Author Topic: Power Commander help  (Read 2765 times)

Offline ahoward125

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Power Commander help
« on: April 16, 2020, 10:13:54 AM »
Set the "way-back" machine to the early 2000's
So my 2002 EV had a power commander, punched out mufflers and a K&N style filter...
It runs pretty strong and I like the bike
but when cruising along 2-3K rpm with the throttle just open a crack it will chuff and pop and hesitate.
New Plugs, wires, fuel filter. and new rubber intake boots for the intake manifolds.
I know everyone is using GuzziDiag to tune now but I would rather not climb that learning curve and was wondering if anyone had a good map (east coast USA) they could send me. I went to the DynoJet website and they don't list Guzzi maps.

Thoughts? Am I barking up the wrong tree here? Honestly if I had stock mufflers for the bike I would go without the PC, I don't have the bike for racing, just riding and enjoying the sights.
thanks
AJ

Offline usedtobefast

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Re: Power Commander help
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2020, 11:40:12 AM »
Can you read the map and maybe post it up?  Not sure if you've dug into it much, but there is a table of RPMs and Throttle Position.   The values in there are a % increase over stock ... so a "5" means 5% richer for that particular rpm/throttle setting.

A common thing is to create a zero map ... all fields zero, meaning do nothing Power Commander.  So save a copy of your current map (to a few different places), named clearly  :grin:, then zero all the values out, name that one Zero Map, load it in, go for a ride.

The Power Commander is obviously still in the loop, wiring wise, but it isn't modifying fueling with this Zero Map. 

You may find the issue is still there with the zero map and the "tuned" map, and then you can chase that down vs. tweaking the mapping.  Like a TPS or balancing or electrical problem, etc.

As for changing your current map, sure, the best thing is a full dyno tune with AFR numbers, etc ... but if you don't go too nuts with the numbers in there you could try some tweaking on your own.

One thing I've never really figured out ... let's say you have a bike with carbs, and you change the idle jets from a 50 to a 57, what % change is that?  And no, you can't just do math on the 50 and 57  :grin:

From my playing around with Power Commanders, I think it is hard for a human butt dyno to notice a 2%-3% change.  You can do 10% changes, ride and see ... if problem better (or fixed) then try dialing that back a bit.

And for all the people that go "AHHHH!  You can't go changing those numbers willy nilly!" ... well, guys put 36mm flat side carbs on bikes that came with original CV 32mm carbs, and dialed them in, so just don't get more crazy than that.  :grin:


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Offline Rich A

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Re: Power Commander help
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2020, 11:44:40 AM »
If it ran ok before, I'd check the throttle position sensor.

Rich A

Online PeteS

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Re: Power Commander help
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2020, 12:04:44 PM »
If it ran ok before, I'd check the throttle position sensor.

Rich A

I agree. I had a PC on my '98 EV, ran great but a bad TPS would still give these symptoms. I was fortunate back in the day that someone had posted a map using the Harley TPS so changing it only cost about 30 bucks from Harley vs about a 100 from Guzzi.

Pete

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Re: Power Commander help
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2020, 12:04:44 PM »

Online Zoom Zoom

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Re: Power Commander help
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2020, 12:53:54 PM »
Plus 3 on the TPS

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Offline ahoward125

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Re: Power Commander help
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2020, 02:25:28 PM »
I have to admit that a friend who is a BMW expert did the work for me. He checked the TPS along with the other work. I just got the bike, I didn't get to ride it all that much before I dropped it off (it really needed brakes)
So I should look up a tutorial on checking TPS and looking there first?
The bike pulls like mad when you get on it, or are even cruising on the highway.

Offline Kiwi Dave

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Re: Power Commander help
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2020, 03:18:01 PM »
I agree with the others, it's unlikely to be a corrupted map.

What version power commander is it?  I think I have some maps hidden away for a PC-III and a PC-V.

Online Huzo

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Re: Power Commander help
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2020, 04:56:29 PM »
The only command I ever got when I had such a thing on my Norge, was from Roper and Beetle to “throw the #$&##$..ing” thing in the bin and put Beetle’s map in.
Pulls like a 14 year old boy with a Penthouse and I cannot make it ping..
Back to standard, take Roper’s advice and give Beetle a little bit of money...Forrrgettta bbbarrrtit...!
« Last Edit: April 17, 2020, 10:03:58 AM by Huzo »

Offline jwinwi

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Re: Power Commander help
« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2020, 05:51:19 PM »
The only commend I ever got when I had such a thing on my Norge, was from Roper and Beetle to “throw the #$&##$..ing” thing in the bin and pit Beetle’s map in.
Pulls like a 14 year old boy with a Penthouse and I cannot make it ping..
Back to standard, take Roper’s advice and give Beetle a little bit of money...Forrrgettta bbbarrrtit...!

