Author Topic: V7 Break-In Service (Oil Change/Sump Spacer/H Bolts/Valves/Clutch Adj etc)  (Read 61274 times)

Offline Loftness

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Just wanted to chime in on the clutch discussion.  The Stones ship with a lot of play in the lever, for whatever reason, and shops are supposed to tighten significantly for the initial prep.  When done correctly there should be almost no play in the lever.  I suspect this hasn't been done for a few folks, hence the concern with shifting a few people have reported.  I don't have an exact number for tightening, but when I get mine spaced correctly I'll report back.  Mine is close enough now though to confidently click through the gears, which it didn't do 'out of the box'. 

One additional note is that it does seem to require a warm up period (on each ride) before it will shift correctly.  It's cold here though so I'll have to see how that changes as we (finally, hopefully) see warmer weather. 

Also just to confirm another comment on this thread, the black Stones ship with Metzeler Lazertechs and the white Stones ship with Pirelli Sport Demons (like the Racers).  Not sure why the split within the same model.
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Offline Muzz

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I am with Pfaff. I have yet to replace the O ring and gasket and it has yet to leak. I am VERY prudent with the tension on the bolt. Actually, I probably have a spare O ring but don't have a gasket. So far I have used the straw method to get TDC and get the back of the cam to set the clearances. Mine have always opened up, never closed up, and the right side always gets more loose than the left. ???

Always take the two sump bungs out. Had to by a special socket for one of them as it is obviously not a standard metric head that came with my Koken set. Got a cheapie socket set off our local Trademe site for about the same price as a single socket; It had the correct size in it and it also had 6 sided sockets in it which I like.
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I appreciate the additional input gentlemen.  ;-T
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Offline jas67

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One additional note is that it does seem to require a warm up period (on each ride) before it will shift correctly.  It's cold here though so I'll have to see how that changes as we (finally, hopefully) see warmer weather. 
That'll improve as it breaks in.
Also just to confirm another comment on this thread, the black Stones ship with Metzeler Lazertechs and the white Stones ship with Pirelli Sport Demons (like the Racers).  Not sure why the split within the same model.
Hmmmm  ???
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That'll improve as it breaks in.Hmmmm  ???

Hey JAY - check out my clutch thread - I forget - does YOURS RATTLE like a big block or is it silent like my Stone?
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Offline Bob Wegman

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Last week I had the alternator wires melt at the junction block.  To run the additional ground wire to the rectifier/regulator I needed to remove the fuel tank.  Anyway, I used to block the tank up with a piece of 2 X 4 wood, which was kind if in the way of the fuel line connector when disconnecting.  So, a better idea struck me and it works better for me than the hunk of wood. I just reinstall the rear fuel tank bolt in its hole and let the fuel tank rest on the top of the bolt.  This also eliminates the need to scrounge a piece of wood from somewhere if you need to remove the tank on the side of the road or something.  A longer bolt would allow even more access also.
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Offline Pfaff!

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Hey JAY - check out my clutch thread - I forget - does YOURS RATTLE like a big block or is it silent like my Stone?

Smallblocks rattle the smallblock way, NOT the big block way.  ;)

Your V7 probably do rattle. Use earplugs and the "problem" is solved.  :P
(I do  ;D )
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Also check you clear air box drain hose. If it has oil in it either the motor had to much oil in it and the extra pumped out. Or one of the vent hose from the heads is pinched. On my bike after every decent ride the drain hose would have a couple ounces of oil in it. When looking around I four a vent hose pinched. Gave it better placement and for the last couple thousand miles no oil in the air box/drain.

So before this past weekend's little tour (out to western PA) I was checking out the V7 and looking for the breather lines and I THINK I might have discovered another difference between the 2TB and 1TB models.

I followed the breather lines to the air box, and the two oil drain lines from the box where they disappear behind the starter. Now it's tight back there and the are other hoses and cables back there, but it LOOKS like the breather drains attach to a T and then a single return line runs to the crankcase above the sump.

