The why thread , wherein we answer all of the important questions of the day ,

[oldbike54]

 So I've been reticent to give the real answer as to why HD's are so heavy , but my Pan Head riding buddy told me this years ago . Each component on a Harley must be built heavy , so that when a given part vibrates off and hits the pavement it won't break   

 Dusty

[fotoguzzi]

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[jas67]

Well, in the California's defense it IS 700+# bike with a 200/60-16 rear wheel vs. my Sporty which I think was rated at about 585# wet and that weight was with a 140/90-16.

So the Cali is bigger overall and carrying more weight, and that 57# is a slightly smaller percentage of the total weight (8.1% vs 8.5%).

But yeah, that's big too.

The steel-rimmed wire wheels on my 2009 V7C felt pretty heavy.    Any idea what they weigh?   Or, what the cast alloy, and alloy rimmed wire wheels of the V7 Stone and Special weigh?

[leafman60]

I've been thinking about life beyond my soon-to-be-five-year-old Stelvio. I've been looking about for something reliable.

Of late, my attention has fallen upon the new Honda Africatwin.  I've never been much of a Japanese bike fan but I HAVE owned a few.

The reviews of the AT (that's what the cool writers call it) are generally good.  The "automatic" DCT version gets a good plug from the media too.  Oh, DCT stand for Dual Clutch Transmission.

The bike puts out 85 horsepower from a parallel, vertical twin with a 270 degree crank that produces a lumpy cadence to the motor.

Ok, cut to the bottom line.  When I last weighed my Stelvio full of fuel, it came it at 625-640 pounds (not far below my Harley Super Glide).

The manual transmission version of the new Honda weighs in at 515 pounds, wet, according to Honda.  The DCT is slightly more. This is stripped.

So to make it sorta comparable to the Stelvio lets add:

1. Centerstand (gotta keep that drive chain lubed)   est 20 pounds

2. Aluminum bags ( I like Jesses)     est 40-50 pounds with racks

3. Some aux lights and maybe a small engine guard  est 10 pounds

4.  Camelback aux tank with 2 gallons    est 20 pounds

Adding all those items up gives me about 90-100 pounds of added weight and takes the Honda up to a theoretical weight of about 615-20 pounds which is darn close to the weight of my Stelvio (and not far below my Super Glide). Couple this with the fact that the Honda is about 25 horsepower short of the Stelvio power output.

So, the popular Honda's apple is not a shiny to me when I try to compare it to other apples.

Why are they so heavy???  In spite of all that plastic!

.

[jas67]

Don't remember where this article was (probably Cycle World) , but years ago , 1982 maybe, there was a story similar to this topic . Except ... the question was , "why are Japanese motorcycles so large and heavy?"  The proffered answers ran from , "They must think all Americans are giants "  , to "It is hard to place large 4 cylinder engines in a small light package" . Of course they were discussing bikes that would be considered fairly svelte and small by modern non-sportbike standards .

 Dusty

I currently have a 1979 CB750 (for sale) that weighs about 20# less than Kev's 1200 Sportster, but, it CB750 feels WAY heavier to lift off the side stand, and is a complete beast to get onto its center stand.

It has a MUCH higher CG than the Sportster.

[TobyJug]

I don't remember much plastic on the sportster I had.

 

[Kev m]

The steel-rimmed wire wheels on my 2009 V7C felt pretty heavy.    Any idea what they weigh?   Or, what the cast alloy, and alloy rimmed wire wheels of the V7 Stone and Special weigh?

I didn't weigh the Stone rear wheel (or front) when I had it off, but I remember it being fairly light (of course that's easy when comparing to a Harley boat anchor).

I also remember the initial model info on the Stone/Special/Racer mentioned new lighter wheels

[Kev m]

Good point, kinda like what I was saying about Harleys in the HD heavy thread.

We sometimes get the wrong impressions.

[OlDogface]

Its all the history and heritage Honda's drag behind....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ck9wBHW2160

:-)

[LowRyter]

I'll disagree. 

I think the Africa Twin is probably the best balanced and lightest Adv bike in it's class. 

[leafman60]

I'll disagree. 

I think the Africa Twin is probably the best balanced and lightest Adv bike in it's class.

The numbers speak for themselves.

One thing that I've read is that the Africatwin is made to be very skinny at the rider pocket.  More than one tester says that it fools you into thinking it's smaller than it really is. It's a 515 pound bike, stripped bare.

[LowRyter]

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."

Mark Twain

[leafman60]

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."

Mark Twain

Well, yes, but with bikes the numbers from the manufacturer are usually very optimistic.  That thing could actually weigh 550 pounds, stripped !

[oldbike54]

 Twas probably Disraeli who first said that , just to further confuse the issue 

 Dusty

[Scud]

I too am intrigued by the Africa Twin. I would go for the standard (not DCT) version. I think your estimates of the weights of your accessories are quite high. Maybe a little research on those items would be helpful. If you're looking to drop weight, there's probably a lighter exhaust in the aftermarket.

