Author Topic: Left turn driver kills two motorcyclists  (Read 5476 times)

canuguzzi

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Left turn driver kills two motorcyclists
« on: May 22, 2016, 11:52:52 AM »
Yesterday in Solano Co.

Beware of the left turn driver. Driver turned left, killed both motorcyclists.

Be safe out there. Do what you can to make yourself visible although this driver ran over two bikes so they were hard to miss. Reports are no alcohol/drugs involved. They didn't test for negligence.

 :sad:

Offline cruzziguzzi

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Re: Left turn driver kills two motorcyclists
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2016, 12:10:26 PM »
Left tuns in front of.... THE number 1 killer!


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Offline Arizona Wayne

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Re: Left turn driver kills two motorcyclists
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2016, 12:17:26 PM »
I wonder if the bike riders were riding side by side.  If so that would give them less chance to avoid the impact.

Offline cruzziguzzi

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Re: Left turn driver kills two motorcyclists
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2016, 12:19:35 PM »
I had my first real, and astoundingly explicit example of this only a week or two ago when turning into my neighborhood.

I was in a left turn lane, early evening so that headlights in general were necessary and oncoming headlights were washing out oncoming vehicle details.

There was plenty of time for me to execute the left - I felt - but given my rather languid fashion in which I drive our diesel, I chose to wait for a clot of cars to pass.

As I sit there, I note one of the oncoming headlights separate distinctly from its mate and realize it was a motorcycle much closer than the cars behind it yet its own headlight, for a time, perfectly mimicked the left headlight of a trailing car.

Probably, possibly, all would have been alright but then again - maybe not.

I'da been that left-turn-in-front-of guy in any case. Very disconcerting, that! Very easy to happen too.

It wasn't so much the; "motorcycle that I didn't see" as it was the motorcycle which conditions conspired to be misinterpreted.


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Re: Left turn driver kills two motorcyclists
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2016, 12:19:35 PM »

Offline normzone

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Re: Left turn driver kills two motorcyclists
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2016, 03:46:04 PM »
Yeah, I've seen that as well. When out at night I try to be a little more mobile than usual in my lane position to make it more obvious that I'm neither a tail light or or headlight on a car.
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Offline charlie b

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Re: Left turn driver kills two motorcyclists
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2016, 04:10:40 PM »
I have to admit I did not see a motorcycle coming at me the other day either.  Same kind of reason.  Single headlight but sun was glinting off a lot of things in my range of vision.  The headlight looked like any other glint.  Just as I started to pull out I noticed that one 'reflection' was moving and I stopped.  A close one.

Also why I have three lights in front and three in back.
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Offline Triple Jim

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Re: Left turn driver kills two motorcyclists
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2016, 04:28:00 PM »
This is why I always assume the car waiting to turn in front of me will do so just in time to kill me if I don't make sure I have time to stop or a way out when it does.  You may remember my recent post about riding with my daughter and later telling her why I slowed down from the 45 mph speed limit to 35 when cars were waiting to turn into our lane, and the argument one member here made that "sometimes you just have to commit and go", which I disagreed with.
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Offline RANDM

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Re: Left turn driver kills two motorcyclists
« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2016, 05:01:56 PM »
A slightly different scenario involves that little blind spot in
the centre of your retina.
I had a friend who pulled out on a motorcyclist, he was okay
but she was confused because she did indeed look but didn't
see him and was concerned enough to look for advice.
I told her about the blind spot and not to just look at the
scene with a static glance but to move her eyes along the
road so that the eyes focus changes.

Maurie.

lucydad

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Re: Left turn driver kills two motorcyclists
« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2016, 06:49:38 PM »
Biggest pucker I have riding around Houston area, some roads seem to be endless series of left turn threats.

The twin headlights on the Triumph STRX may help a bit, perhaps the white Shoei a bit, and rarely riding at dusk with low angle light conditions.  No real answers. 

Sad story. :sad:

Online grebmrof

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Re: Left turn driver kills two motorcyclists
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2016, 06:58:51 PM »
I was out riding today and was behind a left turner who with his left turn signal on and waiting for 2 or was it 3 oncoming cars to pass, then wrenched the wheel to the right for a right turn, just as I was moving (very slowly) around the right rear bumper of his car.  A fast BEEP! from my puny horn, a screamed curse inside my helmet, and the guy changed his mind and turned left while blowing his horn in anger at me for confusing the shit out of an idiot driver!  Can't be too careful out there.

