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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: demet on September 28, 2021, 07:14:29 PM

Title: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on September 28, 2021, 07:14:29 PM
Hello all, I just purchased this 1971 Ambassador. I've had a few airhead beemers over the years, and my lust for a Moto Guzzi slowly grew until I could stop myself haha. This one has been sitting for 10 years. Seller swore up and down it was running fine. Then he had leak in gas tank, took it off and had it relined and never reconnected it. I had planned to have a mechanic check it out prior to purchase, but I was not able to quickly find one willing to work on it in Portland OR, and I didn't want to miss out on it like I did on another a few weeks ago, so I just bought it.

I'd like to try to get it running, and have basic tools and shop space, but not a lot of experience with vehicle mechanics. But I'm fairly handy and willing to figure things out! If I can find a good mechanic I might have them check it out thoroughly so I know what I have my hands on.

So does anyone have any advice on how to get started? Oh there's also no battery. I do have one from my BMW R90/6 that is good, 6 volt though, these take 12v right? Need to reinstall the petcocks, attach to fuel lines, connect to battery and fire it up? Don't want to damage anything of course. I'll be doing a bunch of research I guess before I get too far.

Thanks for any advice, here is album of pictures. Lots of extra parts, many of which I do not know what they are. But it did come with fairing, cases, rear seat backrest/rack.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/rkinmDKWmffzb9ov6

Ultimately I want to get it rideable and cosmetically presentable, but not fully restored just yet. I plan to just ride it around town mostly, maybe a roadtrip at some point but not a focus for me.
Best
Demetrius
(https://i.ibb.co/G0yZvXx/IMG-20210928-160723.jpg) (https://ibb.co/G0yZvXx)
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Canuck750 on September 28, 2021, 07:57:21 PM
Start here - Greg Benders one stop shop of all things Loop Frame, what does not exist on this web site does not matter

https://www.thisoldtractor.com/moto_guzzi_loopframe.html
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on September 28, 2021, 10:15:00 PM
Thanks I am aware of the chrome cylinder sleeve issue. Need to get in there and verify they have not been replaced. Probably not given the history of the bike, but you never know. If chrome looks good, can i run with it for the time being? Or imperative to replace aASAP?
That engine probably still has the original chrome plated cylinders , do not start it until that is dealt with . The experts will come along soon to explain why .

 TS
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: AJ Huff on September 28, 2021, 10:18:47 PM
Replace ASAP if chrome.

-AJ
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on September 28, 2021, 10:31:26 PM
I found that site last night, but thanks! Holy toledo what a resource! Have downloaded user manual, which seller included in faded printed out copy. Good to have on my CPU as well.

Start here - Greg Benders one stop shop of all things Loop Frame, what does not exist on this web site does not matter

https://www.thisoldtractor.com/moto_guzzi_loopframe.html
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on September 28, 2021, 10:32:31 PM
OK I will take it seriously!

My friend here RHAT is new to the Guzzi world , started with a Norge and then went backward to an Ambassador . He is out in San Diego on vacation or he would tell you how expensive and time consuming not dealing with the chrome bore issue before running the bike can be . save the headaches and deal with it , crankshafts are expensive.

 Dusty
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Scout63 on September 28, 2021, 10:43:16 PM
Congratulations and welcome Demetrius. You’re exactly where I was when I bought my first Guzzi and joined this forum. I recommend:

Buy a good shop manual
Clean the bike well.
Remove and clean the carbs
Inspect and clean the sump
Replace all the fluids
Visually inspect the cylinders (inside) and pistons. Rotate the pistons using the rear wheel.
Make sure the airbox, battery box, timing chest, intake and exhausts are clear of rodent nests, etc.
Check steering, swingarm and wheel bearings for proper movement
Check gearbox action and shifting
Check inside fuel tank and all fuel lines
Check brake, throttle and clutch cables.

Then try to start it, but don’t ride it anywhere outside the block without replacing tires and tubes.

It’s a great looking bike and will make you a better mechanic 
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on September 28, 2021, 10:55:09 PM
Thank you! The carbs have been on my mind. Seller told me he drained all the fuel before storage, so hopefully they are not gummed up as I have seen with BMWs I have had. Just need to understand how they work, how they come apart, etc. And then drain oil and inspect sump, yes, hopefully I can find some tutorials/videos on this.

Thinking about tools I might need. I have a good socket set, metric, but not basic wrench set, like the open ended ones that would have been in tool kit. I do have 1976 R90/6 BMW tool kit, so maybe that will suffice?

PS: an R75/5 was my second choice bike, and there is one up for sale nearby that I almost called, but then I found the Ambassador ;-)

Congratulations and welcome Demetrius. You’re exactly where I was when I bought my first Guzzi and joined this forum. I recommend:

Buy a good shop manual
Clean the bike well.
Remove and clean the carbs
Inspect and clean the sump
Replace all the fluids
Visually inspect the cylinders (inside) and pistons. Rotate the pistons using the rear wheel.
Make sure the airbox, battery box, timing chest, intake and exhausts are clear of rodent nests, etc.
Check steering, swingarm and wheel bearings for proper movement
Check gearbox action and shifting
Check inside fuel tank and all fuel lines
Check brake, throttle and clutch cables.

Then try to start it, but don’t ride it anywhere outside the block without replacing tires and tubes.

It’s a great looking bike and will make you a better mechanic
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: AJ Huff on September 28, 2021, 11:28:58 PM
I remember being worried about my cylinders being chromed. Some paperwork I had from when the engine was rebuilt by the previous owner said they were chrome. So dropping the pan one day to check for flakes I looked up and saw the word GILARDONI cast into the bottom of the cylinder casting. Wow what's a relief that was! Maybe you will get lucky too.

-AJ
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Kiwi_Roy on September 29, 2021, 05:01:29 AM
I remember being worried about my cylinders being chromed. Some paperwork I had from when the engine was rebuilt by the previous owner said they were chrome. So dropping the pan one day to check for flakes I looked up and saw the word GILARDONI cast into the bottom of the cylinder casting. Wow what's a relief that was! Maybe you will get lucky too.

-AJ
Are you saying look inside the engine AJ?, mine have it on the outside, they were replaced only 10 years ago. You can also get a slight attraction with a magnet, no attraction with chrome.
You are missing the brackets that go between the frame and exhaust header they are there in picture No 14
How was it stored all those years, look at the tire date code, post it back here they may be ok for a while if it wasn't left in the sun.
Just drop the float bowls off, nut at the bottom you will soon se if they are gummed up, the jets are all accessible right there, you may have to rotate the carbs slightly to get the bowl off.
Don't worry about the rust on the crash bars, rear springs etc, that can be disguised with some silver paint, mine were a lot worse.
Just about any 12 Volt battery can be made to work, these old girls burst into life with the slightest provocation, I think lots of owners use the Wally World lawn tractor variety.
I'm looking forward to your ride report.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: John A on September 29, 2021, 05:41:54 AM
In the pics the external chrome looks good enough that I’d try wax and fine steel wool, work’s wonders.  On the cylinder chrome, it’s very hard so if it comes off and the chips circulate in the oil it will embed in the softer areas like cam bearings and oil pump aluminum surfaces in block and slowly grind away. judicious work with a bearing scraper that most just ignore, myself included unless it’s really bad. At least the main and rod bearings are replaceable
Great bikes once sorted
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on September 29, 2021, 08:55:32 AM
Thanks I am aware of the chrome cylinder sleeve issue. Need to get in there and verify they have not been replaced. Probably not given the history of the bike, but you never know. If chrome looks good, can i run with it for the time being? Or imperative to replace aASAP?

There is no need to "get in there" to determine if it still has chrome bores or not. In some cases, the name "Gilardoni" will be cast into the cylinders between two fins at the base of the cylinders, but not always. Otherwise, remove a sparkplug, make sure the piston is down away from TDC, insert a strong "pencil magnet" and touch it against the cylinder wall. Zero magnetic attraction = chrome, very slight = Nikasil, strong = iron liners.

Sitting around unused is the worst thing for chrome bores. Running an engine so equipped after a long period of storage will lead to rapid delamination/flaking of the chrome. There is no "if" it will happen, only "when". Best to get rid of the chrome bores a.s.a.p.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Mayor_of_BBQ on September 29, 2021, 11:26:19 AM
on the subject of petcocks, be aware if you buy the reproduction 'sugar cube' petcocks, they will leak in short order.  MG Cycle sells an adapter ring/insert that fits a later ('Tonti') Guzzi petcock to the Loopframe tank, this is the route I went.  Unfortunately, like a lot reproduction stuff, they are fiddly to fit. I had to drill mine out slightly and remove the screen. I put inline fuel filters further down the way in the fuel lines and had no problems.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on September 29, 2021, 09:44:13 PM
Looks like I got lucky, found GILARDONI stamped on the bottom of the head! ;)

I remember being worried about my cylinders being chromed. Some paperwork I had from when the engine was rebuilt by the previous owner said they were chrome. So dropping the pan one day to check for flakes I looked up and saw the word GILARDONI cast into the bottom of the cylinder casting. Wow what's a relief that was! Maybe you will get lucky too.

-AJ
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: AJ Huff on September 29, 2021, 10:04:59 PM
Sweet! <High Five>

-AJ
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on September 29, 2021, 10:19:46 PM
OK thanks. I've been wondering about this. The bike came with some petcocks which might be original (?), and there are already fuel filters after that. Do I need to worry about adding a screen to these petcocks if there is a filter in place downstream? Here's picture of the petcocks that came with the bike, which PO said should be fine.

on the subject of petcocks, be aware if you buy the reproduction 'sugar cube' petcocks, they will leak in short order.  MG Cycle sells an adapter ring/insert that fits a later ('Tonti') Guzzi petcock to the Loopframe tank, this is the route I went.  Unfortunately, like a lot reproduction stuff, they are fiddly to fit. I had to drill mine out slightly and remove the screen. I put inline fuel filters further down the way in the fuel lines and had no problems.

(https://i.ibb.co/02MzBTx/IMG-20210928-160551.jpg) (https://ibb.co/02MzBTx)
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on September 29, 2021, 11:04:37 PM
You are missing the brackets that go between the frame and exhaust header they are there in picture No 14

Thanks! But hmmm, trying to figure out what you mean by this? Could you possibly post a picture of what it should look like in place?

How was it stored all those years, look at the tire date code, post it back here they may be ok for a while if it wasn't left in the sun.

