NGC: For Pete Roper, a BMW R9T Question

[Huzo]

The Roper response to the question regarding the Beemer was fabulously verbose and exaggerated in a beautiful way that Monty Python could only hope to aspire to, and probably worthless to you given that it's all perception and therefore no bloody good to anyone.
Firstly mate, don't be scared to ask for opinions here, that's mainly why Wild Guzzi exists.
Now as it happens I reckon that Beemer is ugly as a hat full af arseholes too, but that means nothing to you, I've got a cement mixer in my yard that's better looking than an Ambo yet people here revere them for some inexplicable (to me) reason.
Weak final drives ?
In some of the most remote locations I've been I see massive numbers of Beemers with monstrous miles on the clock ticking away seemingly forever, they're well respected.
Bring More Wallet ?
If you had to do a full rebuild on a new R9 or a California, I'd be interested to know what the difference would be.
You asked for an opinion and you got one, but someone (anyone) telling you something is ugly won't alter how YOU see it....Take one for a massive test ride and see what you reckon.
(That stinking fairing looks shithouse though !!!)

[Noguzznoglory]

 "Service costs will be absurd"

 as a BMW owner i heartily endorse the above statement from pete. MY main objection to BMW's

[Adk.IBO]

I have a different reason why it didn�t end up on my short list. The looks suited me, function over form. Fear of breakdown? Nah. The 2 beemers I had served me well, 26k miles on the first and 36k miles on the second. I do my own service work (most anyway). The subframe (what the seat rests on) is just crazy underbuilt for my needs. Bags look like they would break it right quick and I tow a (Bushtec) trailer. Nothing of substantial heft to fabricate a hitch to mount on it... Towed with my R1100RSL-ABS and my Norge. R9T? Not me!

Pete�s responses are so fun to read, plus I highly respect his mechanical knowledge and willingness to share it here .

[Huzo]

"Service costs will be absurd"

 as a BMW owner i heartily endorse the above statement from pete. MY main objection to BMW's

So why have you got one?
And
Do YOU think the R9 is ugly ???

[fotoguzzi]

finally someone posted a pic!

[pete roper]

Ugliness in and of itself isn't a problem. I own two Stelvios for heavens sakes, (Yes, I just bought another one, an early 'Small Tank' flat tappet model but it's only done 12,000 kms so it should be a good-un after I've rollerised it.)! The Stelvios, either the small tanks or the NTX's, are hideous! Combining all the allure of a soviet era tank with the styling points of a 1930's Dublin bread van! Both make my gorge rise to look at but at least the NTX is easy to get the tank off! The plastic crap on the small tank models makes servicing them like playing 3D Tetris blindfold and with one hand tied behind your back!

Their redeeming features are that they are stupidly robust and easy to work on and as a 'Jack of All Trades' are second to none. They also have the gorgeous 8V motor which produces prodigious torque just where you want it even if you do need a pair of platform boots that make you look like David Bowie during his 'Major Tom' phase unless you have legs like a giraffe to straddle one.

Ugly can be good! But it has to be linked with practicality and fun. The R9Turd offers neither.

Pete

[jas67]

Ugly can be good! But it has to be linked with practicality and fun. The R9Turd offers neither.

The R9T certainly offers fun, and even practicality.
H&B offers C-bow bag mounts, a rear rack (for top cases), and lock-it tang bag mounts.

[Carlo DeSantis]

PLEASE don't even consider an R9T if you're looking to mount a decent windshield and/or hang saddlebags on it.  That's not its design mission.

It is a platform designed to be customized.  I have seen an awful lot of customs built off the base R9T; most of them are quite good.  Some make me scratch my head, wondering what the builder had in mind.  The BMW "specials" built off the R9T range from pretty nice to spectacular.

IF you want the performance qualities of the R9T but want (need?) to set it up for touring with windshield and bags, consider a camhead R1200R.  Same engine; same grunt; more utility; touring-oriented tele lever front end.

Several BMW acquaintances and I own them for just that reason, and feel they are perfect for that mission.

Horses for courses and all that.

Best,

Carlo

[Socalrob]

PLEASE don't even consider an R9T if you're looking to mount a decent windshield and/or hang saddlebags on it.  That's not its design mission.

It is a platform designed to be customized.  I have seen an awful lot of customs built off the base R9T; most of them are quite good.  Some make me scratch my head, wondering what the builder had in mind.  The BMW "specials" built off the R9T range from pretty nice to spectacular.

IF you want the performance qualities of the R9T but want (need?) to set it up for touring with windshield and bags, consider a camhead R1200R.  Same engine; same grunt; more utility; touring-oriented tele lever front end.

Several BMW acquaintances and I own them for just that reason, and feel they are perfect for that mission.

Horses for courses and all that.

Best,

Carlo

Or a full on water cooled R1200RT.  I test rode one a few weeks ago and the big girl was pretty nimble and comfortable.  Brakes were about the best I have found.

