Author Topic: Sexual harrasment at work question ( ngc)  (Read 49226 times)

Offline bigbikerrick

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Sexual harrasment at work question ( ngc)
« on: February 17, 2015, 03:28:27 PM »
Hey Folks, I cant think of a better place to ask this question, with the group's cumulative knowledge , and experience, plus, I trust and respect you folk's opinion.

My wife works as a teller for a major bank. a couple of days ago, she came home upset, because of what a manager said to one of her co workers.  The male manager in his mid 50's  walked up to a teller , a 24 year old female, who has worked there less than a year, and told her " you won a raffle I held here among ourselves" " you won 2 tickets for carne asada plates" ( mexican steak dinner) these were fund raiser tickets, for some charitable cause, that another employee sold to the manager. As the manager
 walked up to the gal to hand her the tickets, she said thank you,and held out her hand to shake his hand, at this point the guy opens his arms wide, and  tells her" Women dont shake hands, women hug" he then gave her a hug. after hugging her he states" I am going to make a woman out of you yet!" My wife , who was close by, in the next teller window, heard /saw the whole thing, and told me it made her feel embarassed, and uncomfortable. The 24 year old female employee, had in the past confided to my wife , and a couple of the other teller/co workers that she is "gay", although she is a single parent to a little girl, and that she has a live in female partner. my wife said that the young gal acted very embarassed, and didnt know what to say. another teller co worker also witnessed the event. This manager is an abusive, pompous ass, and a "bully" type, who in the past numerous times has said innapropriate comments, mostly regarding  attractive female customers that enter the bank, and on numerous occasions has yelled at and belittled female employees ,even in front of customers. My wife has not discussed the incident with the 24 y/o gal , but did discuss it with the other teller who was present, and she agrees that it was very inapropriate what the guy did.
What are you folk's opinions on this ,and do you think my wife should take any action with HR, etc. or just let it slide?
Thanks for any opinions, advice.
Rick.
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Offline AMGeneral

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Re: Sexual harrasment at work question ( ngc)
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2015, 03:35:23 PM »
Is there someone above the manager they can go to? But it could turn into a he said, she said situation without proof of his actions.
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Offline LowRyter

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Re: Sexual harrasment at work question ( ngc)
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2015, 03:37:41 PM »
the key fact is that there is pattern and this isn't an isolated incident.  The next thing to consider, would it do any good to talk to this guy and expect better behavior or does this need to go to management and potentially to adjudication (legal or otherwise).  

hopefully it's something than can be solved and won't deteriorate into a real bag of worms.  Usually there are no winners.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2015, 03:38:11 PM by LowRyter »
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Re: Sexual harrasment at work question ( ngc)
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2015, 03:54:37 PM »
I use to hug the ladies and never gave it a second thought.  ;D  Not any more or not around the work place.  ::( I think the manager is asking for trouble-big time.  However, when we are meeting friends for dinner or some such thing we frequently hug.  Someone should talk to this guy.  Going to be hard for him to accept but he can  be replaced by one of the ladies.  :BEER:
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Re: Sexual harrasment at work question ( ngc)
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2015, 03:54:37 PM »

Offline Kiwi_Roy

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Re: Sexual harrasment at work question ( ngc)
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2015, 03:55:39 PM »
The guy is an idiot, harassment can get you fired no matter who you are.

A quiet word on the side from an older woman might make him realize but then again he could turn on the messenger.
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Offline drw916

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Re: Sexual harrasment at work question ( ngc)
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2015, 03:55:40 PM »
Rick,

While this would most likely fall under sexual harassment to the teller, it is up to her to determine if a complaint will be filed.  Your wife and the other co-worker would be witnesses for the complaint.

Your wife and co-worker could file their own complaint about his comments causing them discomfort, but it is a double edged sword.  The guy sounds like a total jerk who should immediately be removed from his position, but it seldom works that way.

Unless the bank truly believes in their policies, the guy may just get a talking to and then what?  Retaliation is even harder to prove than sexual harassment, and he sounds like the type to do it.

On the other hand, if three women get together and demand action, there is a good chance something will happen.  Most companies are deathly afraid of a potential lawsuit of this type.

