Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: slowmover on December 11, 2018, 02:26:22 PM
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I’m waiting at the dealership where I got my 2018 new vehicle for the first oil change and I’m confused.They say for the warrenty to stay in effect it must have synthetic oil and be changed every 6000 miles or 6 months whichever comes first.So conceivably if I drive say 2000 miles a year every 6 months they are changing that oil out with only 1000 miles on it.I understand dealerships are always after the $ but that is the warrenty.My bike which has to be harder on the oil doesn’t have a time limit on the oil only a mileage spec.It seems out of wack.
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Whatever is said in the Owners Manual Service Schedule is the requirement. I can well imagine that the dealer is wrong, that is par for the course.
Dealer service is not required, but keep the receipt from whoever does it, including a receipt that shows the type oil used.
I’ve never used dealers for car oil changes. I have an excellent oil change place nearby that has no issue with me providing Mobil 1 Synthetic from Walmart. I’ve been using them for 10 or 15 years through several new cars.
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In the 1980s I had a Dodge Turbo Colt for a few years. I would take it to a Montgomery Wards Auto shop for oil changes with Mobil I . At the time the idea was between 2-3K miles to change the filter only and add the difference of less than a quart of oil and at 15K change all the oil. No matter how big of letters were used on the work order for instructions they would ALWAYS end up draining all the oil and replacing it. So I would always get four quarts for the price of one. Car fell apart but the engine was in great shape.
GliderJohn
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Keep in mind, regardless of how few miles, condensation isn't good.
synthetic oil is worth the extra cost, even if the warrantee didn't require it.
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Keep in mind, regardless of how few miles, condensation isn't good.
synthetic oil is worth the extra cost, even if the warrantee didn't require it.
Sure but it's unlikely under normal conditions in modern autos and honesty 6 months on synthetic is ridiculously conservative.
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As Tusayan mentioned, what does the owner's manual say? That's what you have to do to keep the warranty. You can do it in your driveway and as long as you can show it was done per that schedule and using the oil they recommend, you are covered.
If the owner's manual doesn't specifically say use synthetic, you don't have to. If you drive that few miles a year, it's probably a waste of money if not required.
Gustavo
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Six month oil change intervals with $60 worth of synthetic each time is just "the price of poker" when you're buying 2018 cars.
Either pay the price and keep a valid warranty, or do it the way you like and don't keep the warranty. I don't think there's another choice unless the dealer agrees to let you slide, go with "plan B" consistent with the long life of synthetic oil, and wink at the warranty requirement ....
Lannis
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Six month intervals in a modern car with modern oil? Ludicrous, and I will bet (seriously, I will) that the manual says nothing of the sort.
Please tell us the brand of delicate vehicle that needs only the finest nectar in the sump.
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Six month oil change intervals with $60 worth of synthetic each time is just "the price of poker" when you're buying 2018 cars.
Either pay the price and keep a valid warranty, or do it the way you like and don't keep the warranty. I don't think there's another choice unless the dealer agrees to let you slide, go with "plan B" consistent with the long life of synthetic oil, and wink at the warranty requirement ....
Lannis
Yeah, don't want to mess with the warranty, they'll blame you regardless. Mobil 1 is only $30 at Walmart. Get a filter and do it yourself. Save the receipts.
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THe dealer is NOT the person who gets to say what will void the warranty (maybe all should check out the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson%E2%80%93Moss_Warranty_Act (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson%E2%80%93Moss_Warranty_Act) for some pertinent information) - it is the manufacturer. And the requirments for that are stated in the owners manual. You can have anyone do the maintenance on a vehicle as long as they follow the guidelines in the owners manual.
So - what is the vehicle in question and what does the owners manual say?
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THe dealer is NOT the person who gets to say what will void the warranty (maybe all should check out the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson%E2%80%93Moss_Warranty_Act (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson%E2%80%93Moss_Warranty_Act) for some pertinent information) - it is the manufacturer.
