter relay once its back together... seem to remember a couole of wires feeling quite hard when I waas re routing the relays...
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hey andy, loving your work mate
that duc looks great!
love that commando front fender too
I chucked the FI off my calvin and put some carbs on. I too wanted to keep the airbox, but found that it made a difference of maybe as much as 8 sizes on the main jet as opposed to pods so finally ditched it. I think it defintiely does restrict flow even with no snorkels etc... contrary to some recieved wisdom out there, just my first hand experience.
I've been planning to do the same side panel mod for a while, mind telling me which german firm you get the v7 panels from?
good luck with it all
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I did look for alternatives for the ecu, but after thinking about it, since I could fit it in, and it works, why not just use it :)
What type of relays are they? Is there just one type of mini 5 pin relay or are there different type that wouldn't be suitable? Will take your advice on the starter relay once its back together... seem to remember a couole of wires feeling quite hard when I waas re routing the relays...
If you still have Siemens relays. Time to replace. Bosch or those from Dave. http://dpguzzi.com/relay.htm A number of us have purchased relays from him. :thumb:
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I did think about chucking some carbs on to lighten the wiring but was a little more than I wanted to spend, and had a few people telling me the fi was pretty faultless on the 1100, so decided to stick with it... first bike I've had with fi so its all a bit new to me.... so far, so good tho... just worried about throwing anything off sensor-ecu wise... so I figure if I keep it as standard as possible, can't go far wrong ;)
The german firm is ricambi-weiss.de
hopefully this link works (http://www.ricambiweiss.com/SONSTIGE-GFK-ANBAUTEILE/MOTO-GUZZI/007-MOTO-GUZZI-SEITENDECKEL-GFK-LE-MANS-V7-V-7.html)
All the relays have bosch printed on them, but they do look a little old... think I'll invest in a new set just to be on the safe side
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if you don't already have it, here's the FI supplement manual..
http://www.thisoldtractor.com/mg_manuals/workshop_manual_electronic_ignition.pdf
and service manual
http://www.thisoldtractor.com/mg_manuals/workshop_manual_california_1000_1000-i_1100_1100-i_it-en.pdf
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It can be done and others have done the carb switch but the stumbling block would be the electronic ignition. IIRC, the ecu would be looking for input from the sensors for fuel. I don't remember anyone just replacing the carbs. Anyone can correct. Others have replaced the ignition with a distributor and carbs. A little more work. The engine case would need work.
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I have been using these Omrons from Digikey but it's a standard pattern made by many manufacturers
I know Jeep have used them in some models.
Buy all 5 pin relays, they are compatible with the 4 pin and that way you can use in any slot.
\\http://www.omron.com/ecb/products/pdf/en-g8hn.pdf
No, if you have the room for the P8 ECU why change.
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didn't have a copy of the manual - thank you... now downloaded :wink:
when i had a very brief look into a change to carbs, i reember thinking it looked like an awful lot of work, and since everything worked I thought it'd be spending money on no real improvements really, so decided to push ahead with the FI... plus, it felt like it would be a bit more of a personal accomplishment when it was all done and dusted (If i succeeded that is...). There was a cali 3 that came up for sale locally acutally, soon after I bought this one, but decided against the temptaion (besides which, it had Stromberg carbs on it for some reason which was a bit off putting)
Thanks for the info on the relays.. will try and hunt down a source for when it goes back on the road properly.
managed to get a little bit done today... almost finished off tidying up the wiring to the front (one half at least) - all the sensor wires and wires to the throttle bodies and coil packs are sorted. just need to sort out the handlebar/dash wiring.
Whilst Im talking wiring - can anyone tell me the wiring to a modern v7 fuel pump? it's got 4 wires - red, black, blue and white... red and black are positive and negative feeds for the pump, can anyone tell me which the +ve and -ve are for the fuel light? save me taking the pump out again (i noted it down somewhere, but forgotten where :embarrassed: )
(https://s6.postimg.org/47qr246cd/image.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/47qr246cd/)
I wanted to push on with some other bits today though so the other wiring was neatly tucked into the middle for now....
(https://s6.postimg.org/f8lw74yl9/image.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/f8lw74yl9/)
First proper look with tank and seat placed onto the frame... seat still needs rear bracket to sit/lock onto, so is slightly down, and rear fender, in the photo is held above the wheel by a spray tin, but it gave a good indicator of what it will eventually look like i guess :grin:
(https://s6.postimg.org/pvkr9od25/image.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/pvkr9od25/) (https://s6.postimg.org/cfxqk84kd/image.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/cfxqk84kd/) (https://s6.postimg.org/uk0r4v28t/image.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/uk0r4v28t/)
The tank and seat went on so I could figure out where i want to put my foot pegs.... I thought, at the end of the day, im building this for me... I dont really want another project bike after this one... I want to make it as comfortable as I can for a long country lane journey to a ride down the local bike friendly pub so....
sitting comfortably near the tank with plenty of pillion room....
