Author Topic: For the Pilots NGC  (Read 4696 times)

Offline Kiwi_Roy

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 9796
  • Location: New Westminster BC
For the Pilots NGC
« on: November 01, 2017, 06:43:17 PM »
72 Eldorado
17 V7iii Special
76 Convert
Half a V9 Roamer

Moto Guzzi - making electricians out of riders since March 15 1921

Online Chuck in Indiana

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 29445
Re: For the Pilots NGC
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2017, 06:57:59 PM »
Meh.. spam can.  :evil:  :smiley:
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal
 
87 AeroLario
95 Skorpion tour
22 Royal Enfield Classic 3 fiddy
 "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
Albert Einstein

Offline Testarossa

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 3309
    • Skiing History
  • Location: Paonia, Colorado
Re: For the Pilots NGC
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2017, 07:10:27 PM »
The VW Beetle of aircraft.
70 Triumph TR6R, 74 850T, 74 Yamaha TA125, 89 Mille GT, 99 F650, 2013 Yamaha XT250
Gone: 59 Piper Comanche 250, 69 Harley/Aermacchi 350SS, 71 Honda CB500/4, 74 Laverda 750 SF2, 91 Suzuki VX800, 50cc two-stroke scoot, 83 XR350R

Offline guzzisteve

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 11423
  • "Just Ride It"
Re: For the Pilots NGC
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2017, 07:22:20 PM »
I'd rather have a Tri-Pacer.
"Pray through Carlo & your bike shall be healed"
Location: Planet Earth

Wildguzzi.com

Re: For the Pilots NGC
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2017, 07:22:20 PM »

Offline wrbix

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 1697
Re: For the Pilots NGC
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2017, 07:48:17 PM »
I'd rather have a Grumman Tiger.

Think Miata vs Buick.
Bill in VA, sometimes FL

"Eschew aphorism"

LeMans IV - "Giulia"
Lario - "Giulietta"
V50III cafe'd - "Leggera"
‘77 Convert - “Sofia”
BMW airheads: R100RS, R100CS, R100GS, R100RT, R60/2 sidecar rig
Classic Mini
‘60 Austin Healey Sprite
Caterham Super Seven Sprint
‘13 Audi TTRS
Grumman AA5B (sold)

Online Gliderjohn

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 6559
Re: For the Pilots NGC
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2017, 08:30:42 PM »
My glider club has it's big brother, the very first 182. Our tow plane was originally an 180, but was the the test airplane for 182, moving from tail dragger to tricycle landing gear. It was literally saved from the landfill. I joined the club in 1985 and the plane at that time had logged over 26,000 take off/landing cycles and I was told many more were not logged. It is still going strong but not very pretty.
GliderJohn
John Peters
East Mountains, NM

Online Huzo

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 13202
  • Location: Creswick Australia
Re: For the Pilots NGC
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2017, 11:10:12 PM »
My glider club has it's big brother, the very first 182. Our tow plane was originally an 180, but was the the test airplane for 182, moving from tail dragger to tricycle landing gear. It was literally saved from the landfill. I joined the club in 1985 and the plane at that time had logged over 26,000 take off/landing cycles and I was told many more were not logged. It is still going strong but not very pretty.
GliderJohn
what speed do you tow at on climb ?

oldbike54

  • Guest
Re: For the Pilots NGC
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2017, 11:52:00 PM »
 You guys can diss the 172 , but they are a helluva an aircraft .

 Dusty

Offline yyj200

  • New Egg
  • *
  • Posts: 10
  • Location: Shuswap BC
Re: For the Pilots NGC
« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2017, 01:16:22 AM »
I was an air traffic controller for 37 years, and I've seen a many brutal manoeuvre that this little plane has endured.
2014 Stelvio NTX
2014 Honda CTX
1986 Honda VFR 750
2012 Suzuki DR 650
1992 BMW R100R

Offline fossil

  • Gaggle Mentor
  • ****
  • Posts: 692
Re: For the Pilots NGC
« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2017, 01:22:03 AM »
The only thing the Cessna 172 really needs are two small windows above the front seats. And the only bad thing about this plane is it allows people to populate the air who rather shouldn´t.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2017, 01:23:54 AM by fossil »
Greetings from Germany!
Thorsten

