GEN/ALT for Ambo reccomendations

[giusto]

My recently acquired !971 Ambassador came with period DB floor boards, nice big period correct panniers and added spots which had been removed in place of a nice Wixom faring. I'm not a  big fan of the Wixom so I took it off and will be selling ( anyone ?) I'm not quite sure how the spots were wired and with my understanding of the 300 watt output of the original generator system I am looking for some advise from those that have tried...which they preferred and is it necessary to bump up to the 600 watt Alternator conversion? and if so which Nolan, Hahn, Thomas ?
I'd like the extra light at night....and that's about all I may be adding.

Thoughts and opinions greatly appreciated

Giusto

[Cam3512]

Only game in town for a full kit is Scrambler Cycle.  Field/Nolan gone unless you can find one that’s been squirreled away like I did.

[Kiwi_Roy]

I must be the only one who likes the original Lucas generator
I run heated vest and gloves, its able to manage better than the Bosch Alternator on my California II

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

I must be the only one who likes the original Lucas generator
I run heated vest and gloves, its able to manage better than the Bosch Alternator on my California II

Lucas? Loops only ever came with Marelli or Bosch.

Guisto: check out this chart: http://thisoldtractor.com/moto_guzzi_loopframe_electricity_usage_by_component.html

How do you plan to use the spotlights - on all of the time or just when it's dark or conditions warrant? The original generator can keep up with either 35s or 55s if everything is in good order. You might consider changing the bulbs/sealed beams to 35 watt if you're going to run them all of the time. Or, if you don't mind the "modern" looks, these are very effective on my Convert and light the road up amazingly well while drawing much less:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06X19TGND/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[giusto]

Lucas? Loops only ever came with Marelli or Bosch.

Guisto: check out this chart: http://thisoldtractor.com/moto_guzzi_loopframe_electricity_usage_by_component.html

How do you plan to use the spotlights - on all of the time or just when it's dark or conditions warrant? The original generator can keep up with either 35s or 55s if everything is in good order. You might consider changing the bulbs/sealed beams to 35 watt if you're going to run them all of the time. Or, if you don't mind the "modern" looks, these are very effective on my Convert and light the road up amazingly well while drawing much less:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06X19TGND/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Hey Charlie,

I certainly don't mind at all if they work better at night. Was hoping to wire for additional night lights...don't need them on all the time.
any ideas on how to wire ? Thanks for the help...hoping you are still able to get out on those WV twisties.

[AJ Huff]

Only game in town for a full kit is Scrambler Cycle.  Field/Nolan gone unless you can find one that’s been squirreled away like I did.

^this and be done.

-AJ

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Hey Charlie,

I certainly don't mind at all if they work better at night. Was hoping to wire for additional night lights...don't need them on all the time.
any ideas on how to wire ? Thanks for the help...hoping you are still able to get out on those WV twisties.

I usually fish another power lead directly from the battery (with an inline fuse) up through the original main harness sheathing to a toggle switch such as this: https://www.mcmaster.com/7343K711 and then directly to the spotlights.

Until the "brine" that was sprayed on the road Wednesday is washed away, my bikes are parked. 

[Kiwi_Roy]

Lucas? Loops only ever came with Marelli or Bosch.
 

Oh mine has a Lucas Starter with the solenoid on the bottom, I just assumed the Genny was from the same source.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Oh mine has a Lucas Starter with the solenoid on the bottom, I just assumed the Genny was from the same source.

?? If yours has a Lucas starter, then that's the first I've ever heard of on a Loop.  Marelli and Bosch again. The only Lucas starters I've seen on Guzzi as a whole were on small-blocks.

[Kiwi_Roy]

?? If yours has a Lucas starter, then that's the first I've ever heard of on a Loop.  Marelli and Bosch again. The only Lucas starters I've seen on Guzzi as a whole were on small-blocks.

You're right again Bosch and Bosch I had to go take a look, it does have Lucas blinkers though, I suppose those were added by the PO.
Could I be mixed up with the Lario I had for a while I'm sure I had a Lucas starter?

[Chuck in Indiana]

I usually fish another power lead directly from the battery (with an inline fuse) up through the original main harness sheathing to a toggle switch such as this: https://www.mcmaster.com/7343K711 and then directly to the spotlights.