(https://s6.postimg.org/xfdubq68t/image.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/xfdubq68t/)
..... I basically have two positions in mind.... the red dot is where the middle of my foot would rest in position 1... the rear mount for the foot board would be where the middle of my foot would rest in position 2....
(https://s6.postimg.org/hif2f0dul/image.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/hif2f0dul/)
so position 1, legs a little further back, kind of where I think a classic v7s foot peg would be...
comfortable, but.....
(https://s6.postimg.org/lu3o40krh/101.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/lu3o40krh/)
position 2, foot maybe 3 inches further forward, leg straight down from the knee, feels slightly more comfortable with a long ride in mind... and perhaps better lines for the rear master cylinder rod (thats another story mind - not sure how to mount that one yet...)
(https://s6.postimg.org/at8iyzsil/100.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/at8iyzsil/)
question is, how is best to go about making a foot peg...
I thought about making something like what was on the old v7's out of some tube and bend it to suit... also having to factor in making around something to actuate the rear brake too....
(https://s6.postimg.org/etfob8izh/peg.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/etfob8izh/)
so, if anyone has any suggestions for this - i'm all ears.... bit of a stumbling block at the moment...
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Couple choices, both actual Guzzi parts. 1) Tonti Lemans ( your choice of series). 2) T3 type ( maybe even cheaper to purchase used) and modify accordingly . Both will require brake pedals, but using those from LM's or T3 could work as well.
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You could use plate steel for mounts. Cut to order. Paint. The later model bikes use lattice type mounts made out of aluminum.
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You could use plate steel for mounts. Cut to order. Paint. The later model bikes use lattice type mounts made out of aluminum.
These are T-5, SP II mounts on a '00 Jackal note the Guzzi Eagle cast into the aluminum. Spiffy!:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/guzziownr/le%20jackal/bike2-1.jpg)
If you use LeMans parts it will move the foot position back. Here is the semi-complete bike:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/guzziownr/le%20jackal/jackal1100s-4.jpg)
A LeMans, not mine:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/qgntRxrRWWh7hM2--uxi2_wX2TtgMxa7rp7BRyRvO9hkAIpzoCML2yjdCPk5AcrGo7UL3bUU0Bfe-dV13qNeWrU7UVfdPSCMNHlIfLPXkz0BjHI8sl2cgLhMrjst_6SrUo5PRp4AVAq2qXR4-THk9tW542cCAUAaw4rznvNKsngdSbFlJcuFJDdHybPfDKXy9DYr-wF3Cu61IjJ1ivuWrxcvhuwRCQCASbbS90g5XPfRnijn-BOcJ2rUczxG467VGv-4KqhFD8tbrRetSum5s7oC2OCae3pUvd4m2D4mRK52YlX2r23rgjf0qddjq0QWNQVQz-LCpRT3u_Skercih2DxYxypxPCoQmkGxlVxpFwwCLhChI2uNM15ndmy3pqcbmJxJct_jmHBbz2eYvJeKKWgZsQOxKudlZgCS_sOnEaMx47EAOVTCI3BlbfBh7gvY4phcmCH7dzkd3I1Ru6XYE6wtDAAEM9E1bBusa3VOcsoVPRF_iIVHGKlAQTPM58owKd0W6Qn15rnQsOOvkpO3zHPjCO-gy1N0UtmJCYmTO7EXJZLA_lt8YnJPS50eXjfluz_2v71di4UeL1HgssW6rBNx7W2oeHbUCpldbnpgPvMaNab=w640-h426-no)
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Well, I had no luck finding any pegs from a T5.. i quite liked the look of the trellis ali type ones... I even looked for some T3 pegs, again to no avail. Posted a plea on a Guzzi group on facebook and then got a positive reply, only they weren't quite the same, I followed through, and ended up with a set of foot pegs from - I assume an earlier guzzi..
(https://s6.postimg.org/57iw3bh99/a100.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/57iw3bh99/)
I have an old brochure for an 850 le mans, and they look pretty similar, exactly what they were off i couldn't be sure.. perhaps someone can shed some light...
horrid paint job, but 20mins at the bench grinder wire wheel soon sorted that...
had quite a productive evening when I got in from work.. finished off my headlight bracket - I had a spare headlight left over from my Ducati build, so thought i'd put it to good use (just need a beam bender as it kicks up the wrong way). Got a standard Ducati mounting mounting and chopped, drilled and generally molested until it fit nice with a few extra brackets..
