Author Topic: Cali 1100i - de-cruiserfication winter project  (Read 7805 times)

Orange Guzzi

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Re: Cali 1100i - de-cruiserfication winter project
« Reply #30 on: December 03, 2016, 03:24:49 PM »
I couldn't see a F.B group for wildguzzi... got a link?

I thought about using the oem foot pegs - when riding i joked to myself it was comfier to use the rear pegs than the boards, but thought they were a bit too bulky - and turns out a little too far rearward...

Thankfully the footpegs I managed to find came with the brake lever and the gear shifter so hopefully all the big purchases are done... well, maybe some new rear shocks.... we'll see... good to know the spine frame guzzis share parts... I was limiting my ebay searching to tonti bits and bobs...

cheers dave, to be honest, from the start i knew i wanted a v7 tank (i'd have bought a v7 if it wasn't for the cost of them, and the fact i wanted a big block) So i decided to make it look like one instead  :wink: I like the simple lines of the old classic guzzi's and hope it ends up looking as good as one. If i get a little excited every time i walk back to her when i've stopped on a ride, i'll have succeeded.

(and yes, i do like going into the garage and just sit there looking how she's coming along  :wink: was the same with the Duc and v50 when they were coming along too)

Moto Guzzi National Owners Group on F.B.


Offline Andy B

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Re: Cali 1100i - de-cruiserfication winter project
« Reply #31 on: December 22, 2016, 03:00:09 PM »
Moto Guzzi National Owners Group on F.B.

Joined  :wink:

Have a few more updates - booked this past week off work (needed to use up my holiday allowance), and so far got a fair bit done :)

So i got the frame and engine split


there was a fair bit of oil from the bottom of the bell housing, so i wanted to investigate. After posting about my 'oil leak' in a different thread I found the culprit....

I found a pool of fresh looking oil on the very top of the rear crank bearing housing, and remembered the previous owner mention, not long before he sold it, the braided oil feed hoses failed and spewed oil all over the top of the crank cases.... as such, looks like it has flowed into the bell housing causing said mess...


thankfully clutch was unaffected by the oil slick, and was pleased to see he wasn't telling tall tales when said the clutch was also recently replaced  :thumb:



then disaster! The clutch arm was proper stiff!! like, almost seized... you couldn't move it by hand without a bit of extra leverage... no wonder the clutch was showing signs of drag... so whilst getting the arm pin out, after tapping out half way - POP!  after failing to find a replacement, I took it to a local guy i know who can weld ali, and he did a nice job of it...



Also, whilst they were off, I got my yokes vapour blasted :)



Whilst waiting for the ali welding, decided it was time to clean the engine, 5 or so hours of cleaning and prep before painting and she came up really nice..

 

Once the welding had been done, gearbox to match


the same guy who did the welding has sandblasting equipment (amongst his alladins cave of engineering tools) so got him to do my lower rails before I got the grinder to the foot board mounts..



Tomorrows job, seat mounts on the frame, and make a mounting bracket for the rear fender... at least there's some good prrogress :)

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Re: Cali 1100i - de-cruiserfication winter project
« Reply #32 on: December 22, 2016, 04:01:30 PM »
I found a pool of fresh looking oil on the very top of the rear crank bearing housing, and remembered the previous owner mention, not long before he sold it, the braided oil feed hoses failed and spewed oil all over the top of the crank cases.... as such, looks like it has flowed into the bell housing causing said mess...

thankfully clutch was unaffected by the oil slick, and was pleased to see he wasn't telling tall tales when said the clutch was also recently replaced  :thumb:

If it were me, I'd make sure that it wasn't going to leak by replacing the gaskets (main bearing flange and breather pipe), applying JB Weld to the cam plug and sealing the two lower bolts of the main bearing flange. Otherwise you risk that the blown oil line wasn't the only cause of the oily mess.