I don't need to check any of the legal details, and the OP isn't talking to the manufacturer, who has no idea what is going on at the dealership.
I'm saying that if the dealership is working with their customer, and it's their customer's desire not to be saddled with what both they and the dealer knows is unreasonable maintenance "to maintain the warranty", then the dealer can do what they want to in order to satisfy their customer, and still keep the warranty in place.
Lord knows that our Guzzi dealers have had to link arms with us often enough and confront and outmaneuver Grinch Piaggio in order to keep our Guzzis running. Car dealers can (and have, for me) do the same.
Lannis
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2018 Subaru. Warranty and Maintenance manual states its up to me to follow the schedule listed-6 months or 6000 miles.
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Then all you have to do is follow that schedule - you do not have to do it at the dealer. Just keep receipts and use the oil and filters specified in the manual.
Is this perhaps a Subaru with a turbo perchance?
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No- I know the dealer isn’t required. I was just questioning synthetic oil being changed with so few miles.And the receipt says the oil is 0W20.And I thought 10-60 was weird.
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Most newer cars use 0-20w to help with fuel economy. And if the manual says synthetic, then use synthetic. Not doing that can void the warranty.
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Then all you have to do is follow that schedule - you do not have to do it at the dealer. Just keep receipts and use the oil and filters specified in the manual.
Is this perhaps a Subaru with a turbo perchance?
It surprised me, so I looked it up. It seems like the normal maintenance schedule for all Subarus - 2.5, 3.6 and Turbo models. They also require 0w-20 or 5w-30 synthetic on all but the 3.6 models (which apparently can use conventional oil, but on the same replacement schedule).
Gustavo
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Hi Folks,
My 2011 Tacoma (4 cyl.) requires oil changes every 5,000 miles or 6 months, whichever comes first (synthetic 0-50). I think that's ridiculous, and after the first couple "free" oil changes, I started doing it myself at my preferred schedule. Since I only put a few thousand miles a year on it, I change the oil/filter once a year (synthetic). If I put more miles on it I'd change every 7,500 miles or so.
I think your Suby would be fine on a once a year schedule going that few miles. I seriously doubt you'll have any oil change related issues with that car.
If it has a turbo, I don't know anything about those...
Cheers!
Craig
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Have you researched the Subaru engine? When they changed over to a timing chain (around 2010-12) there have been thousands of claims of oil consumption and many new replacement engine blocks under warranty. They first make you do an oil consumption test but mostly they fail so the new block is ordered. I have not heard of a fix by Subaru, maybe they have by now but I'd be sure to follow the service schedule to the T and watch your level. I wanted a new Subi until I heard about this failure so I'm keeping my 2008 Forester for now. It's a huge issue on the Subaru discussion sites. This the standard motor not the 6cyl or turbo models.
But, you could just buy oil and filter, save receipt and change it according to mileage not time, as long as you have purchase receipts they won't know if you really put it in every 6 months. use the excess in your bike.
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That is more often that my wife's 2007 Forester - and I can still use conventional oil.
However, after the last service at the dealer to 'fix' an oil leak (turned out to be the oil cooler - maybe) , and finding out that the 2.5 liter engine in her car has a potential manufacturing defect due to Subaru and Toyota making the head mating surfaces just big enough, possibly leading to premature head gasket failure, I won't ever buy another one, even though I generally like the cars and their all-wheel drive system.
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I have heard of Subarus with issues-but this is crazy. My car and my motorcycle have 10,000 mile oil change intervals. I use them enough that time isn't close to being an issue but the car is a fairly lengthy time-even the bike says "annual".
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My wife’s 2018 Impala mahal says change the oil once a year or when the computer tells you to. It does not give any specific mileage to do so. Intervals are based completely on operating conditions. Could be 2500 miles could be 8000, the brain knows!