(https://s6.postimg.org/5qt19pezh/a101.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/5qt19pezh/)
speedo next (and messy garage shot). Just used the standard speedo from the bike minus the shell (which i haphazardly sort of destroyed getting the speedo cable back on back when it was being ridden - very frustrating task). and next to that a shell from a mini speedo that had been butchered - going to put all my idiot lights in there in LED form...
(https://s6.postimg.org/52k6qrg9p/a102.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/52k6qrg9p/)
Thought it sits rather well....
(https://s6.postimg.org/dm3koiom5/a103.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/dm3koiom5/)
New (to me) forks turned up... old ones were pitted to buggery, and a massive gouge above the right fork seal which peed out after every ride.... so I ended up with some FAC's? only because that was all Gutsibits had in their used spares... but seemed like a good deal anyway so worked out ok... fitted them so I get the calipers to the front too... i do like the classic look :)
(https://s6.postimg.org/hjqudxbfh/a104.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/hjqudxbfh/)
And even had time to trial fit the pegs... quickly cut off the foot board mounts so the brake lever would fit, and tacked the master cylinder in place... will be requiring a bit more chopping on the side panel.....
(https://s6.postimg.org/b7bp438d9/a105.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/b7bp438d9/)
going to get it out tomorrow in the daylight, throw the tank and seat back on and see how she feels...
Pretty pleased with the progress so far.. :)
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Andy, your V50 is a beaut!
(http://thumb.ibb.co/dsP60a/IMG_0473.jpg) (http://ibb.co/dsP60a)
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Cheers :) had fun building the v50 and was what got me into the Guzzi world... just didnt like the straight cut gearbox :( so had to go (and i can only fit 3 bikes confortably in my garage :/ )
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http://www.rebootguzzispares.com/index.html
Ask these guys if they have T5 brackets. Last I knew they had a couple T5's they were parting out. SPIII might be the same and I know they had three of them.
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Got a reply from reboot saying they didn't have anything... will keep looking, but will stick with the ones I found for now :) they look nice and retro if nothing else ;)
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Great job!
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What primo looking work on the V50 and Ducati, very nice!
I like the direction you're going in this build,,, simple, reliable, functional, comfortable, nice handling bike,,, your tank transforms the bike completely, what's not to love ;~)
Tks for taking the time to document and post your progress,,,
Good luck with it
Kelly
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Andy
Whereabouts in the UK are you? I'm clearing my father's workshop down in Essex. There's a lathe there that I could let you have at an attractive price.
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thanks guys, i'm really glad how she's turning out... there was one point where I thought I might have bitten off a bit more project than I initially wanted, but it's come good...
I got her outside earlier this morning to get the tank and seat on and see how the foot pegs faired, see if they felt comfortable, and I can happily say they feel pretty perfect! Only a long ride out would really confirm it mind, but just sitting on her felt really nice (even if I have only got one side sorted so far....
and she looks a beaut! what a difference a headlight makes to a bike..
(https://s6.postimg.org/ofb2x15wd/a106.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/ofb2x15wd/)
Side panel needs a trim to fit over the master cylinder....
(https://s6.postimg.org/w9g9w6331/a107.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/w9g9w6331/)
just took off the cylinder for now.... definitely getting there
(https://s6.postimg.org/k8utvfvod/a108.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/k8utvfvod/) (https://s6.postimg.org/lcey7egbh/a109.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/lcey7egbh/) (https://s6.postimg.org/40ellymu5/a110.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/40ellymu5/)
Andy
Whereabouts in the UK are you? I'm clearing my father's workshop down in Essex. There's a lathe there that I could let you have at an attractive price.
I'm up on the Wirral - inbetween Liverpool and North Wales... so a fair ways from essex... Cheer for the thought - i'd love to have a lathe, but I don't think i could fit even a small one in my garage (barely fit what I have in there now!) That coupled with plans to emigrate to Oz in a couple of years, I'll have to pass it up unfortunately :undecided:
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I posted some pic on F.B. wildguzzi group page. I used the oem rear foot peg bracket to start my rearset setup. Front pegs are where the rear are and the rear are mounted where the exhaust was hung. I modeled the shifter after the sport1100, There are oem sport shifters that are available if you do not want to fabricate as I did. It will mount right up to the Tonti frame. Made a brake lever and master cylinder set up that worked with the pegs. I posted a right and left side view.
The spine frame bike has many of the dimensions/geometry as the Tonti frame. When I started my project, I found drawings of the various Tonti frames and Sport frames to help decide on oem parts. Saving time in fabrication plus keeping the bike o.e.m. My build has parts from 14 different models.
