V-twin (Guzzi) vs Flat-twin (BMW)

[Cool Runnings]

Which one moves yer soul more?

How did BMW get all that hp out of the new boxer twin?

[Sheepdog]

I was an Airhead lover for years, but BMW lost me with their offerings of the last twenty years. My two-valve big block is now the owner of my motorcycling heart...and likely to hold that job for quite a while.

[webmost]

Which one moves yer soul more?

How did BMW get all that hp out of the new boxer twin?

Neither

RPMs

[oldbike54]

Which one moves yer soul more?

How did BMW get all that hp out of the new boxer twin?

 Both , for different reasons .

 As for the HP question , modern combustion chambers , modern bore/stroke ratios , good cam profiles , etc .

 Dusty

[Dilliw]

Which one moves yer soul more?

How did BMW get all that hp out of the new boxer twin?

My buddy has a '15 GS 1200 and we swapped bikes for a run down Wolf Pen Gap.  The GS supposedly has 10 more hp than my Griso but if it's there I never found it.  It's smooth and free reving but it doesn't instill any emotional response like the rollered 8V. 

His motor just detonated by the way.  Luckily it was under warranty.

[guzzisteve]

When I was wrenching at a Guzzi/BMW shop in IL in 1990 the owner wanted me to talk to a customer about what he should buy. As he watched me I said "What do you want? A quarter of a V8 or a half of a Volkswagen motor."  Shop owner was pissed. Hey, it is what it is.

[bad Chad]

The made me laugh!!, Great answer Steve!

[Mark Harpell]

When I was wrenching at a Guzzi/BMW shop in IL in 1990 the owner wanted me to talk to a customer about what he should buy. As he watched me I said "What do you want? A quarter of a V8 or a half of a Volkswagen motor."  Shop owner was pissed. Hey, it is what it is.

This is my first guzzi after twenty some other bikes and the first thing I thought of when I ran up the motor was "sounds like 1/4 of a small block Chevy".   IMHO a BMW sounds like a BMW.....its o.k. but doesnt strike me......I really enjoy my Jackal and I will own another Guzzi.....none of the Beemers are calling my name...at least at this point...

[Cal3]

I have both.....the BMW does chew up miles nicely......but the Guzzi has more attitude. 

[Bill929]

The Guzzi definitely has more character, but my 2015 GS has 116 BHP (at the rear wheel) and loves to chew up highway miles and will climb steep gravel fire roads with ease.  FWIW, I never liked the older boxers that much, but the new water cooled versions are very nice engines...  And I think the water cooling has something to do with the ability to extract more HP/Liter.  Exhaust note cannot compare to the Guzzi though. 

[exiledrebel]

Cal 3 sums it up perfectly. I sold an R1150 to buy my Morge. The BNW was slightly better in ride and handling but had no mechanical character at all. It was smooth to the point of offering no involvement to the rider. I think the Guzzi's build quality might even be a bit higher.

I still have my old R75/5 that has a lot of character, but that really isn't a direct comparison.
Greg

[Chuck in Indiana]

Yer kidding, right? 

[waxi]

I tried R Nine T last year I think. Very balanced bike. Center of gravity is much lower on flat-twin. For me it felt feather light...

[Kev m]

I tried R Nine T last year I think. Very balanced bike. Center of gravity is much lower on flat-twin. For me it felt feather light...

I find that ironic because I remember how relatively heavy my R1100RS felt compared to my actually heavier but lower center of gravity Harley Road King.

[Bulldog9]

Which one moves yer soul more?

How did BMW get all that hp out of the new boxer twin?

You ask this in a Guzzi Forum? 

[oldbike54]

You ask this in a Guzzi Forum? 

 Lots of Beemer guys here also , like me . Just don't tell Chuckie , great guy , but it seems his days on Ducatis have scrambled his brains a bit 

 Dusty

[Huzo]

It's amazing to me that the human ear can pick the subtle differences in the firing intervals of the 360 deg BMW and that of the Guzzi even at higher revs. I wonder if my Norge had individual crank pins and a re phased crank so that it had the same intervals as the Beemer, would I like it as much ? I think not. Given that the BMW has the same firing intervals as a CB 200 Honda etc.... How could it sound like anything other than a parallel twin with it's inherent " blandness", although while typing it occurred to me that I didn't feel that way about old Triumph Bonnies. I swear my mates R 1100 S sounds like it revs higher at 100 k's than my Norge but they're near as dammit to the same. BTW my 07 Norge will JUST beat his beautifully maintained BMW from 80 to 190 in a top gear roll on or "any gear you like" drag, does that surprise ? It did me.

