Small Block Guys - Why?

[Kev m]

OK, I've been looking for an angle on a future Revzilla article based on what seems to me to be a growing popularity of smaller displacement bikes such as the Guzzi smallblock, the Duc Scrambler, Triumph Bonnies, heck even the Harley Sportsters and much of JAPanInc's sub liter line.

So is that a correct impression (that they are becoming more popular in the face of bigger, faster, more capable machines)?

And if you are one who has either forsaken larger bikes or who finds a preference for these smaller machines, why?

I'd really like some testimonials from people (preferably all over the world) who are willing to answer some questions.

Let me know here, and if you might want to participate (answer a half dozen or so questions in an email and maybe provide a pic or two of yourself and your bike) let me know in a PM.

So how about it, WHY?

[fotoguzzi]

I went smaller to loose about 160 pounds.

[sidecarnutz]

As I have gotten older and less able, bikes that are just over the top stupidly capable hold less attraction to me. I prefer KISS bikes that I can just enjoy the scenery on and not have to worry about changing software to work out a flat spot in the FI mapping.
My go to bike the past couple years has been a old Royal Enfield Bullet 500. I can't believe how much I can have with just 20 hp! Super light handling but not quite twitchy. Its like I stuffed a lawn mower engine into a ten speed bikes frame.

[Testarossa]

Agree with Sidecar. At age 68 I don't have anything to prove -- certainly no longer interested in The Ton. I'm very happy two-up on the Mille (about 540 lb, I think) but for around town, the F650 (about 420 lb) and TR6R (about 410 lb) are easier to park and center-stand. Next acquisition will be a 250 dual-sport, at maybe 325 lb. I can scare myself witless on any of these machines AND do all the maintenance myself without have to swap out expensive electronics.

Looking back at it, I had more fun than I could stand on the Sprint (325 lb) and CB500 Four (about 450 lb I think). With fuel, the Laverda and Suzuki were 500-lb bikes. The Yamaha: 200 lb.

[Triple Jim]

So is that a correct impression (that they are becoming more popular in the face of bigger, faster, more capable machines)?

Less capable?  I guess you're goading us.     My eyes were opened when a friend suggested I try his 100cc 2-stroke yamaha on the Dragon a few years ago.  That was an extreme example of a small motorcycle being more fun in certain situations than a big one.  And I mean a lot more fun.  I was actually laughing out loud in my helmet as I dared to take curves at speeds I wouldn't try on a big bike.  I'm not sure precisely why smaller motorcycles are becoming popular now, but maybe one reason is that they're being made in large quantities for markets in developing countries, so they're now widely available at low prices.  I'm really glad they are though, and am thinking of buying bikes like the KTM390, the Yamaha FZ-07, and others in the sub-400 lb. category.  I'm also enjoying my 320 lb naked Ninja 250 I set up for my daughter to ride, and that I ride more than she does.

If I wanted to ride to California and back, I'd take my Mille, but when I want to ride 100 miles on twisty, hilly roads, I'd much rather ride a smaller motorcycle, because it's more fun.

[Groover]

Not interview worthy information, but I love jumping on my old Vespas and prefer them over the Guzzi in many situations, like running to the grocery store around the corner. Feels less stressful to ride at times, and then I get renewed reward when I ride the guzzi again after the Vespa, so it's a constant win-win.

May not be the same for smaller motorcycles you're inquiring about, but what's nice about the Vespa, or at least the models I own is that you can sit a bag of charcoal, or a 12-pack soda pack on the floorboards and go.. Sometimes both those things at once, and sometimes even more!