If I'm right in identifying these lines then it might help explain why the new smallblocks don't seem to lose oil like the old ones did when run at highway speeds for long periods. Because they are recovering any that is carried to the breathers. Though it would still have to be that it just isn't burning it either.

For instance just a little shy of 1k miles this weekend (and an entire day on the PA tpke today) with no oil usage.
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Re: V7 Break-In Service (Oil Change/Sump Spacer/H Bolts/Valves/Clutch Adj etc)
« Reply #38 on: September 23, 2013, 12:08:17 PM »
Hmmm, maybe I've got this all wrong - is that a one-way valve in the common crankcase line?

http://www.harpermoto.com/parts-by-motorcycle.html

http://www.harpermoto.com/parts-by-motorcycle/2010-2020-moto-guzzis/v7-special-stone-750-2012-2013/air-box-en-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10-11-12-13-14-15-16-17-18-19-20-21-22-23-24-25-26-27-28.html



And there are breather filter elements in the air box - wonder if they are ever supposed to be replaced?
« Last Edit: September 23, 2013, 12:10:54 PM by Kev m »
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Offline jas67

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Re: V7 Break-In Service (Oil Change/Sump Spacer/H Bolts/Valves/Clutch Adj etc)
« Reply #39 on: September 23, 2013, 02:13:25 PM »
Hey JAY - check out my clutch thread - I forget - does YOURS RATTLE like a big block or is it silent like my Stone?

I know this was asked a while ago, but just now saw it.

Yes, it rattles, just not quite as loud.   Also, the Breva 1100 rattles with the clutch lever pulled, where the V7's rattles with the transmission in neutral and the clutch lever released (but not when pulled).

« Last Edit: September 23, 2013, 02:14:43 PM by jas67 »
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I know this was asked a while ago, but just now saw it.

Yes, it rattles, just not quite as loud.   Also, the Breva 1100 rattles with the clutch lever pulled, where the V7's rattles with the transmission in neutral and the clutch lever released (but not when pulled).

I would say it's totally different then :D
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iya0yas

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Re: V7 Break-In Service (Oil Change/Sump Spacer/H Bolts/Valves/Clutch Adj etc)
« Reply #41 on: September 25, 2013, 08:16:59 PM »
Thanks for all the info. everyone...!

There's been a lot of discussion regarding service procedures and spec's. but what about fluid brand/type?  I have a '13 V7R and Micheal Lee, the Guzzi CS rep. I spoke with (regarding my record kit), suggested staying with Agip Eni brand lubricants.  Unfortunately, most dealers including the one and only MG dealer here in NC doesn't carry this brand.  I'm sure with a bit of searching on the web I can source Eni but am wondering what most folks here on the forum recommend...? 





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I think that's cause there are way too many threads around here already discussing oils :D

For the record I stuck with AGIP for the motor, but bought something local for the gear oils.
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Offline Pfaff!

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I think that's cause there are way too many threads around here already discussing oils :D

For the record I stuck with AGIP for the motor, but bought something local for the gear oils.


No, no, no Kev. No Agip anymore. It's ENI these days.  ;)
Anders Holt

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No, no, no Kev. No Agip anymore. It's ENI these days.  ;)

Not if you still have a case of bottles labeled AGIP...  :BEER:
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Offline Pfaff!

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Not if you still have a case of bottles labeled AGIP...  :BEER:

Oh! Late bottled vintage! Yessir!
Anders Holt

Breva V 750 ie "Rossinante" '03. Running fine ever since. Sold.
Pushing bikes these days.

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Offline kwn306

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Re: V7 Break-In Service (Oil Change/Sump Spacer/H Bolts/Valves/Clutch Adj etc)
« Reply #46 on: September 26, 2013, 11:57:38 AM »
OK folks please don't shoot me...............

What weight oil goes in the motor of a 2013 V7 Stone?