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My jeeps tell me when to change the oil. There was an article in Car and Driver years ago about the "Bunkum" 3000 mile change sticker that Jiffy Lube and others attach to your window. The author was of the opinion that 6000 miles was the proper change time.
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Have you researched the Subaru engine? When they changed over to a timing chain (around 2010-12) there have been thousands of claims of oil consumption and many new replacement engine blocks under warranty. They first make you do an oil consumption test but mostly they fail so the new block is ordered. I have not heard of a fix by Subaru, maybe they have by now but I'd be sure to follow the service schedule to the T and watch your level. I wanted a new Subi until I heard about this failure so I'm keeping my 2008 Forester for now. It's a huge issue on the Subaru discussion sites. This the standard motor not the 6cyl or turbo models.
But, you could just buy oil and filter, save receipt and change it according to mileage not time, as long as you have purchase receipts they won't know if you really put it in every 6 months. use the excess in your bike.
Subaru..took them about 7 years to fix the blown head gasket issue resulting in several class action lawsuits..And the piston slap...Then they go right into oil usage problems?
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My 08 Dodge Ram has a nice little feature... the enginerds at Dodge figured out how to calculate oil life by measuring the engine temp, RPMs, load, etc... thus calculating how hard the motor has been run and for how long. This is all explained in the nice big book that was included in the glove box. The book says that under severe conditions, I could expect to get the "change oil soon" message as quickly as 2000 miles, but that most people will get the message somewhere between 4000 and 6000 miles. Mine generally comes up between 5000 and 5500. The truck has 106K miles on it now, engine runs beautifully, and it's always had good 5w-20 dino oil and fresh filters. I expect another 100k out of this old truck at least...
Point being, the folks who designed it know more about it than the folks who sold it. I'd stick with what they say to do, but make sure to keep your receipts for everything, and if you do your own service, write it down in the service history log in the back of the manual.
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My 08 Dodge Ram has a nice little feature... the enginerds at Dodge figured out how to calculate oil life by measuring the engine temp, RPMs, load, etc... thus calculating how hard the motor has been run and for how long. This is all explained in the nice big book that was included in the glove box. The book says that under severe conditions, I could expect to get the "change oil soon" message as quickly as 2000 miles, but that most people will get the message somewhere between 4000 and 6000 miles. Mine generally comes up between 5000 and 5500. The truck has 106K miles on it now, engine runs beautifully, and it's always had good 5w-20 dino oil and fresh filters. I expect another 100k out of this old truck at least...
Point being, the folks who designed it know more about it than the folks who sold it. I'd stick with what they say to do, but make sure to keep your receipts for everything, and if you do your own service, write it down in the service history log in the back of the manual.
There are a bunch of vehicles that use these algorithms to monitor oil life these days. I actually would have assumed MOST vehicles do by now, but I'm too far removed from that market to have any real idea. From personal experience I know BMW and Mini have been doing it for more than a decade, and that most FCA products (including both our Jeeps do it). I believe I've heard about a bunch of GM products, and would have thought Ford was doing it by now too.
On our Mini Cooper the monitor would often take us out to 15000k+.
I ran a number of our Subarus on 10k changes, one for over 250k miles without a hint of a problem. But maybe things have changed and they are feeling gun-shy due to oil burning issues.
Our 2012 Jeep monitor usually goes to the max/recommended mileage (for that year) of 8k, though I think we're "supposed" to change it at 6 months if it doesn't go off by then. We've used nothing but M1 extended performance and it doesn't burn a DROP of oil between those oil changes (at only 75k so far but still), so I'm not worried.
Our 2016 Jeep monitor usually goes to a similar mileage (I do a bit more stop and go and local than I'd like), but by schedule the max allowed is 10k/1 year.
So yeah the Subaru intervals are sounding ultra-conservative to me. I wonder how much of it is actual need based and how much of it is CYA trying to make sure dolts don't run them low if they are consuming oil?
