RIP Jack Bogle

[Huzo]

I guess I have an abhorrence for a system that makes it easier for the rich to get richer, than the poor to get richer.

[pebra]

I guess I have an abhorrence for a system that makes it easier for the rich to get richer, than the poor to get richer.

This has to a large extent to do with human inclinations  -  some like to save, others like to spend.
Also with your society's political leanings, which we shan't discuss here  -  its system, extent and ability to redistribute wealth and income.

Spread your bets: Don't only rely on your value as a provider of labour, but diversify by saving e.g. buy equities so that you become also an employer.
Feel threatened by robotisation? Buy shares in a company that makes robots.

[Lannis]

This has to a large extent to do with human inclinations  -  some like to save, others like to spend.
Also with your society's political leanings, which we shan't discuss here  -  its system, extent and ability to redistribute wealth and income.

Spread your bets: Don't only rely on your value as a provider of labour, but diversify by saving e.g. buy equities so that you become also an employer.
Feel threatened by robotisation? Buy shares in a company that makes robots.

Well said.    I've known quite a few people who started out with very little, invested a little bit at a time, and ended up independent.

For example, if people would take the two twenties that they throw across the counter for lotto tickets every Friday, and buy into a conservative mutual fund instead with that money, they'd end up quite a bit "richer". 

But its apparently not as much fun.  You pays yer money and you takes yer choice ....

Lannis

[Ncdan]

I guess I have an abhorrence for a system that makes it easier for the rich to get richer, than the poor to get richer.

Huzo, is a 401k acceptable to you for a retirement plan, if so, these plans are heavily invested in the world wide stock market system. In fact I would say that the majority of company retirement systems are invested in the stock market.
However if you are not comfortable with the stock market you can bury your earnings in the back yard and see how much it produces there :)

[Perazzimx14]

Well said.    I've known quite a few people who started out with very little, invested a little bit at a time, and ended up independent.

For example, if people would take the two twenties that they throw across the counter for lotto tickets every Friday, and buy into a conservative mutual fund instead with that money, they'd end up quite a bit "richer". 

But its apparently not as much fun.  You pays yer money and you takes yer choice ....

Lannis

Unfortunately state lottery systems is what some folks see as their retirement plan.   

[Lannis]

Unfortunately state lottery systems is what some folks see as their retirement plan.

I know.   That attitude is one of the differentiators (there are many) between people who will never have anything and those who will have enough to retire comfortably on.  It doesn't decide who will be "happy", but it decides who will have money ....

Lannis

[screamday]

Unfortunately state lottery systems is what some folks see as their retirement plan.

State lottery systems are retirement plans for the people that run them.

[Perazzimx14]

I know.   That attitude is one of the differentiators (there are many) between people who will never have anything and those who will have enough to retire comfortably on.  It doesn't decide who will be "happy", but it decides who will have money ....

Lannis

I'll be happy be happy when the day comes when I wake up and can say I want to go to work and not have to.

[Ncdan]

I'll be happy be happy when the day comes when I wake up and can say I want to go to work and not have to.

👍yep, that is a blessing no doubt:)

[LowRyter]

I guess I have an abhorrence for a system that makes it easier for the rich to get richer, than the poor to get richer.

It's possible for small investors to put in small amounts over time into mutual funds and build modest wealth.  Historically, stocks of have done better than savings accounts over time.  It was Mr Bogle who gave that opportunity to small investors from what was previously only available to the wealthy. 

You might look at a strategy known as "dollar cost averaging", that is regular investing of small amounts over time in low cost funds like Bogle's S&P 500 and letting it grow and compound.  The magic with this, if the prices of stocks are falling, the investors are actually purchasing more shares for the same amount of money invested.  Capital gains and dividends are reinvested 

So Bogle actually was a guy that did help small savers build wealth.  And that is a great legacy.

[pebra]

It's possible for small investors to put in small amounts over time into mutual funds and build modest wealth.  Historically, stocks of have done better than savings accounts over time.  It was Mr Bogle gave that opportunity to small investors from what was previously only available to the wealthy. 