Until the "brine" that was sprayed on the road Wednesday is washed away, my bikes are parked. 

That is the obvious and period correct way to do it, but the Eldo I'm working on has a nice headlight bucket and instrument panel. I'll not be the one to drill a hole in either. 
Ordered one of these

and will use it to trigger a relay.

[brider]

I must be the only one who likes the original Lucas generator
I run heated vest and gloves, its able to manage better than the Bosch Alternator on my California II

I always wanted to ask why so many people swapped to alternators on their Loops, when most I've seen are running stock lighting. I rode a '72 Eldo and then a '74 for a long time and never had any issue charging the battery, starting, or running the lights at night. if not running extra lights or ports for heated clothing, why is an alt "upgrade" necessary?
And if running low-draw LED or halogen aux lights, again, is the alt upgrade necessary?

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

You're right again Bosch and Bosch I had to go take a look, it does have Lucas blinkers though, I suppose those were added by the PO.
Could I be mixed up with the Lario I had for a while I'm sure I had a Lucas starter?

Lucas "blinkers" were standard on Eldos.

That is the obvious and period correct way to do it, but the Eldo I'm working on has a nice headlight bucket and instrument panel. I'll not be the one to drill a hole in either. 
Ordered one of these

and will use it to trigger a relay.

I never drill a hole for a toggle switch, I mount it to a bracket that bolts somewhere such as the handlebar clamps or under the clutch lever perch. I have a similar switch as you show on my Convert, no need for a relay since they switch LED driving lights.

I always wanted to ask why so many people swapped to alternators on their Loops, when most I've seen are running stock lighting. I rode a '72 Eldo and then a '74 for a long time and never had any issue charging the battery, starting, or running the lights at night. if not running extra lights or ports for heated clothing, why is an alt "upgrade" necessary?
And if running low-draw LED or halogen aux lights, again, is the alt upgrade necessary?

Many switch when faced with a generator that needs to be rebuilt and/or a regulator that needs to be replaced. The difference in cost to upgrade at that point can be minimal. There's also a substantial difference in weight: the alternator kit is approx 8 lbs. lighter than a generator, bracket and regulator. This might seem unimportant on a bike that weighs 520+ lbs., but one of the issues Loops have always had is the generator bracket and/or the bolts holding the bracket to the engine case fracturing. Since the alternator is substantially lighter, there is less chance of this happening. Plus, studs are used instead of bolts and the alt. kit comes with an extra brace that goes from the alt. to a timing cover bolt. Another nice thing is that since the alternator is "self-contained" (no external regulator) it simplifies the wiring a bit and cleans up back behind the battery. The fact that it has twice the output is just "icing on the cake". 

[Tom H]

Why switch to Alt, just like Charlie says and:

For whatever reason my gen bracket kept cracking, I think the top of the timing cover was worn so it was not supported there. Also for some probably simple reason, I was blowing the regulator. I found the Fields conversion and went with it. Been quite happy except one time I gave the bike a bath and fried something in the alt.

Now I do have a question on the gen light with either the Fields or Scrambler conversion.

On the Fields the gen light on the dash works as it did with a gen. It came with a Nipon Denso alt. Scrambler's site mentions that at least with police bikes the light does not function correctly on many, but some it does.

I picked up an alt for a spare that was not a Denso, but was supposed to be an exact replacement for the Denso. It fit the mount and wiring perfectly and does charge, but the gen light does not work. I would have to install it again, but I seem to remember it worked backwards. I tried searching for a Denso, but they seem very hard to find.

So... What would cause the light to work on the Denso, but not the other??

Tom

[giusto]

Thanks for the input.

it looks like I'll wire the spots to a new switch...."thanks for link Charlie" and right to the battery fused and see how she does.

Cheers....and Happy Thanksgiving!!

[canuck750]

^this and be done.

-AJ

Yep

I have had a Scrambler Cycle one on my Eldorado for the past 5 years, works great.

[toolittletime]

Thanks for the input.

it looks like I'll wire the spots to a new switch...."thanks for link Charlie" and right to the battery fused and see how she does.