Offline Murray

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3048
Re: For the Pilots NGC
« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2017, 01:25:16 AM »
Alternative title company that has a monopoly on market segment doesn't bother to innovate for 60 years because it doesn't have too. Otherwise known as a Ces-pit yes not a fan Richard Hammond was right, it has all the style and grace of a washing machine :P

Online Huzo

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 13202
  • Location: Creswick Australia
Re: For the Pilots NGC
« Reply #11 on: November 02, 2017, 03:04:28 AM »
The Cardinal, (I think it was the 177) was great because you could see past the leading edge in a turn.
The 172 variants required loosening your shoulder straps, especially when turning onto base and final.
(If you wanted to stay alive...)
Glider pilots that are still alive, LOVE to have good visibility.
The aforementioned Tri Pacer was shithouse at best for that, but pretty none the less.

Offline fossil

  • Gaggle Mentor
  • ****
  • Posts: 692
Re: For the Pilots NGC
« Reply #12 on: November 02, 2017, 05:31:29 AM »
Two good friends have a Klemm KL107 each (a "B" and a "C"). There the visibility is - well - different from the Cessna. In the front seats you can look downward nearly directly, because you sit practically on the leading edge of the wing. And upwards - well, think glider. In comparison you feel encased in the Cessna.
Greetings from Germany!
Thorsten

Offline acogoff

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 1211
Re: For the Pilots NGC
« Reply #13 on: November 02, 2017, 05:35:52 AM »

The aforementioned Tri Pacer was shithouse at best for that, but pretty none the less.
     I beg to differ. The tripacer was a good airplane as far as hauling a load and good control authority and feel, light years ahead of a 172 in those areas.  But was an airport airplane with it's higher approach speeds, 80mph was a number to remember. Basicly it was a pa15, pa17 vagabond that weighed 400 lbs too much and had a nose wheel. Short farm strips were a bit of a challenge, but could be handled with experience, and best avoided by low time city slickers. As others said a 172 is a boring thing.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2017, 05:48:20 AM by acogoff »
'77850t3FB Owned since it was new
Marshall County Minnesota USA

Online Huzo

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 13202
  • Location: Creswick Australia
Re: For the Pilots NGC
« Reply #14 on: November 02, 2017, 06:22:20 AM »
     I beg to differ. The tripacer was a good airplane as far as hauling a load and good control authority and feel, light years ahead of a 172 in those areas.  But was an airport airplane with it's higher approach speeds, 80mph was a number to remember. Basicly it was a pa15, pa17 vagabond that weighed 400 lbs too much and had a nose wheel. Short farm strips were a bit of a challenge, but could be handled with experience, and best avoided by low time city slickers. As others said a 172 is a boring thing.
What I said was..
The visibility in the Tri Pacer was shithouse, what point do you differ on there ?

Online Gliderjohn

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 6559
Re: For the Pilots NGC
« Reply #15 on: November 02, 2017, 06:32:30 AM »
From Huzo:
Quote
what speed do you tow at on climb ?
Depending upon the glider tow speeds will usually be in the 65-80 mph range. The speed determined by the glider not the capability of the towplane. In a two seat trainer with two people the climb rate will be around 500 feet per minute. Our 182 is stripped of anything not needed for safety.
GliderJohn
John Peters
East Mountains, NM

Bonaventure

  • Guest
Re: For the Pilots NGC
« Reply #16 on: November 02, 2017, 06:46:37 AM »
Before Cessna went to the high comp 160hp version of the O-320, the auto gas STC on a 172 made for some inexpensive (oxymoron) flying. 

These days, if I ever got back into flying it would need to be something that can cover some ground quickly and efficiently.  Mooney M20K-252, w/ updated radios and low time engine/prop.  But the cost of overhaul on a 252.... oh no. 


Online Chuck in Indiana

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 29445
Re: For the Pilots NGC
« Reply #17 on: November 02, 2017, 06:54:10 AM »
Quote
The tripacer was a good airplane as far as hauling a load

Not really. With full fuel you can't (legally) put 4 people in it.  :smiley: It'll do it, of course.
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal
 
87 AeroLario
95 Skorpion tour
22 Royal Enfield Classic 3 fiddy
 "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
Albert Einstein

Offline cloudbase

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 2513
  • Location: 89TA
Re: For the Pilots NGC
« Reply #18 on: November 02, 2017, 07:51:36 AM »
Almost as long a production run as the C-130.