[Chuck in Indiana]

Well, let's face it, Kev.. the motorcycle riding public is ageing. Even the go fast guys I see out in SoCal are normally "older" guys. As we age, along with wisdom comes a lessening of physical ability. The Mighty Scura is about the limit of the bike I can (barely) comfortably handle, move around in the Guzzi Garage (tm) etc. at my tender age. That won't last forever...
The Aero Lario is more than capable with roughly 150 lbs. less mass.
Thinking ahead a bit, I finally found a Monza that is still a perfectly capable sport tourer and even lighter. Putting it on the center stand feels like a bicycle in comparison. Handling is more than very good for an antique machine. It has the sweet running 500cc engine with a 9K redline. What's not to like? 
2016-08-18_02-45-05 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr

[steven c]

 I have my Uly and LeMans and Eldorado all which I love riding for differnt reasons but I get just as much satisfaction riding my 88 XT350 and 73 F7 175, you can run them to red line and your not doing 100, light and easy to ride and on a lot of the back roads around here (Conn) you  you don't need anything more,small bikes just fun to ride. I test rode Yamahas FZ7 when it came out and that click a lot of the right buttons.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

My (82 yr. old) buddy Leo recently traded his (California) Yamaha Super Tenere in on a Triumph 800 XRT which has nearly the same hp, but weighs ~ 100 lbs. less. I wonder if he'll do the same with his (Maryland) Super Tenere. 

[Darmie]

It was approximately 2006 /2008 or so, I was riding a Honda Sabre.


Few years into ownership it was totaled. While taking a trip to deals gap, 14 miles from our stay, a rider coming down the hill using front brakes only slid into my path. I had a few years off bike to think of my next purchase. I looked at many and wanted to try something different. I wanted to try a more natural seating position. I didn't have a lot of disposable income, so I looked at the TU250. From Adventure rider, it was a fun bike to own.  Against all my bike friends advise, I still made the purchase in 2011. We all found that it was the most fun to ride bike of them all. Define fun? Put it in a corner, give it gas and come out smiling while hitting the next curve. Now onto new life and new wife, 11,000 miles later I was finding I could use a little more power on these big open Texas roads.  What is on the market that is as much fun as the TU but with just a tad more power? I looked for years. When the V7 II came out, I did some more note taking. It appeared that it was not a power house but it did not come with a lot of extra weight. As you see from the picture, it's very close on comparison to the TU in size and seating position. 



I just love the ease of cornering and the fun you can have on a low weight bike.

Don't get me wrong, I also enjoy our  Wing. At 940 pounds, it's a different class of riding although you can still get jiggy with it. The Wing makes for the perfect 2 up riding and we do a lot of that as well.

[DucDucGuzz]

I have a couple other bikes with considerably more power than my humble V7 Stone, but when I walk into my garage, the Guzzi is the machine that leaves with me 95% of the time. Why? Because it does everything I ask of it (tour, weekend canyon carving, coffee shop posing, trackdays this year!)... and does it in style, at less cost, whilst still delivering wicked smile-inducing fun.

* But I also wouldn't mind a new, 150hp 2017 Ducati Monster 1200S. Hahaha...

[Socalrob]

59 years old here.  By far most of my riding is along two routes - my 7 mile commute to work (I moved my office from 2.5 miles from my house to 7 miles so my bikes could truly warm up) which I liken to having a fun ski run before and after work, and some various 60-100 mile loops up Angeles Crest Highway, one of the absolute best motorcycle roads in the entire world, that I live 1/2 mile from the universal meetup Shell Station.

My current big bike is a 2007 BMW GS Adventure, which is ok at both tasks, but really, is a bit of a pig, especially moving around in the garage.

When my son was twenty and in a rough patch, I sold my Hypermotard 1100 and bought a Husky TR650 for him as his first street bike.  The Husky was an eye opener.  55HP, about 425lbs, dead on smooth single.  It was just a riot on the Crest.  Went from me riding ahead of son watching him in my mirrors to a year later me riding behind him with him waiting for me from time to time as I cant keep up.  I cursed BMW for selling Husky and making that bike an orphan.

I liked that bike so much, I bought a KTM 690 Enduro.  Again, single cylinder 650 which makes 65HP.  The 690 is great, but is more vibey than I would like.