The question is, do they want to draw the line here.  I've seen managers with influence survive complaints that should have had them fired many times over.  Other times I've seen people let go for trumped up charges.

It's a mine field.  Proceed with caution.
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Offline Waltr

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Re: Sexual harrasment at work question ( ngc)
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2015, 03:56:26 PM »
  As much as I disagree with the actions of the manager if I were to do anything at all it would be to offer support to the young woman. I would say that I saw the incident and would offer to be a witness if she decided to stand up.  Then leave it at that.  I have gotten myself in trouble for fighting other people battles and regretted it in the past.
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Offline DucatiSSsp

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Re: Sexual harrasment at work question ( ngc)
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2015, 04:02:19 PM »
Either she should confront the manager and say "on behalf of some of the employees here, we find your comments and actions offensive and wish that you would curtail such behavior or notify the HR dept.  Most employees are afraid of repercussions and usually just go to HR.  Once he has been talked to by HR(sexual harassment training?), the next offense would/should be suspension and/or termination.  
When I was in grocery management for the Kroger Co., they did not dick around.  One written warning w/ subsequent training and you were out the door for the next offense pending investigation!
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Offline rodekyll

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Re: Sexual harrasment at work question ( ngc)
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2015, 04:06:18 PM »
Certainly it's evening gossip around the coffee table, but I think she should stay out of it unless called upon to speak.  It's not her place to be the sex police.  The manager needs to come to hesus, but it's not your wife's job to bring him.

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Offline HDGoose

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Re: Sexual harrasment at work question ( ngc)
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2015, 04:06:32 PM »
Anyone can report improper actions to HR. Document, document, document. Copy emails, statements. Document who/what/where/when.

She has two witnesses. What's the hesitation? Waiting for someone else 'to do something'?

Offline Dean Rose

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Re: Sexual harrasment at work question ( ngc)
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2015, 04:08:27 PM »
Bingo! My wife (Cindy) was an employment law specialist. She is going to her computer now and will answer your question shortly.


Dean


« Last Edit: February 17, 2015, 04:09:20 PM by Dean Rose »
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Re: Sexual harrasment at work question ( ngc)
« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2015, 04:10:25 PM »
A friend of mine was receiving harassing text messages at work and wanted to take action against the person responsible. He asked me for advice, specifically if I thought a crime was being committed. I said I am pretty sure this was TEXUAL harassment.  ;D ;D

Offline sturgeon

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Re: Sexual harrasment at work question ( ngc)
« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2015, 04:15:03 PM »
In my (former) place of work, if the incident made your wife feel uncomfortable, she'd be well within her rights to file a complaint of her own, should she choose to do so.
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Offline normzone

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Re: Sexual harrasment at work question ( ngc)
« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2015, 04:17:57 PM »
Been down this road a couple of decades ago - it's a much less Wild West scenario now.

Corporate is responsible for training management about this stuff. There's somebody in corporate who's job it is to care.

It's a high stress matter, no fun for anybody. A polite anonymous request for local training to corporate might yield results with minimum blowback from the trainees.
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Offline Sasquatch Jim

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Re: Sexual harrasment at work question ( ngc)
« Reply #14 on: February 17, 2015, 04:32:23 PM »
  Does the young lady in question have any male gay friends?  Maybe she could get one of them to go hug the manager
 in a very personal way then let him know that is advances towards the young lady are inappropriate.

  Maybe the gander needs to be goosed.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2015, 04:33:18 PM by Sasquatch Jim »
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Offline screamday

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Re: Sexual harrasment at work question ( ngc)
« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2015, 04:34:50 PM »
Banks have cameras everywhere....was any of it caught on a security camera?
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Offline Lannis

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Re: Sexual harrasment at work question ( ngc)
« Reply #16 on: February 17, 2015, 04:35:52 PM »
Been down this road a couple of decades ago - it's a much less Wild West scenario now.

Corporate is responsible for training management about this stuff. There's somebody in corporate who's job it is to care.

It's a high stress matter, no fun for anybody. A polite anonymous request for local training to corporate might yield results with minimum blowback from the trainees.

True, all of the above.

