RIP Jack Bogle

[Dilliw]

Everyone knows the name Buffett,  but even Warren agrees that Jack Bogle did more for the average investor than anyone.  Jack made investing easy enough that a cave man like me could do it, and it was a proud day for me when I saved up enough to buy shares of Wellington Admiral (the fund that he once managed).

RIP Jack.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/16/warren-buffett-says-jack-bogle-did-more-for-the-individual-investor-than-anyone-hes-ever-known.html

[LowRyter]

He pretty much invented the low cost S&P 500 Index Fund.  I was skeptical and missed out.  I falsely believed that Fidelity managed funds were better.  I cant complain but told my youngest to build his retirement with Vanguard.

[MGrego]

Everyone knows the name Buffett,  but even Warren agrees that Jack Bogle did more for the average investor than anyone.  Jack made investing easy enough that a cave man like me could do it, and it was a proud day for me when I saved up enough to buy shares of Wellington Admiral (the fund that he once managed)

Interesting that you bought the Fund he once managed, managed funds were the very thing he crusaded against.  He championed index funds and much of his research was aimed at demonstrating how index funds outperformed managed funds in the long run.  He reckoned less than 3% of actively managed funds could beat their target index over 10 years.

[Dilliw]

Interesting that you bought the Fund he once managed, managed funds were the very thing he crusaded against.  He championed index funds and much of his research was aimed at demonstrating how index funds outperformed managed funds in the long run.  He reckoned less than 3% of actively managed funds could beat their target index over 10 years.

Yep!  It's the only actively managed fund that I have at Vanguard.  I just like the history and having at least 1 fund with a hand on the wheel.

[MGrego]

Yep!  It's the only actively managed fund that I have at Vanguard.  I just like the history and having at least 1 fund with a hand on the wheel.

 

[mrverveus]

Well said George!  Jack Bogle is certainly one of my investing heroes, along with Peter Lynch.

[Ncdan]

Personally, I manage my own portfolio. I have 6 stocks that are American company's that have been around for decades and that pay very good dividends. Dividends are not paid by the price of the stock at any given point but by the dividend itself, therefore the roller coaster stock market does not cause a panic situation. Mine average out to around 6% which pays out monthly. Maybe not for everyone but works great for me.

[LowRyter]

Personally, I manage my own portfolio. I have 6 stocks that are American company's that have been around for decades and that pay very good dividends. Dividends are not paid by the price of the stock at any given point but by the dividend itself, therefore the roller coaster stock market does not cause a panic situation. Mine average out to around 6% which pays out monthly. Maybe not for everyone but works great for me.

I agree with your strategy regarding dividend stocks and DRIP.  Most of my stuff is in mutual funds but the two stocks I have do better than my funds.  The compounding effect with dividends coupled with growth and eventual splits and spin-offs is very effective way to invest. 

If I had known now 40 years ago I would have gone all to index funds and dividend stocks.  But I am not complaining.

I hope I can leave most of it to my sons.  By the time they retire it should be pretty good for them considering how few younger folks have any meaningful retirement pensions.

[Lannis]

Personally, I manage my own portfolio. I have 6 stocks that are American company's that have been around for decades and that pay very good dividends. Dividends are not paid by the price of the stock at any given point but by the dividend itself, therefore the roller coaster stock market does not cause a panic situation. Mine average out to around 6% which pays out monthly. Maybe not for everyone but works great for me.

I used to manage my own portfolio, but I must say that it's difficult to find a collection of stocks that will pay a regular 6% overall.    In retirement now, my income is a mixture of annuities, pension, SS, and stocks, stock exposure being 20% or so ....

Young people no longer have "defined benefit" pensions like many of us have to pay part of our retirement - they have to be especially careful how they manage their savings for retirement and their income after retirement ....

Lannis

[Ncdan]

I used to manage my own portfolio, but I must say that it's difficult to find a collection of stocks that will pay a regular 6% overall.    In retirement now, my income is a mixture of annuities, pension, SS, and stocks, stock exposure being 20% or so ....

Young people no longer have "defined benefit" pensions like many of us have to pay part of our retirement - they have to be especially careful how they manage their savings for retirement and their income after retirement ....

Lannis

Not hard to find those stocks at all Lannis. PM me and I'll give you a list. Heck right now Ford motor co or "F" on the NY stock exchange,  is paying over 7% now, I just bought some. I have a RITT stock that's paying around 12% but you must monitor these types of high yield stocks as they can fall fast if the Feds raise interest rates.

