4V 820cc V7 conversion

[kramer921]

Hey guys,

I've had my '14 V7R for about three years now and absolutely love it.  Because I take a fair amount of long-distance trips, though, I've lately been thinking some more power would be nice for longer rides outside of the city.  I've done a lot of research on the BMW R9T and have taken it on a short test ride, but it just didn't have the character (at least on that short ride) that I love so much about my Guzzi.

That led to me seriously looking into the Guzzitech 4V 820cc conversion for my V7.  While there's not too much info out there on it, it seems like most people that ride one seem to think it's exactly the bike they're looking for.  If that's the case, it seems that, while by no means an inexpensive mod, it would be a much cheaper alternative to the R9T while maintaining everything I love about my V7.

So I suppose I'm asking two things here:

- Would those that have experience with them mind chiming in with their opinions?

- Because I live on the east coast (Philadelphia), I'm a long ways from being able to check one out in Malibu.  Does anyone here on Wild Guzzi happen to have one that lives relatively close?

Thanks so much, guys!  Apologies if this has been discussed repeatedly, but I couldn't find much info on them by searching the site.

[pete roper]

Why not try a Griso? Tons of money for a 70cc capacity increase on a Heron head engine would seem like a complete waste of money to me.

Pete

[kramer921]

Hey Pete,

While I've heard great things about the Griso, it's a far too big and heavy bike for me.  At 5'8", 130ish lbs, and doing primarily city riding, it just doesn't suit my needs in a bike.  One of the things I love about the V7 is how light and nimble it is, and it seems to me that a big benefit of the Guzzitech conversion, at least on paper, is that it sheds another 40-ish lbs off of the already very light V7.

[pete roper]

Makes sense, I was just thinking if you rode the R9Turd the big G8 is very similar in weight etc.

Other choice which would be very similar to the Racer apart from Ergos would be one of the V9 variants but I suppose the stupid little tank would be a hinderance.

Pete

[beetle]

40lbs? How do they do that?

[beetle]

I wonder if anyone’s tried to fit a V7 tank to a V9?

Sorry, Kramer, you’ve got me head scratching. I don’t mean to thread drift....

[fotoguzzi]

40lbs? How do they do that?

thought the same thing.  tell us how.

[fotoguzzi]

do you have to have a Moto Guzzi? you sound like the ideal rider for a KTM 390 Duke. a little too cramped for me at 5'10"



 

[kramer921]

Hey guys,

My mistake; according to the thread on Guzzi Tech for the conversion, the bike they're renting has a total weight loss of almost 40 pounds:

"Final mods including Kineo wheels, Brembo Race brake upgrade and new Matris F15K fork kit. Come ride it at the link at the top of the screen, and/or now taking orders on complete turn-key bikes. 65% power increase and 37 lbs lighter than stock."

As for the R9T vs the Griso, according to the specs, the wet weight of the R9T is 489 lbs, while the Griso is 557. At my size, that's a significant difference.

There's also the issue of aesthetics.  I much prefer the V7 and the R9t to the Griso (and the KTM) in that respect.

[kramer921]

I wonder if anyone�s tried to fit a V7 tank to a V9?

Sorry, Kramer, you�ve got me head scratching. I don�t mean to thread drift....

Oh, and Beetle, from what I've seen, Guzzi Tech has also done that.  It seems like it was a lot of work to get the V9 looking like the V7.

[Edgar]

I wonder if anyone�s tried to fit a V7 tank to a V9?

Sorry, Kramer, you�ve got me head scratching. I don�t mean to thread drift....

Yes, the guzzi tech guy has done this and it’s apart of his rental fleet I believe

[pete roper]

65% power increase! I have a bridge I can sell you.

Pete

[kramer921]

65% power increase! I have a bridge I can sell you.

Pete

Well, unless I'm missing something here, or you think he's outright faking the image, the dyno chart at http://www.guzzitech.com/forums/threads/gt-rx%C2%AE-v7r-820-quattrovalvole-info-dyno-runs.15435/ seems to clearly support his claim of a significant power increase over stock.

[pete roper]

Sorry, I don't bother with that source of 'Information'.

[beetle]

65% seems a stretch. Can you post the dyno chart here? I�m not a GT forum member. Thanks!

[pete roper]

A stretch? It's taughter than the string on a compound bow!