Sorry to OP for the hijack, sad news whenever crap like this happens to any of us riders.
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canuguzzi

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Re: Left turn driver kills two motorcyclists
« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2016, 07:06:56 PM »
Maybe not being able to judge speed and distance has something to do with it, lane choice too. A rider in the #1 lane approaching a car tends to appear to move less than o e in the #2 lane if there is one. The #1 lane rider just gets a little larger but stays relatively static until much closer. The #2 lane rider goes more across the vision, appearing to be more of a moving object.

Then again, people turn in front of big trucks and trains too.

Like another post, I get the eebeejeebees when there is a car in a left turn lane on the approach with no stop light. Slowing might not stop them from turning anyway but it can't hurt, the extra 10mph sure could.

Offline JeffOlson

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Re: Left turn driver kills two motorcyclists
« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2016, 07:11:36 PM »
Years ago, when I bothered looking at statistics, it seemed that 75% of all motorcycle fatalities involve either drinking and riding or left-turning on-coming cagers... Consequently, I never drink and ride (or drive), and I am always on high alert for cagers turning left in front of me. I will be on even higher alert after this unfortunate news.
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Offline rodekyll

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Re: Left turn driver kills two motorcyclists
« Reply #12 on: May 22, 2016, 08:19:57 PM »
I was out riding today and was behind a left turner who with his left turn signal on and waiting for 2 or was it 3 oncoming cars to pass, then wrenched the wheel to the right for a right turn, just as I was moving (very slowly) around the right rear bumper of his car.  A fast BEEP! from my puny horn, a screamed curse inside my helmet, and the guy changed his mind and turned left while blowing his horn in anger at me for confusing the shit out of an idiot driver!  Can't be too careful out there.

Sorry to OP for the hijack, sad news whenever crap like this happens to any of us riders.

Another good reason to never pass on the right and never pass someone making a turn.

I had a pucker moment the other day as I was making a left turn into traffic at a T intersection on a curve.  I was waiting for a hole to open and saw it happening right behind a dump truck coming from my left.  I glanced right to verify the hole, began to roll, and realized at the last possible second that the dump truck was towing a trailer on a LOOOOOOONNNNGGGG tongue -- so long it had flashing red lights on it to bring attention to the fact that it was there.  It had been hidden behind the truck in the curve of the road.  If I'd committed before looking left one more time I would have been squishy stuff between the trailer tires.

Offline wymple

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Re: Left turn driver kills two motorcyclists
« Reply #13 on: May 22, 2016, 08:39:22 PM »
Years ago, when I bothered looking at statistics, it seemed that 75% of all motorcycle fatalities involve either drinking and riding or left-turning on-coming cagers... Consequently, I never drink and ride (or drive), and I am always on high alert for cagers turning left in front of me. I will be on even higher alert after this unfortunate news.

If you read that huge, comprehensive Hurt report on motorcycle accidents, it's a real eye opener. Along with left turn crap, an amazing number of fatalities involved Harley Ds and alcohol, no helmets.
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Online grebmrof

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Re: Left turn driver kills two motorcyclists
« Reply #14 on: May 22, 2016, 09:04:33 PM »
Another good reason to never pass on the right and never pass someone making a turn.

Yes, and I am glad that I was creeping forward instead of goosing it - which could be a formula for disaster.  I suppose I didn't have to lay on my weak horn, but the errant driver got the idea and decided to turn left like he had originally signaled.
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Offline rodekyll

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Re: Left turn driver kills two motorcyclists
« Reply #15 on: May 22, 2016, 11:02:35 PM »
Umm. . .  check the indignation there, grebmrof, The errant, idiot driver was you.  You're not going to find a lot of support here for anything that happens when you're passing on the shoulder.  You made a bonehead move and darn near got hit because of it.  Own it.  Don't make it the fault of the car ahead of you.  One of the few truths about driving is that it's NEVER the fault of the car ahead of you. 

