Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: swalker on February 13, 2015, 06:18:54 PM
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Looking for someone with Velorex sidecar experience. Not sure yet what I am going to do, but I do want to keep riding my Guzzi. So I am kicking around a Velorex 563 sidecar to add to my California Custom. Will just have to see how things play out.
Right now I am back home and I believe I am about over the pneumonia that put me back in the hospital. I feel like if I bought a sidecar for my California, it would just make it easier for me to continue running up and down the highways. I have heard about Velorex sidecars most all of my motorcycling life and have not really ever heard a bad word about them. So I am looking here to get some other guys thoughts. I do hope it all works out to where I don't have to just give up riding. God has pulled me through quite a bit the last few months and my faith and believing has not backed up one bit. I feel like all will be well.
Thanks once again for all your concerns, thoughts and prayers for me and my wife and family.
Steve
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I was warned against putting a 562 on mine, don't know about 563. There are several guys with hacks on here and I'm sure they will have answers for you. I ended up with a Texas Ranger and really like it!
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It might be a little on the light side for the Cali14, you could have a ballast plate made for under the tub to add some weight to it. Velo's are ok for what they cost. Then you wouldn't have to pack up much to hit up the rallies, just toss it in the chair and go. Glad to hear you are doing good.
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The Velorex is an easy bolt on for a Cal1100 or any of the T framed bikes. I have not put one on a Cal14 yet. If you're buying new, it'll already have the big axle, if used then measure to see that it has the big axle. Ballast is easy. No issue there.
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The Velorex was originally designed for a 350cc 2-stroke motorcycle. While you do see a few on larger bikes, personally I don't like to install them on bikes over 650cc. If you compare the tubing size to others on the market it is smaller in diameter and isn't a very robust build. Yes you can ballast them to work on heavier bikes but you still have the stress on the frame. I have seen the lower sidecar arms between the bike and sidecar bend or break. Having ridden a 1400 and installed and ridden bikes with a Velorex I wouldn't put the two together. Don't get me wrong, the Velorex can be a great sidecar on the right bike, just not the 1400.
Lots options out there but most are going to be a bit more than the Velorex and some are going to be a lot more. One thing you have to deal with is the mounting. That is going to be something to consider when finding one. If the sidecar manufacturer has already made a subframe kit to bolt the sidecar on it might be pretty straight forward. If not you will find yourself or someone knowledgeable fabricating the parts.
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If you have a 1400 Guzzi, Velorex sidecars are WAY too light for your bike !!! I've had a V on an Ambassador, Convert., and CX100. It was marginal on those lighter bikes(than yours) too. With a 1400 you're going to have to pony up more $ for a decent sidecar that is comparable in rigidity. ;) Something like a Texas sidecar at least.
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If you have a 1400 Guzzi, Velorex sidecars are WAY too light for your bike !!! I've had a V on an Ambassador, Convert., and CX100. It was marginal on those lighter bikes(than yours) too. With a 1400 you're going to have to pony up more $ for a decent sidecar that is comparable in rigidity. ;) Something like a Texas sidecar at least.
Looks like a Velorex is out. I know very little about sidecars so my reason for asking here and once again it has paid off. I am not familiar with the others, but will look into the Texas brand. Thanks for all the help. Steve.
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Texas, Motorvation, or DMC should do the job.
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As mentioned above, you need a heavy car for a big bike. There are serious forces involved.
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You might want to consider a Hannigan as well. I have a Velorex 562 on my 1000SP and it works fine, but your 1400 is probably too big for a Velorex. Have you ever driven a sidecar? If not, you might want to try one out somewhere before you commit to that avenue. They can be a handful even if set up properly. Front end modification will be needed if you want the best handling you can get IMO. This is just my opinion, but I've heard many folks say that when they get too old to "ride" a motorcycle, they will go to a sidecar thinking it is easier. That just isn't necessarily so IMO.
http://elrick.smugmug.com/1000SP/i-nH4hcqK/0/XL/004-XL.jpg (http://elrick.smugmug.com/1000SP/i-nH4hcqK/0/XL/004-XL.jpg)
Tom
Oriental, NC
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As mentioned above, you need a heavy car for a big bike. There are serious forces involved.
Thanks Chuck and I agree. I am now looking at one of these Texas Ranger's...
http://www.texassidecars.com/texas-sidecars-the-ranger.html
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I'd go even bigger that the Ranger.
I think a sidecar from Hannigan would look good on there.
(http://www.hannigantrikes.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Harley-White-softail-profile.jpg)
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I put a Motorvation Spyder on my Cali 1100 about 20,000 miles ago and it has worked out just fine.
Ted
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After choosing the correct hack keep in mind piloting a rig is a bit different. I adapted pretty easy but the steering effort increases significantly without a leading link front. Cornering is a bit different also. I enjoy my rig and have a lot of fun taking my grandson for rides but it's not for everyone and it can get costly to find out..... Perhaps you can find someone near you allow you a ride ??? There's a lot of good info on the adv site too. You may want to do a little research there. Thx, Dave.
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There is also a very good, but pricey book, "Driving a Sidecar Outfit by David Hough" that has a ton of information in it. Maybe you could get lucky and borrow a copy from someone in your area. There is more info at http://sidecar.com/mbbs22/category-view.asp along with the link to ADV that was mentioned above. They really are a hoot, but maybe not for everybody.
Tom
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I'd go even bigger that the Ranger.
I think a sidecar from Hannigan would look good on there.
(http://www.hannigantrikes.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Harley-White-softail-profile.jpg)
My experience with Hannigan is prices. I also tried to go to their web site and it would not open.
