Help me understand California Vintage vs California V11 EV

[kirkkw]

I am looking to buy my first Guzzi and while the Norge hits my instinct for Sport Touring, I want to pursue a cruiser styled California.

So I am looking at the California Vintage bikes say 2010 or a V11EV 2003 or 2004.
 
Do these bikes have the same engine, fuel injection, performance, handling etc.

Any and all advice is welcome!!!

 ;-T

Ken

[fotoguzzi]

The ev has tubeless rims, vintage has steel rims that need tubes.
Vintage motor a little more refined but I'd get an ev or bassa

[190 Octane]

Handling will be the basically the same.  I know EV came with an adjustable front suspension, I'm not sure about the vintage.  Most here upgrade the rear shocks and fork springs on either model.

If its an EV, or any California model, made from 2003 to 2004 it will have hydraulic lifters.  All of the Californias made prior to 2003 and after 2004 have solid lifters.

[harrytief]

I have an '08 california vintage with tubless rims from an '03. I upgraded the suspension with Gazi hyperX shocks and Matris adjustable fork dampers. The oem Metzlers were replaced with Michelin Activ and the brake rotors and pads upgraded. The beach bars where replaced with a set from a stone and the windshield gave way to a Pacifico AERO fairing that CURED buffeting. These bikes are the last of the Tontis and can be made to really rock. I bought the calvin because I hoped the planned changes would get me a bike that together with the "upgraded " engine would last me a lifetime. I have not been disappointed. I have two cx100's, a w650, and two eldo/ambassador projects that languish because this calvin tops out the smiles per mile meter.
I may have done the same with an older EV at a lesser initial purchase price back in 2008 but today, with the delta price between the two much less, get the calvin if only for the engine.
Harry

[wildduck]

There was a lot of variants in the Tonti frame family in that time frame, just not a lot of motorcycles built and/or for sale at any given time, unless if you are willing to travel for the right bike. I would like a nice 2003-4 hydraulic tappet EV with the tubeless Aluminum rims, a factory fairing and the HB bags with color matched inserts but I want to be smarter and better looking too.

Good luck,

John

This one has been at the dealer in VA for a month or so, looks like a nice one to me.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Moto-Guzzi-2004-moto-guzzi-california-1100-ev-moto-guzzi-california-/181499368207?forcerrptr=true&hash=item2a4234930f&item=181499368207&pt=US_motorcycles

[Bill Hagan]

I may be wrong, and don't claim to know, but I thought that the most significant difference was that the Calvin had a B11 engine and alternator, no?

If so, that is a big deal over prior Cali's.

Bill

[LowRyter]

......having ridden the Calvin and owning an EV:

EV Handles better
Calvin has a little more power and shifts better

EV has a taller seat with a little more leg room but Calvin puts feet a little closer to the ground.

and all the mechanical differences noted.

[fotoguzzi]

The b11 alternator won't fit in the tonti frame.

[Cam3512]

Having owned an '03 Stone Hydro and an '09 Calvin...

Calvin has a better engine, and better looks.  Last of the Tontis.

[Semper-guzzi]

I've never had a Calvin, but my 03 aluminum engine was silky smooth no matter the rpm. I've a y2k jackal now, still great, just louder valves and not as smooth at lower rpms. But who spends time below 4k anyways 😈

[Sheepdog]

 I'm another satisfied Vintage owner. It has been absolutely steadfast and I enjoy it every ride. There are differences...refin ements...that it has over older models, but the truth is that they have far more in common with older injected Tontis than differences. Pick your price point and find the best Cali your budget can handle. I doubt that you'll be disappointed.

[kirkkw]

Thanks for all the input, think I am headed in the Calvin direction for 2 reasons: newer and potentially smoother more powerful engine.

I just missed (last month) a 2010 with 5k miles for $7650 in San Antonio. 

Ken

[rocker59]

I may be wrong, and don't claim to know, but I thought that the most significant difference was that the Calvin had a B11 engine and alternator, no?

If so, that is a big deal over prior Cali's.

Bill

Breva 1100 guts in the older block.

Nose-mounted alternator.

[Wayne Orwig]

I may be wrong, and don't claim to know, but I thought that the most significant difference was that the Calvin had a B11 engine and alternator, no?

Nope.

You can't get a B11 alternator in a Tonti. The Vintage has the same alternator as has been used for years.
The only major change is the dual plugged head. Close to the same as the Breva/Norge/Griso two valve heads.

Too bad they didn't have the smoother hydraulic valve system.

[Wayne Orwig]

Thanks for all the input, think I am headed in the Calvin direction for 2 reasons: newer and potentially smoother more powerful engine.

Why do you say smoother?