[LowRyter]

Not hard to find those stocks at all Lannis. PM me and I'll give you a list. Heck right now Ford motor co or "F" on the NY stock exchange,  is paying over 7% now, I just bought some. I have a RITT stock that's paying around 12% but you must monitor these types of high yield stocks as they can fall fast if the Feds raise interest rates.

Of course, the lower the price the higher the yield.  In the last 5 years, Ford has fallen from $15 to $8 and change now.  So presumably Ford was paying about 3% then?  I tried to invest in the "Dow Dogs" at one time and again, meh.

I'd prefer stocks that pay dividends and are growing as well.  Nothing like DRIP and then a split and again.  That's a double-double boost. 

[pebra]

Simple luck is underestimated in investing, as in many other areas.
If you fear you're out of it, spread your bets.

[jcctx]

Vanguard has been very good for me! Have about 70% of my portfolio with them, with the rest at Edward Jones and three banks (for the insurance). Life's lottery has been good!!!

[Ncdan]

How do you guys feel about investing in gold or silver?

[Lannis]

How do you guys feel about investing in gold or silver?

On the dividend-paying stocks mentioned earlier, I think I'll leave that to you; my current strategy is working well for me.

I HAVE been thinking about taking around 25% of the money that's currently sitting in safe but very-low-yield investments and buying gold bullion (Eagles, Maple Leafs, Krugerrands) and just letting it ride in case of emergency.

The companies that are paying out my annuities are as safe as such things can be (Jackson National, to name one, hasn't missed a payout since it was founded in 1890, which includes quite a bit of turmoil from then till now), but gold is even better - it hasn't missed a payout since, oh, the New Stone Age.   And the wonkier the world gets, the more it's worth ....

Lannis

[pebra]

How do you guys feel about investing in gold or silver?

I wouldn't do it personally (although I do like spreading my bets  ) as I prefer something attached to the real economy, i.e. bonds, equities, real estate.
Haven't looked into what instruments are available  -  thinking fees, liquidity.....
Might be useful to have some gold in the drawer in case money ceases to be the preferred means of payment, but not sure I would think of that as an investment, maybe more like some sort of insurance?

[Vince in Milwaukee]

I'm pretty much a rank amateur when it comes to investing, and have all of my money very conservatively invested in Uncle Sam's Thrift Savings Plan (I'm a government employee).  I'm not too far off from retiring (5 more years?) and the beat down from 2008 is always in the back of my mind.  My mantra is a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.  About Jack Bogle.  I occasionally watch financial programs / news .  I remember Mr. Bogle telling the interviewer that the little guy takes all the risk and the investment firm makes all the money regardless of how the market performs.  He was a regular guy who had that Midas touch.         

[Perazzimx14]

I invested heavily in gold over the years

[Lannis]

Might be useful to have some gold in the drawer in case money ceases to be the preferred means of payment, but not sure I would think of that as an investment, maybe more like some sort of insurance?

That's a good way of looking at it, I think .....

[LowRyter]

How do you guys feel about investing in gold or silver?

I think it might make sense to convert everything to tangible gold: coins, bullion and jewel, when hightailing it out here and heading to Canada, Australia, Costa Rica or Uruguay, at al.  Me, I hate jewelry and don't even have a gold ring.  But I remember those refugees fleeing the holocaust in WWII who cast gold in to buttons and sewed them to their clothing so they could escape with some wealth.

So far as investment, it's an inert commodity that pays no dividends.  If you are savvy it might make sense.  Consult an expert, like Pat Boone.

[LowRyter]

I'm pretty much a rank amateur when it comes to investing, and have all of my money very conservatively invested in Uncle Sam's Thrift Savings Plan (I'm a government employee).  I'm not too far off from retiring (5 more years?) and the beat down from 2008 is always in the back of my mind.  My mantra is a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.  About Jack Bogle.  I occasionally watch financial programs / news .  I remember Mr. Bogle telling the interviewer that the little guy takes all the risk and the investment firm makes all the money regardless of how the market performs.  He was a regular guy who had that Midas touch.       

The "C" Fund was inspired by Bogle and several of the other funds follow other indexes as well. 

I found that trying to move investments around in the TSP as a big PIA.  Instead of a simple phone call, it takes all kinds of passwords and/or forms to do.  There was a time when an employee could move investments in TSP quickly, then some idiot coworkers were moving funds like day traders, literally every day.  I worked with a younger fellow that did it and he had "made lots of money" doing it based on what the stock market had done the previous day but his explanations didn't seem rational (to me).