What I like about these smaller bikes is when you are doing 85, you know it.  Big bikes you twist the throttle and before you know it, you are easily over 100, which in CA can be a stupid serious ticket adventure (DAMHIK).  Small bikes you can row them through the gears pinning the throttle.  Easy to roll around the garage, easy off the side stand, easy through traffic, easy to split lanes.  Easier on tires. Easy on fuel.  Easy on insurance.  It's really hard to find a down side.  And, riding on the Crest, it is a joy to be on a bike that forces you to corner better as you don't have the HP to wick it up to insane speeds on the straights.

I'm in limbo right now, waiting for the new V7iii's to show up.  Seems to me it could be an ideal bike for me to keep into my 70's. 

[Triple Jim]

What I like about these smaller bikes is when you are doing 85, you know it.  Big bikes you twist the throttle and before you know it, you are easily over 100, which in CA can be a stupid serious ticket adventure (DAMHIK).  Small bikes you can row them through the gears pinning the throttle.

That's the classic argument that I've come to agree with, "It's more fun to ride a slow bike fast than it is to ride a fast bike slow."  I guess where you draw the line between slow and fast bikes is up to the rider, however.  :)

[Testarossa]

Bottom line: It's more fun to ride a slow bike fast than a fast bike slow.

And if you don't believe it, you haven't tried it.

[Bravo Sierra]

Sure would love to participate.
Bikes have gotten more powerful, larger in displacement and heavier since I started riding in the late 60’s. Some of it has been a welcome change like reliability and stability on the interstate but the assumption was we (motorcycle buying public, emphases on buying) wanted more power. We did think CB750 and the KZ900 and as time progressed bikes got bigger and more powerful. Large numbers of CB, KZ, GS and FZ bikes where sold in the 1000CC+ range. Then there is the cruiser world where heaver seems to be better, I’m lost here. I went along with the trend until about 5 years ago when I realized that I was having no fun on my K1200 in the twisties and would look down at the speedo and see I was doing 100+ mph. The next revelation was the 1050 Sprint , accelerated on to the interstate going to work straight across 3 lanes and away from all the cars looked down an realized I was doing 140MPH! Both bikes were sold.  I have found that my V7 and Bonneville have ample power for whatever it is I want to do.

Bob

[alanp]

Kev,
I have most recently been riding a V11 Lemans, and an 1100 Griso.  I have just purchased a V7II Stone.  Factors in my decision to go small block include:
1.  Age/ comfort/ bike weight.  These are all related.  As we age, cramped riding positions are less tolerable and detract from enjoyment.  Heavier bikes become harder to manage. 
2.  Fuel economy/ range.  I ride a lot, and spend too much time getting gas.  I like having a 200 mile range.
3.  Power is less important than it used to be. 
4.  I want to ride dirt roads, but have never been comfortable on loose gravel.  The V7 isn't designed for "off road", but it is a good size - big enough to get there on the highway, small and light enough to be easily managed once there.  The tallness of Adventure bikes like a Wee Strom are actually more difficult for me to manage on dirt.
5.  Simplicity.  Guzzis have an old school simplistic engine.  Combined with shaft drive, it makes for a very practical and pleasing platform.  BMW airhead simple, yet modern in ways that make sense like ABS. 

[Socalrob]

Kev,
I have most recently been riding a V11 Lemans, and an 1109 Griso.  I have just purchased a V7II Stone.  Factors in my decision to go small block include:
1.  Age/ comfort/ bike weight.  These are all related.  As we age, cramped riding positions are less tolerable and detract from enjoyment.  Heavier bikes become harder to manage. 
2.  Fuel economy/ range.  I ride a lot, and spend too much time getting gas.  I like having a 200 mile range.
3.  Power is less important than it used to be. 
4.  I want to ride dirt roads, but have never been comfortable on loose gravel.  TheV7 isn't designed for "off road", but it is a good size - big enough to get there on the highway, small and light enough to be easily managed once there.  The tallness of Adventure bikes like a Wee Strom are actually more difficult for me to manage on dirt.
5.  Simplicity.  Guzzis have an old school simplistic engine.  Combined with shaft drive, it makes for a very practical and pleasing platform.  BMW airhead simple, yet modern in ways that make sense like ABS.