You might look at a strategy known as "dollar cost averaging", that is regular investing of small amounts over time in low cost funds like Bogle's S&P 500 and letting it grow and compound.  The magic with this, if the prices of stocks are falling, the investors is actually purchasing more shares for the same amount of money invested.  Capital gains and dividends are reinvested 

So Bogle actually was a guy that did help small savers build wealth.  And that is a great legacy.

https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2019/01/21/remembering-john-bogle-patron-saint-of-the-amateur-investor

[Dilliw]

https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2019/01/21/remembering-john-bogle-patron-saint-of-the-amateur-investor

Thank you for that article.  The last paragraph captures what Bogle did for us nicely.

The key to successful stockmarket investing is avoiding high management fees. This is what Bogle called his “cost-matters hypothesis”. Because of him, lots of ordinary investors now get the average stockmarket return, thus beating the professionals, for a negligible fee. In total, Bloomberg reckons, investors may have saved $1trn in fees from indexation.

As someone would say, that's "huge." 

The only stock that I DRIP is Carolina Power and Light that became Progress that is now Duke Energy.  Back in the 30s someone was going door to door selling shares of the new power company and my Grandfather bought a few (my dad still has the original shares as issued as a keepsake).  My parents put them into a DRIP account and in the 90s that had built up into 250 shares.  They kept 50 and gave each of their 4 kids 50 shares and I've been doing the same.  So far I'm up 120 shares or so of now Duke.  I've only got 3 kids so waiting to hit 200 before I give them their own accounts.  If they hold it they will never be broke!

[Lannis]

The only stock that I DRIP is Carolina Power and Light that became Progress that is now Duke Energy.  Back in the 30s someone was going door to door selling shares of the new power company and my Grandfather bought a few (my dad still has the original shares as issued as a keepsake).  My parents put them into a DRIP account and in the 90s that had built up into 250 shares.  They kept 50 and gave each of their 4 kids 50 shares and I've been doing the same.  So far I'm up 120 shares or so of now Duke.  I've only got 3 kids so waiting to hit 200 before I give them their own accounts.  If they hold it they will never be broke!

Careful though!! 

My grandmother was an avid individual stock trader, even though she started out as a 21-year-old widow with a baby (my dad) in 1927 with very little money.   She worked for many years in the 20's and 30's for Western Union as a clerk, and each paycheck she would buy a share or two of AT&T stock.   

By the 60s, she had a LOT of AT&T stock, paying dividends.   At times, she would gift us, her grandchildren, with a few shares and warn us never to sell it!   When she died in 1994, she left everything but her AT&T stock to my grandfather, but gave the stock to us grandkids, again warning us not to sell it!

Well, you can probably guess the story.   AT&T started wobbling in the late 1990s, and many of us could see the end coming.   With a "Sorry, Grandmother, but we've got to", I sold out around 1998 and watched the rest of it (AT&T >> Lucent >> nothing) die.

AT&T was a good ride for 80 years or so while they were renting everyone in the USA a telephone for $2 a month and making a fortune, but when the world changed, they started cheating and couldn't hang in there.

So keep your eyes open ....

Lannis

[Lannis]

I guess I have an abhorrence for a system that makes it easier for the rich to get richer, than the poor to get richer.

I don't think that the various stock trading sites (TDWaterhouse, etc) care what country you hail from.    You can get in on taking a share of the profits from wherever you are.   ESPECIALLY if there's a company or a segment that you know well through your work, and you have a feeling that things are going well (or badly) in that area, and it's time to go long or short on it.   

That knowledge doesn't guarantee success, but it much improves your odds, like being in a poker game and knowing what card is on the bottom of the deck.

Overall, though, if you:

1) Buy over the long term
2) Using dollar cost averaging as mentioned above
3) and Leave It Alone

You will always (for the last 150 years and maybe in the future) come out ahead with that kind of investment, and maybe be wealthy.   I know some smart young kids that are automatically (without even seeing the money) putting 12 or 15% of their pay into a conservative 401K or other tax shelter; by the time they retire, they will literally be "wealthy" in anyone's book ....

Lannis

[LowRyter]

Careful though!! 