[Triple Jim]

It's amazing to me that the human ear can pick the subtle differences in the firing intervals of the 360 deg BMW and that of the Guzzi even at higher revs.

I'm always amazed at that too, Huzo.  When I'm out on my bicycle, I can easily tell the V-twin Briggs and Stratton rider mowers from the others, too.  I have one here, and it's a 90 degree V twin with a single crank pin.

[JJ]

I have both.....the BMW does chew up miles nicely......but the Guzzi has more attitude.

I have owned 5 Guzzi's and 4 airhead Beemers - - and agree with Cal3...but I would add the Guzzi's have more "soul" :1: 

This was my last Beemer, '78 R100RS "Motorsport Edition"...and it was a good bike... :1:

[Sheepdog]

It's amazing to me that the human ear can pick the subtle differences in the firing intervals of the 360 deg BMW and that of the Guzzi even at higher revs. I wonder if my Norge had individual crank pins and a re phased crank so that it had the same intervals as the Beemer, would I like it as much ? I think not. Given that the BMW has the same firing intervals as a CB 200 Honda etc.... How could it sound like anything other than a parallel twin with it's inherent " blandness", although while typing it occurred to me that I didn't feel that way about old Triumph Bonnies.

All Meriden and a large number of Hinckley Bonnevilles have 360 degree engines. BMW 247 engines and Honda 200s have 180 degree engines. The difference in the exhaust report is unmistakeable...

[Triple Jim]

Ninja 250 and 300 also have 180 degree cranks.  It makes them sound like Hondas, at least up to about 10,000 RPM.  Since the redline is at 14,000, they sort of run out of the Honda sound up there.   

[chuck peterson]

Well the /2 was my favorite, until I discovered the incredible braking power of the V700....!

[OlDogface]

I rode a Beemer. Once.

I bought a Moto Guzzi after one ride.

Does that answer the question?

[Chuck in Indiana]

I had my second beemer (I'm a slow learner)    when I first rode a Guzzi. <shrug> Never have looked back. I'm on number 13 now, small blocks, big blocks, 2V, 4V. Loved every one of them.

[drdwb]

One of my riding buddies has a R1200r it always sounded like a sewing machine with the stock exhaust, like most beemers  do to me. He paid close to $1000.00 for an Akrapovic slip on and it still didn't sound as nice as my 2 valve 07  Norge.  And while I have grown to accept the somewhat wimpy sound of my Norge,I often wish my Norge could sound more like my stock 03 EV without putting money into it.  But honestly , I still really like the  deep throaty sound when I grab a hand full of throttle of my 1979 Yamaha XS 750 Special with stock exhaust and K&N air cleaners , to each his own. 
Never had a Beemer, never really wanted one.

[Cal3]

I have owned 5 Guzzi's and 4 airhead Beemers - - and agree with Cal3...but I would add the Guzzi's have more "soul" :1: 

This was my last Beemer, '78 R100RS "Motorsport Edition"...and it was a good bike... :1:

Iam with ya.....interesting too.....both of these bikes are an "acquired taste" and once you have it......its hard to shake it.....

[Antiquar]

I have owned 5 Guzzi's and 4 airhead Beemers - - and agree with Cal3...but I would add the Guzzi's have more "soul" :1: 

This was my last Beemer, '78 R100RS "Motorsport Edition"...and it was a good bike... :1:

That's certainly a handsome bike.

BMWs have a quiet, understated, charm. I've enjoyed every boxer twin I've ridden, and sometimes even miss my old R1100R. If I didn't have a Guzzi I'd surely still own one. Nice bikes--they just aren't as engaging, in a very visceral way, compared to their Italian cousin.

[jas67]

All Meriden and a large number of Hinckley Bonnevilles have 360 degree engines. BMW 247 engines and Honda 200s have 180 degree engines. The difference in the exhaust report is unmistakeable...

Actually the Honda 200 (twin) has a 360 degree engine same as the as does their 175cc and 160cc twins that preceeded them.

The 305 Dream engine is also a 360 degree twin.
The 305 Scrambler and Superhawk engines are 180 degree.
The 350, 360, 450, and 500 twins are all 180 degree as well.

[motogman]

I was riding a 650 Yamaha and bought a 71 Eldorado....  Been riding em every since.  Have swaped rides with Bemmer buddies and a few Harlies and other assorted 2 wheelers.  Still riding em.  Oh...  that Eldo was in 81 - a ten year old bide at that time.   

Mostly it is the estectics and character of the design, along with the fact that they are few and far between... and that there are characters like you on them.   

[Sasquatch Jim]

DRDWB, your XS 750 might sound nice but it can't sound like a Guzzi or airhead Beemer.  After all, it has three cylinders.