A V85TT mystery -- What is going on here?

[DesertPilot]

Maybe look for chafed throttle wiring around the steering neck?

I tend to look at the last thing I touched or modified too.  😜

That was the first thing I checked, since I'd pushed some wires around when I installed the Barkbusters, making this a candidate toe 'last thing I touched or modified' as well. 

In front of the left side panel there is a connector on the throttle body. Google Mistras V85TT V-Twin boost dongle IIRC and you will see where it’s at.  You can reach this without removing anything.

Thanks! I pulled the side panel earlier, was unable to figure out which of the 3 or so connectors was the one I wanted, and the diagram in the service manual (see below) entirely failed to be informative and/or bear any real relation to the scene that confronted my eyes.





This should be a big help!

UPDATE: ...or so I'd hoped.  If I understand the Mistral instructions, they're plugging into the T-MAP sensor, not the throttle body connections.  Whose location remains to be determined.  I could go out to do the Stare At It In A Poorly Lit Garage Until You Go Mad With Frustration routine -- with which I've had much practice -- but I think I'll have glass of wine instead -- a routine one can never practice too often -- and puzzle this out tomorrow...

[DesertPilot]

A Tale Of Two Sockets
by Someone Other Than Charles Dickens

“It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of Light, it was the season of Darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair, we had the Service Manual before us, we had the Interhnet before us, we were not going direct to Heaven, we were all going find out where the throttle body connector really was.”

The Service Manual entirely failed to be informative regarding the location of the throttle body connector, but a search through the internet finally turned up this Suggestive Diagram (No, not that kind of suggestive!  Whatever were you thinking!) which seemed to indicate the presence of two sockets in the throttle body and gave some impression where they were located with respect to the airbox.





An ad on eBay for used throttle body confirmed that these hypothetical sockets did indeed exist.





The next step was to find the ruddy things.  For this purpose, I wanted my Small Mirror For Looking Around  Corners.  Predictably, this mirror had gone the way of all flesh -- or reflective glass, as the case may be -- and was lost, gone, vanished as ever Atlantis.  But members of my tribe are not so easily thwarted!  After the Necessary Grumbling, I located a Suitable Reflective Object (SRO) to take its place.





Armed with the SRO, I set off in search of the sockets.  The one at the bottom left of the throttle body is easy enough to find once you know where to look.  It’s hidden under the left side panel, just behind the frame member.





It is also entirely irrelevant, since it’s just an air pressure sensor because hey, you never know when you might want to know if there’s air pressure in case you were wondering if you were going to need that space suit.  The throttle body connection is better hidden, but all you need to do to get at it is pull the tool tray, look at the Suggestive Diagram, and think, “Oh... yes... right.  I knew that's where it was there all along, but hadn’t gotten around to looking.”





The plug itself is rather strange, with a Spiffy Yellow Tab you have to pull back before you can remove it.





After you’ve wiggled it free, given it a spritz of contact cleaner, then given it another spritz for luck, it’s the very devil to get back together.  Time after time, I’d slide the thing in (No, that’s not what I meant!  See note above about ‘whatever were you thinking!’) and slip the Spiffy Yellow Tab back in place, only to have the thing slide back out again.  Aargh.  Finally, with the help of the SRO, and after more Necessary Grumbling, I got the thing to lock in place





Since then I’ve cleared the OBD codes, verified that the check engine went out, verified that it doesn’t go on again when I start the bike up, and retired to my chambers for glass of wine.  Will this fix the problem?  Who knows?  But, “It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done, it is a far, far better rest that I go to (see note above about 'glass of wine') than I have ever known."

[jrt]

Continuing the literature theme- I'm reading a book now and this saga reminds me of it.  Martin Cruz Smith- 'The Siberian Dilemma'
A siberian îs walking across a frozen lake when it cracks below him- he falls in.  If he climbs back out onto the ice, he'll die within a minute of the cold.  If he stays in the water, he will last five minutes before he dies of hypothermia.  What does he do?