Stored in garage I believe. I forgot to take picture of tire date code, will try to do that tomorrow.

Just drop the float bowls off, nut at the bottom you will soon se if they are gummed up, the jets are all accessible right there, you may have to rotate the carbs slightly to get the bowl off.

I couldn't get bottoms off, even trying to twist. Here's a picture with bowls a max. opening/twist:

(https://i.ibb.co/0X7vXp7/IMG-20210929-181600.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0X7vXp7)

Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: normzone on September 29, 2021, 11:32:15 PM
"cosmetically presentable" ?

Please don't touch a thing ... I'm worshipping from afar, memories of my first Guzzi ...
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Tom H on September 29, 2021, 11:53:26 PM
Your petcocks are the Tonti style with the Loop tank adapter. The only question is if the rubber gasket in them doesn't leak?

To remove the float bowl. You need to loosen the clamp on the carb to manifold, then rotate the carb and the bowl will easily come off. If I'm seeing the picture right. The floats look a bit grungy. The rest of the guts probably need a cleaning as well. Before you just tighten up the bowl and call it good. Check the O ring that seals the bowl. As long as it's in place and no cracks, it "should" be OK?? if you want to get it running. Always check for weeps/leaks!!

Congrats on the updates cylinders!!

Tom
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Kiwi_Roy on September 30, 2021, 05:11:04 AM

Thanks! But hmmm, trying to figure out what you mean by this? Could you possibly post a picture of what it should look like in place?
 
https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipN1vKW2qDfPQ4G2_Y3y5VZB1QFFaFLWDk3isGmtnx9LuxswaZQsmy9E8i-V-D2NUQ/photo/AF1QipO3CQ3lCE0r5SNsod-E4ezRj1CdieLJqSsNrDIO?key=dllJVk9mdW9hSlFyRWZ0Q0Nqb0NMV19QUnFkeWl3
Those two clamps go between the lower frame rails and the header pipe just back from the sump, they take the strain off the connection st the head. I can't snap a picture, my bike didn't have them so I used a worm drive clip with a spacer.

Re Petcocks, you said the tank was re-lined so it should be ok with an in-line filter. Actually there is one where the banjo bolts onto the carbs but its quite tiny and not easy to get at.
You should have a crossover sort of X piece that allows you to run with just one petcock open leaving some reserve in the other side.
My bike came with the original sugar cube style which I rebuilt with kits, they are 10 years without leaking. I think the barrel nut on yours is a Left & Right hand thread that allows you to line them up once threaded into the tank.

Congratulations on the Gilodonis, it will have new pistons and rings as well, came with the kit, you should be set for the next 100k miles at least.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Mayor_of_BBQ on September 30, 2021, 05:22:27 AM
OK thanks. I've been wondering about this. The bike came with some petcocks which might be original (?), and there are already fuel filters after that. Do I need to worry about adding a screen to these petcocks if there is a filter in place downstream? Here's picture of the petcocks that came with the bike, which PO said should be fine.

(https://i.ibb.co/02MzBTx/IMG-20210928-160551.jpg) (https://ibb.co/02MzBTx)


Yeah those are later petcocks with the adapter ring. I dont believe you need petcock screens if you have in-line fuel filters
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: vintagehoarder on September 30, 2021, 10:14:57 AM
Congratulations!!  There is something about a loop[ frame Guzzi that can't be explained.  I have only had mine a few months, had the cylinders redone, rebuilt the carbs, tuned, installed a new Greg Bender wiring harness and since then have been just riding the heck out it and the other 10 bikes in garage have just been sitting. I love this thing. Good luck!

(https://photos.smugmug.com/1973-Moto-Guzzi-eldorado-850/i-fRKSwsG/0/2595952d/M/20210925_071333%20%281%29-M.jpg) (https://curtedwards.smugmug.com/1973-Moto-Guzzi-eldorado-850/i-fRKSwsG/A)
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: John A on September 30, 2021, 10:35:57 AM
To get the bowls off with the carbs in place you will need to rotate the carbs. They are usually stuck and can be very hard to turn. With the clamps loose use light penetrating oil, I like to use diesel fuel if I have it, on the area under the clamp. Heat the area with a heat gun. Take an appropriate size block of wood that spans the square portion. What you are trying to do is apply force across the corners.  Tap on on the wood while holding it against the carb top not too high with a slightly heavy hammer carefully so you don’t deform the carb body. I would put the bowls back on loosely for this just so they don’t hang up on anything . Use a large hammer to move things, use a small hammer to form things. Be careful because you could hurt the carb body. If they are super stuck you can make a piece of wood to fit inside in place of the slide to support the square shape but I’ve not had to do that. They are usually easier to rotate after breaking them loose.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Tom H on September 30, 2021, 11:34:51 AM
I was looking at the petcocks again. I think they are missing the tube that is used for the main, then when on reserve, the fuel goes straight into the petcock.

Also, I think one of them has been apart. IIRR the lever should not be able to rotate to where it is.

Tom
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: John A on September 30, 2021, 09:50:41 PM
You can make a standpipe with tubing
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on September 30, 2021, 11:14:57 PM
Ok thanks I will look into adding a tube for the main, thanks! As far as the lever position, are you sure? It looks to me like in my picture one lever is at 'ON' and the other is on "RES'. This is same as my R90/6, lever goes horizontal to stop fuel and either up or down for main/reserve. What am I missing?

I was looking at the petcocks again. I think they are missing the tube that is used for the main, then when on reserve, the fuel goes straight into the petcock.

Also, I think one of them has been apart. IIRR the lever should not be able to rotate to where it is.

Tom
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on September 30, 2021, 11:24:12 PM
OK I see what you mean now about the exhaust brackets. Seems like they are missing on lots of bikes, but I will add mine back, thanks!

And yes, I'm psyched about the cylinder bores/pistons, 100K sounds good to me ;-)

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipN1vKW2qDfPQ4G2_Y3y5VZB1QFFaFLWDk3isGmtnx9LuxswaZQsmy9E8i-V-D2NUQ/photo/AF1QipO3CQ3lCE0r5SNsod-E4ezRj1CdieLJqSsNrDIO?key=dllJVk9mdW9hSlFyRWZ0Q0Nqb0NMV19QUnFkeWl3
Those two clamps go between the lower frame rails and the header pipe just back from the sump, they take the strain off the connection st the head. I can't snap a picture, my bike didn't have them so I used a worm drive clip with a spacer.

Re Petcocks, you said the tank was re-lined so it should be ok with an in-line filter. Actually there is one where the banjo bolts onto the carbs but its quite tiny and not easy to get at.
You should have a crossover sort of X piece that allows you to run with just one petcock open leaving some reserve in the other side.
My bike came with the original sugar cube style which I rebuilt with kits, they are 10 years without leaking. I think the barrel nut on yours is a Left & Right hand thread that allows you to line them up once threaded into the tank.

Congratulations on the Gilodonis, it will have new pistons and rings as well, came with the kit, you should be set for the next 100k miles at least.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Tom H on October 01, 2021, 04:27:46 PM


(https://i.ibb.co/02MzBTx/IMG-20210928-160551.jpg) (https://ibb.co/02MzBTx)


The look to be the same as what I have. The one on the right is the way they normally are, down, left and right. The one on the left has the lever installed so the lever will go up, left and right.

Installed this way, the marks for off/on/res may be backward??

My LH one is a little close to the top of the carb, makes it a bit hard to turn. Maybe I need to install my lever to face up?

Tom
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on October 02, 2021, 03:06:17 PM
I guess what I don't understand is that if ON and RES. are 180-degrees (up and down) from each other, you need to be able to turn lever to both. And horizontal would be off. I'm probably missing something? I'll look more closely at them this afternoon

The look to be the same as what I have. The one on the right is the way they normally are, down, left and right. The one on the left has the lever installed so the lever will go up, left and right.

Installed this way, the marks for off/on/res may be backward??

My LH one is a little close to the top of the carb, makes it a bit hard to turn. Maybe I need to install my lever to face up?

Tom
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Cam3512 on October 03, 2021, 09:51:41 AM
So the tank currently has no petcocks?  If so, I’d spring for some new (correct) ones, with new fuel lines.

Gas staying on the INSIDE is kinda important.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Mayor_of_BBQ on October 03, 2021, 01:49:14 PM
Doesn't the  banjo filter act as a sealing ring as well?


Yep!


And to OP: I have these on my Ambo and they are set up the same on both sides:

straight up: open
handle to front: off
handle to back: reserve

I only run one open, I have a line off each petcock to a carb (with in-line filter), but use the dual port banjos and have a jumper line connecting the banjos/carbs. (I dont use the stock fuel line X fitting- just connected at banjos)
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Tom on October 03, 2021, 03:29:47 PM
You'll need to figure out the shift pattern for your transmission too.  It will be a lot of fun when going from one bike to another.  :shocked:  Find out from the PO would be the easiest way.  Asking other Ambo owners won't really give you an answer for you bike.

Other reference material can be obtained through the MGNOC as a member.  There are 3 Tips books and a quick tune-up guide for purchase.  Really good info for Loop owners.

Get a set up metric wrenches too. 

Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Cam3512 on October 03, 2021, 04:27:59 PM
And, ask questions here.  Loop frame specific ….

https://motoguzzi.groups.io/g/LoopFrames/topics
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on October 04, 2021, 10:00:06 PM
Yeah I can see the logic of that. If I knew exactly which ones to get I might go for new ones, but I think I'll just see how these do for now, keep an eye them for leaks. Thanks!

So the tank currently has no petcocks?  If so, I’d spring for some new (correct) ones, with new fuel lines.

Gas staying on the INSIDE is kinda important.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on October 04, 2021, 10:05:21 PM
I must have different ones, on these ON and RES. are 180 to each other, up and down. OFF is horizontal. At least that what it looks like to me!

(https://i.ibb.co/gjV1gjx/IMG-20211004-165124.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gjV1gjx)


I'm curious about your fuel line set up. WHy did you do it that way versus stock set up? Also I'm not sure what a banjo is??


Yep!


And to OP: I have these on my Ambo and they are set up the same on both sides:

straight up: open
handle to front: off
handle to back: reserve

I only run one open, I have a line off each petcock to a carb (with in-line filter), but use the dual port banjos and have a jumper line connecting the banjos/carbs. (I dont use the stock fuel line X fitting- just connected at banjos)
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on October 04, 2021, 10:11:53 PM
Yeah he told me, I think he said one up and three down, but I'll need to verify of course. Thanks for the tip on Tips books and tune-up guide. I'll look for them for sure! I have a set of Wera metric wrenches on the way ;-)

You'll need to figure out the shift pattern for your transmission too.  It will be a lot of fun when going from one bike to another.  :shocked:  Find out from the PO would be the easiest way.  Asking other Ambo owners won't really give you an answer for you bike.