So, I have tended to just not mess with it and have good portion into the "G" fund which is conservative and stable.

Frankly, I don't know how I would even get my money out of the TSP if I needed it.

And I haven't changed any of my investments in the last  35-15 years.  I just leave it alone.

[Perazzimx14]

If the economy collapses what advantage does metal have over paper. I mean if money is worthless and I need food do I walk up to the nearest farmer and give him a few grains of gold for a bushel of corn? What good does gold do the farmer or does he even want it? He can't eat it, plant it or feed it to his livestock. I think I'd get further by offering manual labor to keep his farm going or firearms/ammunition that he can use for protection of hunting in trade for food?

Hope I never have to find out.

[LowRyter]

If the economy collapses what advantage does metal have over paper. I mean if money is worthless and I need food do I walk up to the nearest farmer and give him a few grains of gold for a bushel of corn? What good does gold do the farmer or does he even want it? He can't eat it, plant it or feed it to his livestock. I think I'd get further by offering manual labor to keep his farm going or firearms/ammunition that he can use for protection of hunting in trade for food?

Hope I never have to find out.

if the economy collapses, then the paper is certainly worthless.  Gold has traditionally been throughout history considered to be valuable, it's also inert and will never degrade or disappear.  OTOH, if you want to eat the last sandwich on earth or drink the last canteen of water, gold ain't worth much.

[Lannis]

If the economy collapses what advantage does metal have over paper. I mean if money is worthless and I need food do I walk up to the nearest farmer and give him a few grains of gold for a bushel of corn? What good does gold do the farmer or does he even want it? He can't eat it, plant it or feed it to his livestock. I think I'd get further by offering manual labor to keep his farm going or firearms/ammunition that he can use for protection of hunting in trade for food?

The farmer won't want it, but someone will be in the business of buying gold and converting it to something you need or can use.    That's been true in every society everywhere on earth from the Bronze Age until today.  Ancient Egypt, Sumeria, India, China, Greece, Rome, Dark Ages Europe, everywhere.   Gold has never lost its value.  It has always been the sign and avatar of wealth.   I don't understand why, but then again I don't have to ......

Lannis

[Ncdan]

A little fun information: all the gold harvested since recorded history woukd fill 3.27 Olympic swimming pools, so says the experts on the subject:)

[Huzo]

I have never invested in my life, so I know zero about it.
But if I make $1,000,000 on the market..
Do 1000 people have to lose $1000  each ?
Or any other multiple you care to choose. If I make a wise choice and accumulate money, what happens to the money that an unwise (or unlucky) investor loses ?
Where do the dollars come from that I get ? (simple as possible please).

[Ncdan]

You make money in the stock market by the profits the companies you have invested in made profits. These companies use the money from your stock purchases to grow and improve their company, thus increasing their profit margins and they share those gains through paying you dividends and increase stock value. Hopefully your holdings will also increase in value making your stock worth more. So, you can receive a good income through your dividends and keep your original investment in the stock also growing. It's a win win situation. If the market plunges like it did a few years ago you lose nothing as long as you don't panic and sell, its always came back historically and you still make the same amount with the dividends regardless of the price of the stock at any given time because it's paid a certain percentage per share regardless of the price of that share. Hope this helps some.

[Lannis]

I have never invested in my life, so I know zero about it.
But if I make $1,000,000 on the market..
Do 1000 people have to lose $1000  each ?

No.   That's why it's called "Making Money".   It's not a zero-sum game.   Mining, Manufacturing, Agriculture, and basic industries actually add money and value into the system that wasn't there before ....

Lannis

[Huzo]

So.
If we have company A and company B.
And we have 100 investors (idealised)
By some chance 60 people invest in company A and 40 in company B.
As a result company A gets stronger due to their ability to do more R&D or whatever, and squeezes company B out of existence so they go broke or get bought up by company A.
What happenes to the money that Mum and Dad investors pumped into company B ?

[LowRyter]

There are two things at work.

1.  Dividends.  That is a share of the profits that shareholder receives from the sale of the company's goods and services.

2.  Capital Appreciation.  The shareholder owns equity in the company.  The value of those share prices is determined by buyers and sellers in the market.  In that sense, there can be winners and losers.  Also, there are different categories of stock, based on voting rights and amount of dividends among other things.  Shares can be bought, can be sold short, and optioned with puts and calls.   

Established companies will usually have stable profits and provide more dividends.  Some companies may rely on growth and have small or no profits but the promise of growth makes the equities valuable.