I'm not a fan of those "spoked" clutch plates - I've seen more than a few fracture at the "spokes".
« Last Edit: December 22, 2016, 04:04:11 PM by Antietam Classic Cycle »
Charlie
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Re: Cali 1100i - de-cruiserfication winter project
« Reply #33 on: December 22, 2016, 04:27:10 PM »
[I'm not a fan of those "spoked" clutch plates - I've seen more than a few fracture at the "spokes".] Thanks for pointing that out , Charlie. Have done a couple too many clutch jobs myself due to factory installed spoke type clutch discs.
1975 750S Tribute bike, 1994 Cali 1100, 2007 Ducati GT1000, 1983 SP1000 1967 Vespa SS180

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Re: Cali 1100i - de-cruiserfication winter project
« Reply #33 on: December 22, 2016, 04:27:10 PM »

Offline Rick4003

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Re: Cali 1100i - de-cruiserfication winter project
« Reply #34 on: December 22, 2016, 11:15:46 PM »
Looks good Andy!

I really need to build myself a vapour blaster. That finish is hard to beat! :grin:


 

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oldbike54

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Re: Cali 1100i - de-cruiserfication winter project
« Reply #35 on: December 22, 2016, 11:54:02 PM »
 Great thread Andy  :bow:

 Dusty

Offline Andy B

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Re: Cali 1100i - de-cruiserfication winter project
« Reply #36 on: December 23, 2016, 01:50:56 PM »
Cheers guys, i'm quite enjoying the build so far... nice to look back through the photos too... been a few that have sparked ideas i hadn't thought off too which is handy...

If it were me, I'd make sure that it wasn't going to leak by replacing the gaskets (main bearing flange and breather pipe), applying JB Weld to the cam plug and sealing the two lower bolts of the main bearing flange. Otherwise you risk that the blown oil line wasn't the only cause of the oily mess.

I'm not a fan of those "spoked" clutch plates - I've seen more than a few fracture at the "spokes".

Replaced the breather pipe gasket, and sealed up the cam plug.... I may well end up regretting it, but I dont fancy pulling the main bearing housing at this moment in time... 1. the puller i have doesn't have a big enough diameter, and 2. the thought of it scares the bejeesus out of me.... i'll man up and do it when i notice a leak down there again  :wink:

Are there alternative types of clutch plates for the cali's?


Just finished up another day on the bike...  today I wanted to get the rear fender mounted (plstic universal jobbie off ebay).. i noticed a rusty threaded hole either side of the frame to the rear -obviously not used on the calis, but left in, so decided to use it for the rear mounting point...

 

Got a seat latch from a kawasaki of some sort off ebay nice and cheap, slight adjustment to the seat latch and made it fit... the cable it came with is slightly long (only by about an inch mind) but managed to make it work with the original seat latch key...

 

not 100% convinced on the indicators since you can see the wiring coming back along the frame rail.... could always move them next to the top shock mounts.. but we'll see....



the frame is now officially ready for powder coating!  :grin: so that'll be first job of the new year... coupld of small brackets to finish off that'll go along to the powder coaters too...  looking forward to finally starting to build her back up again!

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Re: Cali 1100i - de-cruiserfication winter project
« Reply #37 on: December 23, 2016, 02:17:08 PM »
Are there alternative types of clutch plates for the cali's?

Several alternatives, here are MG Cycle's selections, my choice would be the second one:

http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=193&products_id=4749
http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=193&products_id=1165

Like I've posted before - I'd stay away from Sureflex unless you like a grabby clutch and Barnett unless having to replace the clutch hub every 30k miles appeals to you.  :wink:
Charlie
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Offline Andy B

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Re: Cali 1100i - de-cruiserfication winter project
« Reply #38 on: December 23, 2016, 02:25:35 PM »
Ahh i see.. they do look a lot more substantial... See how long i get out of this set and i'll look to upgrading   :cheesy:

Offline smdl

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Re: Cali 1100i - de-cruiserfication winter project
« Reply #39 on: December 23, 2016, 02:26:11 PM »

Replaced the breather pipe gasket, and sealed up the cam plug.... I may well end up regretting it, but I dont fancy pulling the main bearing housing at this moment in time... 1. the puller i have doesn't have a big enough diameter, and 2. the thought of it scares the bejeesus out of me.... i'll man up and do it when i notice a leak down there again  :wink:

Are there alternative types of clutch plates for the cali's?


Project is looking great, Andy!