I'm thinking about purchasing one.
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Re: V7 Break-In Service (Oil Change/Sump Spacer/H Bolts/Valves/Clutch Adj etc)
« Reply #47 on: September 26, 2013, 12:03:56 PM »
What weight oil goes in the motor of a 2013 V7 Stone?

10/60 is the recommendation, like I believe with ALL late-model Guzzis since the hydro Cali went away.
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Re: V7 Break-In Service (Oil Change/Sump Spacer/H Bolts/Valves/Clutch Adj etc)
« Reply #48 on: October 25, 2013, 08:03:45 AM »
My MAINT light came on more than a bit early (about 1500 miles early) according to the Maintenance Schedules for the 2012/2013 1TB models.

http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=64986.0

Not fully realizing the light was so early I pulled the bike in the shop yesterday to get the service done.

I'd already changed the engine oil early because Jay had needed to steal the oil filter cover. So I figured I just needed to do valves, trans/drive oils, lube some levers/cable ends, and check various things.

But to my surprise (see thread link) the 2013 maintenance schedule is a bit different from the earlier models and I may not have to do any of that yet.

I went ahead with the valves anyway and found them all a bit wide (maybe 002-003" wider than spec).

I also was glad I checked the spark plugs because they were WAY WIDE like 034-040" instead of 024-027" or so of the spec. MENTAL NOTE PEOPLE, check those plugs on the next service and maybe have spares at hand. I regapped them and will probably use them till the next service (as long as they don't start to miss in the meantime). But still, it's probably a good idea for me to buy a spare set now and have them handy for that reason (you all might want to do the same).


EDIT - just noticed the maintenance schedule actually says to REPLACE the SPARK PLUGS every 10,000km/6000miles - I'm SHOCKED, but THAT EXPLAINS IT. Maybe I'll get a set and throw them in by 6k.


I'm happy to report pulling the front cover was simple this time (thanks to replaced and/or cleaned bolts).

The timing marks I made on the alternator rotor and front of the motor were PERFECT - took me seconds to align each cylinder to TDC.

So life is good.

I just have to decide what maintenance schedule I'm going to follow here on out.

RIDE SAFE!

Kev



« Last Edit: October 25, 2013, 08:07:59 AM by Kev m »
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Offline pyoungbl

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Re: V7 Break-In Service (Oil Change/Sump Spacer/H Bolts/Valves/Clutch Adj etc)
« Reply #49 on: October 25, 2013, 08:59:38 AM »
Kev, did you notice that the labor times are lower for most services on the single TB units...as much as 30% lower?  So, not only are the service intervals longer now but a shop visit should be less expensive.  Heck, even the more expensive services are 130 minutes so basically two hours shop time.  Throw in some parts cost and you can get away with about $250 for a dealer service.  Sweet!  Now I think back to my Ducati....

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Re: V7 Break-In Service (Oil Change/Sump Spacer/H Bolts/Valves/Clutch Adj etc)
« Reply #50 on: October 25, 2013, 09:01:33 AM »
Kev, did you notice that the labor times are lower for most services on the single TB units...as much as 30% lower?  So, not only are the service intervals longer now but a shop visit should be less expensive. 

I hadn't compared them, but it makes sense both from an ease of service position (like the air cleaner that is easily accessed under the seat) to the fact that in some of those services they are doing less (like NOT changing the transmission/drive fluids).

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Offline sib

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Re: V7 Break-In Service (Oil Change/Sump Spacer/H Bolts/Valves/Clutch Adj etc)
« Reply #51 on: October 25, 2013, 04:48:31 PM »
I'll confirm that there are different tires and shocks on the white and black V7 Stones.  Also that the clutch cable ships too loose.
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I'll confirm that there are different tires and shocks on the white and black V7 Stones.  Also that the clutch cable ships too loose.

oohh, tell me more...tell us more...