Offline acogoff

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 1211
Re: For the Pilots NGC
« Reply #19 on: November 02, 2017, 08:45:36 AM »
What I said was..
The visibility in the Tri Pacer was shithouse, what point do you differ on there ?
Oh - never mind then. Must be the translation.
And Chuck- That is very true, that would be asking for trouble- 36 gallons and 4 people is too much to ask for a 1050 empty weight short winged airplane. Eventually the laws of physics would catch up with you with bad results.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2017, 09:00:44 AM by acogoff »
'77850t3FB Owned since it was new
Marshall County Minnesota USA

Online Chuck in Indiana

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 29445
Re: For the Pilots NGC
« Reply #20 on: November 02, 2017, 10:12:00 AM »
Oh - never mind then. Must be the translation.
And Chuck- That is very true, that would be asking for trouble- 36 gallons and 4 people is too much to ask for a 1050 empty weight short winged airplane. Eventually the laws of physics would catch up with you with bad results.

When I went for my check ride.. uh..50 years ago (gulp) the only thing available was a 135 tri pacer. The examiner told me, "I want you to plan a flight from here to Cincinnati. 3 normal passengers and full fuel." So, I went through the whole thing, laid out the course on the chart, solved the wind triangle on the plotter, etc.. did a weight and balance and found I would need to drain a bunch of fuel. He just smiled and said, "Good. Let's go fly." I'll never forget that check ride. He was a great examiner, an old "stick and rudder" guy, and believed that the check ride should be a learning experience for the soon to be new pilot.
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal
 
87 AeroLario
95 Skorpion tour
22 Royal Enfield Classic 3 fiddy
 "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
Albert Einstein

Offline Testarossa

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 3309
    • Skiing History
  • Location: Paonia, Colorado
Re: For the Pilots NGC
« Reply #21 on: November 02, 2017, 11:00:49 AM »
I earned my PP, instrument and SES ratings in 172s (the SES behind a 180 hp O360 engine). Trained at Truckee, elev 5900 feet (at which elevation a 152 can't climb out of its own shadow with two big people aboard). At altitude the 150-hp 172 is a two-place airplane and crossing mountains it must be flown like a glider, using ridge lift as available but certainly avoiding lee slopes. The article cited by OP is wildly optimistic. The 150 hp planes I flew cruised at 110 knots max (125mph).

Then I flew a 182 for 500 hours in CAP. Rule for mountain flying is 60 hp per crewmember, so even the 182 is a three-place airplane for search/rescue.
70 Triumph TR6R, 74 850T, 74 Yamaha TA125, 89 Mille GT, 99 F650, 2013 Yamaha XT250
Gone: 59 Piper Comanche 250, 69 Harley/Aermacchi 350SS, 71 Honda CB500/4, 74 Laverda 750 SF2, 91 Suzuki VX800, 50cc two-stroke scoot, 83 XR350R

Online Chuck in Indiana

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 29445
Re: For the Pilots NGC
« Reply #22 on: November 02, 2017, 12:13:36 PM »
Hadn't read the post except to see it was about a 172.

Quote
though you could push this up to 185mph at a pinch – but the manufacturer would rather you didn’t.

Bwwwaaahha.. no manufacturer wants to see their airplane in a vertical dive.. :grin:
Uhh.. this is what it does.
Cruise (90-105 Knots). Vno. Maximum structural cruising speed (yellow) (129 Knots). Vne. Never exceed speed (redline) (163 Knots)

Quote
The 172's design was so clean and aerodynamic that Cessna’s

Where did they get this guy? Clean?? The reason they padded the instrument panel was  if a pilot suddenly reduced power, he wouldn't hurt his head because it slowed down so fast.  :evil:

Further proof that you can't believe everything you read on the internet. It *is* a solid very easy to fly airplane..
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal
 
87 AeroLario
95 Skorpion tour
22 Royal Enfield Classic 3 fiddy
 "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
Albert Einstein

Offline Testarossa

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 3309
    • Skiing History
  • Location: Paonia, Colorado
Re: For the Pilots NGC
« Reply #23 on: November 02, 2017, 01:24:04 PM »
And with those big fowler flaps, if you know what you're doing you can touch down at 40 knots.
70 Triumph TR6R, 74 850T, 74 Yamaha TA125, 89 Mille GT, 99 F650, 2013 Yamaha XT250
Gone: 59 Piper Comanche 250, 69 Harley/Aermacchi 350SS, 71 Honda CB500/4, 74 Laverda 750 SF2, 91 Suzuki VX800, 50cc two-stroke scoot, 83 XR350R