Other reference material can be obtained through the MGNOC as a member.  There are 3 Tips books and a quick tune-up guide for purchase.  Really good info for Loop owners.

Get a set up metric wrenches too.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Tom H on October 04, 2021, 11:04:51 PM
Your valves are different than what I have for the On/off/res. Not sure what they are from. The valves in this style seem to have a RH and LH valve.

Fuel valves at MG Cycle. Look at the labeling. The second one is the setup I thought you may have had:

https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=379&products_id=1320
https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=379&products_id=5392

Tom
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Kiwi_Roy on October 04, 2021, 11:13:30 PM
I must have different ones, on these ON and RES. are 180 to each other, up and down. OFF is horizontal. At least that what it looks like to me!

(https://i.ibb.co/gjV1gjx/IMG-20211004-165124.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gjV1gjx)


I'm curious about your fuel line set up. WHy did you do it that way versus stock set up? Also I'm not sure what a banjo is??
To have a reserve you need standpipes, I don't see these in your picture. Perhaps you had them off.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Mayor_of_BBQ on October 05, 2021, 07:41:39 AM
I must have different ones, on these ON and RES. are 180 to each other, up and down. OFF is horizontal. At least that what it looks like to me!

(https://i.ibb.co/gjV1gjx/IMG-20211004-165124.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gjV1gjx)


I'm curious about your fuel line set up. WHy did you do it that way versus stock set up? Also I'm not sure what a banjo is??

sorry yes, you have different petcocks than I. I'm using newer model petcocks with the adapter from MGCycle.

as for the (stock) X pipe vs. dual inlet carb banjos with a crossover tube, here is a whole thread on it...
https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=104840.0 (https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=104840.0)

I like the dual inlet banjos with a fuel line from each petcock to its corresponding carb, then a crossover line connecting the two.

Here's your 'dual inlet banjo' for Dellorto carbs:
(https://www.dellortoshop.com/contents/media/7890_dellorto_phb_phbe_fuel_banjo_inlet_metal_double_ds.jpg)
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on October 06, 2021, 02:38:56 PM
Thanks everyone, trying to finish another project before I turn to the bike, although it's hard to not want to get at it ASAP.

I'm going to build wooden platform to elevate the bike. Does anyone have any recommended dimensions? I have a full sheet of 3/4" plywood and 4x6 and 2x6 for the legs/structure. so could do 4'x8' platform but was thinking maybe a bit narrower would make it easier to access the bike while seated on rolling shop stool. As narrow as 24"? And maybe 18-24" elevation, with ramp of some kind? Has anyone built such a platform?
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Tom on October 06, 2021, 03:19:02 PM
Hopefully you have the wood and the space.  If you have to buy the wood....might cheaper to buy a bike lift. 
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: LesP on October 06, 2021, 03:33:44 PM
I built three of these as compact as possible.
Tops from 30mm ply 2000mm x 600mm x 630mm tall overall.
70 x 70 legs.
90 x 35 for the rest.

(https://photos.imageevent.com/time_warp1959/motorcycle/sunbeams7deluxe/IMG_2946.JPG)

Compact but still plenty of room for clutter.

(https://photos.imageevent.com/time_warp1959/motorcycle/mgmods/mm.jpg)
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on October 07, 2021, 02:06:41 PM
Thanks for the tips! I ordered a shop stool, so might wait for that to come to determine final height, but I am tall with more upper body length so may need to go a little higher.
Yes , a few of them , unfortunately all given away so I need to build a new one . Normally tried to build it just a little wider than the widest section of the bike . Height is determined by where you are comfortable working while sitting . Don't go too high , getting a bike up the ramp gets awkward . Build a couple of pull out sections in the middle , makes it easy to get underneath the bike on a creeper . The side rails should be 2x6 eliminating the need for center legs .

 Dusty
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on October 07, 2021, 02:08:21 PM
Wow, no kidding, I already have some 4x6 for the legs, but I was shocked what the plywood and a few 2x4s cost me. How can anyone build anything??!

Hopefully you have the wood and the space.  If you have to buy the wood....might cheaper to buy a bike lift.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on October 07, 2021, 02:13:19 PM
Cool, that's pretty much what I had in mind. I'll probably steal your design ;-) But I think I might add wheels as I have some heavy duty, locking castors already.
Do you use a ramp to get the bike up that high? Do it by yourself?

Also it looks like you have a bike lift also, I guess so you can get the wheels off?

I built three of these as compact as possible.
Tops from 30mm ply 2000mm x 600mm x 630mm tall overall.
70 x 70 legs.
90 x 35 for the rest.

(https://photos.imageevent.com/time_warp1959/motorcycle/sunbeams7deluxe/IMG_2946.JPG)

Compact but still plenty of room for clutter.

(https://photos.imageevent.com/time_warp1959/motorcycle/mgmods/mm.jpg)
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: LesP on October 07, 2021, 03:14:14 PM
Cool, that's pretty much what I had in mind. I'll probably steal your design ;-) But I think I might add wheels as I have some heavy duty, locking castors already.
Do you use a ramp to get the bike up that high? Do it by yourself?

Also it looks like you have a bike lift also, I guess so you can get the wheels off?

I just use the engine crane as they are for building bikes so in theory bits get added until there is something to lift off.
Maintenance jobs on the hydraulic lift.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on October 14, 2021, 06:45:52 PM
Hey guys, I got my work table built and ready to put bike up on it, but thought I should try the centerstand while on the cement, and I can't do it!? I can do my /6 just fine, but something seems off about this one. No tab on left side and place I'm supposed to put weight on my foot - furthest rear of curving leg of stand - it's very hard to reach, seems to close to the mufflers?? I made a little video, if anyone can help I'd appreciate it. I wonder if this stand is missing something or ??
Also, am I missing a handle to pull the bike back with?
Thanks!
https://photos.app.goo.gl/WWoRzsx1GgxQdtHi9
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: LesP on October 14, 2021, 06:52:08 PM
Left side, foot on the end of the curved arm, right hand under the frame loop.
That piece you had your foot on offers no leverage and is to lay the bike on its side I found, my Eldorado has them both sides (and stock length shocks if it matters)

I'm not sure why but some bikes are easier to put on the main stand with the handlebars turned to the left.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Joshua on October 14, 2021, 08:55:31 PM
Welcome to the forum Demet!

 Local Portland loop frame owner myself. Congrats on the new lady! The center stand is a bit tricky to start out but becomes a routine once your comfortable with it. Watched your video, yes you need your foot on the tip of the curved end, the tab on the side is merely to get it down from under the exhaust. If that spring did not return the stand back up to the bike it would drop down while riding over bumps. I find it helps once my foot is in position on the tip of the curved end holding it to the ground to lift up and back towards the rear of the bike while pushing down on the stand with my foot, if i get enough momentum it takes minimal pressure on the stand to get her into place.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Tom H on October 14, 2021, 09:41:35 PM
Left hand on handle bar. Right hand under seat, grab handle, rear crash bar. Left toe on the tab and heel on the ground and press down. Now carefully put the ball of right foot on the curved up end of the stand to hold it down. Move left foot to a comfortable and stable position. To lift, simultaneously press down on the stand with your right foot and lift with your right hand while pulling the bike backwards a tad.

Pops right up!! :thumb: :evil:

Tom
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on October 14, 2021, 09:58:53 PM
Videos: https://youtu.be/Qe9HwzQ2MFc and https://youtu.be/B5-iwoesVZ4
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on October 14, 2021, 10:36:15 PM
Thanks guys, but a couple problems. One just weird and annoying, the tab is on the right hand side of the bike. But OK can try it on that side. But bigger problem is stand won't stay down, when I press the tab it will go down but then snaps back up. And even if it would stay down so I could move my foot to the rear it still seems like there is not enough space to get in there, especially if muffler is hot!  :sad:

My BMW /6 center stand works as y'all describe and I can work it fine.

Nice to virtually meet you Joshua! My workspace is in Sellwood, so hopefully we can meet up sometime  :thumb:
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Mayor_of_BBQ on October 15, 2021, 07:13:06 AM
you cant lever the bike up by stepping on any tab or lever.

Put the stand down with your foot, then put you toe on the stand in the curve, just to hold it down. You toe is only acting as a 'doorstop' to wedge the stand down and hold it down.

With one hand on the handlebar, grab the rear area of the bike by whatever you can... I use the pillion grab handle, you could use rear crash bar, pannier rack, upper frame rail, under edge of the seat, or whatever.

Pull the bike backward with the bar hand while pulling back and up with your other hand, keep your toe on the stand to hold it down and stop it retracting... it will 'roll' back and up on the stand.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on October 15, 2021, 08:33:44 AM
Thanks guys, but a couple problems. One just weird and annoying, the tab is on the right hand side of the bike. But OK can try it on that side. But bigger problem is stand won't stay down, when I press the tab it will go down but then snaps back up. And even if it would stay down so I could move my foot to the rear it still seems like there is not enough space to get in there, especially if muffler is hot!  :sad:

My BMW /6 center stand works as y'all describe and I can work it fine.

Nice to virtually meet you Joshua! My workspace is in Sellwood, so hopefully we can meet up sometime  :thumb:

Couple of things are going on then: 1) someone has removed the left tab, should have one on both sides, 2) shocks are shorter than stock and/or a low profile tire.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on October 15, 2021, 02:05:31 PM
OK thanks, I will look into these issues. Is it weird though that the stand will not stay down? Is there some sort of detent or something that should keep it down?

Couple of things are going on then: 1) someone has removed the left tab, should have one on both sides, 2) shocks are shorter than stock and/or a low profile tire.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on October 15, 2021, 04:17:08 PM
OK thanks, I will look into these issues. Is it weird though that the stand will not stay down? Is there some sort of detent or something that should keep it down?

No detent. It just relies on friction and spring tension.