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Re: Power Commander help
« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2020, 06:00:52 PM »
The only commend I ever got when I had such a thing on my Norge, was from Roper and Beetle to “throw the #$&##$..ing” thing in the bin and pit Beetle’s map in.
Pulls like a 14 year old boy with a Penthouse and I cannot make it ping..
Back to standard, take Roper’s advice and give Beetle a little bit of money...Forrrgettta bbbarrrtit...!



Don't get me involved in this. I'm not interested.

Offline ahoward125

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Re: Power Commander help
« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2020, 07:21:10 AM »
Ok, first thing, check the TPS... Time to look in for a "how-to"
AAAAND my multimeter is at work and we are locked out. <SIGH>


beetle, I'm not 100% sure what people are talking about, but message received.

Online Huzo

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Re: Power Commander help
« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2020, 10:14:00 AM »
Ok, first thing, check the TPS... Time to look in for a "how-to"
AAAAND my multimeter is at work and we are locked out. <SIGH>


beetle, I'm not 100% sure what people are talking about, but message received.
Mate..
Power commanders are just a device to soak the living tripe out of the problem with fuel.
I used to have one.
If you take it off, get the TB’s done, put a proper air filter in and install Beetle’s map, you’ll have no issues.
I cannot fathom why people keep asking how to fix a problem
When it’s so well documented here on WG how to fix the problem.

Offline guzzisteve

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Re: Power Commander help
« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2020, 10:25:01 AM »
When you do a tune-up with a PC you have to disconnect it then tune bike w/TPS check, TB balance, etc.. when done plug it back on and all may be good.
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Online Huzo

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Re: Power Commander help
« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2020, 10:36:35 AM »
I have to admit that a friend who is a BMW expert did the work for me. He checked the TPS along with the other work. I just got the bike, I didn't get to ride it all that much before I dropped it off (it really needed brakes)
So I should look up a tutorial on checking TPS and looking there first?
The bike pulls like mad when you get on it, or are even cruising on the highway.
How many litres/100 km does it drink @ 65 mph ?
Or..
How far will it go @ 60-70 mph before the yellow light illuminates ?

Offline ahoward125

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Re: Power Commander help
« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2020, 11:02:15 AM »
Huzo, I've been away from the scene for about 10 years now... PowerCommander was the only game in town and there is one on the old EV I could not pass up.


Offline ahoward125

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Re: Power Commander help
« Reply #15 on: April 17, 2020, 11:03:53 AM »
How many litres/100 km does it drink @ 65 mph ?
Or..
How far will it go @ 60-70 mph before the yellow light illuminates ?
Not very far till the light goes off... 120something... I think
I've only had it out for a long ride twice and only ran it till the gas light hit once.

Offline usedtobefast

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Re: Power Commander help
« Reply #16 on: April 17, 2020, 11:30:20 AM »
I'm a big Beetle map fan, and a fan of TuneECU (for my KTM's).  If we have an ECU that we can access/read/write we are very fortunate! 

I've also used Powercommanders on bikes where you can't read/write the ECU maps.  And it really is cool that you can get a custom tuned bike at any dynojet place that does it, and many other nice features.  Like on one BMW I left the fueling map stock for 5th and 6th gears so gas mileage was excellent, but then had richer settings for gears 1-4 for better acceleration/running on back roads. 

If it were me, like I said earlier, I'd quickly make up a zero map, load that, see if things change ... I'm guessing they will not and your issue is TPS or balancing or maybe slightly clogged injectors.  Bad injector spray is more noticeable at lower rpm's than higher, and if the bike has been sitting alot that might be an issue.  And could be a combo of things.  Well, actually, I'd do two things ... a zero map, and I'd do a 10% richer map in the rpm/throttle area where you are seeing issues and try that. 



 


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Offline ahoward125

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Re: Power Commander help
« Reply #17 on: April 17, 2020, 11:35:10 AM »
I'm a big Beetle map fan, and a fan of TuneECU (for my KTM's).  If we have an ECU that we can access/read/write we are very fortunate! 

I've also used Powercommanders on bikes where you can't read/write the ECU maps.  And it really is cool that you can get a custom tuned bike at any dynojet place that does it, and many other nice features.  Like on one BMW I left the fueling map stock for 5th and 6th gears so gas mileage was excellent, but then had richer settings for gears 1-4 for better acceleration/running on back roads. 

If it were me, like I said earlier, I'd quickly make up a zero map, load that, see if things change ... I'm guessing they will not and your issue is TPS or balancing or maybe slightly clogged injectors.  Bad injector spray is more noticeable at lower rpm's than higher, and if the bike has been sitting alot that might be an issue.  And could be a combo of things.  Well, actually, I'd do two things ... a zero map, and I'd do a 10% richer map in the rpm/throttle area where you are seeing issues and try that.
That reminds me that I want to pick up some injector cleaner and run it through a tank of fuel (although the bike hadn't been sitting all that long before I got it)
First the TPS, then I may try to either zero the map or go the beetle route.