[kramer921]

65% seems a stretch. Can you post the dyno chart here? I�m not a GT forum member. Thanks!

Sorry, I don't have access to a computer right now, so I'm doing this from my phone, but see if this link works for you:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/3cpl8dc6vmebnqo/Photo%20Oct%2008%2C%202%2035%2047%20AM.jpg?dl=0

[Huzo]

I wonder if anyone�s tried to fit a V7 tank to a V9?

Sorry, Kramer, you�ve got me head scratching. I don�t mean to thread drift....

yes

[beetle]

Wait. Lets do the math. A V7 makes about 40 RWHP on a good day. A V9 makes around 53 RWHP. That�s 25% more ponies. Guesstimating the 820 jobby is 5% better than a stock V9, that�s about 56 RWHP. That�s around 30% power increase over a stock V7. We know most dyno�s are calibrated with dwarf miniature horses, so a 65% power increase is well within fantasy claim expectations. For someone who claims to be able to get 140 RWHP from a single throttle body 8V, it well within the bounds of the ridiculous we have come to expect from the self-proclaimed guru. I quake at his magnificence.

[beetle]

Oh ho! I see the chart. Thanks for posting. 58 RWHP. That’s a 41% increase.

41 is not equal to 65.

[kramer921]

Oh ho! I see the chart. Thanks for posting. 58 RWHP. That�s a 41% increase.

41 is not equal to 65.

Well, I'm not about to argue on the guy's behalf.  I don't know much about it other than what I've read, which is why I'm seeking opinions from those that have ridden these modded bikes.

What I will say, though, is that while I personally never claimed it made a 65% increase in power (what the hell do I know?), I did say the dyno chart shows a significant increase in power, and I'd call 41% significant.

It seems to me that, if you're looking for more power but love the V7 platform, there unfortunately aren't many other options.

[beetle]

Yes, it will make more power. Whether it’s worth the investment is solely your decision. I would suggest tractability/ride would come into question.

[not-fishing]

- Because I live on the east coast (Philadelphia), I'm a long ways from being able to check one out in Malibu.  Does anyone here on Wild Guzzi happen to have one that lives relatively close?

I'd ride a Duc Monster in the 800-1000 size for a prospective in a less expensive option.  (I prefer the S2R over the S4R series because I do my own maintenance)

Then I'd book a flight to LA in the winter to visit and do a day long rental test ride.

For me, having a "spare" bike is a good thing.  I look at bikes as "golf clubs"

Mark

[flangeman_70]

Disclaimer :- I have no skin in this game, what interests me is the math

I think the math has been reversed where he has taken the Original HP as a percentage of the Mod'ed HP.
Looking at the graph Original is 36hp and Mod'ed is approx 54 (except for the little bump @7K RPM)

Mistakes happen

Adam

[Unkept]

Even if we aren't talking the numbers game here... who makes more power, etc...

You should take a look into the overwhelming amount of top end failures found in the Lario.

This "kit" from GT is a modified Lario/Imola parts bin special.

Will GTs kit more reliable? Maybe... but some good people here (Chuck in Indiana) have tried the 4v small block game and still been let down.

So you *could* throw tons of money on an engine upgrade that relies on custom and outdated parts, or you could...

1. Enjoy the bike as is, most of the power increase would only be relevant for high speed runs, and you said you are a city rider right?

2. Sell or trade it in for a new V7 III, which has a power increase and will have factory support, no need for fancy fueling etc.


or

3. Buy a better city bike that can also go on trips, like the KTM mentioned earlier. There are so many lighter and faster bikes out there, it's kind of silly to pick just one as an example... but you'll have to make that decision for yourself.

Personally in your situation I would just ride what I have until it's worn and ready for a rebuild or replacement.

I am 5' 10" and 140 lbs. So we aren't too far apart. I had a Breva 750 and a V11 LeMans (1064cc) before.

The Breva 750 took my wife and I two up with luggage on long trips with no issues! I only wanted more power when on the freeway trying to pass long trucks.

The V11 LeMans had enough power to handle any situation, but it was a bit tall and heavy for me... not bad, but I ended up preferring the lower and lighter Breva.

Good luck in your decision!

-Joe

[kramer921]

Appreciate the input, guys.   Unkept, the reliability issue is the strongest argument against it to me, and could very well be a deciding factor.  If Chuck in Indiana is still active here, maybe I'll send him a message and ask him his thoughts on it, having had experience with it.