[DesertPilot]

Continuing the literature theme- I'm reading a book now and this saga reminds me of it.  Martin Cruz Smith- 'The Siberian Dilemma'
A siberian îs walking across a frozen lake when it cracks below him- he falls in.  If he climbs back out onto the ice, he'll die within a minute of the cold.  If he stays in the water, he will last five minutes before he dies of hypothermia.  What does he do?

One imagines it depends on whether the ice is still under warranty 

[lucky phil]

Continuing the literature theme- I'm reading a book now and this saga reminds me of it.  Martin Cruz Smith- 'The Siberian Dilemma'
A siberian îs walking across a frozen lake when it cracks below him- he falls in.  If he climbs back out onto the ice, he'll die within a minute of the cold.  If he stays in the water, he will last five minutes before he dies of hypothermia.  What does he do?

He dies. BTW I'm pretty sure you'll die of hypothermia a lot quicker in water than in the free air.

Ciao

[jrt]

I would think so as well.   I'm just relaying the story as I read it.

[pete mcgee]

Desert, great discription,  beats tearing out hair whilst sobbing in the dark.
JRT, how did we segway from possible plug triumph to expiring Russians?
The thought processes on this site are amazing.......

[Huzo]

He dies. BTW I'm pretty sure you'll die of hypothermia a lot quicker in water than in the free air.

Ciao

The air is a lot colder than the water.

[PJPR01]

The air is a lot colder than the water.

Do we know the wind chill factor?  Perhaps he drowns and gets pulled under as his clothes get heavier and heavier.

Oh the Conundrum.

Speaking of Siberia...another good book to read...The Long Walk (was it fiction or real, also part of the debate). 

[lucky phil]

The air is a lot colder than the water.

Yea ok true, there is that but there is something about the ability of very cold sea water which may be below zero and it's greater ability to chill the body. Like a water temp of 20 deg C feels really cold where 20 deg C air temp feels comfortable. Not sure I'll need to research it. My brain has a couple of spare useless information memory cells vacant at the moment it seems:)

Ciao 

[Huzo]

Yea ok true, there is that but there is something about the ability of very cold sea water which may be below zero and it's greater ability to chill the body. Like a water temp of 20 deg C feels really cold where 20 deg C air temp feels comfortable. Not sure I'll need to research it. My brain has a couple of spare useless information memory cells to vacant at the moment it seems:)

Ciao

I guess you could make the case that given air is less dense than water, heat will not flow as readily when on the land and therefore the body’s heating mechanism will be more effective in getting the core temperature up.
Case in point.
We have much more success in cooling engines with water than air.

[Guzzistajohn]

 Hmmmmmmm

[DesertPilot]

The Plot Thickens
also not by Charles Dickens

I took the bike out for a test ride and it ran quite well for 30 minutes.  Vroom.  Then, as I exited a climbing right turn (see note above about 'Vroom'), the engine quit without warning.  Bit of an eye-opener that was!  I coasted to a stop on the side of the road, determined that the engine wouldn't restart, checked a few more times to determine that it really wouldn't restart, then got off the bike, pulled out my handy OBD2 scanner, and plugged it in to discover [cue ominous music] the Dread P060C Code...





"Bugger," I thought to myself.  "This may entirely fail to be fun."  I sighed, put away the scanner, then climbed back aboard and gave the starter one more try because hey you never know, and...

...to my surprise, the engine fired right up.  Members of my tribe may not always be noted for their wisdom, but we can recognize A Gift From The Motor Gods when we receive it, so I took this opportunity to nip back home while I had chance.  The nipping process was successful and the bike now sits proudly in the garage awaiting a call to the shop, because I'm not going to try to diagnose something that's beginning to seem like [see note above about 'cue ominous music'] a problem with the ECU.

Sigh... Mondays...

[Huzo]

The Plot Thickens
also not by Charles Dickens

I took the bike out for a test ride and it ran quite well for 30 minutes.  Vroom.  Then, as I exited a climbing right turn (see note above about 'Vroom'), the engine quit without warning.  Bit of an eye-opener that was!  I coasted to a stop on the side of the road, determined that the engine wouldn't restart, checked a few more times to determine that it really wouldn't restart, then got off the bike, pulled out my handy OBD2 scanner, and plugged it in to discover [cue ominous music] the Dread P060C Code...