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So yeah the Subaru intervals are sounding ultra-conservative to me. I wonder how much of it is actual need based and how much of it is CYA trying to make sure dolts don't run them low if they are consuming oil?
We have a 2013 Outback 3.6 engine and it uses some oil in that 6,000 mile time frame. I start looking at the dipstick at around 4K. Not happy about having to do this but I like the car and prefer the larger engine.
My dealer gives free oil changes, so I just let them do the work.
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We have a 2013 Outback 3.6 engine and it uses some oil in that 6,000 mile time frame. I start looking at the dipstick at around 4K. Not happy about having to do this but I like the car and prefer the larger engine.
My dealer gives free oil changes, so I just let them do the work.
We have a 2012 Outback 2.4 engine. It uses about a pint in 7500 miles, which is the oil change interval that the dealer has recommended for us; like you, they do all the oil changes. I don't know what the factory recommends.
The factory designers may know more about the theory of an average car's oil change needs, but the dealership in this case is the one who knows us, knows how we drive, knows that they need to keep us happy so we'll keep coming back, and all that ....
Lannis
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We have a 2012 Outback 2.4 engine. It uses about a pint in 7500 miles, which is the oil change interval that the dealer has recommended for us;
Lannis
Ours will use about a quart in less than 6,000 miles but that is dependent on whether we have done long highway mile trips in that time period. Regular city driving with occasional highway miles the usage is negligible. I should ask the dealer about this oil usage.
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I don't think a pint or a quart in 5000 is an issue....2000-2005 or so Honda and Toyota were having excessive oil consumption problems in some engines...The line drawn by the manufacturers was a quart every 1000 miles or so... There were some recalls on it, but some owners got screwed. You can research it online with 100,000's of complaints about oil consumption in many newer vehicles..Including BMW class action suit...
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Most newer cars use 0-20w to help with fuel economy. And if the manual says synthetic, then use synthetic. Not doing that can void the warranty.
Along with that, newer engines are built to closer tolerances than in days of yore (more precise). They also, in the case of the current Subi, have Variable Valve Timing. A thicker oil could have trouble with the VVT and even throw a check engine code. 0-20 syn is the called for oil.
Meet or exceed the owners manual and keep receipts, regardless of who does the work. If you do it yourself, you could even buy the oil and filter from them if you want to.
Subaru often has various coupons on their web site that will save you a percentage or sometimes 20 bucks. Usually, the offer overlaps with my maint schedule and it works out. I even get a clean car back.
John Henry
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We use Toyota Tacoma's in our fleet for all our sales visits. My truck says 0w-20. I drive from 1000 with up to 2000 miles a week. Average about 60k miles a year. I change my oil every 10k, but its mostly highway miles, very little stop and go, never pulls a trailer. Carry about 500lbs of supplies in the bed.
Last truck before the new one went 285k before they got me a new one. Still didn't burn any oil. It would be dark at 10k, but the truck never used any oil.
Probably could have gone longer than 10k with the way it was used, but the longer changes never had an effect on the life of the truck. As far as I know, most of the guys are driving what I drive and I have never heard of an engine issue in 7 years I have been with the company. We run about 20 trucks annually.
I change my oil in the Jeep and Dodge every 5k. Jeep has 200k, dodge has 350k. Jeep uses maybe a quart in 5k miles, dodge uses about a quart every 1k. both of mine use regular oil, 15w40 Rotella. Change filters every time.
Old Head
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2018 Subaru. Warranty and Maintenance manual states its up to me to follow the schedule listed-6 months or 6000 miles.
Well,
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My 2012 had the oil usage issue, was using more the a quart at 1k so they gave me a new short block at around 70K then about a year later I noticed while doing an oil change (0 usage) a lot of oil under the car, turns out the new short block had a crack, so new block #2 at 80K which will use a quart of 0-20 in 4K. Then a couple week back I had the central differential replaced at 99K, luckily I had the extended warranty signed over to me for $35 when I bought the car and only had to pay $100 for what would have been a $1750 job. They had the differential in stock which leads me to believe this failure is not that uncommon. So after owning 3 Subaru's this may be my last one,hopefully with all the new parts it will go another 100k.
