Hold out for the V7 II or dive in now?

[guzzisteve]

I also rode both yesterday, back to back. A 15' 5 speed & the V7II not much difference.

[organfixsing]

I have to respectfully point out that the final drive ratio is different also, as follows:-

                                V7 (2014)                     V7 II (2015)
Primary drive:-               1.31:1                          1.27:1
Final drive    :-               4.285:1                        4.125:1

Mind you, I have known Moto Guzzi information to be wrong befor today.(Vide CARC oil 85W-140 in a 2005 BREVA 1100!)

Cheers

Brian    ;)

[sib]

I have to respectfully point out that the final drive ratio is different also, as follows:-

                                V7 (2014)                     V7 II (2015)
Primary drive:-               1.31:1                          1.27:1
Final drive    :-               4.285:1                        4.125:1

Mind you, I have known Moto Guzzi information to be wrong befor today.(Vide CARC oil 85W-140 in a 2005 BREVA 1100!)

Cheers

Brian    ;)

Yes, that info is wrong.  Both the V7 and 7II have the exact same final drive, the gearing is 8:33, which comes out to 1.425.  The 4.285 ratio is for a much older bevel drive.  The person who updates the info in the manuals seems to be numerically challenged at MG.

[organfixsing]

G'day SIB, the specs I looked at for the V7 were rong in the maths. Yes they are the same for the two models, i.e. 8:33 or 4.125 :1. Using the gear ratios I have revised the overall gearing as follows.

                                  V7                               V7 II
                  1st           12.773                          13.929
                  2nd           8.878                           9.37
                  3rd           6.905                           7.027
                  4th           5.704                           5.71
                  5th           4.755                           5.06
                  6th                                             4.685

Cheers
Brian

[sib]

G'day SIB, the specs I looked at for the V7 were rong in the maths. Yes they are the same for the two models, i.e. 8:33 or 4.125 :1. Using the gear ratios I have revised the overall gearing as follows.

                                  V7                               V7 II
                  1st           12.773                          13.929
                  2nd           8.878                           9.37
                  3rd           6.905                           7.027
                  4th           5.704                           5.71
                  5th           4.755                           5.06
                  6th                                             4.685

Cheers
Brian

Well, at least our calculations for the V7II now agree.  I'll still go with my calculations for the 5-sp, which differ from yours by a huge 1%!  Probably some kind of roundoff error (my non-rounded Excel spreadsheet calculations are supposed to be accurate to 15 significant figures).  It's interesting that the overall 4th gear ratios are about the same for both bikes.  The extra gear on the 6-sp bike falls roughly between where 4th and 5th gear are on the 5-sp bike.  I didn't think that an extra gear was needed there, but, in actual riding, it does come in handy.  I find that I stay in 5th gear for most non-highway riding, up to 60 mph or so, especially when my speed varies between 50 and 60, and use 6th gear mainly for above 60 mph.

    V7                                                                                       V7 II
1st     12.797                                                                       1st          13.930
2nd     8.895                                                                        2nd         9.370
3rd     6.918                                                                          3rd          7.028
4th     5.715                                                                          4th          5.710
5th     4.764                                                                          5th          5.060
                                                                                           6th          4.685

[jas67]

Well, at least our calculations for the V7II now agree.  I'll still go with my calculations for the 5-sp, which differ from yours by a huge 1%!  Probably some kind of roundoff error (my non-rounded Excel spreadsheet calculations are supposed to be accurate to 15 significant figures).  It's interesting that the overall 4th gear ratios are about the same for both bikes.  The extra gear on the 6-sp bike falls roughly between where 4th and 5th gear are on the 5-sp bike.  I didn't think that an extra gear was needed there, but, in actual riding, it does come in handy.  I find that I stay in 5th gear for most non-highway riding, up to 60 mph or so, especially when my speed varies between 50 and 60, and use 6th gear mainly for above 60 mph.

    V7                                                                                       V7 II
1st     12.797                                                                       1st          13.930
2nd     8.895                                                                        2nd         9.370
3rd     6.918                                                                          3rd          7.028
4th     5.715                                                                          4th          5.710
5th     4.764                                                                          5th          5.060
                                                                                           6th          4.685

I can definitely see where the 5 speed V7 would benefit from a gear between 4th and 5th, as I frequently find myself in 4th wanting a slightly taller gear, but, knowing 5th is a little too tall for that speed or incline.    So, the 6-speed is definitely an improvement, IMHO, thought, not compelling enough for me to trade up from my 2013 V7R, like it was when I upgraded from my 2009 V7C.

IMHO, going from V7 I to V7 I.5 is a bigger upgrade, larger, metal fuel tank, choice of cast alloy wheels, or spoked wheels with alloy rims (big improvement over the quick-rusting ital-chrome over steel), much better range due to larger fuel capacity and improved fuel economy, and better low end torque.

For some riders the V7II is a huge improvement over the 1.5, the biggest being ABS.    The different ergos probably don't mean much to someone my size (5'8" / 30" inseam), but, more legroom for taller riders, and a lower seat height for the inseam challenged is a win as well.

These incremental improvements are good, help keep the V7 series fresh, and, hopefully will further increase sales.

That said, I'm waiting for the V7III for my next Guzzi small block purchase.    I'd like a V7-III Special as my next commuter. 

My reasonable suggestions for the V7 III are as follows:

Increase displacement to 820cc, and redesign the head for better flow.    This should be good for 60 to 65 HP.     More than that isn't necessary for this model, as that isn't it mission.
LED tail light standard, extra bright for stop.   Keep the same classic external shape though.
LED headlight with optics that rival luxury cars' bi-xenon headlights.   Make it classic round, not weird like the Cali 1400.
Get ride of the crappy mirrors that they've been putting on the V7 series since the first Classics.      Go with the Sport 1200 style mirrors that Kev & I have on our V7's.   They're great mirrors, and don't cost a lot.

