(NGC) Turn signal modulator for LED bulbs

[Mojo]

Where do I get one? Which one do I need? Where does it go on my bike? I want to use LED turn signal bulbs but they won't blink without some resistance in line. I understand that a modulator is the clean way to go. Does it just plug in somewhere under the seat...like a car does?

Thanks

[pehayes]

Should be easy.  Old fashioned flasher units used resistance and heat to open/close their contacts to break/make the circuitry.  Your LED's just don't have enough resistance to do this.  You need an 'electronic' or 'digital' or 'solid state' flasher unit.  That will use a tiny internal logic board to 'compute' flash sequences without regard to the downstream loads.  Take your old flasher unit.  Go to a good auto supplier and ask.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

[jkguzzi]

I used the CF12ANL-01 from these guys to replace the existing flasher on the Convert.

http://www.superbrightleds.com/cgi-bin/store/index.cgi?action=DispPage&Page2Disp=%2Fflashers.htm

[waspp]

I just installed a set of LED turn signals on my 03 LeMans and bought a 2 pin flasher to replace the original Simple plug in replacement from VLED which I got off ebay also found here:
http://www.v-leds.com/Electronic-LED-Flashers/c122487-1-3/

[Seagondollar]

pehayes - I don't know that you're exactly right.  Or I may have just misunderstood your statement.  It's my understanding that the old style flashers rely on the current drawn by incandescent bulbs to heat (you said that) a bimetallic strip to interrupt the contacts and current flow.  LEDs draw less power (and therefore current) and will not cause the clicky clicky (there I go getting technical!   ::) )

The electronic ones sense a much smaller current.

I have a universal flasher that I bought from Cycle Gear that I need to get installed before the Raleigh Eurobike get together.  Along with some hyperlites. 

[boatdetective]

Great info- thanks!  hey, can someone comment on modifying this set up so you get a "click" noise? I think the audible signal would be just as important- if not more so- than the brightness of the bulb.  Guzziology mentions installing a relay- would you have to use the same (fairly big) units as for the starter? Does the relay install between the battery and the LED flasher?

[Seagondollar]

A relay is used for handling more current and not necessary for LED flashers, as you will be using less current. 

Since I wear earplugs and there's generally more noise, I've considered mounting a single LED in the top back of the front turn signals so that I have a visual indication of their activity.  If you're looking for noise, there are many devices, such as Sonalerts that will give you an audible.  The trick is that you can't cross connect them to both left and right turn signals because that gives you 4 way flashers.  There needs to be a diode for each side so that it OR(s) the circuits.  In other words, it beeps on the left OR the right turn signal. 

[pehayes]

pehayes - I don't know that you're exactly right.  Or I may have just misunderstood your statement.  It's my understanding that the old style flashers rely on the current drawn by incandescent bulbs to heat (you said that) a bimetallic strip to interrupt the contacts and current flow.  LEDs draw less power (and therefore current) and will not cause the clicky clicky (there I go getting technical!   ::) )

The electronic ones sense a much smaller current.

I think we're saying the same thing.  I like your explanation better.  However, I don't think the electronic flashers 'sense' the current flow to the LED.  Without knowing this answer, I suspect that an electronic flasher would internally 'flash' even if you removed the indicator bulbs altogether.  It is just a timed computation.  Perhaps at least one downstream draw is necessary just to activate part of the circuitry?

Patrick

[pehayes]

My SPII has silent a silent flasher.  I bought some tiny piezo-electric buzzers from Radio Shack and wired those in parallel with the rear blinker wiring under the seat.  I can't hear them while riding but I can at idle and especially when I turn the bike off.  Oddly, these blinkers will operate with the key off and its a good way to kill the battery.  The buzzers prevent me from walking away with the flasher going.

Patrick

[boatdetective]

Hey - thanks for the tip.  I'm still not positive on how or where the alarm would be wired in and where to mount the diodes and LED converter. I wanted to simplify the panel by only having a single turn signal lamp. Is there any way you could sketch out a diagram?

[Wayne Orwig]

Hey - thanks for the tip.  I'm still not positive on how or where the alarm would be wired in and where to mount the diodes and LED converter. I wanted to simplify the panel by only having a single turn signal lamp. Is there any way you could sketch out a diagram?

If the LEDs draw enough current, you can wire a Sonalert type device across the flasher. When the flasher opens, the Sonalert will buzz. But that depends on the Sonalert current draw and LED current.

The two wire 'electronic' flasher I used once was a relay, large cap, and resistor. The cap was across the coil, slowly charged, pulled the relay which shorted the circuit, slowly discharged and the relay dropped out. It made some noise, but it also took a bit of current to operate even through the LEDs.

[Seagondollar]

PEHAYES brings up and interesting thought for a test by those that have them.  If the electronic flashers work by detecting voltage (turn signal switch closure), they should work even if both bulbs are removed.  But I believe most flashers exist upstream from the flasher (between the switch and the battery), so that would mean they wouldn't work with the bulbs out. 

When I install mine, I'll try it out without the bulbs.   ;-T

[rodekyll]

A little clarification:

The bimetal points type (traditional clicker) turn relay needs a certain amount of load to heat up the points and make them work.  The LEDs don't provide the load.

The relays that work with LEDs are not load dependent.  They click on a timer.  You can adjust the delay on the fancy ones.

Many 'digital' 'electronic' etc labels on turn relays are meaningless.  The ones at the local autozone-type stores often have transparent casings and you can see the coils and points inside.  Those won't work, despite the words on the label.  The kids at the parts counter don't know from LEDs.  They point and grunt at the wording on label and hold out their hand for the $$.

