Norge Questions: Is the old technology got better value then the new techs?

[Egri Bikuci Guzzi]

I got a 2014 Norge. 
I like to know if the Norge's "old school" technology is better then the new electronically controlled everything? I purchased the Norge for the so called "old school" reason. I thought if there is less electronics, less things can go wrong and I can spend more time on the road not in the repair shop.  What do you think?  Did I choose the right motorcycle? I was thinking about a BMW R1200RT, but the new tech. and the $9-$10k price deference also turned me off to go through with it.

[canuguzzi]

Second guessing an already purchased motorcycle probably doesn't help much.

The Norge has electronics. It doesn't have the more advanced electronic rider assist features but having them or not isn't the primary factor in determining on-road reliability.

Enjoy the Norge, it is a very good ST.

[JeffOlson]

The Norge is indeed a great sport touring motorcycle. I do not think it is terribly old school, as it does have electronics, but it is definitely not as technologically over-burdened as, say, some BMWs. Importantly, it is a very capable motorcycle, and it has soul and "panache" (from another thread), something that many bikes lack.

Speaking of Norges and BMWs, you could buy two or three new Norges for the price of one option-laden BMW RT. You got yourself a heck of a motorcycle for not much money. Ride it, and enjoy it!

[Murray]

Still waiting for the snow to melt?

[oldbike54]

 Dang , now I want some real blueberry pancakes 

  Dusty

[beetle]

Dang , now I want some real blueberry pancakes 

How 'bout bunny pancakes?

[ITSec]

It's a scale, or range. At one end, the BMW RT with ESA and all the wonky stuff, and the Yamaha FJR right next to it. At the other end, bikes that only have enough electronics to run the fuel injection. Good bikes can be found anywhere along the scale - i.e., the Caponord is closer to the BMW/Yammy end, the Norge closer to the more basic.

'Value' is a subjective thing - the bike that has all the qualities you most appreciate while still having an attractive price is the bike with the highest 'value'.

I bought a left-over 2008 2v Norge in 2011. It has more 'value' than the newer 8v Norge - for me - because I could buy it for cash in hand, I could spend the extra tailoring it to my liking (Russell Day-Long saddle, cruise control, windshield, many more farkles), and still have some money to buy gas.

I have done IT consulting for many years; my advice to people who want to buy PCs is much like it is to riders. As a rule, buy one step behind the leading edge - you'll get most of the benefits, with few of the teething problems and a very attractive price.

I'll take bunny pancakes - don't like blueberries!

[kingoffleece]

Less technology was one of the reasons I bought a Norge.  The bike has so much character and such a unique feel that I found  fantastic.
At some point I think the owner has to connect in some way with the machine.  After many years and many bikes these Guzzis seem to hit a "happy place" that brings a satisfaction unobtainable in other machines.  This, of course, is completely subjective.

After a season on the bike you may very well experience something similar.

[Doppelgaenger]

The answer to your question, according to some guzzi mechanics I've spoken to, is yes.

The new cali 1400s have been experiencing some problems with their ride by wire throttle control systems that can't be serviced by a dealer tech without direct assistance from Piaggio. The big P has also been less than stellar in supporting their dealer network so some bikes have been in the shop for extended periods while trying to get them working right.

The same people have even gone as far to say that the 1100 4v engine in the older Norges is superior to the 8v engine for the same reasons. It's less powerful, but more reliable. This opinion didn't include the flat tappet issue on the 8v. The italian bike manufacturers are well known for not understanding electricity completely, and given the same level of tech I would trust a BMW more than I would trust a Guzzi in this matter. Ultimately an all-mechanical machine will be more reliable down the road, but it can't hope to compete toe to toe with the new technology. And euro emissions specs plus the required electronic aides like ABS and traction control mean that the electronics are here to stay. Carbs are more reliable, but they require more maintenance. ABS and traction control will pay for themselves when it's the difference between slowing down and time in the hospital with a broken collarbone, or much worse...

Did you make the right choice? Go ride a BMW and find out. I recently just had my first riding experience on a boxer twin in the form of the NineT. IMO the boxer is the superior engine when it comes to smoothness and performance compared to my Breva 1100, but it can't hope to compete with the engine feel and noise of the Guzzi. They deliver power differently and are very different bikes. I see the value in both and would rather own both bikes than have to make a choice.