I currently have a customer's '70 Ambo here that has the same problem with the stand staying down, but at least it still has the left side tang. I can put my heel on the tang and push the stand down, then swing my toe around onto the tip of the stand to hold it down.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Tom on October 15, 2021, 04:19:52 PM
It's more pulling the bike on to the stand than lifting the bike on to it. 
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on October 15, 2021, 04:41:58 PM
Ok I think I figured it out, found the broken tab in the spare parts ;-) And tires are pretty very low, when I put rear on 2x block, stand will stay down and I can pull it back/onto stand just fine. Easier then my BMW in fact ;-)
Thanks for all the tips! I have a steep learning curve in front of me, gotta not look up at it lol.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Tom on October 15, 2021, 04:56:47 PM
 :thumb: 
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on October 21, 2021, 07:21:54 PM
Big thanks to @Joshua for swinging by, showing me his beautiful bike (which I believe many of you are familiar with!) and helping me get my bike up on the work table. Have my little nook ready for some winter tinkering!

(https://i.ibb.co/w7kcDtS/IMG-20211016-183102.jpg) (https://ibb.co/w7kcDtS)

(https://i.ibb.co/CnCc6yJ/IMG-20211021-165453.jpg) (https://ibb.co/CnCc6yJ)


Thanks for the tips on rotating the carbs to get the dishes off, worked a treat, and here is what I have. Can I just clean them up with some WD-40? I plan to rebuild them soon, but for now just want to get the bike running, and address the most pressing issues first.

(https://i.ibb.co/LntdkPx/IMG-20211021-164214.jpg) (https://ibb.co/LntdkPx)

(https://i.ibb.co/ry9N4Ym/IMG-20211021-164803-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ry9N4Ym)

image uploader (https://imgbb.com/)


Here is picture of one of the fuel filters, looks unused. I need to dig deeper into this 'dual-banjo' recommendation I think. Or maybe just get it hooked back up to the tank first and get it running ;-)

(https://i.ibb.co/zhJ8m6Q/IMG-20211021-165319.jpg) (https://ibb.co/zhJ8m6Q)
 
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Tom on October 21, 2021, 07:48:32 PM
I could be wrong on this but I don't think WD 40 can dissolve the dead dried gas.  It can flush out the particles but you'll need a strong solvent.  I like what you made as your work area.   :thumb:
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on October 21, 2021, 08:16:12 PM
Big thanks to @Joshua for swinging by, showing me his beautiful bike (which I believe many of you are familiar with!) and helping me get my bike up on the work table. Have my little nook ready for some winter tinkering!

(https://i.ibb.co/w7kcDtS/IMG-20211016-183102.jpg) (https://ibb.co/w7kcDtS)

(https://i.ibb.co/CnCc6yJ/IMG-20211021-165453.jpg) (https://ibb.co/CnCc6yJ)


Thanks for the tips on rotating the carbs to get the dishes off, worked a treat, and here is what I have. Can I just clean them up with some WD-40? I plan to rebuild them soon, but for now just want to get the bike running, and address the most pressing issues first.

(https://i.ibb.co/LntdkPx/IMG-20211021-164214.jpg) (https://ibb.co/LntdkPx)

(https://i.ibb.co/ry9N4Ym/IMG-20211021-164803-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ry9N4Ym)

image uploader (https://imgbb.com/)


Here is picture of one of the fuel filters, looks unused. I need to dig deeper into this 'dual-banjo' recommendation I think. Or maybe just get it hooked back up to the tank first and get it running ;-)

(https://i.ibb.co/zhJ8m6Q/IMG-20211021-165319.jpg) (https://ibb.co/zhJ8m6Q)


"Sophia", the Ambo I rebuilt back over the Winter of '04/'05.  :thumb:

Sometimes when carbs aren't too bad, I clean them with a squirt bottle of Super Clean. It's very effective in removing light "varnish" and the squirt bottle will spray through all of the carb passages. That filter has a nice deposit of crud in it, but according to the manufacturer can be "backflushed" to remove it. I usually just replace them.

Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on October 21, 2021, 08:39:08 PM
"Sophia", the Ambo I rebuilt back over the Winter of '04/'05.  :thumb:

Sometimes when carbs aren't too bad, I clean them with a squirt bottle of Super Clean. It's very effective in removing light "varnish" and the squirt bottle will spray through all of the carb passages. That filter has a nice deposit of crud in it, but according to the manufacturer can be "backflushed" to remove it. I usually just replace them.

Stunning bike good sir, I couldn't stop staring at it ;-) I'll pick up some Super Clean, but can I clean the threads and such where there is light rust, with WD40?

I'm ordering the dual banjos and carb kits. Trying to figure out the petcocks, can I use these that were original to the bike, or is there a big advantage to the 'upgraded'/later ones?
https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=227
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on October 21, 2021, 10:07:13 PM
Stunning bike good sir, I couldn't stop staring at it ;-) I'll pick up some Super Clean, but can I clean the threads and such where there is light rust, with WD40?

I'm ordering the dual banjos and carb kits. Trying to figure out the petcocks, can I use these that were original to the bike, or is there a big advantage to the 'upgraded'/later ones?
https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=227

I also use Berkebile 2+2 Gum Cutter a lot. WD40 really won't do much of anything in my experience. I use my Dremel with a variety of stainless brushes (wheel, cup, end bristle) to clean some of the threaded areas of the carbs. Don't know if you've seen this, but it might help: https://www.thisoldtractor.com/moto_guzzi_loopframe_carburetor_rebuild_-__vhb.html

Pine Sol works really well for cleaning carbs too:
https://www.thisoldtractor.com/moto_guzzi_loopframe_carburetor_cleaning_with_pine-sol.html

I'd recommend replacing the float needles, filter screens and choke valves as well. I wouldn't replace the floats though.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: John Ulrich on October 21, 2021, 10:36:44 PM
Berryman B12 is my solvent of choice.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Tom H on October 21, 2021, 11:13:23 PM
This is another dip style carb cleaner. It can be found at many auto parts stores:

https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/c/chem-dip/berryman-chem-dip-96-ounce-cleaner/bry3/0996?q=carb+dip&pos=0

For the petcocks. I have a set that you linked to. The ones I have work just fine after about 10-15 years. The new ones, with the warnings listed, maybe don't work as well. You could also go with the newer style with the adapters from MG Cycle. I have a set of those as well. Downside is that they sit very close to the carb tops. Maybe Charlie knows who is making a replacement rubber gasket for the petcocks that supposedly fit the originals, this is another option.

Good luck!!
Tom
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Mayor_of_BBQ on October 22, 2021, 05:22:33 AM
pinesol soaking works well, but don't leave any rubber bits, floats, or slides soaking in there too long. I once soaked carb parts in pinesol for 3-4 days (got distracted) and it pitted the hell out of my slides, had to replace them.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on October 22, 2021, 08:53:43 AM
Trying to figure out the petcocks, can I use these that were original to the bike, or is there a big advantage to the 'upgraded'/later ones?
https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=227

The petcocks you have are the "upgraded/later ones" with adapters. If they're not usable, I'll send you a pair off of a Mille GT tank that are.

pinesol soaking works well, but don't leave any rubber bits, floats, or slides soaking in there too long. I once soaked carb parts in pinesol for 3-4 days (got distracted) and it pitted the hell out of my slides, had to replace them.

Before soaking in Pine-Sol, any rubber bits should be removed anyway. The floats will do just that, so I clean those and the slides with Super Clean and an old toothbrush.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Scout63 on October 22, 2021, 11:30:36 AM
Big thanks to @Joshua for swinging by, showing me his beautiful bike (which I believe many of you are familiar with!) and helping me get my bike up on the work table. Have my little nook ready for some winter tinkering!

(https://i.ibb.co/w7kcDtS/IMG-20211016-183102.jpg) (https://ibb.co/w7kcDtS)

(https://i.ibb.co/CnCc6yJ/IMG-20211021-165453.jpg) (https://ibb.co/CnCc6yJ)


Thanks for the tips on rotating the carbs to get the dishes off, worked a treat, and here is what I have. Can I just clean them up with some WD-40? I plan to rebuild them soon, but for now just want to get the bike running, and address the most pressing issues first.

(https://i.ibb.co/LntdkPx/IMG-20211021-164214.jpg) (https://ibb.co/LntdkPx)

(https://i.ibb.co/ry9N4Ym/IMG-20211021-164803-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ry9N4Ym)

image uploader (https://imgbb.com/)


Here is picture of one of the fuel filters, looks unused. I need to dig deeper into this 'dual-banjo' recommendation I think. Or maybe just get it hooked back up to the tank first and get it running ;-)

(https://i.ibb.co/zhJ8m6Q/IMG-20211021-165319.jpg) (https://ibb.co/zhJ8m6Q)


Be wary of that type of in line fuel filter Demet.  If you get cheap ones they can snap off where the barb meets the wide end, leaving you with fuel flowing everywhere but into the carb.  I prefer a clean tank with good filters at the petcock and carb banjo, and fresh fuel line in between.  There are some nice in line filters, but for me they mean four additional junctions to leak, need clamping or complicate repairs. Ben
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on October 22, 2021, 12:15:21 PM
Be wary of that type of in line fuel filter Demet.  If you get cheap ones they can snap off where the barb meets the wide end, leaving you with fuel flowing everywhere but into the carb.  I prefer a clean tank with good filters at the petcock and carb banjo, and fresh fuel line in between.  There are some nice in line filters, but for me they mean four additional junctions to leak, need clamping or complicate repairs. Ben

Agreed. I only use "Visu-Filter" and K&N brands of those filters. But really, the in-tank strainer and filter screens in the carbs are enough unless one is running "sediment supreme" gasoline.  :wink:
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on October 22, 2021, 10:59:16 PM
Thanks, I have ordered the carb rebuild kit and have been studying that thread on This Old Tractor. Kind of scary to be honest, but I like the idea of knowing the carbs inside out and that they are clean and good to go ;-) Also bought some PineSol today, and some carb cleaner.