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My 2016 Toyota Highlander has a recommendated oil change interval of 10k with synthetic oil. I have never had to add oil between changes and the is only slightly discoloured when it is drained. The synthetic oil these days is so well engineered that 10k is to soon to change the oil in my opinion. When I worked as a heavy duty mechanic our Caterpillar loaders and dozers had there oil changes at 250 hours of use. These were hard working machines unlike our road vehicles, if you went 250 hrs timed by 60 MPH it comes out to 15k between oil changes. Because of how hard the loaders were working it was probably 20k or more when converted to distance travelled. We always took oil samples and had the oil checked for developing problems and theses machines woul go 25000 hours of hard work between rebuilds. The manufacturers want us to change our oil way to soon in most instances so they don’t have to many warranty claims or other issues such as owners trying to get big miles out of conventional oils.
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if you went 250 hrs timed by 60 MPH it comes out to 15k between oil changes.
That's a falacy for an automobile. The only way you'll ever average 60mph is on a road trip where you're running on the interstate for long periods of time.
I have an "average MPH" readout on the info screen of my Ford Fusion. I drive about 40 miles per day. 25 miles of that is on the interstate at 65-80 mph. The "average MPH" readout currently shows 21 mph. Any city traffic at all will kill your average mph.
so, for me: 250 hrs x 21 mph = 5250 miles (which is 6.5 months of commuting).
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My Toyotas and Hondas since 2009 have all specified 0w-20 oils, and I found you cannot find regular petroleum oil in that viscosity. Only semi-synthetic blend and full synthetic.
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Some of you may know of the Bob is the oil guy discussion forum....It's fun to read how anal people can be about oil...What's informative is they post results of oil analysis..Take a sample and mail it into a lab and you see can what metals and contaminants are in it. It seems many new engines, especially turbo supercharged and or direct injection gas engines have high amounts of fuel dilution, 3-5%....It may be worthwhile to use sampling to determine oil change intervals...
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Interesting discussion, but getting back to the op's original observation and implied question - the bottom line is that if you don't follow the manufacturer's recommended oil change schedule religiously, you give them a wide open avenue to make life difficult if you should be unlucky enough to have a premature failure or even just more than average engine/transmission problems. Some dealers MAY be on their customers' side on warranty coverage disputes, but anecdotal evidence seems to reflect that the manufacturers' first reaction in these cases is generally to deny coverage, and there are plenty of dealers that won't push back on the mfgs' answers unless backed into a corner by lawsuits or at least unfavorable local news coverage. There's been a lot of discussion about MG's response to flat-tappet vs. roller tappet issues - complete denial at first, case-by-case grudging acceptance of the existence of a problem eventually but no solution provided, & finally (I think) case-by-case warranty extensions after repeated contacts from the affected customers. Honda Goldwing stator issues, BMW security key interlock problems, & Harley cam chain tensioner premature failures are issues with similar factory responses (or more correctly, non-responses) in the not-to-distant past that also fit this pattern.
My solution/recommendation is to religiously follow the owners manual recommendations for the duration of the warranty period, no matter how silly it seems. As many here have pointed out, you can do that through the dealer, through independent shops or even in your own driveway - as long as you have kept detailed records. After the warranty period is over, do whatever you are comfortable with. There are plenty of good recommendations in this thread on what is a reasonable approach to oil change intervals & oils to use, but none of them will be helpful in a warranty dispute with the manufacturer or dealer if they violate the owners manual &/or warranty statement requirements.
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2000 miles a year? That sounds like motorcycle miles.
You bought a NEW car and intend on driving it only 2000 miles a year?
Well, My mom did that, so I guess there are people who drive that little.
Some of the dealerships offer an oil change for life program. If you are only driving that much it could be a good deal.