[pete roper]

If you go back far enough you can find a demand valve side valve run by a vaporising heat system with heat based ignition. It wil have wired on tyre's and no brakes to speak of. If you want to ride after dark you could get acetylene lighting too.

OK, it would be shithouse but it would be fixable in the back yard because that's where this stuff was invented! It was brilliant in its day and still engenders respect to this day but do you really want to freeze or even turn back the clock?

Choose your technology but don't whinge if the world moves on.

Pete

[pete roper]

The new cali 1400s have been experiencing some problems with their ride by wire throttle control systems that can't be serviced by a dealer tech without direct assistance from Piaggio. The big P has also been less than stellar in supporting their dealer network so some bikes have been in the shop for extended periods while trying to get them working right.

Really? The RBW is not only very simple but very reliable. Methinks the 'Techs' sumply aren't 'Techy' enough. A box of spanners does not a mechanic make. But I'm old so what would I know???

I haven't had to ask for someone to hold my hand yet and I'm dumber than dogshit.

Pete

[beetle]

The same people have even gone as far to say that the 1100 4v engine in the older Norges is superior to the 8v engine for the same reasons. It's less powerful, but more reliable.

Hogwash.

Carbs are more reliable, but they require more maintenance.

Yes. My FI breaks down weekly. I'm so disheartened by fuel injection that I want to put carbs on my Griso so that I'll have something to work on weekly while I'm patching up my unreliable 8V.

[pete roper]

Also there was never an 1100 Norge in any iteration, 2 or 4 VPC. If you are going to pontificate at least get the basic facts right.

[Cool Runnings]

I got a 2014 Norge. 
I like to know if the Norge's "old school" technology is better then the new electronically controlled everything? I purchased the Norge for the so called "old school" reason. I thought if there is less electronics, less things can go wrong and I can spend more time on the road not in the repair shop.  What do you think?  Did I choose the right motorcycle? I was thinking about a BMW R1200RT, but the new tech. and the $9-$10k price deference also turned me off to go through with it.

Wait till you start looking at the maintenance schedule. Jap bikes you pretty much change engine oil and ride.

[blackcat]

Wait till you start looking at the maintenance schedule. Jap bikes you pretty much change engine oil and ride.

Valve adjustments are required but if you are handy with a feeler gauge it is kind of a no brainer and after a few miles on the bike, those adjustments hardly every change. I purchased my 07 Norge new and its never been back to the dealer as I do all of my own maintenance.

Have I greased the steering head bearings after 55,000 miles? No, I guess it is about time and I'm also guessing that it must be in most scheduled maintenance manuals for most bikes. 

[Wayne Orwig]

Carbs are more reliable,

That may be hard to prove. Having had carb bikes for over 40 years, and FI bike for over 25 years, I call it a wash.
And the FI bikes tend to have better sealed systems, so the fuel doesn't go stale from sitting a few weeks, or even many months.
 

[Wayne Orwig]

Wait till you start looking at the maintenance schedule. Jap bikes you pretty much change engine oil and ride.

I spent a LOT of weekends doing valve adjustments on a Honda. One V4 started with 'drain the radiator'. That was a 6 hour job. I can do a Guzzi before breakfast that go ride.

[Cool Runnings]

Valve adjustments are required but if you are handy with a feeler gauge it is kind of a no brainer and after a few miles on the bike, those adjustments hardly every change. I purchased my 07 Norge new and its never been back to the dealer as I do all of my own maintenance.

Have I greased the steering head bearings after 55,000 miles? No, I guess it is about time and I'm also guessing that it must be in most scheduled maintenance manuals for most bikes.

Do you have to remove the tank and faring for valve adjustment?

[LowRyter]

The answer to your question, according to some guzzi mechanics I've spoken to, is yes.

The new cali 1400s have been experiencing some problems with their ride by wire throttle control systems that can't be serviced by a dealer tech without direct assistance from Piaggio. The big P has also been less than stellar in supporting their dealer network so some bikes have been in the shop for extended periods while trying to get them working right.