The next generation V7 Racer should have the beautiful "Record" kit goodies as standard, plus, more power (like 75 HP), and dual discs up front.     I think that people would be willing to pay a little more than the current V7R for this.

[sib]

All reasonable suggestions for a V7III.  However, I don't think we'll see a displacement or hp increase, because the main European market has a beginners' license category the current V7s qualify for but larger-engined bikes would not.  Unless the rules are changed, MG will continue to comply with the current limits.

[Kev m]

All reasonable suggestions for a V7III.  However, I don't think we'll see a displacement or hp increase, because the main European market has a beginners' license category the current V7s qualify for but larger-engined bikes would not.  Unless the rules are changed, MG will continue to comply with the current limits.

They could do the displacement change on the Racer only...

[pyoungbl]

Some euro bikes meet the beginner license requirements by 'dumbing down' the ECU to limit output.  As I recall, BMW did that with the 650 singles.  Guzzi could still bump the displacement but limit the horsepower on a beginner version.

Peter Y.

[kevdog3019]

I can definitely see where the 5 speed V7 would benefit from a gear between 4th and 5th, as I frequently find myself in 4th wanting a slightly taller gear, but, knowing 5th is a little too tall for that speed or incline.    So, the 6-speed is definitely an improvement, IMHO, thought, not compelling enough for me to trade up from my 2013 V7R, like it was when I upgraded from my 2009 V7C.

IMHO, going from V7 I to V7 I.5 is a bigger upgrade, larger, metal fuel tank, choice of cast alloy wheels, or spoked wheels with alloy rims (big improvement over the quick-rusting ital-chrome over steel), much better range due to larger fuel capacity and improved fuel economy, and better low end torque.

For some riders the V7II is a huge improvement over the 1.5, the biggest being ABS.    The different ergos probably don't mean much to someone my size (5'8" / 30" inseam), but, more legroom for taller riders, and a lower seat height for the inseam challenged is a win as well.

These incremental improvements are good, help keep the V7 series fresh, and, hopefully will further increase sales.

That said, I'm waiting for the V7III for my next Guzzi small block purchase.    I'd like a V7-III Special as my next commuter. 

My reasonable suggestions for the V7 III are as follows:

Increase displacement to 820cc, and redesign the head for better flow.    This should be good for 60 to 65 HP.     More than that isn't necessary for this model, as that isn't it mission.
LED tail light standard, extra bright for stop.   Keep the same classic external shape though.
LED headlight with optics that rival luxury cars' bi-xenon headlights.   Make it classic round, not weird like the Cali 1400.
Get ride of the crappy mirrors that they've been putting on the V7 series since the first Classics.      Go with the Sport 1200 style mirrors that Kev & I have on our V7's.   They're great mirrors, and don't cost a lot.

The next generation V7 Racer should have the beautiful "Record" kit goodies as standard, plus, more power (like 75 HP), and dual discs up front.     I think that people would be willing to pay a little more than the current V7R for this.

Record kit not necessary stock, but some real suspension up front... yes!  I like the rest.  ;-T

[jas67]

Record kit not necessary stock, but some real suspension up front... yes!  I like the rest.  ;-T

I can agree with this.   I wasn't thinking about suspension when I wrote this, but, yes the front suspension is a bit weak for a bike called, "Racer".

[rocker59]

I liked it ten years ago when the limited edition models came with Ohlins suspension.

The V7 Racer should lose the chrome tank.

The V7 Racer should gain new hemi heads, Ohlins suspension (front and rear), and dual front disk brakes.

[JeffOlson]

I was just at my dealer this morning (Moto Guzzi Portland). The red frame and wheel hubs of the V7 Racer are stunning! I need them. That chrome tank could be repainted if one dislikes chrome...

[RickTReloaded]

I liked it ten years ago when the limited edition models came with Ohlins suspension.

The V7 Racer should lose the chrome tank.

The V7 Racer should gain new hemi heads, Ohlins suspension (front and rear), and dual front disk brakes.

Would be a fun bike...  How much should Guzzi charge for this premium upgrade?

[pocphil]

I just took a run on both the Mk1 and the Mk2, and 65 mph on the mk1 was 4500 rpm
65 mph on the mk2 was 4500 rpm - I'll post photos as soon as I get them on my website.
Ergos are definitly different, feet are a little lower, I'm 6'1 with a 34" inseam and never had a problem with my knees being anywhere near the heads, but this motor is definitely lower/ more forward.

What the mk2 has accomplished is creating a fire-sale mentality at my shop, we're doing $1000 off ALL in stock v7's that aren't mk2's. Considering the Mk2 is $500 more than a Mk1, you're saving $1500. The 2014's and 15's also qualify for the 0.99% financing, so there's definitely an advantage in going for the remaining Mk1's.

Phil Waters
www.clevelandmoto.c om

[Murray]

Some euro bikes meet the beginner license requirements by 'dumbing down' the ECU to limit output.  As I recall, BMW did that with the 650 singles.  Guzzi could still bump the displacement but limit the horsepower on a beginner version.

Peter Y.

Its normally a cc and HP limit which the current V7 doesn't meet, 150kw per tonne no more than 660 cc for example.

[jas67]

I liked it ten years ago when the limited edition models came with Ohlins suspension.

The V7 Racer should lose the chrome tank.

The V7 Racer should gain new hemi heads, Ohlins suspension (front and rear), and dual front disk brakes.

Oh, now we're talking!     :drool

Yes, lose the chrome tank, keep the Verde one.
Hemi heads, Ohlins suspension front and rear, and dual front disks.   Yes, Yes, YES!!!!