[Sheepdog]

I have found that the Vintage pulls cleanly at lower rpms when compared with older Cali's. It's not a huge difference; it feels pretty good as low as 2800. However, some FI tweaking is required to correct excessive lean-ness in the closed loop portion of the FI map...

[harrytief]

I am quite fond of the "character" of the calvin engine and can say that it is smoother and more tractable as miles pile up. Should I be worried?
Harry

[bpreynolds]

I've now owned 4 different Calis, 2 Hydros and 2 solids.  And I've ridden a Vintage.  IMHO, the so called "performance" and "smoothness" differences noted here are so small as to be non-factors, especially when the Vintage is compared with a hydro motor.  What's is a real factor, however, are those wonderful tubeless tires on the EV.  But yeah, if I was choosing between the two I dunno what I'd get as the Vintage is just one of the best looking cruisers Guzzi ever made.  I guess I'd just choose the better looking bike, my Stone Touring that is.  ;)

[rocker59]

One can always add the tubeless wheels of an EV to a Vintage.  They're the same bike, after all.

[bpreynolds]

One can always add the tubeless wheels of an EV to a Vintage.  They're the same bike, after all.

Just asking.  What does a pair of EV wheels run ya on Ebay or generally?

[190 Octane]

Just asking.  What does a pair of EV wheels run ya on Ebay or generally?

When they come up on ebay, they seem to be $300-$400 a wheel. 

I'd like to have tubeless wheels for my Titanium.  I think I may need spaces also to make the tubeless wheels fit correctly.

[kirkkw]

Handling will be the basically the same.  I know EV came with an adjustable front suspension, I'm not sure about the vintage.  Most here upgrade the rear shocks and fork springs on either model.

If its an EV, or any California model, made from 2003 to 2004 it will have hydraulic lifters.  All of the Californias made prior to 2003 and after 2004 have solid lifters.

I just bought a 2004 EV through eBay.  So I assume it has hydraulic lifters.  Since I am new to Guzzis I must ask - does that mean that the bike will not require the 6K valve adjustment or whatever the normal valve adjust spec is for a Guzzi.

[kirkkw]

There was a lot of variants in the Tonti frame family in that time frame, just not a lot of motorcycles built and/or for sale at any given time, unless if you are willing to travel for the right bike. I would like a nice 2003-4 hydraulic tappet EV with the tubeless Aluminum rims, a factory fairing and the HB bags with color matched inserts but I want to be smarter and better looking too.

Good luck,

John

This one has been at the dealer in VA for a month or so, looks like a nice one to me.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Moto-Guzzi-2004-moto-guzzi-california-1100-ev-moto-guzzi-california-/181499368207?forcerrptr=true&hash=item2a4234930f&item=181499368207&pt=US_motorcycles

John, I bought it.  After watching the video I was a little over the top.  I think it was a little more than 2004 Calis normally sell for on eBay, but this one had new tires, full service. and the problematic speedo change already done. 

My wife reach over my shoulder and hit "Buy it now" - who am I to question her actions.

Ken

[rocker59]

I just bought a 2004 EV through eBay.  So I assume it has hydraulic lifters.  Since I am new to Guzzis I must ask - does that mean that the bike will not require the 6K valve adjustment or whatever the normal valve adjust spec is for a Guzzi.

Correct.  Hydraulic lifters mean no 6,000 mile valve adjustment.

Note that the recommended oil is 5w-40 synthetic for these engines.

[Wayne Orwig]

I just bought a 2004 EV through eBay.  So I assume it has hydraulic lifters.  Since I am new to Guzzis I must ask - does that mean that the bike will not require the 6K valve adjustment or whatever the normal valve adjust spec is for a Guzzi.

Assuming that it truly received a cam update, you are good. Go ride, add fuel change oil as needed.

[kirkkw]

Correct.  Hydraulic lifters mean no 6,000 mile valve adjustment.

Note that the recommended oil is 5w-40 synthetic for these engines.

Ok that is good to know - somehow I got the impression that 60 weight oil was recommended.    ???

[rocker59]

Ok that is good to know - somehow I got the impression that 60 weight oil was recommended.    ???

10w60 is for the newer bikes, 2006-on.

The hydro engines were short-lived.  2003-2004 in the USA.

[Semper-guzzi]

I had an 03 Cali aluminum. I ran the shell Rotella oil from Walmart. It was a super quiet engine, butt loads of torque but easily managed. That engine was definitely sweet. I miss it. Not that my new jackal is bad, it's awesome too, the hydro engine was just the shiz.

On a side note. That top case is huge. I'm jealous.

[arveno]

Here you can find a  "cheap" one


http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/mcy/4585495142.html

[Wayne Orwig]

10w60 is for the newer bikes, 2006-on.

The hydro engines were short-lived.  2003-2004 in the USA.

He means they model line was short lived.
Mine is still alive at 113,000 miles. A lot of that towing a camper.