Unbelievable that in the year 2015, with everyone in every company trained about what constitutes sexual harassment until their eyes roll back, that some idiot 50's-something wisht-he-had-testicles man would still be doing this "Aw honey come on give me a hug" bullshyte to a young employee.

Our company always had a "hot line" that ANYONE could call about this kind of thing.   They'd handle it in whatever way was legally appropriate and the "least messy" but would absolutely deal with the situation, whether the person who was harassed wants to come forward or "cause trouble" or what.   They HAVE to.   Someone could bring a class-action lawsuit on behalf of the harassed employee, whether she wants them to or not, and end up owning the company.   The company can't afford to do anything less than sort it completely out, now.

My opinion is that this old fart needs to be forklifting pallets of deicing salt in the back of Home Depot for the rest of his useless career, not wearing a tie in a heated office with responsibility for other people's careers ....

Lannis
« Last Edit: February 17, 2015, 04:41:03 PM by Lannis »
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Sexual harrasment at work question ( ngc)
« Reply #17 on: February 17, 2015, 04:36:00 PM »
First question:

Is your wife personally offended enough by the work environment & the manager to file a personal grievance against the guy?

Or

Is she concerned for the young lady and wants to help/support her in her claim?


If your wife feels it impacts her work to the point the needs to file a claim.. She is well within her rights to contact corprate HR.. Skip trying to have the 'come to Jesus' lecture with the manager... Direct confrontation is HIGHLY unlikely to change his behavior, more likely single her out to be picked on


If she wants to help/support the young teller, she needs to communicate with this girl & let her know she 'has her back' is willing to provide statements to HR etc...  But it is on the girl to initiate the claim.  Independently going around the girl directly to HR or the manager "on her behalf"...  That is asking for trouble.  

Oddly, I have even seen situations where the 'victim' becomes resentful at those trying to help...  If your wife raises a big stink and the girl in question doesn't even want to pursue it..  Your wife will end up being the 'rat' 'busybody' 'troublemaker' 'nosey'  of the office! Even if her intentions are good


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Re: Sexual harrasment at work question ( ngc)
« Reply #18 on: February 17, 2015, 04:43:44 PM »
 "Squatch and the Mayor are both on to something . Jim , the friend needs to be an ex NFL lineman . Mr Mayor , yes , the question is what Rick's wife needs to do . Damn , what an embarrassment to all of us guys .

  Dusty

Offline Dean Rose

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Re: Sexual harrasment at work question ( ngc)
« Reply #19 on: February 17, 2015, 04:47:32 PM »
My first reaction to the post that Dean read to me was disgust.  Unfortunately it takes aging to get to the place where I am today and would have told the bank manager exactly what he could do with his hug and remarks. When I was 24 I too would have said or done nothing; it was the way of business back then. But not today.

Sexual harassment is not about sex. It’s about power. The power one person has over another as in this instance a manager to a subordinate. The 24 year old feels obligated to accept the behavior for fear of losing her job or being treated badly if she shows any resistance.  It’s tantamount to quid pro quo where women get to keep their jobs if the manager gets to harass them.  And it’s illegal.
Additionally any statement, noise or gestures the manager has made about attractive female customers is sexual harassment not mention cultivating a hostile environment. Again there are laws against it.

I am willing to bet that the bank has a sexual harassment policy in place. It should have been communicated to every employee upon hire and should have clear guidelines (1.) what constitutes harassment and (2.) the steps to take to report the unacceptable behavior.
Tell your wife and the 24 year old to use it and do it now! Tell them to make notes of dates, time and place and any others who may have witnessed the behavior. Tell them to go to HR and verbally require that their discussion be held in strict confidence. (It will be believe me, that is, if the HR dept. has any clue of what it could cost them if they don’t take immediate and appropriate action.)

Neither your wife nor the 24 year old has to confront the manager; that’s HR’s job. They just need to give HR everything they remember about all the instances that have taken place. Then they need to go back to work and see if changes are made. If nothing happens and the behavior continues then have them contact the EEOC.

The EEOC will want all the same information including when and who in HR was notified. The EEOC will take it from there. Nobody at the bank can stop them from taking whatever action they deem necessary to investigate. If the EEOC finds cause, the bank will be penalized and all parties who have filed a claim can obtain attorneys and file civil suits.