I also use Berkebile 2+2 Gum Cutter a lot. WD40 really won't do much of anything in my experience. I use my Dremel with a variety of stainless brushes (wheel, cup, end bristle) to clean some of the threaded areas of the carbs. Don't know if you've seen this, but it might help: https://www.thisoldtractor.com/moto_guzzi_loopframe_carburetor_rebuild_-__vhb.html

Pine Sol works really well for cleaning carbs too:
https://www.thisoldtractor.com/moto_guzzi_loopframe_carburetor_cleaning_with_pine-sol.html

I'd recommend replacing the float needles, filter screens and choke valves as well. I wouldn't replace the floats though.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on October 22, 2021, 11:07:46 PM
Thanks guys, I will ditch the in-line fuel filters, the 'more potential points of failure' argument works for me. And I think I'm going to go with the old style petcocks:
https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=227:705f217283466678860 7efbfca35afb3

These will come with the tank filter? And then I need these filters for the carb?
https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1290

And do I need this kit to get petcocks properly aligned?
https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=5393:1b9e43c170cd3fc5962 4a18663b8d4d2
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on October 23, 2021, 05:04:19 PM
Thanks guys, I will ditch the in-line fuel filters, the 'more potential points of failure' argument works for me. And I think I'm going to go with the old style petcocks:
https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=227:705f217283466678860 7efbfca35afb3

These will come with the tank filter? And then I need these filters for the carb?
https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1290

And do I need this kit to get petcocks properly aligned?
https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=5393:1b9e43c170cd3fc5962 4a18663b8d4d2

I would stick with the petcocks you have at present or another pair of the newer type. The reproduction "sugar cubes" you link to have issues - the seal sometimes turns with the lever and either doesn't turn the flow off or doesn't open it up. The newer types work great, the repros... not so much. The newer type also doesn't need any "alignment shims".

You should replace the round filter screens in the carbs. When they get old, brown and hard, you may need more torque on the M6 banjo bolt to get it to seal. New ones are softer, so less torque needed.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on October 23, 2021, 10:25:50 PM
Dang, wish I had not missed this message, before I ordered the older 'sugar cube' petcocks. Well, I can still use the ones I have that are newer style, and I need the stand pipes anyway....

I would stick with the petcocks you have at present or another pair of the newer type. The reproduction "sugar cubes" you link to have issues - the seal sometimes turns with the lever and either doesn't turn the flow off or doesn't open it up. The newer types work great, the repros... not so much. The newer type also doesn't need any "alignment shims".

You should replace the round filter screens in the carbs. When they get old, brown and hard, you may need more torque on the M6 banjo bolt to get it to seal. New ones are softer, so less torque needed.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on October 23, 2021, 10:32:17 PM
I ordered the carb kits, and got the left side carb off. Damn I'm scared, I know how easy it can be to take something apart versus putting it back together LOL.

(https://i.ibb.co/4syt7Nz/IMG-20211023-183328.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4syt7Nz)


Will soak the left side carb in Pine Sol, following protocol on This Old Tractor. Then when carb kits show up will put left side back together before taking right side off.

Taking off carb I found this rubber bit that apparently funnels air from air filter, is cracked. Can anyone tell me what it is called, part number and/or where I can find one?

(https://i.ibb.co/xFVJhb1/IMG-20211023-175529.jpg) (https://ibb.co/xFVJhb1)

(https://i.ibb.co/bFxJR5k/IMG-20211023-175629.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bFxJR5k)


Ultimately glad I have decided to rebuild carbs, as much as it scares me. Noticed some of the rubber bits seem pretty worn. Gasket on float dish fell apart, etc.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Mayor_of_BBQ on October 24, 2021, 07:44:10 AM
the carbs are easy. follow Greg's advice on doing one as a time and follow his steps/pics from this old tractor, it's not hard at all.

I would return those sugar cubes as soon as you get them or try to call and cancel them off your order. As several people pointed out, the repro ones suck unless you rebuild them from new with the seal kits referenced above.

The airbox/rubber manifold is junk IMHO. Read up on that at This old Tractor also, Most people end up with pods. I am running the Mike Tiberieo/ UNI filter option shown there, no issues and runs great.  If you do keep the airbox, you can get repro rubber boot/manifold/whatever it's called. There are also instructions on this old tractor for how to set it up.


Maybe the short answer is just read everything at this old tractor and thank your stars for Greg Bender!
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on October 24, 2021, 09:11:27 AM
Taking off carb I found this rubber bit that apparently funnels air from air filter, is cracked. Can anyone tell me what it is called, part number and/or where I can find one?

(https://i.ibb.co/xFVJhb1/IMG-20211023-175529.jpg) (https://ibb.co/xFVJhb1)

(https://i.ibb.co/bFxJR5k/IMG-20211023-175629.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bFxJR5k)


"Air box boot" or "sleeve, carb". Available from MG Cycle:
https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=279&products_id=230
and Harper's:
https://www.harpermoto.com/sleeve-carb-12114301.html

If the cover plate of the air filter box is deformed, fitting the boot can be a pain. I simply straighten the cover plate best I can and "glue" the boot into place with Permatex Ultra Black RTV. The boot only fits one way, take your time to get it to fit right before installing the airbox.
https://www.thisoldtractor.com/moto_guzzi_loopframe_air_box.html

If you're not prepared to do a  little work to make it fit, then just use pod filters.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Tom on October 24, 2021, 01:42:12 PM
Unless you're willing to do a complete oem restoration to your bike, the oem airbag with boot is hard to work.  On 3 Eldo's and an Ambo, I went with K&N's and Uni's.  Not the best option but better than stock.  The side covers hide the "upgrade" and save additional frustration in time wasted.  I still have the oem stuff on a shelf in the garage.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on October 24, 2021, 03:03:11 PM
OK thanks, I have just read a ton about petcocks, and have sent an email hoping to cancel those 'sugarcube' ones I ordered. I will either buy the updated/newer set from MGCYCLE or try to use the ones I have.

But one thing is still unclear to me, the standpipes/filter screens. On the updated ones from MGCYCLE they say:
"Note: you must remove the filter screens from the new petcocks prior to use.  Ensure that the plastic tube that creates the reserve function is fully seated and secured in the correct hole. In order to ensure that you have adequate fuel filtering, you might inspect the fuel inlet screens (43934000) where your fuel lines attach to your carburetors, and refresh them if necessary."

Why are they included if you can't use them? So only fuel filter is the screen at the carb inlet? Might need the in-line filters then?

I did find the John Chicoine stainless standpipes (EDIT: filter screens, not standpipes - I guess you still use the plastic tube inside as the standpipe?) on This Old Tractor, which will supposedly work, but why will these work and not the ones that come with the updated petcocks? I could maybe order a set of these, and try them on the petcocks I have (and maybe order a set of those gaskets from the guy referenced as well). If they don't work and/or can't be repaired I could then order the set from MGCCYLE. The ~$130 for a set is giving me pause haha.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on October 24, 2021, 03:09:31 PM
I did find an air cleaner boot on ebay, but will look into the pod option. I remember seeing that on some bikes. Will inspect my air cleaner box and see if it is flat.

And I promise to read up more on This Old Tractor before asking questions here! That site is amazing I have to say!
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on October 24, 2021, 03:57:25 PM
OK thanks, I have just read a ton about petcocks, and have sent an email hoping to cancel those 'sugarcube' ones I ordered. I will either buy the updated/newer set from MGCYCLE or try to use the ones I have.

But one thing is still unclear to me, the standpipes/filter screens. On the updated ones from MGCYCLE they say:
"Note: you must remove the filter screens from the new petcocks prior to use.  Ensure that the plastic tube that creates the reserve function is fully seated and secured in the correct hole. In order to ensure that you have adequate fuel filtering, you might inspect the fuel inlet screens (43934000) where your fuel lines attach to your carburetors, and refresh them if necessary."

Why are they included if you can't use them? So only fuel filter is the screen at the carb inlet? Might need the in-line filters then?

I did find the John Chicoine stainless standpipes (EDIT: filter screens, not standpipes - I guess you still use the plastic tube inside as the standpipe?) on This Old Tractor, which will supposedly work, but why will these work and not the ones that come with the updated petcocks? I could maybe order a set of these, and try them on the petcocks I have (and maybe order a set of those gaskets from the guy referenced as well). If they don't work and/or can't be repaired I could then order the set from MGCCYLE. The ~$130 for a set is giving me pause haha.

The screens are included because they come with the petcocks, you don't use those as they will not fit into the adapters. You do use the standpipe/plastic tube if you want to have any reserve. Where do you see $130 for a set? I see $65.12 for two adapters, two petcocks and four sealing washers. That's all you need for one bike.

Since you already have the adapters you do not need the whole kit! You could buy just the petcocks and reuse the adapters.
https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=379&products_id=1319
https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1320

I have installed a half dozen of the "petcock update kits". I always drill the hole in the adapters slightly larger - the plastic tube can be kinked otherwise. The plastic tube is retained. Since you can't use the strainer screens, a pair of inline filters isn't a bad idea, especially if your tank isn't exactly spotless inside.

 

Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on October 24, 2021, 09:19:23 PM
Ah OK, I see now it's a kit, whereas the sugarcube listing is for a single petcock. OK I will order the ones you linked to without the adaptor. Thanks! My tank was relined 10 years ago, but never saw any gas and looks pristine inside. I'd rather not do the in-line filters, think I'll be OK with just the carb screens, which will be new? Or I could add the stainless screens for the updated petcock?

The screens are included because they come with the petcocks, you don't use those as they will not fit into the adapters. You do use the standpipe/plastic tube if you want to have any reserve. Where do you see $130 for a set? I see $65.12 for two adapters, two petcocks and four sealing washers. That's all you need for one bike.

Since you already have the adapters you do not need the whole kit! You could buy just the petcocks and reuse the adapters.
https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=379&products_id=1319
https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1320

I have installed a half dozen of the "petcock update kits". I always drill the hole in the adapters slightly larger - the plastic tube can be kinked otherwise. The plastic tube is retained. Since you can't use the strainer screens, a pair of inline filters isn't a bad idea, especially if your tank isn't exactly spotless inside.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Tom H on October 24, 2021, 09:49:23 PM
If you use the Uni Filter pods and want to keep the stock look of having the air filter box. The Uni filters will stuff inside the air box without the front air box cover.

Tom
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on October 25, 2021, 06:30:24 PM
Can anyone give me any tips on getting this plastic sleeve out of the carburator body? Or can I leave it's in during Pine Sol soak?
I hit it with wd40 but can't see how to move it.


(https://i.ibb.co/0QZkdDq/IMG-20211025-162607.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0QZkdDq)
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on October 25, 2021, 08:16:00 PM
Can anyone give me any tips on getting this plastic sleeve out of the carburator body? Or can I leave it's in during Pine Sol soak?
I hit it with wd40 but can't see how to move it.