Cheers....and Happy Thanksgiving!!

That's what I did on mine, and it is working great.

[Furbo]

I'd think your generator would do that fine.

When I rebuilt my Eldo and the generator died, I bought one for a VW Bug. Fit right in, 330W, was about $75 new. Think they're just under $200 now.

[geodoc]

Have a Field / Nolan on mine bought & picked up from Greg when I was building the bike in 2009 or something. The mount bracket is like a boat anchor. He mentioned that when it was being tested they had to increase the thickness of it a couple times to get it where it didn't develop cracks. Mine hasn't, though I have found that the nylocks holding it down to the studs (w/ helicoils) can use a periodic tweak with my Mk 16 (b) special wrench.





.

[Kiwi_Roy]

Im still running a Bosch generator on my loop.
The front bolts were exchanged for exhaust manifold studs (Honda Civic I think) and it has an extra brace to the distributor bolt.

I run heated vest and gloves on full without any problems, the headlight is an old sealed beam but I changed all other lamps for LEDs

I do like the idea of an alternator but until I find one free off a late model Guzzi  with integral regulator it will probably stay the way it is. Now I think of it the Guzzi alternator from a Griso might be too big.

I think the old loop generators work so well because they run at higher than crank speed, may be wrong again.

[giusto]

That is the obvious and period correct way to do it, but the Eldo I'm working on has a nice headlight bucket and instrument panel. I'll not be the one to drill a hole in either. 
Ordered one of these

and will use it to trigger a relay.

Chuck,  Link for this switch?  Thanks

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Chuck,  Link for this switch?  Thanks

I'm using this one:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Motorcycle-Headlight-LED-Spot-Light-ON-OFF-Switch-Universal-7-8-Handlebar-/311834135308?hash=item489ac34b0c
For anything other than LED spot/driving/fog lights, it will need a relay wired in.

[giusto]

Thanks Charlie!  Ordered ... that was easy

Happy Turkey Day

Btw I found a nice original full exhaust with cross over and mufflers do I’m all set. 

[Chuck in Indiana]

Mine's cheaper..  works fine. (with a relay, of course.)
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06XZGBDBF/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[giusto]

Mine's cheaper..  works fine. (with a relay, of course.)
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06XZGBDBF/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Uhg ! Chuck and free shipping too! I may just need a spare for the drawer.

[giusto]

Mine's cheaper..  works fine. (with a relay, of course.)
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06XZGBDBF/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Chuck which relay? and a quick wiring diagram with relay please
Thanks

[Chuck in Indiana]

Chuck which relay? and a quick wiring diagram with relay please
Thanks

Uhh.. one of the many that I have laying in my "Guzzi stuff" drawer.  It happens to be from Pyro Dan
 http://dpguzzi.com/
Wiring diagram? Think of a relay as a simple switch.
How about this..
pin numbers 85 and 86 are hooked to the relay from your handlebar switch to ground. When you move your handlebar switch you are either turning on or turning off the relay. Either can be power and the other ground. Normally, 86 is ground and 85 is power, though.
What this switch does is control the high load to the device. The device is hooked to pin 30 and 87. (or 87a depending on whether you are wanting to use the relay as normally closed or normally open.)
Now, when you turn the handlebar switch on, it closes the contacts between pin 30 and 87.
Got it? That takes the high amperage load off your handlebar switch and wiring.
 

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Chuck which relay? and a quick wiring diagram with relay please
Thanks

http://thisoldtractor.com/moto_guzzi_loopframe_wiring_diagram_-_relays.html

You can change this up a bit. The switch has two wires: ground one, run the other to relay terminal 85. Make a jumper to go from 30 to 86 ( a "piggyback" terminal is handy here). Fused power from the battery to 30. Wire to the lights from 87.

You can buy a generic "cube" relay meant for horns and auxiliary lights at just about any auto parts for around $5.

[Perazzimx14]

I bought an alternator from the local auto parts store and made a bracket.

Scrambler Cycles isn't he only option.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

I bought an alternator from the local auto parts store and made a bracket.

Scrambler Cycles isn't he only option.

Nobody said it was. I've "rolled my own" as well. Not everyone has the capability to fabricate their own bracket.