What tires? What shocks?
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Re: V7 Break-In Service (Oil Change/Sump Spacer/H Bolts/Valves/Clutch Adj etc)
« Reply #53 on: November 02, 2013, 12:59:19 PM »
My MAINT light came on more than a bit early (about 1500 miles early) according to the Maintenance Schedules for the 2012/2013 1TB models.

http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=64986.0

Not fully realizing the light was so early I pulled the bike in the shop yesterday to get the service done.

I'd already changed the engine oil early because Jay had needed to steal the oil filter cover. So I figured I just needed to do valves, trans/drive oils, lube some levers/cable ends, and check various things.

But to my surprise (see thread link) the 2013 maintenance schedule is a bit different from the earlier models and I may not have to do any of that yet.

I went ahead with the valves anyway and found them all a bit wide (maybe 002-003" wider than spec).

I also was glad I checked the spark plugs because they were WAY WIDE like 034-040" instead of 024-027" or so of the spec. MENTAL NOTE PEOPLE, check those plugs on the next service and maybe have spares at hand. I regapped them and will probably use them till the next service (as long as they don't start to miss in the meantime). But still, it's probably a good idea for me to buy a spare set now and have them handy for that reason (you all might want to do the same).


EDIT - just noticed the maintenance schedule actually says to REPLACE the SPARK PLUGS every 10,000km/6000miles - I'm SHOCKED, but THAT EXPLAINS IT. Maybe I'll get a set and throw them in by 6k.


I'm happy to report pulling the front cover was simple this time (thanks to replaced and/or cleaned bolts).

The timing marks I made on the alternator rotor and front of the motor were PERFECT - took me seconds to align each cylinder to TDC.

So life is good.

I just have to decide what maintenance schedule I'm going to follow here on out.

RIDE SAFE!

Kev






Finally got an opportunity to sneak out for a ride (first time on the V7 since I adjusted those valves).

 :o :o :o

WOW, what a difference!

Now keep in mind the weather was about PERFECT, a crisp/cool 60F and beautiful dry sunny fall morning.

The bike just ran SPLENDID.

I have to wonder, could slightly wide valves been contributing to the cold start behavior??? (Just a SWAG because it didn't hunt/stumble/die this morning at all).

But then again, it was doing it before the first service when I found the valves all tight so I dunno  ???
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Re: V7 Break-In Service (Oil Change/Sump Spacer/H Bolts/Valves/Clutch Adj etc)
« Reply #54 on: November 04, 2013, 08:36:01 AM »
Just bumping cause I like this photo... and cause I wanted to make sure people saw comments about valve adjustment and spark plugs.

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Offline jas67

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Re: V7 Break-In Service (Oil Change/Sump Spacer/H Bolts/Valves/Clutch Adj etc)
« Reply #55 on: November 04, 2013, 02:43:22 PM »
Just bumping cause I like this photo... and cause I wanted to make sure people saw comments about valve adjustment and spark plugs.

RIDE SAFE ALL



Nice pic!
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Offline nickthehoss

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Re: V7 Break-In Service (Oil Change/Sump Spacer/H Bolts/Valves/Clutch Adj etc)
« Reply #56 on: November 07, 2013, 10:17:15 PM »
Hi,

I just performed my 600 mile service on my new 2013 V7 Special. I was pleased to encounter this post because there seems to be no official manuals available for this bike yet. This being my first Guzzi, I was (and am) excited to do the service myself. Since the service, the bike runs better than ever. Going into the service on a brand new bike without the official information was a bit sketchy, but I went with all the values listed in this thread, and like I said, the bike runs and feels even better. So I thought I'd share my experience.

1. Changed all fluids as suggested in the manual. No problem there. I replaced the crush washers as they were supplied with the APIG oils provided in the kits (I ordered the change-kits from AF1 Racing). Changing the oil filter was interesting- its nice how concealed it is but somewhat messy taking out -be prepared with lots of rags and clean off the oil pan thoroughly with Simple Green and clean rags after. Also, I fashioned a funnel with a plastic tube to fill the transmission and final drives and that worked great.