My grandmother was an avid individual stock trader, even though she started out as a 21-year-old widow with a baby (my dad) in 1927 with very little money.   She worked for many years in the 20's and 30's for Western Union as a clerk, and each paycheck she would buy a share or two of AT&T stock.   

By the 60s, she had a LOT of AT&T stock, paying dividends.   At times, she would gift us, her grandchildren, with a few shares and warn us never to sell it!   When she died in 1994, she left everything but her AT&T stock to my grandfather, but gave the stock to us grandkids, again warning us not to sell it!

Well, you can probably guess the story.   AT&T started wobbling in the late 1990s, and many of us could see the end coming.   With a "Sorry, Grandmother, but we've got to", I sold out around 1998 and watched the rest of it (AT&T >> Lucent >> nothing) die.

AT&T was a good ride for 80 years or so while they were renting everyone in the USA a telephone for $2 a month and making a fortune, but when the world changed, they started cheating and couldn't hang in there.

So keep your eyes open ....

Lannis

Monopolies don't last for ever.

Didn't you get shares in the Baby Bells when they were spun off  from AT&T?   They were the utility end of the business that paid the dividends.   Lucent was a failed tech company.  And BTW- Southwestern Bell (one of the Baby Bells) ended up being a huge cell giant and changed their name to AT&T.

[Lannis]

Monopolies don't last for ever.

Didn't you get shares in the Baby Bells when they were spun off  from AT&T?   They were the utility end of the business that paid the dividends.   Lucent was a failed tech company.  And BTW- Southwestern Bell (one of the Baby Bells) ended up being a huge cell giant and changed their name to AT&T.

I got out before it all happened.   You had to be really careful (and somewhat lucky) to avoid losing money in the split-up .... My Mom lost a packet on Lucent ....

The individual, self-managed "I Lost My Shirt" stories are why so many people run shy of stocks.   And brings us back around to why funds like Vanguard allow the little guy to participate in the Money Making process ....

Lannis

[Ncdan]

I got out before it all happened.   You had to be really careful (and somewhat lucky) to avoid losing money in the split-up .... My Mom lost a packet on Lucent ....

The individual, self-managed "I Lost My Shirt" stories are why so many people run shy of stocks.   And brings us back around to why funds like Vanguard allow the little guy to participate in the Money Making process ....

Lannis

You are exactly right. If a person does not have the time and energy to research the stocks they want to own and monitor them on a daily basis then a reputable company is the way to go. Pick one that only makes money when they make you money.

[LowRyter]

I got out before it all happened.   You had to be really careful (and somewhat lucky) to avoid losing money in the split-up .... My Mom lost a packet on Lucent ....

The individual, self-managed "I Lost My Shirt" stories are why so many people run shy of stocks.   And brings us back around to why funds like Vanguard allow the little guy to participate in the Money Making process ....

Lannis

I hope your mom got a piece of Southwestern Bell.

[Ncdan]

Careful though!! 

My grandmother was an avid individual stock trader, even though she started out as a 21-year-old widow with a baby (my dad) in 1927 with very little money.   She worked for many years in the 20's and 30's for Western Union as a clerk, and each paycheck she would buy a share or two of AT&T stock.   

By the 60s, she had a LOT of AT&T stock, paying dividends.   At times, she would gift us, her grandchildren, with a few shares and warn us never to sell it!   When she died in 1994, she left everything but her AT&T stock to my grandfather, but gave the stock to us grandkids, again warning us not to sell it!

Well, you can probably guess the story.   AT&T started wobbling in the late 1990s, and many of us could see the end coming.   With a "Sorry, Grandmother, but we've got to", I sold out around 1998 and watched the rest of it (AT&T >> Lucent >> nothing) die.

AT&T was a good ride for 80 years or so while they were renting everyone in the USA a telephone for $2 a month and making a fortune, but when the world changed, they started cheating and couldn't hang in there.

So keep your eyes open ....

Lannis

I have ATT in my portfolio and it still pays a good dividend and has been a very stable company and stock for me. However I do hope they keep branching out and keeping up with changes in the communication field.