(https://i.ibb.co/0QZkdDq/IMG-20211025-162607.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0QZkdDq)


Leave it in.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on October 27, 2021, 09:57:26 PM
Looking at the 'pod' alternatives to the stock air filter box. Doesn't seem that straight forward tbh. My airbox seems fairly straight/unmolested. I'm inclined to go with Charlie's technique of gluing rubber boot to the airbox, as described on This Old Tractor.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Kiwi_Roy on October 28, 2021, 01:04:55 AM
---------------------------
I did find the John Chicoine stainless standpipes (EDIT: filter screens, not standpipes - I guess you still use the plastic tube inside as the standpipe?) on This Old Tractor, which will supposedly work, but why will these work and not the ones that come with the updated petcocks? I could maybe order a set of these, and try them on the petcocks I have (and maybe order a set of those gaskets from the guy referenced as well). If they don't work and/or can't be repaired I could then order the set from MGCCYLE. The ~$130 for a set is giving me pause haha.
I rebuilt my sugar cubes over 5 years ago using John's kits, they are still leakproof.
He also supplied new screens.
His kit has washers in a range of thicknesses which all owe you to get them tight in the correct orientation.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on October 31, 2021, 09:16:12 PM
One carb done and back on bike! Went fairly smoothly I guess, but I'll be surprised if it works lol. Second carb now soaking in Pine Sol.

Both of my carbs were missing the jam nut on the choke, as you can se in the picture where my finger is. Do I need it? What does it do? Anyone know what size nut it is? Couldn't find anything at my local Ace, and they laughed when I told them what it was for ;-) Seems like 6mm, and pitch less then 1.0...?

(https://i.ibb.co/KN9Bs1t/IMG-20211030-170713.jpg) (https://ibb.co/KN9Bs1t)
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on October 31, 2021, 10:06:44 PM
One carb done and back on bike! Went fairly smoothly I guess, but I'll be surprised if it works lol. Second carb now soaking in Pine Sol.

Both of my carbs were missing the jam nut on the choke, as you can se in the picture where my finger is. Do I need it? What does it do? Anyone know what size nut it is? Couldn't find anything at my local Ace, and they laughed when I told them what it was for ;-) Seems like 6mm, and pitch less then 1.0...?

(https://i.ibb.co/KN9Bs1t/IMG-20211030-170713.jpg) (https://ibb.co/KN9Bs1t)


It keeps the adjuster from threading in or out. IIRC, it's M6 x .75 thread.
https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=62&products_id=1291
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on October 31, 2021, 10:47:17 PM
OK thank you! I will try my local guru hardware store tomorrow, or will order these.

It keeps the adjuster from threading in or out. IIRC, it's M6 x .75 thread.
https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=62&products_id=1291
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on November 02, 2021, 12:52:05 PM
OK both carbs now back on bike! Fingers crossed. Waiting for air box boot and battery I ordered. Will work on petcocks today, and research fuel lines. And just ordered generator cover and two lock nuts for throttle/choke - I bought a couple from my hardware store but they are too big and rubber boot won't fit ha!

I want to install bar end signals, and was looking at these, which are actual Hella, include LED bulbs and relay:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/203652717629?hash=item2f6aa5dc3d:g:JT8AAOSwuMZZKLKN

Anyone with experience, have any input? Charlie I believe you installed replicas on Sophia? Replicas are a lot less expensive, but if they are cheaply made I'd rather go for the long haul quality.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on November 02, 2021, 01:39:16 PM
OK both carbs now back on bike! Fingers crossed. Waiting for air box boot and battery I ordered. Will work on petcocks today, and research fuel lines. And just ordered generator cover and two lock nuts for throttle/choke - I bought a couple from my hardware store but they are too big and rubber boot won't fit ha!

I want to install bar end signals, and was looking at these, which are actual Hella, include LED bulbs and relay:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/203652717629?hash=item2f6aa5dc3d:g:JT8AAOSwuMZZKLKN

Anyone with experience, have any input? Charlie I believe you installed replicas on Sophia? Replicas are a lot less expensive, but if they are cheaply made I'd rather go for the long haul quality.

I've installed both genuine Hella and Emgo repros. Years ago the Emgos weren't nearly as good, but now they are nearly the same quality as the originals, parts will even interchange.

The biggest difference between the two is the Hellas are polished alloy and the Emgos are chrome-plated. it's not just "flash chrome" either - there's copper, nickel and then chrome. This can make them a bit hard to install - the plating is thick so I've found it necessary to remove it from the part that goes into the 'bars. Depending on the 'bars, it may be necessary to ream or drill the inner diameter larger as well.

The Hellas have a locating nub which fits into a notch in the 'bars on BMW /2s, so you'd either need to remove the nub or make a notch for it to fit into. I've found it necessary to open up the i.d. of the 'bars with these as well. Hopefully the LED bulbs supplied with the Hellas are amber to match the lens, if they're not a "normal" incandescent festoon bulb will be brighter. Note that the Hellas are for 6 volts - you'll need different bulbs and flasher.

Emgo replicas: https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=37_156&products_id=3001
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on November 02, 2021, 01:49:08 PM
OK cool, thanks again, I will try the replicas. Also considering switches, maybe doing a modern upgraded 'all-in'one' switch. And I would like the flashing brake light and maybe modulating front headlight? Not sure, and need to finish fuel projects and get the bike running first I guess.

I've installed both genuine Hella and Emgo repros. Years ago the Emgos weren't nearly as good, but now they are nearly the same quality as the originals, parts will even interchange.

The biggest difference between the two is the Hellas are polished alloy and the Emgos are chrome-plated. it's not just "flash chrome" either - there's copper, nickel and then chrome. This can make them a bit hard to install - the plating is thick so I've found it necessary to remove it from the part that goes into the 'bars. Depending on the 'bars, it may be necessary to ream or drill the inner diameter larger as well.

The Hellas have a locating nub which fits into a notch in the 'bars on BMW /2s, so you'd either need to remove the nub or make a notch for it to fit into. I've found it necessary to open up the i.d. of the 'bars with these as well. Hopefully the LED bulbs supplied with the Hellas are amber to match the lens, if they're not a "normal" incandescent festoon bulb will be brighter. Note that the Hellas are for 6 volts - you'll need different bulbs and flasher.

Emgo replicas: https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=37_156&products_id=3001
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on November 02, 2021, 02:07:00 PM
OK cool, thanks again, I will try the replicas. Also considering switches, maybe doing a modern upgraded 'all-in'one' switch. And I would like the flashing brake light and maybe modulating front headlight? Not sure, and need to finish fuel projects and get the bike running first I guess.

I prefer something a bit more period looking on my Loops.
https://z1parts.net/switch-handlebar-kawasaki-h2-h1-s1-s2-left-side/
Here's how to wire it up:
https://www.thisoldtractor.com/moto_guzzi_loopframe_handlebar_switch_-_kawasaki_46091-005_-asahi-denso-.html

Not a fan of either flashing brake lights or modulating headlights. I am a fan of LED brake light bulbs and an LED headlight or bulb.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on November 02, 2021, 10:47:04 PM
I could go for that one. What do you think of this one?
https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=37_140&products_id=3010

The thing about the flashing brake light/modulating headlight is that I NOTICE THEM when I'm driving a car. And I want to be noticed by car drivers when I'm riding the bike! Can you share your reasons for not being a fan?

I prefer something a bit more period looking on my Loops.
https://z1parts.net/switch-handlebar-kawasaki-h2-h1-s1-s2-left-side/
Here's how to wire it up:
https://www.thisoldtractor.com/moto_guzzi_loopframe_handlebar_switch_-_kawasaki_46091-005_-asahi-denso-.html

Not a fan of either flashing brake lights or modulating headlights. I am a fan of LED brake light bulbs and an LED headlight or bulb.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on November 02, 2021, 10:48:48 PM
Should I replace this air filter? It looks OK to me, but what do I know lol!
(https://i.ibb.co/KyzGcRP/IMG-20211102-164906.jpg) (https://ibb.co/KyzGcRP)

(https://i.ibb.co/qDNrffM/IMG-20211102-164941.jpg) (https://ibb.co/qDNrffM)
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Tom H on November 02, 2021, 10:51:17 PM
Your filter is a K & N reusable. Do a search for how to clean and oil the filter.

Tom
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: geoff in almonte on November 03, 2021, 07:10:50 AM
I could go for that one. What do you think of this one?
https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=37_140&products_id=3010

The thing about the flashing brake light/modulating headlight is that I NOTICE THEM when I'm driving a car. And I want to be noticed by car drivers when I'm riding the bike! Can you share your reasons for not being a fan?

In some places they are illegal.

G
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on November 03, 2021, 10:17:19 AM
I could go for that one. What do you think of this one?
https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=37_140&products_id=3010

The thing about the flashing brake light/modulating headlight is that I NOTICE THEM when I'm driving a car. And I want to be noticed by car drivers when I'm riding the bike! Can you share your reasons for not being a fan?

No way of turning the headlight off, so I've never used it. I find flashing or modulating to be distracting, bright and on solid is my preference.

As Tom H wrote, that's a K&N "lifetime" filter, just clean it if necessary and re-oil.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on November 03, 2021, 06:26:01 PM
Thanks guys I don't know where I'd be without y'alls help. And I'm enjoying learning all this stuff. Glad I rebuilt the carbs myself, nothing like the sense of accomplishment you get from doing it yourself. *knocks on head* Of course better wait and see if they work haha.

So I think these petcock adaptors I have (from PO) are in fact just plumbing compression couplers or something. They only thread into the tank 4-5 turns before they start to get tight. Both pieces do it on both sides of the tank. My first instinct was to get out a wrench and force them on, but maybe not a good idea? I suspect they are not metric threads... Also they are not threaded internally. I did come up with a trick way to get the screens that came with petcocks from MGcycle to work with them, but now I'm thinking I will just punt and buy the proper adaptors from MGCycle, and screens from John Chicoine.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on November 03, 2021, 06:28:12 PM
Instead of the flashing lights to get noticed I can always just get really loud pipes, with the added benefit of letting everyone know I have concerns about the size of my pipi  :cheesy:
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: John A on November 04, 2021, 04:51:46 AM
The problem with the flashing lites is target fixation by an impaired driver. They will home into a flashing lite automatically when they are in a trance. Years ago they were wondering why the cop cars being fully lit up kept getting run into by our fellow travelers and that’s what they found. Experiments were conducted to determine flash rates and stuff like intensity and location that were changed to help alleviate the problem but I have not read that study. It’s not much of a problem with enforcement and investigation vehicles  anymore but does still happen.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on November 04, 2021, 10:59:32 PM
But flashing brake lights and modulating headlight seem quite different  than flashing emergency lights. Certainly the brake lights are a short burst, meant to briefly catch attention, but not long enough to fixate on I wouldn't think?? I suppose the headlight is more debatable, but my own experience as a car driver is I become much more aware of the motorcycle that has the modulating headlight. But then again, I'm not sauced while driving ;-)

The problem with the flashing lites is target fixation by an impaired driver. They will home into a flashing lite automatically when they are in a trance. Years ago they were wondering why the cop cars being fully lit up kept getting run into by our fellow travelers and that’s what they found. Experiments were conducted to determine flash rates and stuff like intensity and location that were changed to help alleviate the problem but I have not read that study. It’s not much of a problem with enforcement and investigation vehicles  anymore but does still happen.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on November 04, 2021, 11:03:24 PM
Airbox boot installed, well, it's in place, the 'dry run' as recommended by Charlie. Seems like a nice secure fit. Waiting for the oil for the filter, and the liquid gasket stuff.