[Huzo]

You're a funny bastard Roper !
I'd love to be within hearing distance of you at an Aussie rally at 1 am. A rare mix of Pommy humour and Aussie rapier wit. And a goodly deal of home truth free of charge. ( A bit subjective in places, but a great read and "ignore it at your your peril" content).
Anyway, that's what I reckon...

[Huzo]

Those things are just too.... "nice".
Not a criticism in itself but I just imagine a middle aged stockbroker from Berlin riding one in designer jeans with an inappropriately (and possibly illegally), young female on the back, (yeah I know, single seat, but I did say imagine)....
All perception though, so can't be argued with.

[OlofE]

Another perception then. Quite the opposite. I find the R9T a lot less 'nice' than the polished 8V and current V7 range - the R9T is more temperamental and rough. In a good way, a bit like the Triumph Speed Triple. The Pure, Racer and Urban G/S are also refreshingly free from compromises. I get the V7 keys when I want relaxed or just transportation, but I get the R9T when I want an engaging, focused ride. With the Griso gone and no new LeMans in sight Guzzi has nothing that can compete with the R9T.

[Huzo]

Another perception then. Quite the opposite. I find the R9T a lot less 'nice' than the polished 8V and current V7 range - the R9T is more temperamental and rough. In a good way, a bit like the Triumph Speed Triple. The Pure, Racer and Urban G/S are also refreshingly free from compromises. I get the V7 keys when I want relaxed or just transportation, but I get the R9T when I want an engaging, focused ride. With the Griso gone and no new LeMans in sight Guzzi has nothing that can compete with the R9T.

Just as valid as anyone else's opinion.

[pete roper]

How is shitty, non adjustable, 'One size fits all' suspension not a 'Compromise'? It's not Coventry in 1954! It's a global market in 2017! If you're happy with that? Fine. I prefer to keep moving forward rather than the 'One step forward, stagger back three!' epitomised by a clown's tricycle like the R9Toerag!

I'm sure it's 'Cool' if you're into that sort of thing but to my mind it's still a miserable Teutonic turd with nothing going for it.

Pete

[Kev m]

The R9T certainly offers fun, and even practicality.
H&B offers C-bow bag mounts, a rear rack (for top cases), and lock-it tang bag mounts.

Exactly....

... And Carlo, you bring up a funny point. This sacred cow in motorcycles that suggests you shouldn't "ruin" certain bikes with bags or a windshield.

Meh, a bike without bags is pretty much useless to me. And a shield of some type is usually a great comfort.

I'd bag out an R9T in a heartbeat.

Yeah the 1200R is a decent alternative too, but it's not the same thing, nor is the motor I thought, didn't it go water-cooled on the heads? That alone would make me pick the T.

That said I'd take a V7, V9, or Harley CX Roadster first anyway.

[Rough Edge racing]

How is shitty, non adjustable, 'One size fits all' suspension not a 'Compromise'? It's not Coventry in 1954! It's a global market in 2017! If you're happy with that? Fine. I prefer to keep moving forward rather than the 'One step forward, stagger back three!' epitomised by a clown's tricycle like the R9Toerag!

I'm sure it's 'Cool' if you're into that sort of thing but to my mind it's still a miserable Teutonic turd with nothing going for it.

Pete

  The Nazi's bombed the Triumph motorcycle Coventry factory and the whole operation was moved to Meriden in 1942...

[jas67]

Or a full on water cooled R1200RT.  I test rode one a few weeks ago and the big girl was pretty nimble and comfortable.  Brakes were about the best I have found.

Or the R1200RS -- lighter and sportier than the R1200RT, yet, still all-day comfortable.

[jas67]

How is shitty, non adjustable, 'One size fits all' suspension not a 'Compromise'? It's not Coventry in 1954! It's a global market in 2017! If you're happy with that? Fine. I prefer to keep moving forward rather than the 'One step forward, stagger back three!' epitomised by a clown's tricycle like the R9Toerag!

I'm sure it's 'Cool' if you're into that sort of thing but to my mind it's still a miserable Teutonic turd with nothing going for it.

Pete

It does make me scratch my head that the original R9T has fully adjustable inverted forks with radial Brembo brakes, yet, they went to the cheap conventional nonadjustable forks with regular brakes for the R9T Racer.

I get it for the Pure, as they were trying to offer a lower priced option, but, the Racer should have premium components.   Heck, even Moto Guzzi put Ohlin's shocks on the V7III Racer (though, I don't know if the fork is any better than the standard V7III).

I'd be more inclined to pick up a pre-owned '15 R9T (with the better forks and brakes), and customize it to look like (or at least similar to) the R9T Racer.

[Carlo DeSantis]

Exactly....

... And Carlo, you bring up a funny point. This sacred cow in motorcycles that suggests you shouldn't "ruin" certain bikes with bags or a windshield.