A couple of thoughts:

1.  We often joke that Guzzi start building each bike by suspending a clutch disc in the middle of the air, and building the motorcycle around it.  It really is a lot of work to get back in there, so I would strongly recommend that you take all steps to seal up the back of the engine while you are in there.  Yes, it's a bit of work to take out the rear main bearing for re-sealing, but you'll kick yourself (repeatedly) for not doing so if you get the bike finished, fire it up, and see oil start dripping out the bottom.  Your choice, of course, but I know from personal experience that it is REALLY important to make sure you take care of EVERYTHING in there when you have it apart. 

2.  As for clutch friction discs, these seem to be the favored units, at present. 

http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=193&products_id=1165

You should be able to order from Stein-Dinse if you can't find locally in the UK.

Cheers,
Shaun
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Offline Andy B

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Re: Cali 1100i - de-cruiserfication winter project
« Reply #40 on: December 23, 2016, 02:35:11 PM »
You're probably right... and for the cost of the gasket and seal, i would be daft not to....

is it as easy as removing the bolts, pulling the housing and replacing the gasket and seal? does the crank stay put or will it drop? and is it a PITA to refit the housing? and how exactly are the longer bolts sealed up? instant gasket?

That's an awful lot of questions for one paragraph.... sorry  :embarrassed:

Offline smdl

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Re: Cali 1100i - de-cruiserfication winter project
« Reply #41 on: December 23, 2016, 06:34:20 PM »
You're probably right... and for the cost of the gasket and seal, i would be daft not to....

is it as easy as removing the bolts, pulling the housing and replacing the gasket and seal? does the crank stay put or will it drop? and is it a PITA to refit the housing? and how exactly are the longer bolts sealed up? instant gasket?

That's an awful lot of questions for one paragraph.... sorry  :embarrassed:

Better to ask questions that to miss something important!   Ideally, you would use the purpose-built tool to remove it:

http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=80&products_id=334

However, there are other methods that work quite well, one of which can be found here:

http://www.thisoldtractor.com/moto_guzzi_loopframe_rear_main_bearing_flange_removal_tool.html

The crank will stay in place, but I would lay then engine over on its nose (properly blocked up so that it is stable) while working on it.

There is also a tool that is made to install the rear main seal:

http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=80&products_id=2962

However, it is possible to do it without if you're careful.  I seem to recall that I used a large socket the first time, and then very carefully installed the bearing with the seal oiled and cautiously slipped over the crank.

For sealing up the two lower bolts, I follow Charlie's advice, and use Hondabond.  Check out Charlie's post (7th post in this thread) where he describes what he uses to seal the engine:

http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=70784.0

Hope this helps.

Shaun

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Offline wirespokes

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Re: Cali 1100i - de-cruiserfication winter project
« Reply #42 on: December 23, 2016, 09:28:35 PM »
If the frame is part of the breather system, and it's going to be stripped, I'd caution against sand blasting! I know of a bike that killed two rebuilt engines due to sand from blasting getting in there. I'd think there would be a way to clean it out, but someone who knows better advised scrapping the frame.

Offline Andy B

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Re: Cali 1100i - de-cruiserfication winter project
« Reply #43 on: December 24, 2016, 11:19:33 AM »
Helpful info... thank you..  I think i'll bite the bullet and do the rear bearing/seal housing.... when re-installing the housing, does it slide back on easy enough?


on the above thread, Charlie - you mention 22ft lbs for torque figure - this is for the rear bearing/seal housing is it? (just double checking i've not got any wires crossed whilst i'm asking...  :wink: )

I'll have to find the equivalent of the permatex 300... found some hondabond... i guess it'll be obvious where to seal the bolts once they're going back in...


If the frame is part of the breather system, and it's going to be stripped, I'd caution against sand blasting! I know of a bike that killed two rebuilt engines due to sand from blasting getting in there. I'd think there would be a way to clean it out, but someone who knows better advised scrapping the frame.

This is a very good point... and I hadn't even occurred to me!! thank you for mentioning it...i'll have to think of a work around on that one... the lower part of the frame really needs blasting due to the surface rust being in places i can't reach by any stretch of the imagination... if i were to blank the breather holes and all the mounting bolt holes into the top rails, and get just the lower parts blasted, i suppose that might be enough? is there an opening by the headstock under the bracing at all?

either way, looks like it'll have to cope with just a paint job rather than powder coat..