Tell your wife not to be afraid, there are at least two who can testify about the manager’s behavior and it needs to stop. 

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Offline Dean Rose

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Re: Sexual harrasment at work question ( ngc)
« Reply #20 on: February 17, 2015, 04:52:11 PM »
Anyone can report improper actions to HR. Document, document, document. Copy emails, statements. Document who/what/where/when.

She has two witnesses. What's the hesitation? Waiting for someone else 'to do something'?

My wife read your post and kudos. The only person who knows what they are talking about.


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Offline Lannis

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Re: Sexual harrasment at work question ( ngc)
« Reply #21 on: February 17, 2015, 04:52:59 PM »
"Squatch and the Mayor are both on to something . Jim , the friend needs to be an ex NFL lineman . Mr Mayor , yes , the question is what Rick's wife needs to do . Damn , what an embarrassment to all of us guys .

  Dusty

The whole point is that NO ONE should feel like they have to "file a personal grievance" or "have someone come threaten the manager" or "stir up a bunch of trouble" or "confront anyone" or do anything that they might feel uncomfortable about.  

If people have to do those kinds of things in order to stop sexual harassment, then they are working in a "hostile" work environment, and if I were an EEOC auditor checking into the systems the company has in place to prevent harassment, I'd burn them a new one and have them under a consent order before you could say "Hey Snake Hips, where's my coffee?"

ANY ONE in the office who knows about the situation needs to be able to calmly and objectively report it to whoever in the corporation cares.   If no one in the corporation cares, then they need to be jerked up hard via the appropriate enforcement agency - there's hot lines for that too, and they're anonymous.    If there IS a person in the corporation whose job it is to care, then it doesn't matter if it's Rick's wife or the person being harassed who calls - there are no comebacks on them.   Again, if there IS a comeback, then prepare for a large and munificent settlement after the lawsuit.

I know that people will object to "lawsuit", but when the only alternative is finding a big enough friend to come and break the manager's nose, it's the only way it will stop.

Lannis
« Last Edit: February 17, 2015, 04:53:52 PM by Lannis »
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Re: Sexual harrasment at work question ( ngc)
« Reply #22 on: February 17, 2015, 05:10:27 PM »
Lannis , what I am saying is , I can't and won't attempt to tell Rick's wife how to act in this situation . Yeah , the manager needs to be shown the error of his ways , Jim was suggesting the direct approach , and the Mayor was offering an alternative .

  Dusty

Offline boatdetective

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Re: Sexual harrasment at work question ( ngc)
« Reply #23 on: February 17, 2015, 05:20:02 PM »
I'm more on the side of Nick here. If the young woman is so disgusted and offended by a hug- it's up to her to at the very least to say something.  She could have refused the hug right there and then- it it would have turned the tables and made him uncomfortable.

OK- so the guy's an a$$. I'm not defending his actions. However, does this mean you really want to go through the whole soul sucking tedium of dealing with "HR"? Really? Patronizing and robotic discussions about sensitivity, respect, and feelings? Do you honestly think at this age you can "un-jerk" some guy by talking it out?

If life is just too unbearable at the bank- she can write an anonymous letter to mention that he's shown a pattern of being a jerk to women. If she's paranoid- then she can mail a copy to herself so she has a date stamped proof of when she sent it. Then she could start keeping a diary of sleights and actions on his part that could be perceived as retribution. Then she could arrange several meetings with her female co workers to form a plan of action and to write out statements. Then she could meet with HR, who will in turn meet with the friends, meet with the manager, and ask the woman to write out a formal treatise on the event. Then again, she could choose to not let something like this rule her life.  

For god's sake- they are burning people to death in Libya.
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Offline Dean Rose

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Re: Sexual harrasment at work question ( ngc)
« Reply #24 on: February 17, 2015, 05:20:15 PM »
Lannis , what I am saying is , I can't and won't attempt to tell Rick's wife how to act in this situation . Yeah , the manager needs to be shown the error of his ways , Jim was suggesting the direct approach , and the Mayor was offering an alternative .

