NGC - small engine gurus sound off (as in Briggs and Stratton)

[kidsmoke]

to those of you who despise any thread not related to Guzzi's, I apologize. I've attempted to warn you in advance.

To the rest of you, I need a quick referral

Through a surprising turn of events, I need a riding mower ASAP. A quick craigslist search reveals DOZENS. As I've not been in this market before, what should I avoid as in engines, drive systems, brands etc.

Seems I'm in the entry market: less then 24HP, 38 - 52 " deck,

I see automatics, hydro static, Briggs and Stratton, Kohler, Plenty of Deere and Cadets, as well as Ariens, HusQy,Yardman, Craftsman etc etc etc..

So to those up on such things...is there any low hanging fruit I should absolutely avoid? I'm generally a good hunter, but a little inside knowledge would be appreciated.

[Gliderjohn]

Stay far away from anything that says Craftsman and/or Briggs & Stratton. Both a shell of former selves. Also their warranties aren't much of a warranty.
GliderJohn

[kidsmoke]

Stay far away from anything that says Craftsman and/or Briggs & Stratton. Both a shell of former selves. Also their warranties aren't much of a warranty.
GliderJohn

At what point did that occur with B&S?
Found a John Deere with a 21 HP 2 cyl motor and a Hydrostatic tranny. Model was built between 2007 - 2011

[old head]

most of the low end riding mowers are made by Murray in tennessee, or used to  be.  Its only when you get into the mid to upper ranges with different engines that you will probably see some quality improvements, Kohler, kawasaki, Honda, ECT.

Generally, I have had very good luck with the low hanging fruit so to speak.  Depends on what size yard and what else you are going to be doing with the yard tractor will determine its ife.   Just mowing grass most should be fine.

this time of the year Home depot and Sears usually have refurbished mowers 25-35% off.  Last 2 or 3 I bought have been these.  Usually these are barely used had some flaw that was fized and away you go.

If I was getting a Briggs, don't get the cheap motor they make several levels.  Don't get the ones with bronze bearings or carburetor with gas tank as a unit, bad very bad.  I thnks its the gold level, Silver line is bad and cheap

Dont get a Tecumseh, never had one that lasted more than  a year or two

Old Head

[sign216]

Dont get a Tecumseh, never had one that lasted more than  a year or two

Old Head

Are you talking about the orig. made-in-USA Tecumseh, or the newer Chinese ones?  My Tecumseh flat head snowblower engine is 23 yrs old, and still going strong.

[flower_king001]

most of the low end riding mowers are made by Murray in tennessee, or used to  be.  Its only when you get into the mid to upper ranges with different engines that you will probably see some quality improvements, Kohler, kawasaki, Honda, ECT.

Murry closed it's doors in September of 2005 in Lawrenceburg, TN. I knew many folks who used to work there and I myself work right up the road from the old plant.

[old head]

Are you talking about the orig. made-in-USA Tecumseh, or the newer Chinese ones?  My Tecumseh flat head snowblower engine is 23 yrs old, and still going strong.

Not sure, its been years since i bought a lawnmower with a tecumseh engine, worst experience I ever had.  Even the warranty place couldn't get it to run properly.  I could have gotten a lemon I suppose, but I cured me of ever wanting another Tecumseh.  Same with a Silver line Briggs, never again.  Spent more money to trying to get it to run than I paid for it.

I have had real good service from Briggs, excluding the Silver level.  Probably not as good a motor as kohler, Kawasaki, Honda, but I have gotten good service out of most briggs engines.

[PeteS]

At what point did that occur with B&S?
Found a John Deere with a 21 HP 2 cyl motor and a Hydrostatic tranny. Model was built between 2007 - 2011

Avoid water cooled engines, in particular Kawasaki V twins. Otherwise John Deere are pretty good and easy to work on. Stay away from Kubota. Way overpriced and nightmare to work on. The mower decks have at least seven pulleys and if the blade hits anything the pulleys can go out of alignment.

Pete

[flower_king001]

I personally have owned and still do riding mowers by Simplicity....you can order just about every individual part and not have to buy as a component like with Deere or Cadet. I traded in my 25 year old one last year and it was still in good condition.