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Re: Cali 1100i - de-cruiserfication winter project
« Reply #44 on: December 24, 2016, 12:59:42 PM »
Helpful info... thank you..  I think i'll bite the bullet and do the rear bearing/seal housing.... when re-installing the housing, does it slide back on easy enough?


on the above thread, Charlie - you mention 22ft lbs for torque figure - this is for the rear bearing/seal housing is it? (just double checking i've not got any wires crossed whilst i'm asking...  :wink: )

I'll have to find the equivalent of the permatex 300... found some hondabond... i guess it'll be obvious where to seal the bolts once they're going back in...


99% of them come out and go back in without drama and fairly easy. I did have one that was so stuck that the "ears" of the main bearing flange snapped off before the flange budged.  :sad:

When reinstalling, I use four long bolts as guide pins so that all of the bolt holes are sure to line up. Most of the time the bearing/flange goes in with nothing more than a little convincing with the dead-blow hammer. Chilling the bearing/flange and warming the engine case helps. On earlier engines they seem to fit tighter and sometimes my guide pins are replaced by threaded rods with nuts and washers on them and I push the bearing/flange in by turning each nut 1/2 turn in a cross pattern until it's seated.

22 ft. lbs. is the factory torque spec. for the eight M8-1.25 x 25 grade 8.8 bolts that secure the bearing/flange to the engine case. I've found that figure to work well, but there is a certain amount of "feel" involved and experience in knowing when something isn't right.

Permatex 300 or Aviation (basically the same thing) should be available, found some on Amazon UK, but boy is it expensive!
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Permatex-80057-Super-Gasket-Sealant/dp/B01B3HUD3M/ref=sr_1_1?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1482605780&sr=1-1&keywords=permatex+300
It's about $5 a bottle here.

The two lower bearing/flange bolts get coated "liberally" with Hondabond/Yamabond/Threebond - I do the threads and underside of the head. Too much is just enough.  :laugh:
« Last Edit: December 24, 2016, 01:06:05 PM by Antietam Classic Cycle »
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Offline smdl

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Re: Cali 1100i - de-cruiserfication winter project
« Reply #45 on: December 24, 2016, 04:40:36 PM »
Hi, Andy.

One other thing that is worth checking while you are in there is the clutch hub (Charlie mentioned it earlier in relation to certain clutch friction plates).  Just check the splines on it to ensure that they aren't notched.  Here is a really bad example for reference:





Again, while you are in there, you'll want to make sure that everything is in good shape.  When you install the gearbox, make sure you refresh the clutch push rod seals so gear oil doesn't migrate up into the bellhouising and destroy your lovely new friction plate!

Sorry if this is something that has been covered already.

Cheers, and Happy Christmas!

Shaun
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Offline Muzz

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Re: Cali 1100i - de-cruiserfication winter project
« Reply #46 on: December 25, 2016, 01:23:04 PM »
That is nice (and very thorough) work you do Andy. :thumb:

Enjoying this thread.
Muzz. Cristchurch, New Zealand
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Offline salsaman1964

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Re: Cali 1100i - de-cruiserfication winter project
« Reply #47 on: December 27, 2016, 05:29:42 AM »
Hi Andy. Great write up on the progress of the build. I went through the same build process last year on my EV1100 cafe build.

I can appreciate the work involved in bringing all the components together. The battery box is a very neat solution for hiding that humongous ECU. Fortunately i Had the later model with the smaller ecu but still had a headache making the side panel fit.
Good luck with the project.
Regards Tony

Offline smdl

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Re: Cali 1100i - de-cruiserfication winter project
« Reply #48 on: December 27, 2016, 07:51:30 AM »
Hi Andy. Great write up on the progress of the build. I went through the same build process last year on my EV1100 cafe build.

I can appreciate the work involved in bringing all the components together. The battery box is a very neat solution for hiding that humongous ECU. Fortunately i Had the later model with the smaller ecu but still had a headache making the side panel fit.
Good luck with the project.
Regards Tony

Tony,

Wow, what a beautiful machine!  Is there an existing build thread for your bike that captures the details?  If not, maybe you could start one?  I do wish Guzzi would build a big block retro model!

Edit: Found it!