The combination of a big 5.3 (or is it 5.8) gallon tank on a small block bike is a huge draw to me, a GS Adventure rider (I can often put 9 gallons in my 8.7 gallon tank).  As I commute by bike, the bigger tank is really nice for some range.  My old Hyoermotard needed gas at between 75 and 85 miles.  Terrible.  My KTM 690 also has a small tank.  Guzzi seems the only manufacturer smart enough to up the tank size on a small bike.

[not-fishing]

Kev,

Some of us are old school Environmentalists where less is more.

My hunting dogs are spaniels because they eat less than half of what a Lab eats, my hunting shotgun is a 20 ga because I don't want to tear up the bird along with being easier to carry.

I dispute those who claim motorcyclists are getting markedly older.   My wife is a tennis bum and you'd be surprised at how many people compete in tennis at over 60 years old.  Older people doing things they like is just a reality of present day USA.  Not everyone want to sit in a rocking chair and watch Soaps.

Finally only in the US do we need big V8's in cars most of the rest of the world get's by with 4 cylinders or even 3 cylinders.  Sure the big V8 is great for long runs on the Highway but the last long run I made to get my Lemans was with an I6 Jeep (4,000+ miles round trip).   still you'll have to pry my '05 Caddy CTS-V out of my cold dead hands

[DucDucGuzz]

Gratuitous shot of my beauty...

[huub]

i have a couple of faster bikes, but for regular riding they are not worth the hassle.
a smaller bike is just more fun 99% of the time
The most fun i had with the morini 350 on small roads , that was like throwing a 35 hp mountain bike around.
but on highways it was too buzzy.
my current lario ( and the pretty similar V7) is somewhere in the middle, it does everything, it is light enough to throw it around and fast enough for highways.

[Muzz]

I did over 200,000 miles on a 12hp 350. Who needs kazillion hp to get from A to B. I would not expect any bike to match the 600 odd mile range of that one.

The B750 is just a nice size bike, powerful enough for me with very pleasant delivery of power, a nice balanced weight and is extremely comfortable. It does 240 miles on a tank which is getting towards respectable. Whats not to like?

[SmithSwede]

Kev:

Happy to assist.  Please PM if you have any follow-up questions.

For me it's all about LIGHT WEIGHT along with a physically small bike. Lower mass/size is critically important to me---these are key variables that drive whether I'll enjoy riding and using a bike.

I've had bigger, more powerful bikes.  Yamaha FJR, BMW 1200GS, Suzuki GS1100E.   I eventually discovered that I prefer lighter bikes for all around use, up to and including long distance touring (1 up).  400 pounds or less is ideal.  No more than 450.

Small block Guzzi is like an old BMW airhead in that it's one of the few bikes that has such a relatively low weight/size, combined with real world features such as shaft drive, large gas tank, ease of maintenance, etc.

I also thoroughly enjoy a 2012 Kawasaki Ninja 250 for all purpose riding, including longer trips.  That thing is amazingly capable and just an all around hoot to ride.

Light is where it's at for me. 

But I also really like Guzzis in general. May one day try a big block, just out of curiosity.

[kingoffleece]

I got nothing.  These guys said it all perfect.

[charlie b]

When I started riding a 600-750 was a BIG bike with a ton of power.  And my 500 was a 'sport' bike.  350's were common as commuters and 250's were the common off road bike.  A few years later and the liter bikes show up.  500's are only good for dirt and everyone is looking for more than 100hp.

There never was a reason to go to bikes with over 100hp.  But, people will be people and some want to be the fastest thing out there, or be able to scare themselves every now and then, or show off to the 'lesser' people with not as much power.