2. In adjusting the valves, I went with 006 & 008 as listed in this thread. All 4 valves were tight according to the tech I was working with -so we loosened them all slightly -but to 006 & 008. There were no torque values (that I could find) for the valve covers so I did that by feel -I wish I knew those, anyone have any info on that? -that said no leaks 4 days later.

I found it strange in removing the plastic front panel to turn the engine as lock-tite was used on those bolts. Not sure why this was done since removing this place is essential to move the piston. Any thoughts on that?

3. In re-torquing the heads both the tech and I were surprised on how loose they were. I don't have experience here but all the bolts were at different values so I went with 31 on the 4 main bolts and 21 on the center bolt. We felt confident as the bolts continued to tighten up but I'd say that they were all loose and some by 8# -again, a bit sketchy, I thought they all be tight or loose by 1 # or something.

4. I adjusted the clutch. It was too close to the grip and sometimes I wasn't convinced I was disengaged even when I pinned the lever against the grip. A lot better now.

My first bike was an EX 500 and I am thrilled with the new V7- I love the way its now running after this service. Thanks to everyone who wrote in on this thread. Very helpful!

-Nick
« Last Edit: November 08, 2013, 12:04:25 AM by nickthehoss »

Offline jas67

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Re: V7 Break-In Service (Oil Change/Sump Spacer/H Bolts/Valves/Clutch Adj etc)
« Reply #57 on: November 08, 2013, 05:37:31 AM »
I found it strange in removing the plastic front panel to turn the engine as lock-tite was used on those bolts. Not sure why this was done since removing this place is essential to move the piston. Any thoughts on that?

That lock-tite is there for a reason, as fasteners like to loosen up on these bikes.    You should use a little blue lock-tite when putting those bolts back in.   I use lock-tite on almost all fasteners on my Guzzis with the exception of any ny-lock type locknuts.

I've never actually pulled the front cover to turn the engine.   I just remove the spark plugs, put the transmission into high gear and turn the rear wheel to turn the engine.    I've done this on both my V7C and my Breva 1100.
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1974 Eldorado
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Re: V7 Break-In Service (Oil Change/Sump Spacer/H Bolts/Valves/Clutch Adj etc)
« Reply #58 on: November 08, 2013, 07:42:51 AM »
Hey Nick - welcome and glad to meet ya.

Let me try and answer what I can.

Answers in RED

Hi,

I just performed my 600 mile service on my new 2013 V7 Special. I was pleased to encounter this post because there seems to be no official manuals available for this bike yet. Actually, there are manuals available at least in PDF, you need the V7C manual for much of the motor and most of the basic chassis that didn't change, then you need the new Stone/Special/Racer manual for anything that is new to the 1TB models. I forget if Greg Bender's website or Guzzitech has them yet, but one of them should.


This being my first Guzzi, I was (and am) excited to do the service myself. Since the service, the bike runs better than ever. Going into the service on a brand new bike without the official information was a bit sketchy, FWIW the specs I used in this thread come from dealer techs who post here on WG. but I went with all the values listed in this thread, and like I said, the bike runs and feels even better. So I thought I'd share my experience.

1. Changed all fluids as suggested in the manual. No problem there. I replaced the crush washers as they were supplied with the APIG oils provided in the kits (I ordered the change-kits from AF1 Racing). Changing the oil filter was interesting- its nice how concealed it is but somewhat messy taking out -be prepared with lots of rags and clean off the oil pan thoroughly with Simple Green and clean rags after. Also, I fashioned a funnel with a plastic tube to fill the transmission and final drives and that worked great.