(https://i.ibb.co/Q8PyH16/IMG-20211104-175454.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Q8PyH16)


Any tips on installing the generator cover? Seems like I may need to take the front fender off in order to slot it into place?? I already removed the horn, but still not enough clearance to comfortably fit it in...
(https://i.ibb.co/HGf7WKv/IMG-20211104-175915.jpg) (https://ibb.co/HGf7WKv)
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Tom H on November 04, 2021, 11:11:39 PM
Maybe Charlie has a better answer for the cover, but... I would try pulling the front cover/belt cover and see if you can slip it in from the front.

Lights: I would not want a flashing headlight. But, I have seen a tail light that would flash something like 3 times and then go solid. I did notice that quite well. Then again, if I need to make sure my brake gets noticed and I have the time, I'll hit the brake on and off a few times before actually braking, especially on a freeway in a quick slow down situation.

Tom
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on November 05, 2021, 08:42:26 AM
Any tips on installing the generator cover? Seems like I may need to take the front fender off in order to slot it into place?? I already removed the horn, but still not enough clearance to comfortably fit it in...
(https://i.ibb.co/HGf7WKv/IMG-20211104-175915.jpg) (https://ibb.co/HGf7WKv)


The generator cover doesn't go on from the front, it goes on from the side (after the cable splitter is removed) or from the rear (while the carbs and breather box are off). The closed part goes towards the rear.

A tip I learned from Mark Etheridge at Moto Guzzi Classics: Put a 1" wide piece of masking tape down over the closed section and make a cut on either side of it. This makes two halves that are easier to install and also reduces the chance of it cracking around the mounting holes. I use fender washers on the mounting bolts.


(https://i.ibb.co/JyY0Rdx/generator-cover-modification.jpg) (https://ibb.co/JyY0Rdx)
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on November 05, 2021, 01:01:32 PM
The generator cover doesn't go on from the front, it goes on from the side (after the cable splitter is removed) or from the rear (while the carbs and breather box are off). The closed part goes towards the rear.

A tip I learned from Mark Etheridge at Moto Guzzi Classics: Put a 1" wide piece of masking tape down over the closed section and make a cut on either side of it. This makes two halves that are easier to install and also reduces the chance of it cracking around the mounting holes. I use fender washers on the mounting bolts.

Ah interesting, will do this today! So I guess they have a tendency to crack at mounting holes and fender washers help distribute the stress. Very cool. Cheers!
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on November 05, 2021, 01:22:43 PM
Lights: I would not want a flashing headlight. But, I have seen a tail light that would flash something like 3 times and then go solid. I did notice that quite well. Then again, if I need to make sure my brake gets noticed and I have the time, I'll hit the brake on and off a few times before actually braking, especially on a freeway in a quick slow down situation.

Tom

Thanks Tom, yes I sometimes flash my brakes, but only when it occurs to me and only if I have time to notice car coming at speed from behind, so overall not very often. I want it automatic, a few flashes then solid. I'll probably pass on the headlight modulator.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: LesP on November 05, 2021, 03:42:43 PM
Ah interesting, will do this today! So I guess they have a tendency to crack at mounting holes and fender washers help distribute the stress. Very cool. Cheers!

Please do not destroy the generator cover with a bodge like chopping it in half.

The cover might crack if the bolts are cranked up compressing the plastic which is not of uniform thickness is all.

All I did was make sure the mounts for it on the generator bracket were inline then bored the four holes in the plastic cover to 10mm ID, machined collar inserts that fit each hole depth wise and then the washers (brass in my case) seated on the collars, holding the cover but not unduly compressing it.
The cover is now captivated but not restrained with the bolts tight and forgotten about until the generator brushes are checked in 2050.

(https://photos.imageevent.com/time_warp1959/motorcycle/mgmods/in1.jpg)

(https://photos.imageevent.com/time_warp1959/motorcycle/mgmods/cv.jpg)

If you have the small round CEV tail light only, good luck being seen, day or night.


Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on November 05, 2021, 06:20:10 PM
Sorry to suggest such a terrible "bodge"  :rolleyes:. It's not only the clamping force of the bolts that cracks the cover when it's one piece, the covers (new or old) are usually molded a bit "tweaked". I've tried shoulder washers like you show and rubber grommets with spacers and washers. One piece covers still cracked. They don't crack with Mark's/my "bodge". 

An LED bulb does a great job of improving rear lighting.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B074GPX2Q8
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on November 05, 2021, 10:34:26 PM
I bodged it. :wink: As you mentioned, my cover was quite deformed out of the box. Relieving the tension makes sense, and there's really no downside I can see, aside from feeling a bit weird cutting a brand new part in half lol.

Are these bulbs just straight replacements for the existing bulbs, or do I need a relay or something?

 
Sorry to suggest such a terrible "bodge"  :rolleyes:. It's not only the clamping force of the bolts that cracks the cover when it's one piece, the covers (new or old) are usually molded a bit "tweaked". I've tried shoulder washers like you show and rubber grommets with spacers and washers. One piece covers still cracked. They don't crack with Mark's/my "bodge". 

An LED bulb does a great job of improving rear lighting.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B074GPX2Q8
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on November 06, 2021, 09:27:23 AM
I bodged it. :wink: As you mentioned, my cover was quite deformed out of the box. Relieving the tension makes sense, and there's really no downside I can see, aside from feeling a bit weird cutting a brand new part in half lol.

Are these bulbs just straight replacements for the existing bulbs, or do I need a relay or something?

Straight replacement, no electronic trickery necessary.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on November 06, 2021, 06:36:22 PM
Ugh I'm so bad with electrical. Trying to install the battery, installed positive wire first, then negative and as I was tightening it I heard a short, then sizzle and tons of smoke, I had to duck out of my little cubby as it was both scary and noxious. I think what happened is as I was tightening negative I pulled positive terminal in contact with that black box, which I think is 'regulator unit' - so that made a circuit with the ground cable, the whole bike was electrified lol, and then ground cable got really hot, melted it's casing (hence the smoke) and eventually failed, cutting off the circuit. Sound about right?

(https://i.ibb.co/Chwg1Hc/IMG-20211106-155937.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Chwg1Hc)

(https://i.ibb.co/8D17y7X/IMG-20211106-160017.jpg) (https://ibb.co/8D17y7X)


Here's the head of the bolt I had in the positive terminal, which was fused to the black box/regulator unit:

(https://i.ibb.co/D5SZGvJ/IMG-20211106-162138.jpg) (https://ibb.co/D5SZGvJ)


So did I fry any electronics? I'm really lost with electrical, it just won't stick in my mind. I do have a voltage meter though, and can sort of use it. I have the leads off the battery now. Any advice on how to proceed?
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on November 06, 2021, 06:44:21 PM
There are no "electronics" to fry.  :laugh: I doubt you did any damage other than the melted ground cable. With that Odyssey, I'd probably use their "L" brackets to move the terminals to the top and/or switch to cables with M6 lug terminals, instead of automotive post type connections. 
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on November 06, 2021, 09:22:21 PM
There are no "electronics" to fry.  :laugh: I doubt you did any damage other than the melted ground cable. With that Odyssey, I'd probably use their "L" brackets to move the terminals to the top and/or switch to cables with M6 lug terminals, instead of automotive post type connections.

OK thanks, that's a relief, was afraid I had fried something Yeah I think I'm going to change cable ends to the lug terminals. Then I think I can place battery upright without terminals touching anything. I guess now I realize why people go to some lengths to secure the battery. The PO just had some bailing wire holding it I think.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Mayor_of_BBQ on November 06, 2021, 09:28:09 PM
An LED bulb does a great job of improving rear lighting.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B074GPX2Q8

Do these need a resistor Charlie or do they work off a stock setup plug & play?
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on November 06, 2021, 09:29:41 PM
...switch to cables with M6 lug terminals, instead of automotive post type connections.

Can I just buy these, cut my existing wires and crimp these on? Or should I buy all new cables?
https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=37_158&products_id=670
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on November 06, 2021, 10:20:32 PM
Do these need a resistor Charlie or do they work off a stock setup plug & play?

Plug & play, no resistor for the taillight.

If you use these amber LEDs in the turn signals...
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07BXT4WRN
...you'd need to switch to an electronic flasher such as this one.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07MJGC28B

Can I just buy these, cut my existing wires and crimp these on? Or should I buy all new cables?
https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=37_158&products_id=670

Yes, you can crimp or solder those on if the cables are still viable (not melted or have green corrosion).
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: John A on November 07, 2021, 12:27:14 AM
Replace the battery cable. I like to use one long enough to go to either terminal, that way you have more battery options later on.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on November 07, 2021, 03:44:01 PM
OK I'm ordering LED tail lights and turn signal bulbs, and the flasher. Will need to research where the flasher goes. I'm going to try installing the bar end turn signals today, at least get them test fitted. Vintage repo switch you recommended is on order.

Unrelated question: should I put hose clamps on the airfilter boot to velocity stack connection?

Thanks!

Plug & play, no resistor for the taillight.

If you use these amber LEDs in the turn signals...
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07BXT4WRN
...you'd need to switch to an electronic flasher such as this one.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07MJGC28B

Yes, you can crimp or solder those on if the cables are still viable (not melted or have green corrosion).
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on November 07, 2021, 03:46:03 PM
I would like that flexibility as they are quite limited, but for now as they are in good condition and I want to make progress to toward getting bike running I will just clip ends and replace connector, but will be on list to upgrade at some point!