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Andy thanks for the project posts. The V50 and DUC projects look out great. I love where your going with the 1100. at the risk of opening up a can of worms I'd say your work exemplifies the form follows function approach yet proves artistry and creativity are necessary in the building process, and not just complementary, to produce a one of a kind beautiful classic looking bike. Do you take time to just sit in your garage with a pint in your hand and admire your work?
Cheers
Dave
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I posted some pic on F.B. wildguzzi group page. I used the oem rear foot peg bracket to start my rearset setup. Front pegs are where the rear are and the rear are mounted where the exhaust was hung. I modeled the shifter after the sport1100, There are oem sport shifters that are available if you do not want to fabricate as I did. It will mount right up to the Tonti frame. Made a brake lever and master cylinder set up that worked with the pegs. I posted a right and left side view.
The spine frame bike has many of the dimensions/geometry as the Tonti frame. When I started my project, I found drawings of the various Tonti frames and Sport frames to help decide on oem parts. Saving time in fabrication plus keeping the bike o.e.m. My build has parts from 14 different models.
I couldn't see a F.B group for wildguzzi... got a link?
I thought about using the oem foot pegs - when riding i joked to myself it was comfier to use the rear pegs than the boards, but thought they were a bit too bulky - and turns out a little too far rearward...
Thankfully the footpegs I managed to find came with the brake lever and the gear shifter so hopefully all the big purchases are done... well, maybe some new rear shocks.... we'll see... good to know the spine frame guzzis share parts... I was limiting my ebay searching to tonti bits and bobs...
Andy thanks for the project posts. The V50 and DUC projects look out great. I love where your going with the 1100. at the risk of opening up a can of worms I'd say your work exemplifies the form follows function approach yet proves artistry and creativity are necessary in the building process, and not just complementary, to produce a one of a kind beautiful classic looking bike. Do you take time to just sit in your garage with a pint in your hand and admire your work?
Cheers
Dave
cheers dave, to be honest, from the start i knew i wanted a v7 tank (i'd have bought a v7 if it wasn't for the cost of them, and the fact i wanted a big block) So i decided to make it look like one instead :wink: I like the simple lines of the old classic guzzi's and hope it ends up looking as good as one. If i get a little excited every time i walk back to her when i've stopped on a ride, i'll have succeeded.
(and yes, i do like going into the garage and just sit there looking how she's coming along :wink: was the same with the Duc and v50 when they were coming along too)
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I couldn't see a F.B group for wildguzzi... got a link?
I thought about using the oem foot pegs - when riding i joked to myself it was comfier to use the rear pegs than the boards, but thought they were a bit too bulky - and turns out a little too far rearward...
Thankfully the footpegs I managed to find came with the brake lever and the gear shifter so hopefully all the big purchases are done... well, maybe some new rear shocks.... we'll see... good to know the spine frame guzzis share parts... I was limiting my ebay searching to tonti bits and bobs...
cheers dave, to be honest, from the start i knew i wanted a v7 tank (i'd have bought a v7 if it wasn't for the cost of them, and the fact i wanted a big block) So i decided to make it look like one instead :wink: I like the simple lines of the old classic guzzi's and hope it ends up looking as good as one. If i get a little excited every time i walk back to her when i've stopped on a ride, i'll have succeeded.
(and yes, i do like going into the garage and just sit there looking how she's coming along :wink: was the same with the Duc and v50 when they were coming along too)
Moto Guzzi National Owners Group on F.B.
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Moto Guzzi National Owners Group on F.B.
Joined :wink:
Have a few more updates - booked this past week off work (needed to use up my holiday allowance), and so far got a fair bit done :)
So i got the frame and engine split
(https://s6.postimg.org/6xypd6o7x/a121.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/6xypd6o7x/)
there was a fair bit of oil from the bottom of the bell housing, so i wanted to investigate. After posting about my 'oil leak' in a different thread I found the culprit....
I found a pool of fresh looking oil on the very top of the rear crank bearing housing, and remembered the previous owner mention, not long before he sold it, the braided oil feed hoses failed and spewed oil all over the top of the crank cases.... as such, looks like it has flowed into the bell housing causing said mess...
(https://s6.postimg.org/de7o39wrh/a123.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/de7o39wrh/) (https://s6.postimg.org/q9kpn5icd/a127.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/q9kpn5icd/)
thankfully clutch was unaffected by the oil slick, and was pleased to see he wasn't telling tall tales when said the clutch was also recently replaced :thumb:
(https://s6.postimg.org/csnakwr31/a126.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/csnakwr31/)
then disaster! The clutch arm was proper stiff!! like, almost seized... you couldn't move it by hand without a bit of extra leverage... no wonder the clutch was showing signs of drag... so whilst getting the arm pin out, after tapping out half way - POP! after failing to find a replacement, I took it to a local guy i know who can weld ali, and he did a nice job of it...