The same people have even gone as far to say that the 1100 4v engine in the older Norges is superior to the 8v engine for the same reasons. It's less powerful, but more reliable. This opinion didn't include the flat tappet issue on the 8v. The italian bike manufacturers are well known for not understanding electricity completely, and given the same level of tech I would trust a BMW more than I would trust a Guzzi in this matter. Ultimately an all-mechanical machine will be more reliable down the road, but it can't hope to compete toe to toe with the new technology. And euro emissions specs plus the required electronic aides like ABS and traction control mean that the electronics are here to stay. Carbs are more reliable, but they require more maintenance. ABS and traction control will pay for themselves when it's the difference between slowing down and time in the hospital with a broken collarbone, or much worse...

Did you make the right choice? Go ride a BMW and find out. I recently just had my first riding experience on a boxer twin in the form of the NineT. IMO the boxer is the superior engine when it comes to smoothness and performance compared to my Breva 1100, but it can't hope to compete with the engine feel and noise of the Guzzi. They deliver power differently and are very different bikes. I see the value in both and would rather own both bikes than have to make a choice.

This is the first post I've read that some Cal 14's have suffered extended problems with the ride by wire.  The only consistent problem I've seen are some crossover issues on some of the early models.  You might elaborate about this as it's news to most of us here on the board.

Regarding the Beemers, I can say the new water cooled R1200 RS & RT models have definite kick when it comes to power.

 

[canuguzzi]

I spent a LOT of weekends doing valve adjustments on a Honda. One V4 started with 'drain the radiator'. That was a 6 hour job. I can do a Guzzi before breakfast that go ride.

Maybe that one. I've had several V4 Hondas, valves were rarely out of adjustment and draining a radiator takes minutes.

Just picked up a Yamaha Fazer, 86 model, valves every 26,000 miles and this one at 24,000 needs no adjustments. Stab the starter and its running, a carb bike and no choke needed.

Technology is a two edged sword. Done right, technology enhancements are great. The simple things done poorly are as bad as any new technology done badly.

The Norge is a very good machine. It cruises distance with any bike of any price. Riding one is most satisfying. If they stay in production no doubt they will apply things like TC and such to it.

[radlefty]

Do you have to remove the tank and faring for valve adjustment?

On my 07 Norge, I didn't have too. Just needed to get a longer T handle torx wrench to reach the top bolts on the valve cover. 

[oldbike54]

How 'bout bunny pancakes?

 Hey Pete , Mark is inviting us over for pancakes 

 Dusty

[blackcat]

Do you have to remove the tank and faring for valve adjustment?

No, but I have the two valve so someone who has a later bike will have to answer that question. But having looked at those 4V bikes, I can't imagine it is a problem.

[canuguzzi]

If a particular motorcycle doesn't do it for you in all aspects, just add another one to the stable. The more the better. 

[twowings]

Really? Just having one has pretty much guaranteed my married sex life as I knew it is over....for good...

[CalvinHobbes]

Do you have to remove the tank and faring for valve adjustment?

You do not have to remove the tank and fairings. However, it takes 2 min to lift tank for easier access to adjust valves on 8v motor.

[Travlr]

There is some newer technology that is excellent: fuel injection and abs come to mind.

I can take or leave multiple power curves and traction control. 

And I don't want electronically adjustable suspensions. 
I rarely used it on bikes I've owned and it is expensive when it's time to replace.

It seems to me the current Norge has a reasonable electronics package.
A good reason to buy now.  Any new stuff will be more complicated.

I'd also like to hear about any ride by wire issues on the Cal. 14.

M

[pete roper]

This is the first post I've read that some Cal 14's have suffered extended problems with the ride by wire.  The only consistent problem I've seen are some crossover issues on some of the early models.  You might elaborate about this as it's news to most of us here on the board.

Regarding the Beemers, I can say the new water cooled R1200 RS & RT models have definite kick when it comes to power.

It's because it's trolling nonsense John. Take no notice.

[canuguzzi]

Really? Just having one has pretty much guaranteed my married sex life as I knew it is over....for good...

Then you have nothing to lose and everything to gain right? Sooner or later you'll pick the bike that does it...

[wymple]

Standard wifey question.....

How many bikes do you need?


Standard hubby answer.....

One more than I've got