The sad part is that the lesson you learned is to make the bonehead move more slowly.   :rolleyes:


Offline Nic in Western NYS

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Re: Left turn driver kills two motorcyclists
« Reply #16 on: May 23, 2016, 04:34:05 AM »

 the dump truck was towing a trailer on a LOOOOOOONNNNGGGG tongue -- so long it had flashing red lights on it to bring attention to the fact that it was there.  It had been hidden behind the truck in the curve of the road.  If I'd committed before looking left one more time I would have been squishy stuff between the trailer tires.
I had a situation caging where something similar happened.  I figured there might be a trailer, but not a super long trailer with building equipment hanging off the rear.  My lesson would be to try to discipline myself to wait until I actually see the end of the vehicle or vehicle/trailer, not assume that there is no trailer or if seeing a trailer, that the trailer is normal length.  I didn't start out into the intersection, but was surprised.  Don't like being surprised by large vehicles on the road.

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Online grebmrof

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Re: Left turn driver kills two motorcyclists
« Reply #17 on: May 23, 2016, 05:37:04 AM »
Umm. . .  check the indignation there, grebmrof, The errant, idiot driver was you.  You're not going to find a lot of support here for anything that happens when you're passing on the shoulder.  You made a bonehead move and darn near got hit because of it.  Own it.  Don't make it the fault of the car ahead of you.  One of the few truths about driving is that it's NEVER the fault of the car ahead of you. 

The sad part is that the lesson you learned is to make the bonehead move more slowly.   :rolleyes:

Well it wasn't on any shoulder this was a very wide paved single lane, easily wide enough for a motorbike to pass and the fact that my front wheel had barely even gotten up to his rear bumper made it not a bonehead move but a simple attempt to move past an dead headed object.  That the driver of the car realized he was the idiot in the situation was confirmed by his return to turning left (after a beeeep) which he originally signaled and waited for three oncoming cars to proceed past him.  I suppose I should have said more in my original post so that you didn't have to imagine so much about what had actually happened.  No indignation here, just a more complete explanation, but I am sure you'll just want to reaffirm your feeling above in response.  However, I doubt I will ever move past a cage in a similar situation ever again...thank you for the sage advice, a new lesson learned!
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Offline rbm

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Re: Left turn driver kills two motorcyclists
« Reply #18 on: May 23, 2016, 07:34:51 AM »
Condolences to the two families of the motorcyclists involved in this accident.

The problem, as pointed out, is that motorists can't judge the approach speed of a motorcycle because they have no frame of reference to gauge against.  This is called motion camouflage and is well documented.  The camouflage can be broken if the motorcyclist weaves within the lane as approaching a left-turning driver.  The relative motion of the headlight with this maneuver highlights the vehicle against the background noise. 

Two things I do in city commute traffic:
1) ride the right as I approach an intersection to distance myself as much as possible from left turn motorists, or if I'm lucky, act as wingman for any car that might be alongside me in the left lane as we approach the intersection (assuming a multi-lane roadway)
2) do the lane weave as I approach
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Offline charlie b

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Re: Left turn driver kills two motorcyclists
« Reply #19 on: May 23, 2016, 07:52:26 AM »
Another good reason to never pass on the right and never pass someone making a turn.

I had a pucker moment the other day as I was making a left turn into traffic at a T intersection on a curve.  I was waiting for a hole to open and saw it happening right behind a dump truck coming from my left.  I glanced right to verify the hole, began to roll, and realized at the last possible second that the dump truck was towing a trailer on a LOOOOOOONNNNGGGG tongue -- so long it had flashing red lights on it to bring attention to the fact that it was there.  It had been hidden behind the truck in the curve of the road.  If I'd committed before looking left one more time I would have been squishy stuff between the trailer tires.

There was a couple killed the same way a few years ago.  Guy with his wife on back.  Tanker truck.  He turned left as the truck cleared and rode right in between the truck and the trailer.
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Offline Nic in Western NYS

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Re: Left turn driver kills two motorcyclists
« Reply #20 on: May 23, 2016, 09:43:52 AM »
Two things I do in city commute traffic:
1) ride the right as I approach an intersection to distance myself as much as possible from left turn motorists, or if I'm lucky, act as wingman for any car that might be alongside me in the left lane as we approach the intersection (assuming a multi-lane roadway)
2) do the lane weave as I approach
That lane weave technique and rationale is really interesting.  It SHOULD be helpful - any research on it?
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Offline bacongrease

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Re: Left turn driver kills two motorcyclists
« Reply #21 on: May 23, 2016, 10:21:18 AM »
If you read that huge, comprehensive Hurt report on motorcycle accidents, it's a real eye opener. Along with left turn crap, an amazing number of fatalities involved Harley Ds and alcohol, no helmets.
.
.
 It should not  be the  eye opener,  80% of the bikes I see on the road are HDs. 
Then....Of course most wrecks would involve a HD.