(https://s6.postimg.org/63h7o9mot/a128.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/63h7o9mot/) (https://s6.postimg.org/mfr9e010d/a129.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/mfr9e010d/)
Also, whilst they were off, I got my yokes vapour blasted :)
(https://s6.postimg.org/u9ruze8t9/a130.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/u9ruze8t9/)
Whilst waiting for the ali welding, decided it was time to clean the engine, 5 or so hours of cleaning and prep before painting and she came up really nice..
(https://s6.postimg.org/rgynfd8gt/a131.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/rgynfd8gt/) (https://s6.postimg.org/iagcs338d/a132.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/iagcs338d/)
Once the welding had been done, gearbox to match
(https://s6.postimg.org/p26ruxs7x/a133.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/p26ruxs7x/)
the same guy who did the welding has sandblasting equipment (amongst his alladins cave of engineering tools) so got him to do my lower rails before I got the grinder to the foot board mounts..
(https://s6.postimg.org/kubzm6qsd/a134.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/kubzm6qsd/)
Tomorrows job, seat mounts on the frame, and make a mounting bracket for the rear fender... at least there's some good prrogress :)
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I found a pool of fresh looking oil on the very top of the rear crank bearing housing, and remembered the previous owner mention, not long before he sold it, the braided oil feed hoses failed and spewed oil all over the top of the crank cases.... as such, looks like it has flowed into the bell housing causing said mess...
thankfully clutch was unaffected by the oil slick, and was pleased to see he wasn't telling tall tales when said the clutch was also recently replaced :thumb:
If it were me, I'd make sure that it wasn't going to leak by replacing the gaskets (main bearing flange and breather pipe), applying JB Weld to the cam plug and sealing the two lower bolts of the main bearing flange. Otherwise you risk that the blown oil line wasn't the only cause of the oily mess.
I'm not a fan of those "spoked" clutch plates - I've seen more than a few fracture at the "spokes".
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[I'm not a fan of those "spoked" clutch plates - I've seen more than a few fracture at the "spokes".] Thanks for pointing that out , Charlie. Have done a couple too many clutch jobs myself due to factory installed spoke type clutch discs.
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Looks good Andy!
I really need to build myself a vapour blaster. That finish is hard to beat! :grin:
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Great thread Andy :bow:
Dusty
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Cheers guys, i'm quite enjoying the build so far... nice to look back through the photos too... been a few that have sparked ideas i hadn't thought off too which is handy...
If it were me, I'd make sure that it wasn't going to leak by replacing the gaskets (main bearing flange and breather pipe), applying JB Weld to the cam plug and sealing the two lower bolts of the main bearing flange. Otherwise you risk that the blown oil line wasn't the only cause of the oily mess.
I'm not a fan of those "spoked" clutch plates - I've seen more than a few fracture at the "spokes".
Replaced the breather pipe gasket, and sealed up the cam plug.... I may well end up regretting it, but I dont fancy pulling the main bearing housing at this moment in time... 1. the puller i have doesn't have a big enough diameter, and 2. the thought of it scares the bejeesus out of me.... i'll man up and do it when i notice a leak down there again :wink:
Are there alternative types of clutch plates for the cali's?
Just finished up another day on the bike... today I wanted to get the rear fender mounted (plstic universal jobbie off ebay).. i noticed a rusty threaded hole either side of the frame to the rear -obviously not used on the calis, but left in, so decided to use it for the rear mounting point...
(https://s6.postimg.org/c73vstvrx/a135.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/c73vstvrx/) (https://s6.postimg.org/ridotft3x/a137.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/ridotft3x/)
Got a seat latch from a kawasaki of some sort off ebay nice and cheap, slight adjustment to the seat latch and made it fit... the cable it came with is slightly long (only by about an inch mind) but managed to make it work with the original seat latch key...
(https://s6.postimg.org/wv2j7kh0d/a138.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/wv2j7kh0d/) (https://s6.postimg.org/sn7qytfkt/a139.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/sn7qytfkt/)
not 100% convinced on the indicators since you can see the wiring coming back along the frame rail.... could always move them next to the top shock mounts.. but we'll see....
(https://s6.postimg.org/kke618kd9/a141.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/kke618kd9/) (https://s6.postimg.org/zey61o4kd/a140.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/zey61o4kd/)
the frame is now officially ready for powder coating! :grin: so that'll be first job of the new year... coupld of small brackets to finish off that'll go along to the powder coaters too... looking forward to finally starting to build her back up again!