2. In adjusting the valves, I went with 006 & 008 as listed in this thread. All 4 valves were tight according to the tech I was working with -so we loosened them all slightly -but to 006 & 008. There were no torque values (that I could find) for the valve covers so I did that by feel -I wish I knew those, anyone have any info on that? -that said no leaks 4 days later. I've not bothered with torque values for things like the valve cover, or oil filter cover, ask JAS67 about the later, he used the value in the book and cracked the cover - either his torque wrench is out of calibration or the value is bad. Actually, I've always found that the method of technical information distribution used by the European manufacturers leaves a lot to be desired. I.E. they write a manual for a new bike or car, then years later write a new one once they have enough differences. And that can happen multiple times. Problem is that means you have to look at multiple ones each time to know you didn't miss a change, and WORST is that IF there is a change sometimes it either doesn't get documented or you can't get your hands on the update so you don't know about it. For instance I KNOW there are torque values in my Ducati 696 manual that disagree with the owner's manual. Problem is the tech manual was written in 2009 and my bike is a 2011 and I KNOW some of the fasteners changed. So I got out of the habit long ago of trying to get torque values for things like the valve cover, oil filter cover, drain plugs etc. I just grasp the head of the ratchet and snug.

I found it strange in removing the plastic front panel to turn the engine as lock-tite was used on those bolts. Not sure why this was done since removing this place is essential to move the piston. Any thoughts on that? Well, it's not ESSENTIAL to turning the motor, you CAN certainly lift it and turn the motor with the rear wheel, but I don't like that method personally and really prefer using the nut on the front of the crank. NO IDEA why they put threadlock THAT strong on those bolts. I wound up replacing two of them that bent under the force of loosening them. That said, I DON'T REMEMBER if I added threadlock to the new ones or not? almost 5k later none of them had loosened again though. Obviously there's no harm in using some blue/medium strength Loctite on them to be sure. If you didn't replace them I suspect the remnants of the old threadlock will probably keep them tight. But if you're unsure, no big deal, just check them after maybe 500 miles and 1000 miles to be sure.

3. In re-torquing the heads both the tech and I were surprised on how loose they were. I don't have experience here but all the bolts were at different values so I went with 31 on the 4 main bolts and 21 on the center bolt. We felt confident as the bolts continued to tighten up but I'd say that they were all loose and some by 8# -again, a bit sketchy, I thought they all be tight or loose by 1 # or something. (I can't remember now if Pete said he usually finds them loose or tight, but I THINK I remember whatever he said, I found the opposite  :BEER: not that I was worried about it).

4. I adjusted the clutch. It was too close to the grip and sometimes I wasn't convinced I was disengaged even when I pinned the lever against the grip. A lot better now. That sounds familiar.

Current Fleet

18 Guzzi V7III Carbon Dark
13 Guzzi V7 Stone
11 Duc M696

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Re: V7 Break-In Service (Oil Change/Sump Spacer/H Bolts/Valves/Clutch Adj etc)
« Reply #59 on: November 08, 2013, 07:45:43 AM »
That lock-tite is there for a reason, as fasteners like to loosen up on these bikes.    You should use a little blue lock-tite when putting those bolts back in.   I use lock-tite on almost all fasteners on my Guzzis with the exception of any ny-lock type locknuts.

I dunno man. Maybe there was a reason, but whatever they put on the 1TB front cover bolts was RIDICULOUS. I've never bent screws from threadlock before.

I would remove the front cover just to get to that stuff now before they cement themselves in forever.


I've never actually pulled the front cover to turn the engine.   I just remove the spark plugs, put the transmission into high gear and turn the rear wheel to turn the engine.    I've done this on both my V7C and my Breva 1100.

DUDE, on the Breva, there's a small plastic cover that pops out with access to the crankshaft nut. You don't even have to remove the cover.

AND, if memory serves, I probably made marks in Sharpie on the thing to help you find TDC.

I made marks like that on the crankshaft rotor fins and the front cover of the V7 Stone at first service and it took me seconds to find TDC using them this time around.
Current Fleet

18 Guzzi V7III Carbon Dark
13 Guzzi V7 Stone
11 Duc M696

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