[http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=83677.msg1320975#msg1320975

Cheers,
Shaun
« Last Edit: December 27, 2016, 07:58:32 AM by smdl »
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Offline Andy B

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Re: Cali 1100i - de-cruiserfication winter project
« Reply #49 on: March 13, 2017, 01:54:32 PM »
had a bit of time off forums so thought it's about time i made a little update on the old build!

Hi Andy. Great write up on the progress of the build. I went through the same build process last year on my EV1100 cafe build.

I can appreciate the work involved in bringing all the components together. The battery box is a very neat solution for hiding that humongous ECU. Fortunately i Had the later model with the smaller ecu but still had a headache making the side panel fit.
Good luck with the project.
Regards Tony

have to say before i waffle on about mine, that's a beaut!! very nice indeed....


so last time i posted, i was having hesitations about taking the rear engine cover off.... well, i used the grub screw method on thisoldtractor, and worked like a charm :)


the seal however was a little bit stubborn coming out... nothing a bit of hot copper didnt solve though


made my own clutch spring compressor jobbie, and managed to just about get the plates lined up ok - what a pig!!


Got the frame powder coated.... lovely finish, very impressed. I tried to seal up the tubes for the breather system, but I dont think i succeeded... cant find the phto, but i ended up making a seperate breater chamber out of some tube i had in my scrap metal bin :) worked a treat, and mounted where the original filter sat.


front wheel done to match the rear whilst i had a bit of down time...


then started to build her up again...



Offline Andy B

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Re: Cali 1100i - de-cruiserfication winter project
« Reply #50 on: March 13, 2017, 02:02:37 PM »
got the side panels back on sunday - my dad used to be a painter, and still does his own bits and pieces, so he did the panels whilst he had the gear out painting his old mk1 mini cooper s... turned out lovely!



had fun matching up the colour, ended up using an old saab blue... its slightly darker, but you'd have to really look to notice...

I managed to pick up some Mistral end cans for a v7 off ebay... one side had a very slight scuff, so made a nice saving on the new price.... bit of cutting and welding on the h-pipe to get em to fit nicely... sounds very nice...

wheeled her out of the garage, and im very pleased with the result...







I ended up giving up on my quest for a more subtle side stand, couldnt find anything to fit, or anywhere to weld a nice looking mount, so ended up welding the original back into place... at least its reliable i guess :)



insuring her wasn't fun....  paid a bit more than i was happy with, but hey.... i'll cope... i get to ride her to the garage on wednesday for her MOT, and i'll be road legal!

got some white and silver vinyl, so might have a go at putting similar stripes to the tank onto the panels.... break up the blue a little....

but for now, i'll call this project finished :)

Offline QTreiber

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Re: Cali 1100i - de-cruiserfication winter project
« Reply #51 on: March 13, 2017, 02:26:00 PM »
Congratulations, Andy, she looks muscular and purposeful, great proportions!  :thumb:
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Re: Cali 1100i - de-cruiserfication winter project
« Reply #52 on: March 13, 2017, 02:37:20 PM »
 :thumb: :thumb:
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Re: Cali 1100i - de-cruiserfication winter project
« Reply #53 on: March 13, 2017, 03:02:00 PM »
It is indeed a great-looking bike! Congratulations and well-done!

I'd like to revisit the pics on page 1 of the thread...your replacement fuel filter looks to be a two-piece design with 1/2 plastic and 1/2 metal if I can believe my tired old eyes...those have been known to fail...mostly due to ethanol-additive fuels that we have here in the colonies but the two-piece design is simply a crimp-fit and if that upper plastic piece fails to seal correctly the bike will run like 'shite' or not at all...just a heads-up and you can find a proper all metal filter at af1racing.com...YMM V and it may never fail but I wanted you to be aware...HTH

Offline Andy B

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Re: Cali 1100i - de-cruiserfication winter project
« Reply #54 on: March 13, 2017, 03:14:36 PM »
cheers guys.. im very pleased with the looks now... just wish i didnt have to wait until wednesday to ride her...


just had a quick look back to pg1 re: fuel filter, think my pic was a ltitle misleading - that was after i'd replaced the half plastic filter with the full metal cased one :wink: i'd read a few people talking about them failing like you say, so swapped it out before i fitted the pump :)


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