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Are there alternative types of clutch plates for the cali's?
Several alternatives, here are MG Cycle's selections, my choice would be the second one:
http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=193&products_id=4749
http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=193&products_id=1165
Like I've posted before - I'd stay away from Sureflex unless you like a grabby clutch and Barnett unless having to replace the clutch hub every 30k miles appeals to you. :wink:
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Ahh i see.. they do look a lot more substantial... See how long i get out of this set and i'll look to upgrading :cheesy:
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Replaced the breather pipe gasket, and sealed up the cam plug.... I may well end up regretting it, but I dont fancy pulling the main bearing housing at this moment in time... 1. the puller i have doesn't have a big enough diameter, and 2. the thought of it scares the bejeesus out of me.... i'll man up and do it when i notice a leak down there again :wink:
Are there alternative types of clutch plates for the cali's?
Project is looking great, Andy!
A couple of thoughts:
1. We often joke that Guzzi start building each bike by suspending a clutch disc in the middle of the air, and building the motorcycle around it. It really is a lot of work to get back in there, so I would strongly recommend that you take all steps to seal up the back of the engine while you are in there. Yes, it's a bit of work to take out the rear main bearing for re-sealing, but you'll kick yourself (repeatedly) for not doing so if you get the bike finished, fire it up, and see oil start dripping out the bottom. Your choice, of course, but I know from personal experience that it is REALLY important to make sure you take care of EVERYTHING in there when you have it apart.
2. As for clutch friction discs, these seem to be the favored units, at present.
http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=193&products_id=1165 (http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=193&products_id=1165)
You should be able to order from Stein-Dinse if you can't find locally in the UK.
Cheers,
Shaun
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You're probably right... and for the cost of the gasket and seal, i would be daft not to....
is it as easy as removing the bolts, pulling the housing and replacing the gasket and seal? does the crank stay put or will it drop? and is it a PITA to refit the housing? and how exactly are the longer bolts sealed up? instant gasket?
That's an awful lot of questions for one paragraph.... sorry :embarrassed:
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You're probably right... and for the cost of the gasket and seal, i would be daft not to....
is it as easy as removing the bolts, pulling the housing and replacing the gasket and seal? does the crank stay put or will it drop? and is it a PITA to refit the housing? and how exactly are the longer bolts sealed up? instant gasket?
That's an awful lot of questions for one paragraph.... sorry :embarrassed:
Better to ask questions that to miss something important! Ideally, you would use the purpose-built tool to remove it:
http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=80&products_id=334 (http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=80&products_id=334)
However, there are other methods that work quite well, one of which can be found here:
http://www.thisoldtractor.com/moto_guzzi_loopframe_rear_main_bearing_flange_removal_tool.html (http://www.thisoldtractor.com/moto_guzzi_loopframe_rear_main_bearing_flange_removal_tool.html)
The crank will stay in place, but I would lay then engine over on its nose (properly blocked up so that it is stable) while working on it.
There is also a tool that is made to install the rear main seal:
http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=80&products_id=2962 (http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=80&products_id=2962)
However, it is possible to do it without if you're careful. I seem to recall that I used a large socket the first time, and then very carefully installed the bearing with the seal oiled and cautiously slipped over the crank.
For sealing up the two lower bolts, I follow Charlie's advice, and use Hondabond. Check out Charlie's post (7th post in this thread) where he describes what he uses to seal the engine:
http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=70784.0 (http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=70784.0)
Hope this helps.
Shaun
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If the frame is part of the breather system, and it's going to be stripped, I'd caution against sand blasting! I know of a bike that killed two rebuilt engines due to sand from blasting getting in there. I'd think there would be a way to clean it out, but someone who knows better advised scrapping the frame.
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Helpful info... thank you.. I think i'll bite the bullet and do the rear bearing/seal housing.... when re-installing the housing, does it slide back on easy enough?
on the above thread, Charlie - you mention 22ft lbs for torque figure - this is for the rear bearing/seal housing is it? (just double checking i've not got any wires crossed whilst i'm asking... :wink: )
I'll have to find the equivalent of the permatex 300... found some hondabond... i guess it'll be obvious where to seal the bolts once they're going back in...
If the frame is part of the breather system, and it's going to be stripped, I'd caution against sand blasting! I know of a bike that killed two rebuilt engines due to sand from blasting getting in there. I'd think there would be a way to clean it out, but someone who knows better advised scrapping the frame.
This is a very good point... and I hadn't even occurred to me!! thank you for mentioning it...i'll have to think of a work around on that one... the lower part of the frame really needs blasting due to the surface rust being in places i can't reach by any stretch of the imagination... if i were to blank the breather holes and all the mounting bolt holes into the top rails, and get just the lower parts blasted, i suppose that might be enough? is there an opening by the headstock under the bracing at all?
either way, looks like it'll have to cope with just a paint job rather than powder coat..