Offline bacongrease

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Re: Left turn driver kills two motorcyclists
« Reply #22 on: May 23, 2016, 10:24:04 AM »


 The last person to turn in front of me has been riding bikes forever, a neighbor.  Embarrassed !   :embarassed:   :embarassed:

 Just did not see me stopped on a Red motorcycle.

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Re: Left turn driver kills two motorcyclists
« Reply #23 on: May 23, 2016, 11:15:28 AM »
The best advice given to me years ago. "Assume you are invisible". Also try to establish eye contact. No garrantees as I have had my share of close calls but it helps.

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Re: Left turn driver kills two motorcyclists
« Reply #24 on: May 23, 2016, 11:20:43 AM »
I almost got taken out by a left hand turner. The guy realized he was wrong and instead of continuing in the turn he stopped the car in the middle of the street blocking my exit at his rear. I just about cleared the vehicle but the right foot peg caught his bumper and I went down in the oncoming lane. Fortunately I wasn't run over. I was fine, a couple of stitches in my leg, scratched up bike and a ruined pair of jeans.

It got entertaining after that with one "witnesses" claiming he saw everything as he stuck a quickly written note into my hand which said something about me claiming he was a passenger on the bike and how he would split the proceeds with me, and of course his phone number. Some people.......
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Offline charlie b

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Re: Left turn driver kills two motorcyclists
« Reply #25 on: May 23, 2016, 07:22:40 PM »
That lane weave technique and rationale is really interesting.  It SHOULD be helpful - any research on it?

Not that I know of.  Look up SMIDSY videos (Sorry Mister I Didn't See You).  I do the same when approaching a dicey looking intersection/area.

At the very least, it makes other drivers think you are 1) incompetent 2) showing off 3) crazy 4) drunk.  Any one of which makes them notice you and stay away (maybe  :)  ).
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Offline jbell

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Re: Left turn driver kills two motorcyclists
« Reply #26 on: May 23, 2016, 08:22:05 PM »
I had my first real, and astoundingly explicit example of this only a week or two ago when turning into my neighborhood.

I was in a left turn lane, early evening so that headlights in general were necessary and oncoming headlights were washing out oncoming vehicle details.

There was plenty of time for me to execute the left - I felt - but given my rather languid fashion in which I drive our diesel, I chose to wait for a clot of cars to pass.

As I sit there, I note one of the oncoming headlights separate distinctly from its mate and realize it was a motorcycle much closer than the cars behind it yet its own headlight, for a time, perfectly mimicked the left headlight of a trailing car.

Probably, possibly, all would have been alright but then again - maybe not.

I'da been that left-turn-in-front-of guy in any case. Very disconcerting, that! Very easy to happen too.

It wasn't so much the; "motorcycle that I didn't see" as it was the motorcycle which conditions conspired to be misinterpreted.


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Offline rbm

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Re: Left turn driver kills two motorcyclists
« Reply #27 on: May 23, 2016, 09:24:20 PM »
That lane weave technique and rationale is really interesting.  It SHOULD be helpful - any research on it?
Yes.

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Offline rodekyll

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Re: Left turn driver kills two motorcyclists
« Reply #28 on: May 23, 2016, 10:36:00 PM »
I have ridden with two gents who feel that doing figure-8s and slaloms increase their visibility when approaching intersections.  It must work, since neither have been hit since starting the weave, although they've almost run into other bikes who weren't expecting it.  Personally I think it looks like the m/c equivalent of the pee-pee dance.

Offline boatdetective

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Re: Left turn driver kills two motorcyclists
« Reply #29 on: May 24, 2016, 06:45:14 AM »
This is always a hard one. However- any attempt to assume where someone is going to go is fraught with potential problems. I always try to assume that it's my responsibility to put my bike in the correct spot to avoid a problem. Looking ahead for people stopped in the center of the road makes me think "they're going to turn left".  It's all a chess game and you have to be the one looking four moves ahead. Not saying I'm flawless by any means- just that it seems we bear a greater burden to think ahead.
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