[RinkRat II]

At what point did that occur with B&S?
Found a John Deere with a 21 HP 2 cyl motor and a Hydrostatic tranny. Model was built between 2007 - 2011

Sounds like the Deere we have at work. Only problem we've encountered was with the idler pulleys for the belt. Cheese o matic plastic with non replaceable bearings. other than that keep up on the maintenance and you'll enjoy mowing. Ours has cupholders too

     Paul B

[kidsmoke]

i've read dozens and dozens of listings today. I can say I've not seen a single tecumsah motor. B&S and Kohler, overwhelmingly, with the odd Kawasaki and an old Honda.

I appreciate the council re: the carb/gas can combo in a newer B&S. Got a line on a almost new Ariens (built by Husqavuarna in  NC) and one review mentioned waiting after fill up before restarting on this model. It's a 19HP.

I'll only be mowing with it, but approx 3 acres, which is A LOT with only 42" deck.

I'm leaning towards the 2 cyl John Deere.

[kidsmoke]

Sounds like the Deere we have at work. Only problem we've encountered was with the idler pulleys for the belt. Cheese o matic plastic with non replaceable bearings. other than that keep up on the maintenance and you'll enjoy mowing. Ours has cupholders too

     Paul B

LA120 - cupholder: check.

[Rough Edge racing]

Stay far away from anything that says Craftsman and/or Briggs & Stratton. Both a shell of former selves. Also their warranties aren't much of a warranty.
GliderJohn

  Are you saying all  B&S engines are bad news....Or just some models?

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

I have one of these:



Purchased nearly 10 years ago for $400, came with a 50" mower deck, push blade and 48" snowblower. I had to put a PTO clutch in it at the start, but the only thing(s) since then have been mower belts (2). Kohler K301 12 hp. single-cylinder engine (one of the toughest ever built). All gear transmission - 8 speeds. Enthusiastic and helpful owner's groups, part availability is still good. Built for commercial use - the only tractors the inmates from the local state pen couldn't break...   

[kidsmoke]

That's right in my wheelhouse Charlie. You did very well.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

That's right in my wheelhouse Charlie. You did very well.

When a friend needed a riding mower for his father a few years ago, I found quite a few nice Gravelys like mine in the $800-$1000 range. Usually just the tractor and mower deck though. He ended up buying a cheapy John Deere which was plagued with small issues.

[bmc5733946]

As far as small mowers and tractors go, look for an engine with an oil filter. Oil filters require an oil pump and a pressure lube rather that a splash lube system. Look for units with the fewest electronic controls as possible. Having looked after many different brands through my working years I firmly believe they are all somewhat troublesome, sort of the nature of the beast. Parts availability may a concern but many things can be found online if not locally, check local dealers with their clients if possible, industrial units go out of production less frequently so parts usually stay available longer.

Brian

[Chuck in Indiana]

As far as small mowers and tractors go, look for an engine with an oil filter.

This. A friend that has a commercial mowing service swears by Kawasaki. I have uh.. about 600 hours on mine. Oil & plugs..
So how come you're going to start mowing, Kip? Bought a new place with motorcycle garage, lift, air compressor, etc.? 
If you find you like mowing, I have plenty of it for you.

[Aaron D.]

Old garden tractors can be a great deal, especially if you are handy. I do doubt you'd find a nice Gravely like that cheap..but a guy in our town has a few.

I've been using Ingersoll/Case products, they are decent.

The thing with engines if you really use your equipment is to get the commercial units.The Vanguard line is made by B&S, they've given me good service.

Onan engined older stuff is nice but can be a pain to work on, and you will work on them.

+10 on getting a pressure lube engine, assuming you need this level of equipment. Honda commercial splash engines seem to ast a long time though.

[zebraranger]

The best little riding mower that I've ever had. Its Snapper 17/33 with a Briggs & Stratton Intek motor and a 33" deck, its going on 17 years old and nothing has ever broke on it. It uses a real oil filter and all I do is change the oil and filter once a year, the blade as needed, and I've only changed the belt once in the 17 years that I've had it. I live in Florida so its get used just about every week year around. I have your average size residential lot, so I didn't need a large mower when I bought it. I needed something that would fit thru the side gate and this fit the bill. Its been solid as a rock. If you have a small to medium size yard, I definitely recommend an older Snapper if you run across one. For sure stay away from the Craftsman riders, especially the newer ones.