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Helpful info... thank you.. I think i'll bite the bullet and do the rear bearing/seal housing.... when re-installing the housing, does it slide back on easy enough?
on the above thread, Charlie - you mention 22ft lbs for torque figure - this is for the rear bearing/seal housing is it? (just double checking i've not got any wires crossed whilst i'm asking... :wink: )
I'll have to find the equivalent of the permatex 300... found some hondabond... i guess it'll be obvious where to seal the bolts once they're going back in...
99% of them come out and go back in without drama and fairly easy. I did have one that was so stuck that the "ears" of the main bearing flange snapped off before the flange budged. :sad:
When reinstalling, I use four long bolts as guide pins so that all of the bolt holes are sure to line up. Most of the time the bearing/flange goes in with nothing more than a little convincing with the dead-blow hammer. Chilling the bearing/flange and warming the engine case helps. On earlier engines they seem to fit tighter and sometimes my guide pins are replaced by threaded rods with nuts and washers on them and I push the bearing/flange in by turning each nut 1/2 turn in a cross pattern until it's seated.
22 ft. lbs. is the factory torque spec. for the eight M8-1.25 x 25 grade 8.8 bolts that secure the bearing/flange to the engine case. I've found that figure to work well, but there is a certain amount of "feel" involved and experience in knowing when something isn't right.
Permatex 300 or Aviation (basically the same thing) should be available, found some on Amazon UK, but boy is it expensive!
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Permatex-80057-Super-Gasket-Sealant/dp/B01B3HUD3M/ref=sr_1_1?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1482605780&sr=1-1&keywords=permatex+300
It's about $5 a bottle here.
The two lower bearing/flange bolts get coated "liberally" with Hondabond/Yamabond/Threebond - I do the threads and underside of the head. Too much is just enough. :laugh:
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Hi, Andy.
One other thing that is worth checking while you are in there is the clutch hub (Charlie mentioned it earlier in relation to certain clutch friction plates). Just check the splines on it to ensure that they aren't notched. Here is a really bad example for reference:
(http://thumb.ibb.co/hSgxOv/clutch_hub.jpg) (http://ibb.co/hSgxOv)
Again, while you are in there, you'll want to make sure that everything is in good shape. When you install the gearbox, make sure you refresh the clutch push rod seals so gear oil doesn't migrate up into the bellhouising and destroy your lovely new friction plate!
Sorry if this is something that has been covered already.
Cheers, and Happy Christmas!
Shaun
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That is nice (and very thorough) work you do Andy. :thumb:
Enjoying this thread.
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Hi Andy. Great write up on the progress of the build. I went through the same build process last year on my EV1100 cafe build.
(http://i1368.photobucket.com/albums/ag170/salsaman1964/EV11%20Cafe_zpsw4ztrrnh.jpg) (http://s1368.photobucket.com/user/salsaman1964/media/EV11%20Cafe_zpsw4ztrrnh.jpg.html)
I can appreciate the work involved in bringing all the components together. The battery box is a very neat solution for hiding that humongous ECU. Fortunately i Had the later model with the smaller ecu but still had a headache making the side panel fit.
Good luck with the project.
Regards Tony
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Hi Andy. Great write up on the progress of the build. I went through the same build process last year on my EV1100 cafe build.
(http://i1368.photobucket.com/albums/ag170/salsaman1964/EV11%20Cafe_zpsw4ztrrnh.jpg) (http://s1368.photobucket.com/user/salsaman1964/media/EV11%20Cafe_zpsw4ztrrnh.jpg.html)
I can appreciate the work involved in bringing all the components together. The battery box is a very neat solution for hiding that humongous ECU. Fortunately i Had the later model with the smaller ecu but still had a headache making the side panel fit.
Good luck with the project.
Regards Tony
Tony,
Wow, what a beautiful machine! Is there an existing build thread for your bike that captures the details? If not, maybe you could start one? I do wish Guzzi would build a big block retro model!
Edit: Found it!
[http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=83677.msg1320975#msg1320975 (http://[http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=83677.msg1320975#msg1320975)
Cheers,
Shaun
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had a bit of time off forums so thought it's about time i made a little update on the old build!
Hi Andy. Great write up on the progress of the build. I went through the same build process last year on my EV1100 cafe build.