I read a post in another forum about a guy who was pondering another car purchase.  Should he put out the money for the newest high performance vette or should he add mods to his 500hp mustang so it would be as fast as the vette.  Someone asked him why he needed all that hp and he just could not answer the question.  Even admitted the last time he used full throttle he almost went off the road, but, he still wanted more.

[rodekyll]

At least in the example of Guzzi, I don't think it's true that they are becoming more popular in the face of larger, more capable machines.  The small block used to be a 350, didn't it?  Now it's a -- what -- 900?  Instead of becoming more popular in the face of the bigger machines, they are themselves becoming the bigger machines.  It's the V700 history repeating itself.

I could pick apart the street offerings of the major factories, but you can probably connect the dots faster than I can type.  The upshot is that historically, factories don't ask how they can put LESS horsepower and torque into an existing machine, and Guzzi is a perfect example.

$0.02

[ITSec]

I don't currently have one in the stable, bit I will again. One of the most enjoyable bikes I've ever owned was a DRZ400 Super Motard. Light, quick, flickable, nimble - just an absolutely fun bike. It'll be a dead heat to see whether I get one again before I get a Stelvio, but something down in that sub-500cc class is going to be taking up space in the garage.

My first two bikes were a Suzi X6 Hustler (250) and a Yamaha RD400D - and the love of small bikes has never left me.

The only thing that puts me off bikes with smaller engines is that they tend to be bikes with smaller frames - I liked my Breva 750 enough to keep it for six years, but I was never quite comfortable with how cramped my legs got.

I'm not sure whether I'd seek out a 650-900 again, though; they aren't 'different' enough from the big bikes.

[Arizona Wayne]

The majority of us here get older every year and high speed, more MC weight than our bodies are now comfortable with are over in this state of my life.  It's that simple.  Fastest bike I've ever owned was a `87 LeMans IV that would do 139 mph.  Got rid of it because on occasion I found it necessary to go there.  Nowadays I rarely find it necessary to get to 100 mph and only for  a short time, like to pass another vehicle on a 2 lane road.  At 73 yo my body strength ain't what it used to be and anything over 400# feels too heavy for me now, except for my MP3 scooters which with 3 wheels make their extra weight insignificant   My current `77 Convert. is the heaviest bike I've ever owned @ 600#.  I still love to haul thru corners and can still do that at lower speeds with some of my bikes.

[Testarossa]

And that raises another point. Riders are bigger today. In 2004 the CDC reported this:

The average weight for men rose "dramatically," in the CDC's words, from 166.3 pounds in 1960 to 191 pounds in 2002.

Of course, those of us who were 5'8" and 160 lb in 1970 are probably not 6'0" and 200 lb in 2017. We liked light bikes then and still do.

The market, however, looms over us.

[ponti_33609]

Lighter bike is easier to pick up if I drop it.   :>  For me it was all about the size of the bike along with the weight.  My 1100 was very unhappy riding around under 40 most of the time.  My v7 is quite comfortable.  Handling is easier......get to ride it faster without getting into real trouble.  Just more fun all around.

[malik]

What they said, Kev.

The whole idea of riding is to have fun. For me the V7 is the package - goes everywhere, does everything, and in style. The shorter wheelbase and the lighter weight make it more chuckable in the twisties. It tours comfortably and is easy enough to work on. Every now & again I toy with the idea of another big block, but it never seems to get further than that. The 1100 Sport has a more comfortable riding position, but it's not as much fun in the tight twisties and the occasions when I actually used the available power were few. So when it came to the crunch - a big block or another V7, it was for a no-brainer.

On the other hand, the 500 Bullet is like riding a toy after the V7 - even more chuckable & shines on country roads. There's nothing like riding a thumping single through the forest - dirt or bitumen. The downside (?) of the Enfield is my reluctance to use it much on motorways - so just a little less flexible. But it is fun.

Mal