Offline Steph

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2219
  • Cali Stone/ LM3
Re: For the Pilots NGC
« Reply #24 on: November 02, 2017, 01:29:55 PM »
Anybody’s got stick time on the
“fork-tailed doctor killer”
I’d like to know how that felt.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2017, 01:35:18 PM by Steph »

Online Chuck in Indiana

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 29445
Re: For the Pilots NGC
« Reply #25 on: November 02, 2017, 02:07:47 PM »
Anybody�s got stick time on the
�fork-tailed doctor killer�
I�d like to know how that felt.

Sure. Sweet fliers. *I* don't notice the tail wagging, but I've never been in the back seat. Some say they do, but I'll bet they are chasing it. <shrug> *really* good load carrier and can operate out of a short field. Will smoke a Cessna with the same powerplant. What's not to like?
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal
 
87 AeroLario
95 Skorpion tour
22 Royal Enfield Classic 3 fiddy
 "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
Albert Einstein

Online Huzo

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 13202
  • Location: Creswick Australia
Re: For the Pilots NGC
« Reply #26 on: November 02, 2017, 03:24:32 PM »
 :bow:
Oh - never mind then. Must be the translation.

Would you have preferred a language other than English ?
The visibility was not good

Online Chuck in Indiana

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 29445
Re: For the Pilots NGC
« Reply #27 on: November 02, 2017, 03:39:26 PM »
:bow:Would you have preferred a language other than English ?
The visibility was not good

Quote from Roscoe Turner. Speed isn't everything, it's the only thing.
US light plane manufacturers have always given up visibility for a little streamlining. Speed sells, I guess. I prefer being able to see out, though.
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal
 
87 AeroLario
95 Skorpion tour
22 Royal Enfield Classic 3 fiddy
 "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
Albert Einstein

Offline Tusayan

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1788
Re: For the Pilots NGC
« Reply #28 on: November 02, 2017, 05:06:45 PM »
Two good friends have a Klemm KL107 each (a "B" and a "C"). There the visibility is - well - different from the Cessna. In the front seats you can look downward nearly directly, because you sit practically on the leading edge of the wing. And upwards - well, think glider.

Neat planes.  Ask your friends why their airplane was made by a company called Waggon- und. Maschinenbau GmbH  :grin:   

(the name means a company that makes railroad boxcars and machinery)

US light plane manufacturers have always given up visibility for a little streamlining. Speed sells, I guess. I prefer being able to see out, though

Take a look at the forward visibility of the recent Pipistrel Panthera, not a US design, and wonder at the design priorities for a supposed production prototype.

Re the C172, its design was exactly the right compromise for its market and has made many lives better.  I don't think any more needs to be said, and no I don't own one.

« Last Edit: November 02, 2017, 06:39:11 PM by Tusayan »

Online Huzo

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 13202
  • Location: Creswick Australia
Re: For the Pilots NGC
« Reply #29 on: November 02, 2017, 07:31:30 PM »
When I went for my check ride.. uh..50 years ago (gulp) the only thing available was a 135 tri pacer. The examiner told me, "I want you to plan a flight from here to Cincinnati. 3 normal passengers and full fuel." So, I went through the whole thing, laid out the course on the chart, solved the wind triangle on the plotter, etc.. did a weight and balance and found I would need to drain a bunch of fuel. He just smiled and said, "Good. Let's go fly." I'll never forget that check ride. He was a great examiner, an old "stick and rudder" guy, and believed that the check ride should be a learning experience for the soon to be new pilot.
Just to be clear, did you drain the fuel ?
And...
If not, what did you learn ?
« Last Edit: November 02, 2017, 10:06:33 PM by Huzo »

***Wildguzzi Official Logo High Quality 5 Color Window Decals Back In Stock***
Shipping in USA Only. Awesome quality. Back by popular demand. All proceeds go back into the forum.
http://www.wildguzzi.com/Products/products.htm
Advertise Here
 

***Wildguzzi Official Logo High Quality 5 Color Window Decals Back In Stock***
Shipping in USA Only. Awesome quality. Back by popular demand. All proceeds go back into the forum.
http://www.wildguzzi.com/Products/products.htm
Advertise Here