I'm very, very picky about aesthetics, and that extends to motorcycles (which is partially why I landed on the V7 in the first place over simply getting a Honda or a Harley and having parts and dealers easily accessible).  The criteria in what I'm looking for, if I do decide to make another purchase, is that the bike be small and light enough, good for the city but capable enough for longer road trips, modern and fairly reliable, and in my opinion, visually appealing.  The ones I've landed on as potentials are the R9T and the Ducati Sport Classic.  There's unfortunately nothing else in Guzzi's recent line-ups that appeals to me, and while the V7 IIIs seem great, selling mine and re-purchasing one of those seems to me like a lot of hassle for a minimal upgrade.

[bpreynolds]

Given what the OP has stated he is looking for in a bike, relatively light weight, more power I would likely consider a V9.  I�ve owned both and while I never thought my former V7 lacked in power, the V9 definitely has more.  Small tank is a non-issue.  Right now I�m averaging between 48-50 mpg, lowest I�ve ever gotten was 46 something and highest was 55ish. Light doesn�t even come on until 120-135 and even then I�ve usually got nearly another gallon in the tank giving me roughly a range of 170-190.  Even said, I�d definitely get a test ride on the V9 for sure.  There are very real and felt handling and ergos differences in the V7/V9 comparison and while I�m loving my Roamer, I�m not yet prepared to say I like it better than my former V7 which is still one of my two favorite motorcycles I�ve ever owned.  And then too, the V9 look, as you mention aesthetics is important to you, may not be your cup of tea and I absolutely understand that as well. 

Only question I would ask, and I�m not doubting the op�s word here, but do you really �need� that extra power or is it something you just feel like you want?  And hey, there�s nothing wrong with just wanting it.  Totally fine.  But.  If I wanted more power than my pervious V7 or certainly my V9, I don�t think I�d choose a Guzzi.  Just me.  Griso, Stelvio, Norge.  Wonderful machines but when it comes to Guzzis, my favs are the small blocks and (gasp), even the 1100 engines.  So power.  If you�re wanting more, I�ve found the ideal garage if you occasionally �want� something more is to have a small Guzzi and something else. 

[wittangamo]

Like bpreynolds, I’ve owned a small block (V7) and a big block (Griso). I just traded for a V9 Roamer and couldn’t be happier.

The combo of light weight, low saddle, upright position and wide power band make it a joy in the city. On the highway, it has longer legs and more horses than the V7 and is much less thirsty than the Griso. With a range of nearly 200 miles, my bladder needs emptying before the tank needs filling.

It costs less than the BMW or Griso, and it’s going to be more reliable than a hot-rodded V7. (IMHO, of course. I’d love to try one of those, but probably not for a long-term daily rider.)

It’s a personal call — which is why you’re undecided and why you’re getting multiple opinions.

[drawnverybadly]

Have you tried lightening the bike yourself? The V7's are pretty sparse to begin with and there's not much room to slim down besides a lithium battery and aftermarket silencers, that said, losing the 20-30 lbs with those 2 mods can really make the bike feel way quicker and nimbler, especially for a lightweight guy like yourself.

[Howard R]

Appreciate the input, guys.   Unkept, the reliability issue is the strongest argument against it to me, and could very well be a deciding factor.  If Chuck in Indiana is still active here, maybe I'll send him a message and ask him his thoughts on it, having had experience with it.

I'm very, very picky about aesthetics, and that extends to motorcycles (which is partially why I landed on the V7 in the first place over simply getting a Honda or a Harley and having parts and dealers easily accessible).  The criteria in what I'm looking for, if I do decide to make another purchase, is that the bike be small and light enough, good for the city but capable enough for longer road trips, modern and fairly reliable, and in my opinion, visually appealing.  The ones I've landed on as potentials are the R9T and the Ducati Sport Classic.  There's unfortunately nothing else in Guzzi's recent line-ups that appeals to me, and while the V7 IIIs seem great, selling mine and re-purchasing one of those seems to me like a lot of hassle for a minimal upgrade.

You will find a few weeks worth of reading here.
http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=46f9ab96195407354561e5933b47a6b4&topic=65696.0

Thanks to Chuck's magnanimity one time at the Ohio rally I have briefly ridden the Aero Lario.  It's a hoot!

Howard