So my recommendation is to get the relay at the same place you get the bulbs.  They know what LED means.  Tell them what you're doing and they'll tell you what you need to get there.  $8 - $12 is what I pay for mine.

The other way is to add load to the LED circuits, either with a supplimental incandescent bulb or with a resistor/potentiometer in the line.  With a pot you can adjust your delay.  Any of these methods consume more power, so if you're switching to LEDs to decrease your electric budget, you won't get there from here.

[boatdetective]

Very helpful, RK- thanks. the folks at superbrightLEDS do sell an inexpensive modulator that should work. I was looking into the idea of a sonalert as well. I've got the specs and will post them. I recall the unit puts out 85-90dB. I'm not quite sure if this is something you would hear over the engine. In that event, I guess you could get another one of their myriad buzzers.  Here's a wiring question- would you wired everything up as follows?  Battery > flasher > alarm > LED modulator > LED? 

[jreagan]

Don't forget that many OEM auto thermal flashers also double their flash rate when a bulb appears missing or burned out.  If you only think "higher current draw = quicker heating on the bimetal element = quicker flash rate", you'll get confused even more.  However, add-on flashers like for a trailer that you buy at PepBoys etc. may not have this feature since they don't know exactly what the normal current draw is.  I have no idea on what kind of flasher are used on your Guzzi.

[Wayne Orwig]

Battery > flasher > alarm > LED modulator > LED? 

Flasher?
Modulator?

What is this modulator the you are talking about?

[Seagondollar]

Battery > flasher > alarm > LED modulator > LED? 

Flasher?
Modulator?

What is this modulator the you are talking about?

His name is Luap McKeever, and we all respect him and his work. 

[Wayne Orwig]

Battery > flasher > alarm > LED modulator > LED? 

Flasher?
Modulator?

What is this modulator the you are talking about?

His name is Luap McKeever, and we all respect him and his work. 

Oh, that cleared it up. 8)


 ???

[T in NC]

A little pricey to just control turn signals, but they add automatic cancellation, running lights and four way flashers.

https://www.kisantech.com/index.php?cat_id=4

[rodekyll]

Very helpful, RK- thanks. the folks at superbrightLEDS do sell an inexpensive modulator that should work. I was looking into the idea of a sonalert as well. I've got the specs and will post them. I recall the unit puts out 85-90dB. I'm not quite sure if this is something you would hear over the engine. In that event, I guess you could get another one of their myriad buzzers.  Here's a wiring question- would you wired everything up as follows?  Battery > flasher > alarm > LED modulator > LED? 

I'd simply unplug the old flasher unit and plug in the new one.

If you need an audible,

1)  get a flasher with the extra connector for the dash light and wire up the beeper to that pin.
    or
2)   Wire the beeper into the existing dash light circuit
    or
3)   If you want to get really fancy, get two beepers and wire them in parallel from the front turn lights.  Then you can have like c# for left and G for right.

I ran audibles on the rodekyll for a while.  I used door warning buzzers from some wrecked car done up as #3, above. Whenever I signaled a turn people thought I was backing up.  Once I got confused and thought I was backing up, too, so I got off to see what was happening.  It was a bad idea, since I was changing lanes on the interstate at the time.  Now I have superbright LEDs for dash indicators.  They're pointed in my general direction, so I can see them well in the daylight.

[boatdetective]

RK-  I was having a hard time figuring by lumens alone if the LEDs were worth it. I you fine they are good & bright in daylight then I'll try them out with the modulator thingy from the same folks. Audible sounds interesting- but i think it would take some trial & error to get right.

THKS

[rodekyll]

A lot of the visibility of LEDS is in the angle of the projected light v the angle of viewing.  I've got mine (5mm LED) seated in a bright bezel, so the entire bezel lights up.  If you point the LED too directly at your eyes you are overwhelmed in the dark.

[JPL]

Flasher?
Modulator?

What is this modulator the you are talking about?

[/quote]

I think this whole thread is regarding flashers. To me a modulator means rapidly blinking or dimming lights.

Actually, for LED turn signals a modulator, used with some kind of flasher of course, is a kinda cool idea. The end result would be a signal that flashes rapidly followed a pause then repeats.

[Peter Vitez]

I ran an electronic flasher for a few years. Very cool. Had it programmed for 3 quick flashes before settling into a regular blink rate. Another good thing was that it would turn the bulb on instantly, instead of the usual skipped first beat. Good for quick lane changes.

[normzone]

I'd simply unplug the old flasher unit and plug in the new one.

If you need an audible,

1)  get a flasher with the extra connector for the dash light and wire up the beeper to that pin.
    or
2)   Wire the beeper into the existing dash light circuit
    or
3)   If you want to get really fancy, get two beepers and wire them in parallel from the front turn lights.  Then you can have like c# for left and G for right.

I ran audibles on the rodekyll for a while.  I used door warning buzzers from some wrecked car done up as #3, above. Whenever I signaled a turn people thought I was backing up.  Once I got confused and thought I was backing up, too, so I got off to see what was happening.  It was a bad idea, since I was changing lanes on the interstate at the time.  Now I have superbright LEDs for dash indicators.  They're pointed in my general direction, so I can see them well in the daylight.

I stumbled into this post insearching for a turn signal annunicator that would chant " left, left" or "right, right". Kind of like in Bladerunner where the crosswalk light chants "don't walk, don't walk".

I think that [rodekyll]'s wrecked car salvage is the closest I'm going to find. Now I just need to figure out which car to wreck, and how I'm going to accomplish it.