(http://i1368.photobucket.com/albums/ag170/salsaman1964/EV11%20Cafe_zpsw4ztrrnh.jpg) (http://s1368.photobucket.com/user/salsaman1964/media/EV11%20Cafe_zpsw4ztrrnh.jpg.html)
I can appreciate the work involved in bringing all the components together. The battery box is a very neat solution for hiding that humongous ECU. Fortunately i Had the later model with the smaller ecu but still had a headache making the side panel fit.
Good luck with the project.
Regards Tony
have to say before i waffle on about mine, that's a beaut!! very nice indeed....
so last time i posted, i was having hesitations about taking the rear engine cover off.... well, i used the grub screw method on thisoldtractor, and worked like a charm :)
(https://s6.postimg.org/6nqwwm6n1/a142.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/6nqwwm6n1/)
the seal however was a little bit stubborn coming out... nothing a bit of hot copper didnt solve though
(https://s6.postimg.org/71s8w7qql/a143.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/71s8w7qql/) (https://s6.postimg.org/scpt0h8v1/a144.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/scpt0h8v1/)
made my own clutch spring compressor jobbie, and managed to just about get the plates lined up ok - what a pig!!
(https://s6.postimg.org/pk16u6xwd/a145.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/pk16u6xwd/) (https://s6.postimg.org/3yw46l15p/a146.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/3yw46l15p/) (https://s6.postimg.org/64qf134m5/a147.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/64qf134m5/)
Got the frame powder coated.... lovely finish, very impressed. I tried to seal up the tubes for the breather system, but I dont think i succeeded... cant find the phto, but i ended up making a seperate breater chamber out of some tube i had in my scrap metal bin :) worked a treat, and mounted where the original filter sat.
(https://s6.postimg.org/d988a4bvh/a148.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/d988a4bvh/)
front wheel done to match the rear whilst i had a bit of down time...
(https://s6.postimg.org/vq2n0xrtp/a149.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/vq2n0xrtp/)
then started to build her up again...
(https://s6.postimg.org/bjz521w65/a150.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/bjz521w65/)
(https://s6.postimg.org/nad2jfoyl/a151.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/nad2jfoyl/) (https://s6.postimg.org/fvnqr2331/a152.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/fvnqr2331/) (https://s6.postimg.org/bnsyib1nh/a153.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/bnsyib1nh/)
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got the side panels back on sunday - my dad used to be a painter, and still does his own bits and pieces, so he did the panels whilst he had the gear out painting his old mk1 mini cooper s... turned out lovely!
(https://s6.postimg.org/5bdt8gyl9/a154.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/5bdt8gyl9/)
had fun matching up the colour, ended up using an old saab blue... its slightly darker, but you'd have to really look to notice...
I managed to pick up some Mistral end cans for a v7 off ebay... one side had a very slight scuff, so made a nice saving on the new price.... bit of cutting and welding on the h-pipe to get em to fit nicely... sounds very nice...
wheeled her out of the garage, and im very pleased with the result...
(https://s6.postimg.org/rap9sslr5/a155.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/d49ixkavx/)
(https://s6.postimg.org/qz7tg15b5/a156.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/uitr5u80t/)
(https://s6.postimg.org/yt8f1fd41/a157.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/7vehzosgt/)
I ended up giving up on my quest for a more subtle side stand, couldnt find anything to fit, or anywhere to weld a nice looking mount, so ended up welding the original back into place... at least its reliable i guess :)
(https://s6.postimg.org/p9yq7yplt/a158.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/5s42s0snx/)
insuring her wasn't fun.... paid a bit more than i was happy with, but hey.... i'll cope... i get to ride her to the garage on wednesday for her MOT, and i'll be road legal!
got some white and silver vinyl, so might have a go at putting similar stripes to the tank onto the panels.... break up the blue a little....
but for now, i'll call this project finished :)
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Congratulations, Andy, she looks muscular and purposeful, great proportions! :thumb:
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:thumb: :thumb:
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It is indeed a great-looking bike! Congratulations and well-done!
I'd like to revisit the pics on page 1 of the thread...your replacement fuel filter looks to be a two-piece design with 1/2 plastic and 1/2 metal if I can believe my tired old eyes...those have been known to fail...mostly due to ethanol-additive fuels that we have here in the colonies but the two-piece design is simply a crimp-fit and if that upper plastic piece fails to seal correctly the bike will run like 'shite' or not at all...just a heads-up and you can find a proper all metal filter at af1racing.com...YMM V and it may never fail but I wanted you to be aware...HTH
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cheers guys.. im very pleased with the looks now... just wish i didnt have to wait until wednesday to ride her...
just had a quick look back to pg1 re: fuel filter, think my pic was a ltitle misleading - that was after i'd replaced the half plastic filter with the full metal cased one :wink: i'd read a few people talking about them failing like you say, so swapped it out before i fitted the pump :)