[alanp]

Well, rather than comparing the bikes based on a bunch of made up and guessed numbers, why not just compare the weights of the bikes?  I looked them up on the Cycle World comparison site.  The 2016 Honda Africa Twin is listed at 503 and the 2012 Stelvio is listed at 598.  That is a huge difference.  I don't know for sure that it is accurate, but at least it is an "apples to apples" comparison from a third party website. 

Based on that site, the Honda seems to be lightest "full size" adventure bike.  The KTM's come close. 

[fotoguzzi]

  the Honda seems to be lightest "full size" adventure bike.  The KTM's come close.

so what is not full size about a DR650? maybe low on HP but well under 400#..
it's SIMPLE, bullet proof, and can give you more adventure than any of the "full size" bikes you speak of..
I have one.. don't miss the HP, it goes 80 on the freeway all day and the lesser weight makes it a pleasure to push around. Sometimes I miss power of a good V-twin but I don't miss the heft..

[stevet]

A couple of Guzzi clowns take an Africa Twin for a stroll  in Minnesota Motorcycle Monthly.

http://mnmotorcycle.com/september-2016-bike-review-2016-honda-africa-twin/

Steve.

[beetle]

Shouldn't this thread be titled "why are Honda's so boring?"   

[Scud]

so what is not full size about a DR650? maybe low on HP but well under 400#..
it's SIMPLE, bullet proof, and can give you more adventure than any of the "full size" bikes you speak of..
I have one.. don't miss the HP, it goes 80 on the freeway all day and the lesser weight makes it a pleasure to push around. Sometimes I miss power of a good V-twin but I don't miss the heft..

Good looking DR (I don't say that very frequently).

I rode a DR650 in some technical dirt areas once - while my friend rode my Husqvarna. Obviously, the DR was no match for the Husky on the single track, rocks and ruts, but... I was really impressed with it. It just tractors over everything - and I'm sure I could pick it up if I was out riding trails by myself and dropped it. I've dropped heavier ADV bikes downhill and needed help to set them up. For comparison, my Husky weighs about 250 pounds. It'll do 80 just fine - but it's no road bike.

The DR is practical, but the AT is cool.

[pete roper]

David, one of my cousins in the UK has one of the auto ones. I saw it last week and would of loved to have taken it for a blast but had no gear and it was getting dark. What struck me most was how bloody inaccessible everything looked. It would be a nightmare to service I'm sure.

I did quite like the way it looks though. (Cringes with shame! )

Pete

[fotoguzzi]

The DR is practical, but the AT is cool.

yeah it's very appliance like.. not sexy at all like a Guzzi or Buell.. but I know it will always start and get me anywhere I want to go.. perfect commuter and cuts thru rush hour like a knife.. the bad? it has a chain, carb and tube tires but 50+mpg so over 230 to reserve on aftermarket 5 gal tank I like that.

[Tom]

So if HD built bikes with better steel alloys, their bikes would weigh less, right?  They'd cost more too.  Like they don't already. 

[Tom]

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 :1:

[Kev m]

Well, rather than comparing the bikes based on a bunch of made up and guessed numbers, why not just compare the weights of the bikes?  I looked them up on the Cycle World comparison site.  The 2016 Honda Africa Twin is listed at 503 and the 2012 Stelvio is listed at 598.  That is a huge difference.  I don't know for sure that it is accurate, but at least it is an "apples to apples" comparison from a third party website. 

Based on that site, the Honda seems to be lightest "full size" adventure bike.  The KTM's come close.

Does CW list their own measured wet weights or are they parroting OEM specs?

[leafman60]

Well, rather than comparing the bikes based on a bunch of made up and guessed numbers, why not just compare the weights of the bikes?  I looked them up on the Cycle World comparison site.  The 2016 Honda Africa Twin is listed at 503 and the 2012 Stelvio is listed at 598.  That is a huge difference.  I don't know for sure that it is accurate, but at least it is an "apples to apples" comparison from a third party website. 

Based on that site, the Honda seems to be lightest "full size" adventure bike.  The KTM's come close.

Here we go again.

The weight spec for the 2012 Stelvio is for the Stelvio NTX and it INCLUDES the weight of all the stock items on the NTX such as aluminum bags, crash bars, aux lights, skid plate etc.

As with the BMW GS, the Honda Africa Twin comes stock without those things and they are not included in the weight.

So, okay lets take the weights presented here 503 vs 598.  That's a 95 pound difference.  Adding all the accessories to the Honda to make it comparable to the Stelvio would easily put it in very close range to the weight of the Guzzi. 

.

[Rough Edge racing]

 So 515 pounds is the new 350 ? 

[leafman60]

So 515 pounds is the new 350 ? 

LOL

Apparently, for a lot of people.

[webmost]

Could always pick up a KLR for chump change, 433 wet. A pre-2008 model like mine was 384 wet. I took off the front fairing and the frame bits that held that, and tossed another forty right there. These critters not only can, but daily do, all the round the world adventure you can dream up.

[steven c]

 Nice KLR. Buell headlights?