[zebraranger]

I have one of these:



Purchased nearly 10 years ago for $400, came with a 50" mower deck, push blade and 48" snowblower. I had to put a PTO clutch in it at the start, but the only thing(s) since then have been mower belts (2). Kohler K301 12 hp. single-cylinder engine (one of the toughest ever built). All gear transmission - 8 speeds. Enthusiastic and helpful owner's groups, part availability is still good. Built for commercial use - the only tractors the inmates from the local state pen couldn't break...

Love that Gravely.

[Lannis]

This. A friend that has a commercial mowing service swears by Kawasaki. I have uh.. about 600 hours on mine. Oil & plugs..

I have a Husqvarna zero-turn mower with the Kawasaki FH680 V-twin air-cooled 25 HP engine, also with about 600 hours.

Only thing to watch for, on ANY air-cooled shrouded engine, is mice living under the shroud.  A bunch had moved in just as fall started ... I didn't check, used the mower hard, without knowing that the cooling fins were STUFFED with mouse nests and (now) dead mice.   The engine overheated, the guides slipped out of the heads, and bent the pushrods.

Not hard to replace the rods but cost $100 a head to get the valves redone.   The shop says that in the high season they do 4 or 5 a week like that ....

Otherwise, they'll run forever.

Lannis

[Gliderjohn]

To explain my earlier comment. I had a new Craftsman 42" rider with a 20hp "premium" B&S engine. By about the middle of the first season it was using some oil and smoking at times. It would also throw the blade belts easily in somewhat rougher grass. During the second season it was using a half a qt. of oil per tank of gas. Mosquitoes were not a problem. Both Sears and B&S said that was in normal specs and would not do anything.
Knew another person with the same mower and same problem with the same lack of backing.
I replaced it with a used 42" JD with the Kaw 17HP twin. I have used it seven seasons now with no problems and it will cut through stuff that made the Craftsman whimper.
GliderJohn

[80CX100]

I'll be following this thread, because I will be looking for a decent mower in the future,,, I don't have any in mind that I can recommend,,, but I can throw a little fuel on the fire,lol.

Re the Tecumseh topic,,, my brother who is a great small engine mechanic,,, explained it to me this way,,, Tecumseh's are great engines in the winter and excellent for snowblowers,,, for mowers in the summer use anything else,fwiw.

Same brother runs a very old Cub Cadet? swears by it,,, old iron like that or Charlie's beauty of a Gravely just can't be beat.

They aren't made the way they used to be,,, my 25 yr old Craftsman with a 16 hp Kohler single,,, had been abandoned in one of my sheds for 7-8 yrs,,, pulled it out,,, cleaned up the electrical contacts,,, no quick start,,, just the old gas and it fired right up,,, I was impressed.

John Deere yellow decks used to be made in the US and used to be good,,, I have a friend with a top of the line JD yellow deck from Home Depot and it's a piece of crap,,, my 12 hp JD with a black deck is a piece of crap,,, the rear of the deck is suspended by 2 sliding bars,,, jumps out of position with any type of contact with anything,,, comes out easy,,, very tough to get back in,pita.

I have another friend with a top of the line new Cub Cadet,,, he's always had problems with it,,, changing belts all the time

I have the Kawasaki 620 water cooled engine in my Argo, engine replaced with minimal hrs on the clock,,,, hates ethanol gas,,, carb seizes solid at the sight of it, and the valves tend to stick,,, recommended to run a little ATF in the gas every now and then to keep the valves sliding.

Charlie's lucky he doesn't live any closer,,, that Gravely would look sweet in the back of my trailer,lol.

fwiw ymmv

Kelly

 

[redhawk47]

My 2 cents:
Engine: Kohler, Kawasaki or Honda
Riding mowers come in two varieties - garden tractors and riding mowers. That Gravely is a garden tractor, it has a separate frame, and is much sturdier than the riding mowers with a stamped steel pan that things bolt to. Early Cub Cadets are garden tractors - I had one that was great.
My last riding mower had a hydrostatic transmission - it made life much better.
My current mower is a Hustler ZTR. I mow about one acre; about half is lawn with trees and other obstacles. It takes me about half the time to mow it compared to the riding mower. Totally reliable, Kawasaki engine, and a good dealer if I should need help.
A "cup" holder is a must; you need to hydrate mowing that much.