Meh, a bike without bags is pretty much useless to me. And a shield of some type is usually a great comfort.

I'd bag out an R9T in a heartbeat.

Yeah the 1200R is a decent alternative too, but it's not the same thing, nor is the motor I thought, didn't it go water-cooled on the heads? That alone would make me pick the T.

That said I'd take a V7, V9, or Harley CX Roadster first anyway.

I guess it's all a matter of taste, Kev.  While I can't imagine riding my R12R without panniers, tank bag and windshield, I can't imagine riding my T3 WITH any of that stuff.  You can imagine the bulging pockets of my leathers and the baseball cap stuffed into my pants when I'm out on the T3 :)

The current generation of R12R does indeed have the "water" cooled heads.  It's not at all the same bike as the last generation camhead I have.  I greatly prefer my last generation R12R for several reasons -- not the least of which is the air/oil cooling.  The R9T has this same camhead engine and drivetrain.

When the R9T was introduced, I thought it was a goofy bike and couldn't imagine many would be sold.  The base bike has a Steam Punk kinda aura to it that doesn't appeal to me in the least.  Apparently many others felt differently.  I still don't much care for it, though I think some of the variants are nice to look at.

Best,

Carlo

[jas67]

Yeah the 1200R is a decent alternative too, but it's not the same thing, nor is the motor I thought, didn't it go water-cooled on the heads? That alone would make me pick the T.

The R1200R is water cooled (heads) starting in 2015 (maybe 2014, I forget).    The previous post recommending the R1200R over the R9T for touring, windshields etc, specifically said the (not longer made) cam-head R1200R (2011-2014), which has the same motor the R9T.

[Kev m]

The R1200R is water cooled (heads) starting in 2015 (maybe 2014, I forget).    The previous post recommending the R1200R over the R9T for touring, windshields etc, specifically said the (not longer made) cam-head R1200R (2011-2014), which has the same motor the R9T.

Yeah I'd have to know and care that was called a camhead vs whatever the current is called to know that was what was meant lol.

Carlo, all fair differences. Cheers.

[Socalrob]

Or the R1200RS -- lighter and sportier than the R1200RT, yet, still all-day comfortable.

Forgot about the new R1200RS.  Great bike, I took a three hour test ride up Angeles Crest Highway.  Very fun, only thing is the bike did not fit me as well as I would have thought.  Which reminds me, if you test ride a BMW, make sure they tell you if it has a low or tall seat and low or tall suspension.  I think the RS I rode had a low seat, thus being a bit cramped.

BMW is working hard to make their bikes fit lots of different size people. 

[Carlo DeSantis]

Forgot about the new R1200RS.  Great bike, I took a three hour test ride up Angeles Crest Highway.  Very fun, only thing is the bike did not fit me as well as I would have thought.  Which reminds me, if you test ride a BMW, make sure they tell you if it has a low or tall seat and low or tall suspension.  I think the RS I rode had a low seat, thus being a bit cramped.

BMW is working hard to make their bikes fit lots of different size people.

The R1200RS is the only current BMW that appeals to me.  Not enough to trade, though.

Best,

Carlo

[charlie b]

ROFLMAO.

Pete's descriptions and RK's stories are what make this forum so much fun to read.

Really didn't care for the R9T for a number of the reasons mentioned but my opinion means nothing anyway since I drive a truck these days :)

[oldbike54]

 One small point , Pete has statednearly as bad about small blocks and older 2 valve big blocks 

 Dusty

[pete roper]

And you can also look at the opening line of my first post in this thread.....

[Chesterfield]

Why my opinion should hold significant water I don't know but on the R9T I mean just look at it!

Apart from being an obvious 'Poverty Pack' with non adjustable suspension it's a BMW which means it's got a weak gearbox and final drive that will leave you stranded and drinking your own urine in some god-forsaken desert when it breaks down or blows up! Then there is the engine which like all flat twins sounds like a horse farting in a swimming pool. It's greatest sin though is it's ugly! Not just a little bit ugly either! It exudes ugliness like a pyroclastic flow from a volcano of ugliness! It's so ugly not even it's mother could love it! It's fuel tank looks like some huge, uninsertable pessary! It's seat looks like a donkey speculum! It transcends all normal descriptions of ugly! It's so bad I reckon the reason you never see the wretched things on the road is that the morning after they've bought one their owners catch a glimpse of then out of their bedroom windows and are suddenly overwhelmed by a need to gouge their own eyes out! Service costs will be absurd and they will develop mysterious problems with their canbus a week after the warranty runs out!


Pete

It is ugly, no lines match any other, kind of like a V11 LeMans only worse.

[beetle]

Just look at it. It looks like a lego or meccano contraption. Nothing flows. It looks like it’s innards are exposed, but not in a good way.

[Chesterfield]

This one actually looks resonably OK

[Chesterfield]

But here is a good looking motorcycle. My next purchase this spring








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