Offline usedtobefast

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Re: Power Commander help
« Reply #18 on: April 17, 2020, 11:44:55 AM »
That reminds me that I want to pick up some injector cleaner and run it through a tank of fuel (although the bike hadn't been sitting all that long before I got it)
First the TPS, then I may try to either zero the map or go the beetle route.

I was thinking more like this:  https://www.mrinjector.us/

Then you know they are spraying correctly.  Probably a local inexpensive place to do it as well vs. shipping to MrInjector.  Or go to youtube and see video of cleaning/checking them yourself (which seems like it could get messy spraying gas into jars and all  :grin: )
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Online Huzo

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Re: Power Commander help
« Reply #19 on: April 17, 2020, 03:38:28 PM »
Huzo, I've been away from the scene for about 10 years now... PowerCommander was the only game in town and there is one on the old EV I could not pass up.
Don’t get me wrong Howie, I did the same thing..
But the solution is as simple as it sounds. Just remove the unit, throw it under a bus or similar large vehicle and make sure it goes under the wheels..
Get the map.
Install it.

Online Huzo

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Re: Power Commander help
« Reply #20 on: April 17, 2020, 03:45:37 PM »
Not very far till the light goes off... 120something... I think
I've only had it out for a long ride twice and only ran it till the gas light hit once.
My Norge is nothing special mechanically.
If I had to under absolutely ideal conditions, I can get 500 km at 100 kph before dry.
Now realistically that’s not feasible, but at very slightly illegal highway speeds, the light will come on at 380 k, indicating that I could have done 470 ish.
If I refill immediately it illuminates, I ALWAYS fit 19 litres in, the light is accurate.
Also.
When you said the “light goes off”, I presume you meant “comes on”.

Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Power Commander help
« Reply #21 on: April 17, 2020, 06:42:01 PM »
Don’t get me wrong Howie, I did the same thing..
But the solution is as simple as it sounds. Just remove the unit, throw it under a bus or similar large vehicle and make sure it goes under the wheels..
Get the map.
Install it.

That's all well and good..
but
The Mighty Scura was dyno tuned with a Power Commander a *really* long time ago. It runs bitchin. Plenty of power, no hiccups, gets decent fuel mileage for what it is. When done correctly, they are fine.
I wouldn't just automatically throw it away.
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Online PeteS

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Re: Power Commander help
« Reply #22 on: April 17, 2020, 07:42:55 PM »
That's all well and good..
but
The Mighty Scura was dyno tuned with a Power Commander a *really* long time ago. It runs bitchin. Plenty of power, no hiccups, gets decent fuel mileage for what it is. When done correctly, they are fine.
I wouldn't just automatically throw it away.

Similar experience with my EV. Before the PC mileage was around 36 mpg, drivability terrible. With the PC mileage went up to around 46, no glitches, and it pulled cleanly from around 1500 rpms. This is not a Power Commander problem.

Pete

Online Huzo

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Re: Power Commander help
« Reply #23 on: April 17, 2020, 10:16:31 PM »
Well that sounds fair enough..

Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Power Commander help
« Reply #24 on: April 18, 2020, 06:13:02 AM »
When I said
Quote
When done correctly, they are fine.
I should have added "on these old controllers like the Mighty Scura and EV has." I'm sure the newer stuff is an entirely different kettle of fish.
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal

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Online PeteS

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Re: Power Commander help
« Reply #25 on: April 18, 2020, 07:30:32 AM »
Yep, a PC was about the way to cure the bikes of the '90s with the big computers and chip programs. The P8 on the EV and whatever they called the one on the Sport 1100s. The 4 valvers like the Centauro were even worse. I tried two different chips and they only helped a small part of the rev band at the cost of mileage. The later bikes were better and I guess you could talk to them with a programmer but I don't know much about them.

Pete
« Last Edit: April 18, 2020, 07:31:48 AM by PeteS »

Online rschrum

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Re: Power Commander help
« Reply #26 on: April 18, 2020, 09:43:08 AM »
I have Creedon chips in my Centauro and sport i. They both run flawlessly throughout the rev range. They do have the other recommended modifications, intake, exhaust, TB balance. I have never checked fuel mileage on a motorcycle, when they need fuel, I fill them up.
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Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Power Commander help
« Reply #27 on: April 18, 2020, 11:44:54 AM »
I had a Creedon chip in my Centauro, too. It also ran flawlessly.. after a couple of years of tinkering with it.  :grin:
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal

02 Scura RC
87 AeroLario
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95 Skorpion tour
 
I think senility is going to be a fairly smooth transition for me..

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Re: Power Commander help
« Reply #28 on: April 18, 2020, 03:23:08 PM »
I had a Creedon chip in my Centauro, too. It also ran flawlessly.. after a couple of years of tinkering with it.  :grin:

 Any Centauro that will accelerate like your old one with 260 LBS of Storm Truck on it is indeed running flawlessly  :shocked: :laugh:

 Dusty

Online rschrum

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Re: Power Commander help
« Reply #29 on: April 18, 2020, 07:41:21 PM »
You have more patience than I do. I just called up Will, got his recipe and applied it.
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