[Shorty]

I have a brand new Craftsman 17.5 rider, a brand new chainsaw,a power washer,  and a brand new weed eater, all with clogged carburetors from crappy gas and sitting.  Yes I put Stabil in them, yes I used premium gas. So, I get to do a carb cleaning  marathon here probably this weekend. Not sure buying high end equipment would have spared me any trouble. Starting and running stuff, even off season: priceless.

[Sasquatch Jim]

  I bought a John Deere zero turn mower because growing up in farm country in the state where Deere is made, they had a sterling reputation.  Now days some of there mowers are built by someone other than Deere and are cheap pieces of crap and John Deere won't back them up.  "We didn't make it" they explain.  I told them then they should not put their name on it.  No response.  Mine had mysterious fuel problems that caused it to shut down several times while mowing a modest size yard.  I would have to disconnect a fuel line and use a squeeze bulb ear syringe to suck fuel into to the lines to prime it to get it running again.  The brilliant engineers designed it with the fuel tank below the engine with a fruitcake fuel pump powered by pulses of vacuum of the valve cover positive crankcase ventilation system.  It took me almost a year to sort my way through the numerous ways it could fail to provide fuel.  In desparation I was going to mount a fuel tank above the engine so it could gravity feed.  While I was planning this, I finally solved enough of the problems that now it runs pretty good, no thanks to Deere for any help.  I went on the internet with my problems and found that many folks have had problems with Deere zero turn mowers.

[kidsmoke]

thanks everyone! even though I had to move quick, there was feedback in this thread that I believe helped me avoid some headaches. Time will tell.

When a friend needed a riding mower for his father a few years ago, I found quite a few nice Gravelys like mine in the $800-$1000 range. Usually just the tractor and mower deck though. He ended up buying a cheapy John Deere which was plagued with small issues.

yep. after your post I went national, expanding my search to a range I wouldn't really consider, and there are a few, and they're not inexpensive. I'm hoping I don't have the issues you described.

Ended up with this:
John Deere LA120.
21 HP Briggs and Stratton twin
pressure lube
hydrostatic trans
42" deck
146 hrs

If anyone knows more about it, or the motor in particular, please share.



Guy I bought it from is a contractor who had this for his home and serviced it well. That was a big issue with many of the older machines I saw. With the money I was willing to spend, anything that was large enough, robust enough and cheap enough was OLD, and despite the equipment, I'd have no real idea knowing how it'd been cared for. This is a "newer" machine, but seems to employ a bit better grade of gear than others at my price point.

Still, it's temporary. I'll be taxing this little guy. I think a zero turn is in my future.

So how come you're going to start mowing, Kip? Bought a new place with motorcycle garage, lift, air compressor, etc.? 
If you find you like mowing, I have plenty of it for you.

Didn't buy. Renting. again. moving up in facilities, and reducing cost, but I had to commit to handling yard care. 10 acre lot, approx 3 are lawn, varied terrain and mature trees. This is really not enough machine, but it qualifies me for a great lease. Chuck, you and Dorcia will certainly be invited, and trust me, you'll understand the appeal. The other 7 acres are wooded, hilly, 2 named creeks traverse the property, on the periphery of a nationally noted birders destination...and I'll be saving money. 2 garages, room for 5 parked vehicles if so inclined (which I'm not) but plenty of room for a lift (and a loop?) and a proper shop area. I'm over the moon about it.

[Chuck in Indiana]

Congrats, Kip.  Sounds great, and... a zero turn is definitely in your future. It will take you all afternoon with that little booger.  I mow three acres with my zero turn in two hours, including trimming.

[kidsmoke]

Congrats, Kip.  Sounds great, and... a zero turn is definitely in your future. It will take you all afternoon with that little booger.  I mow three acres with my zero turn in two hours, including trimming.

I figure with an on board pony keg and a catheter, If I start at 8am, should be done by lunchtime.