"Bugger," I thought to myself.  "This may entirely fail to be fun."  I sighed, put away the scanner, then climbed back aboard and gave the starter one more try because hey you never know, and...

...to my surprise, the engine fired right up.  Members of my tribe may not always be noted for their wisdom, but we can recognize A Gift From The Motor Gods when we receive it, so I took this opportunity to nip back home while I had chance.  The nipping process was successful and the bike now sits proudly in the garage awaiting a call to the shop, because I'm not going to try to diagnose something that's beginning to seem like [see note above about 'cue ominous music'] a problem with the ECU.

Sigh... Mondays...

Jeez mate you have an endearing turn of phrase.
To be able to maintain a level of levity in the face of such angst is praiseworthy.
Good luck mate.

[lucky phil]

The Plot Thickens
also not by Charles Dickens

I took the bike out for a test ride and it ran quite well for 30 minutes.  Vroom.  Then, as I exited a climbing right turn (see note above about 'Vroom'), the engine quit without warning.  Bit of an eye-opener that was!  I coasted to a stop on the side of the road, determined that the engine wouldn't restart, checked a few more times to determine that it really wouldn't restart, then got off the bike, pulled out my handy OBD2 scanner, and plugged it in to discover [cue ominous music] the Dread P060C Code...





"Bugger," I thought to myself.  "This may entirely fail to be fun."  I sighed, put away the scanner, then climbed back aboard and gave the starter one more try because hey you never know, and...

...to my surprise, the engine fired right up.  Members of my tribe may not always be noted for their wisdom, but we can recognize A Gift From The Motor Gods when we receive it, so I took this opportunity to nip back home while I had chance.  The nipping process was successful and the bike now sits proudly in the garage awaiting a call to the shop, because I'm not going to try to diagnose something that's beginning to seem like [see note above about 'cue ominous music'] a problem with the ECU.

Sigh... Mondays...

This is the generic troubleshooting list for your code. A few things to check before arriving at the WCS. Worth a look.

Defective controller or programming error.
Bad controller fuse or power supply relay.
Open or shorted circuit or connectors in the CAN harness.
Insufficient control module ground


Ciao

[DesertPilot]

This is the generic troubleshooting list for your code. A few things to check before arriving at the WCS. Worth a look.

Defective controller or programming error.
Bad controller fuse or power supply relay.
Open or shorted circuit or connectors in the CAN harness.
Insufficient control module ground


Ciao

Thanks!  It's that first possibility that gives me pause.  In my experience, stories that begin with the phrase, "Defective controller or programming error," can sometimes end in tears 

My USB adaptor finally arrived, so I could now, in principle, give Guzzidiag a go to see what insights it might provide.  But not today.  It's time to give the brain a rest... or give the rudimentary central nervous system a rest, for members of my species... and see what inspiration tomorrow might bring.

[lucky phil]

Thanks!  It's that first possibility that gives me pause.  In my experience, stories that begin with the phrase, "Defective controller or programming error," can sometimes end in tears 

My USB adaptor finally arrived, so I could now, in principle, give Guzzidiag a go to see what insights it might provide.  But not today.  It's time to give the brain a rest... or give the rudimentary central nervous system a rest, for members of my species... and see what inspiration tomorrow might bring.

Yea it's human nature to head towards the WCS but good troubleshooting practices suggest starting with the simple stuff first. good luck when you get back to it.

Ciao

[PJPR01]

Does Guzzidiag work on the V85?  I may have missed that memo...great if it does, you'll be able to read some of the faults there.

What is the equivalent of the 15M or 5M version for the V85, just for grins...if anyone knows.

[Kiwi_Roy]

really wouldn't restart, then got off the bike, pulled out my handy OBD2 scanner, and plugged it in to discover [cue ominous music] the Dread P060C Code...

This got my attention, the fact that you can read codes without having to resort to a laptop that is so alien to any flat surface that the bike has.
I seem to be the only one that expects Guzzidiag to throw up errors in plain English, all my laptop does is show a cryptic code that I then have to look for on some elusive file.
So what code reader are you using, I have a generic code reader that refuses to display anything although I know it has at least one error on the ECU.
My old Apple laptop will only work with an old version of GuzziDiag, does the latest Guzziiag have a real Man Machine interface?