  Dusty


As Cindy said the proper action is to report this to the Human Resources Department. Nobody confronts the Manager but the HR Department.

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Re: Sexual harrasment at work question ( ngc)
« Reply #25 on: February 17, 2015, 05:24:12 PM »

As Cindy said the proper action is to report this to the Human Resources Department. Nobody confronts the Manager but the HR Department.

Dean
[/quote

 Oh I do agree Dean , and tell Cindy thanks . However as a guy , my gut reaction is punch the manager in the nose . Wrong , probably , satisfying , certainly .

  Dusty

Offline Dean Rose

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Re: Sexual harrasment at work question ( ngc)
« Reply #26 on: February 17, 2015, 05:25:23 PM »
I'm more on the side of Nick here. If the young woman is so disgusted and offended by a hug- it's up to her to at the very least to say something.  She could have refused the hug right there and then- it it would have turned the tables and made him uncomfortable.

OK- so the guy's an a$$. I'm not defending his actions. However, does this mean you really want to go through the whole soul sucking tedium of dealing with "HR"? Really? Patronizing and robotic discussions about sensitivity, respect, and feelings? Do you honestly think at this age you can "un-jerk" some guy by talking it out?

If life is just too unbearable at the bank- she can write an anonymous letter to mention that he's shown a pattern of being a jerk to women. If she's paranoid- then she can mail a copy to herself so she has a date stamped proof of when she sent it. Then she could start keeping a diary of sleights and actions on his part that could be perceived as retribution. Then she could arrange several meetings with her female co workers to form a plan of action and to write out statements. Then she could meet with HR, who will in turn meet with the friends, meet with the manager, and ask the woman to write out a formal treatise on the event. Then again, she could choose to not let something like this rule her life.  

For god's sake- they are burning people to death in Libya.

Would you want your wife, mother or sister treated like this in the workplace. If the answer is no how can you support your argument?

Dean  
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Re: Sexual harrasment at work question ( ngc)
« Reply #27 on: February 17, 2015, 05:28:21 PM »
The manager should at a minimum be reprimanded, in many organizations he would be dismissed, period.

If the employee wants to file a complaint she must document the exchange and record witness statements, then the complaint should be sent to the HR department of the bank "in confidence".



Offline Lannis

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Re: Sexual harrasment at work question ( ngc)
« Reply #28 on: February 17, 2015, 05:40:47 PM »
Then again, she could choose to not let something like this rule her life.  



Unfortunately, spoken like a true middle-aged historically privileged white male manager who has no idea of how anyone else can "rule his life".

This old bastard didn't get the 21st century memo.   His behavior is totally unacceptable, morally, ethically, socially, and every other "-ally".   

Since he can't legally get a really first-class physical a$$-kicking from anyone, and since the young lady probably doesn't want to shoot him, then getting ground up and spit out by HR is the only thing left. 

I guess I'm trying to express my loathing for the condescending, patronizing, clueless, harassing mindset this guy shows,and has historically been allowed to get away with, per Rick's narrative.   Maybe I'm just sounding grumpy instead.

Lannis
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Offline Guzzistajohn

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Re: Sexual harrasment at work question ( ngc)
« Reply #29 on: February 17, 2015, 05:41:45 PM »
Harrassment? are you sure that's one word? :D :D :D


No really, as said above this weener needs to know his actions were inappropriate. And your wife's friend needs to tell him so and she needs to use the word inappropriate and document the time, place and every word that was said in detail. This type of behaviour is not tolerated in today's workplace at all. But the first step is telling him he's made an infraction. He might be a good guy that just doesn't know any better.

Just my opinion, but isn't it a good idea to treat others how you want to be treated? If you screwed up and offended someone wouldn't you want to know before HR opened up a full scale investagation? He could be sorry for what he's done and never do it again. It's not like he waved his pecker at her for Christ's sake.

What this girl does on her own time and who she snuggles with at night has nothing to do with this. A non issue.

I have sat through a few work related training sessions on this issue. (and no, I wasn't the only one in the class, everyone was required to be there)


JS
« Last Edit: February 17, 2015, 05:48:36 PM by Guzzistajohn »
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