I like the price, etc of the Texas Ranger. And they have them in Leonard, TX. Only a little over 300 miles for me. Right now I am kicking this around. I do not believe I would have any trouble riding one. You know what they say about practice. It's all good. Thanks for all the help everyone.
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The base price on the Hannigan pictured is $4695 as compared to the Ranger base price of $3995.
http://www.hannigantrikes.com/products/classic-conte-classic-sidecar/
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The only time I've ever felt "out of control" of any machine was a sidecar rig. They are evil handling things, and *not* intuitive. **Take a sidecar course.** That said, Dorcia and I have had some of our best times on the Jack-All rig.
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The only time I've ever felt "out of control" of any machine was a sidecar rig. They are evil handling things, and *not* intuitive. **Take a sidecar course.** That said, Dorcia and I have had some of our best times on the Jack-All rig.
It may not be a good choice for me. But I believe I can learn. I have seen many much older than me riding one. I would rather try this, but may be better off to just down size my bike. for sure I would like to continue to ride if I can.
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Ha Steve glad to hear your home. The Texas side car a good one(a 1000 lbs. bike needs at least 200 lbs side car) might be a better choice for your bike, But its hard for some older people to get out of(like sitting on the floor and trying to get up with no chair around to grab). Then find you a big parking lot and make big circles to the right and make them smaller while going to the right. Then I will have you drifting up hog trail in know time. Rudyr
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Have you considered a trike?
Just curious why you headed down the sidecar road as opposed to the trike road.
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Have you considered a trike?
Just curious why you headed down the sidecar road as opposed to the trike road.
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The cost of a trike is out of my league. A sidecar rig seems to be my best option. I don't want to downsize my bike if I can help it.
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and one other thing may two. Call Frank and talk to him about a car tire, remember you don't lean with a sidecar, I talked to him last week and he likes his rear tire, I think he side $100.00 and 15 or 20,000 miles out of the rear. Then send your tree to Canada to get modified a little. Then steer with two fingers( if you get a wabel I've got a vokeswagen damper around here some place that is the best for the money.Rudy
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The only time I've ever felt "out of control" of any machine was a sidecar rig. They are evil handling things, and *not* intuitive. **Take a sidecar course.** That said, Dorcia and I have had some of our best times on the Jack-All rig.
I would be interested in checking your alignment. CUrious as to your toe-in settings if it is that evil handling.
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Steve,
I sent you a PM, check it out.
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I would be interested in checking your alignment. CUrious as to your toe-in settings if it is that evil handling.
The alignment was spot on. I have a laser and know how to use it. ;D It's just that sidecars have a couple of tricks up their sleeves on both right and left hand turns that can catch you unaware.
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The only time I've ever felt "out of control" of any machine was a sidecar rig. They are evil handling things, and *not* intuitive. **Take a sidecar course.** That said, Dorcia and I have had some of our best times on the Jack-All rig.
That was a beautiful rig.
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The alignment was spot on. I have a laser and know how to use it. ;D It's just that sidecars have a couple of tricks up their sleeves on both right and left hand turns that can catch you unaware.
So how much toe-in are you running then? on an 8 foot run.
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So how much toe-in are you running then? on an 8 foot run.
I started at 5/8" and ended up at 5/16"
Edit: IIRC. It's been a few years.
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noted.
toe-in of less than a half inch does indeed make for a VERY twitchy machine. I run everything at 1/2 to 3/4. Does not seem to adversely affect tire wear and makes for much more stable tracking. Right now I have a R1150GS in the garage that is getting a driven sidecar. It will be interesting to see if normal toe in settings still work if the sidecar wheel is also pushing. I'm thinking that less toe-in might be needed. We'll seen
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I do know that Ural and Dneprs that had full time 2WD used little to no toe-in.
I think I talked to that guy about the installation of that 2WD sidecar. Interesting but not something I wanted to tackle.
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noted.
toe-in of less than a half inch does indeed make for a VERY twitchy machine. I run everything at 1/2 to 3/4. Does not seem to adversely affect tire wear and makes for much more stable tracking. Right now I have a R1150GS in the garage that is getting a driven sidecar. It will be interesting to see if normal toe in settings still work if the sidecar wheel is also pushing. I'm thinking that less toe-in might be needed. We'll seen
I'm not saying it was twitchy, it was just a sidecar. ~; ;D You are either a sidecarist, or not. I found that I wasn't. People that have had it since said it is a great handling rig. It has a Unit front end, sidecar brake, and electric lean. We drove it all over the country including climbing Pikes Peak, and have (slowly) ~; done hundreds of miles of twistys. I'll still stand by the "evil handling" statement. ;D :BEER:
We'd still have it, but Dorcia's back just couldn't handle "sitting on the floor" any more. It was the last time we've done any long distance travel on two or three wheels.. :(
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Gonna have to keep my eye out for that 2WD 'hack 'round Watertown...
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I do know that Ural and Dneprs that had full time 2WD used little to no toe-in.
I think I talked to that guy about the installation of that 2WD sidecar. Interesting but not something I wanted to tackle.
I'm sure you're name came up when Dan was looking for someone to do the install for him. Thank for the info on the 2WD Urals. That's good to know. It is a BIG project. LOTS of machining and re-designing as it comes together. Not impressed by the Dauntless subframe for this application though. Am beefing it up for its new load.
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:+1 on David Hough's book. Good start. I'd recommend riding an atv. Similar characteristics when riding into corners. If you're planning on doing any long trips with one consider that it'll take longer than a solo bike. You can carry more but than means you'll need to carry a gas can with spare fuel. "That being said", I remember seeing a couple on his and her hacks. Both were w/c bound. They enjoyed the heck out of their rigs. They had Converts as tugs. This was 2 Nationals ago at New Cumberland. Use to go into the parking lot to count fallen over bikes too. ~; :D