[jrt]

Desert, great discription,  beats tearing out hair whilst sobbing in the dark.
JRT, how did we segway from possible plug triumph to expiring Russians?
The thought processes on this site are amazing.......

I don't know...just talented, I guess.  I assure you that those in charge of subtitles have been sacked....

Ok- I won't derail any more, I hope.   Of the possibilities listed, I'd look for 'relay or ground' first.  As it was suggested- KISS.

[DesertPilot]

This got my attention, the fact that you can read codes without having to resort to a laptop that is so alien to any flat surface that the bike has.
I seem to be the only one that expects Guzzidiag to throw up errors in plain English, all my laptop does is show a cryptic code that I then have to look for on some elusive file.
So what code reader are you using, I have a generic code reader that refuses to display anything although I know it has at least one error on the ECU.
My old Apple laptop will only work with an old version of GuzziDiag, does the latest Guzziiag have a real Man Machine interface?

It's an old garden-variety Inovna 3100 I had lying around the place.  I'd have preferred a unit that played the appropriate tune for each code -- the Imperial March from 'Star Wars' for something ominous, like P060B (A/D converter), and 'Yummy Yummy Yummy' by the Ohio Express for something like  P0110 (Air Temperature Sensor) that was merely annoying -- but we must make do with what we have.

[Kiwi_Roy]

I watched the U-tube review of the 3100, it looks really comprehensive, all I can say is why would you want to use a laptop that gives you less information.
It would be good to see a review of other types particularly with Guzzi in mind.

[lucky phil]

This got my attention, the fact that you can read codes without having to resort to a laptop that is so alien to any flat surface that the bike has.
I seem to be the only one that expects Guzzidiag to throw up errors in plain English, all my laptop does is show a cryptic code that I then have to look for on some elusive file.
So what code reader are you using, I have a generic code reader that refuses to display anything although I know it has at least one error on the ECU.
My old Apple laptop will only work with an old version of GuzziDiag, does the latest Guzziiag have a real Man Machine interface?

Why don't you just download a free OBD app Roy.

Ciao

[Huzo]

Does Guzzidiag work on the V85?  I may have missed that memo...great if it does, you'll be able to read some of the faults there.

What is the equivalent of the 15M or 5M version for the V85, just for grins...if anyone knows.

Yes it works with the 7SM ECU..(V85).
You will need the appropriate plug, but they are easily obtainable.
You won’t be able to adjust the CO trim though.

[Kiwi_Roy]

Why don't you just download a free OBD app Roy.

Ciao

PM sent.

[DesertPilot]

I watched the U-tube review of the 3100, it looks really comprehensive, all I can say is why would you want to use a laptop that gives you less information.
It would be good to see a review of other types particularly with Guzzi in mind.

The nice thing about a small portable scanner like the 3100 -- if you ignore its stubborn refusal to play music -- is that you can toss in the topcase to check for codes that might otherwise have surreptitiously vanished by the time you get home.  Yes, one could pack along a laptop instead, with the intention of plugging it in and booting it up by the side of the road while fiddling with wires and trying not to drop it oops crunch, but for some strange reason that I'm entirely at a loss to explain, this concept has failed to thrill me 

[DesertPilot]

I finally was able to schedule a visit to the shop and take the bike in so they could look at the bike under warranty.  They gave Piaggio a call and were advised to update the ECU software.  They did so, I rode it home without any adventures, and it now sits smugly (it is, after all, a Guzzi  ) in the garage waiting until I have an opportunity to take it out on a reasoanably lengthy test ride.

[LowRyter]

I guess you could make the case that given air is less dense than water, heat will not flow as readily when on the land and therefore the body’s heating mechanism will be more effective in getting the core temperature up.
Case in point.
We have much more success in cooling engines with water than air.

this

[DesertPilot]

UPDATED UPDATE: I took the V85 out on a test ride over the same roads where it had suffered its glitches, and new glitches were conspicuous by their absence, so evidence suggests that it's fixed.  Time for a glass of wine!