Replace the battery cable. I like to use one long enough to go to either terminal, that way you have more battery options later on.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on November 07, 2021, 05:11:54 PM
OK I'm ordering LED tail lights and turn signal bulbs, and the flasher. Will need to research where the flasher goes. I'm going to try installing the bar end turn signals today, at least get them test fitted. Vintage repo switch you recommended is on order.

Unrelated question: should I put hose clamps on the airfilter boot to velocity stack connection?

Thanks!

If you're installing bar-ends signals, the bulbs I linked to won't fit. They're for original or original type signals that use an 1156 bulb only. Hella/repro signals use festoon type bulbs.

If the boot is old and stretched a bit, it doesn't hurt to put clamps on it at the velocity stacks.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on November 07, 2021, 10:00:39 PM
OK so the festoon are the only option for the bar end signals? Maybe I could get in there and install a socket for the LED?

Also I removed the left hand grip and found this, which is maybe a filled bar? I tried to drill into it, but not much luck with bits I have.

(https://i.ibb.co/txSXtCW/IMG-20211107-182049.jpg) (https://ibb.co/txSXtCW)


My bike did come with an extra handlebar, slightly narrower, if the one on the bike now is not usable for the bar end signals, which I am committed to. I would need to get it re-chromed I guess. Or just buy a new handlebar?

(https://i.ibb.co/qxFpSwg/IMG-20211107-182056.jpg) (https://ibb.co/qxFpSwg)



If you're installing bar-ends signals, the bulbs I linked to won't fit. They're for original or original type signals that use an 1156 bulb only. Hella/repro signals use festoon type bulbs.

If the boot is old and stretched a bit, it doesn't hurt to put clamps on it at the velocity stacks.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on November 07, 2021, 10:05:22 PM
OK so the festoon are the only option for the bar end signals? Maybe I could get in there and install a socket for the LED?

Also I removed the left hand grip and found this, which is maybe a filled bar? I tried to drill into it, but not much luck with bits I have.

(https://i.ibb.co/txSXtCW/IMG-20211107-182049.jpg) (https://ibb.co/txSXtCW)


My bike did come with an extra handlebar, slightly narrower, if the one on the bike now is not usable for the bar end signals, which I am committed to. I would need to get it re-chromed I guess. Or just buy a new handlebar?

(https://i.ibb.co/qxFpSwg/IMG-20211107-182056.jpg) (https://ibb.co/qxFpSwg)


There's not enough room for any other type of bulb and socket. Festoons work well, so there's really nothing to be gained. LED festoons are available as well.

New 'bars are available:
https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=52&products_id=286
https://www.harpermoto.com/12600300-12600100.html
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on November 07, 2021, 11:04:23 PM
There's not enough room for any other type of bulb and socket. Festoons work well, so there's really nothing to be gained. LED festoons are available as well.

New 'bars are available:
https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=52&products_id=286
https://www.harpermoto.com/12600300-12600100.html

Hmmm, the LED festoons are only one sided though correct? Not good for the double sided Hella bar-end turn signals I guess. Will stick with the regular bulb for now I guess.

I'm going to see if these spare handlebars will clean up enough for me, or will buy new. I'm guessing re-chroming is not economical.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Mayor_of_BBQ on November 08, 2021, 06:45:09 AM
OK so the festoon are the only option for the bar end signals? Maybe I could get in there and install a socket for the LED?

Also I removed the left hand grip and found this, which is maybe a filled bar? I tried to drill into it, but not much luck with bits I have.

(https://i.ibb.co/txSXtCW/IMG-20211107-182049.jpg) (https://ibb.co/txSXtCW)


My bike did come with an extra handlebar, slightly narrower, if the one on the bike now is not usable for the bar end signals, which I am committed to. I would need to get it re-chromed I guess. Or just buy a new handlebar?

(https://i.ibb.co/qxFpSwg/IMG-20211107-182056.jpg) (https://ibb.co/qxFpSwg)


I have a brand new civilian-bend bar. It's a repro but in perfect condition, never used. It's the one MG Cycles sells. Shoot a PM if you want it, I'll cut ya a deal.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on November 08, 2021, 08:26:36 AM
Hmmm, the LED festoons are only one sided though correct? Not good for the double sided Hella bar-end turn signals I guess. Will stick with the regular bulb for now I guess.

I'm going to see if these spare handlebars will clean up enough for me, or will buy new. I'm guessing re-chroming is not economical.

The 'bars shown mounted to the bike aren't the originals, the other one looks to be.

 
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on November 08, 2021, 11:21:54 PM
Thank you! I sent you a PM but not sure it went through, hard to know...?

I have a brand new civilian-bend bar. It's a repro but in perfect condition, never used. It's the one MG Cycles sells. Shoot a PM if you want it, I'll cut ya a deal.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on November 09, 2021, 09:08:56 PM
So I ordered the petcock adaptors to work with the small block petcocks, both purchased from MG Cycle. And the adaptors have the same problem, threading into the tank they get hand tight a few millimeters short of contact, just like the ones that came with the bike. Are they meant to get tighter and I should wrench them on? Doesn't feel right, unless it's intentional??? Both adaptors do it on both sides, and threads look OK. And advice? I don't want to force them on and mess up the threads.

So I think these petcock adaptors I have (from PO) are in fact just plumbing compression couplers or something. They only thread into the tank 4-5 turns before they start to get tight. Both pieces do it on both sides of the tank. My first instinct was to get out a wrench and force them on, but maybe not a good idea? I suspect they are not metric threads... Also they are not threaded internally. I did come up with a trick way to get the screens that came with petcocks from MGcycle to work with them, but now I'm thinking I will just punt and buy the proper adaptors from MGCycle, and screens from John Chicoine.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on November 09, 2021, 09:52:41 PM
So I ordered the petcock adaptors to work with the small block petcocks, both purchased from MG Cycle. And the adaptors have the same problem, threading into the tank they get hand tight a few millimeters short of contact, just like the ones that came with the bike. Are they meant to get tighter and I should wrench them on? Doesn't feel right, unless it's intentional??? Both adaptors do it on both sides, and threads look OK. And advice? I don't want to force them on and mess up the threads.

They should thread in completely, you'll damage them if you just "wrench them on". Buy an M12-1.0 tap and chase the threads in the tank.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on November 09, 2021, 10:41:07 PM
On it, was thinking this might be the way, thank youuuu!

They should thread in completely, you'll damage them if you just "wrench them on". Buy an M12-1.0 tap and chase the threads in the tank.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: John A on November 10, 2021, 04:30:37 AM
I think you have a handlebar solution but here is a tip on choosing bars. Take two pencils and grasp them in the palms of your hands. Hold them out and approximate your riding position. Observe the angle your hands naturally come to and that’s the bar bend to look for.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on November 11, 2021, 11:58:35 AM
Alright alright, petcocks installed ;-) But the adapters I purchased from MGCycle are not internally threaded, as advertised on This Old Tractor, so doubt I will be able to use the screens I've ordered from John C.... ;-/

And battery installed, is it OK that I used 10 gauge wire for the ground, versus the 12 gauge that I think was there before?

Air filter re-oiled and installed. Waiting to bodge the boot on until I'm sure my carb rebuild passes muster.

Handlebars removed, new repo switch in hand, will test fit - along with hella-repos - on original handlebars, pending new ones.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on November 11, 2021, 05:54:31 PM
Alright alright, petcocks installed ;-) But the adapters I purchased from MGCycle are not internally threaded, as advertised on This Old Tractor, so doubt I will be able to use the screens I've ordered from John C.... ;-/

And battery installed, is it OK that I used 10 gauge wire for the ground, versus the 12 gauge that I think was there before?

Air filter re-oiled and installed. Waiting to bodge the boot on until I'm sure my carb rebuild passes muster.

Handlebars removed, new repo switch in hand, will test fit - along with hella-repos - on original handlebars, pending new ones.

The adapters aren't internally threaded, at least none of the four sets I've purchased were. One can thread them though.

10 ga. isn't nearly heavy enough for a main ground cable. 6 ga. at least.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on November 11, 2021, 08:21:03 PM
10 ga. isn't nearly heavy enough for a main ground cable. 6 ga. at least.
I think I misspoke, I meant the secondary, smaller wire attached to the negative terminal along with the 4/6 gauge wire (that is the main ground right?). It was the smaller one that burned out when I shorted the battery last week. I think it was 12 gauge and I used 10 gauge to replace it.

Here's my current battery installation.

(https://i.ibb.co/ftXSXpf/IMG-20211111-165644.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ftXSXpf)

(https://i.ibb.co/3zRK4P1/IMG-20211111-165703.jpg) (https://ibb.co/3zRK4P1)
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on November 20, 2021, 10:02:46 PM
I have a brand new civilian-bend bar. It's a repro but in perfect condition, never used. It's the one MG Cycles sells. Shoot a PM if you want it, I'll cut ya a deal.
Thanks dude!

(https://i.ibb.co/tqCBfnP/IMG-20211120-162017.jpg) (https://ibb.co/tqCBfnP)
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on July 04, 2022, 11:22:49 PM
Hey guys I'm back to working on my bike, want to get it on the road in the next couple of weeks! Currently focused on installing new switch and bar-end signals to the new handlebars. Can anyone point me at any info on installing this switch, I think the four wires on the left go into the headlight bucket, but what about the plug thingie, where does that plug into?

(https://i.ibb.co/NTwN455/0827-AE79-6-C80-4-C73-8-FFD-74-EB2-D95-CD24.jpg) (https://ibb.co/NTwN455)
 
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Tom H on July 05, 2022, 12:15:49 AM
If you know what the switch is from, Benders site has the wiring diagrams for the common ones. He also makes adapters to go from the switch wires to the stock bike wires.

Tom
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on July 05, 2022, 08:25:57 AM
Hey guys I'm back to working on my bike, want to get it on the road in the next couple of weeks! Currently focused on installing new switch and bar-end signals to the new handlebars. Can anyone point me at any info on installing this switch, I think the four wires on the left go into the headlight bucket, but what about the plug thingie, where does that plug into?

(https://i.ibb.co/NTwN455/0827-AE79-6-C80-4-C73-8-FFD-74-EB2-D95-CD24.jpg) (https://ibb.co/NTwN455)


Is that a repro Kawasaki switch? Any identifying markings on the underside? As Tom H wrote, Greg Bender has how to wire a bunch of switches on his website. If it's the Kawasaki switch for instance:
https://www.thisoldtractor.com/moto_guzzi_loopframe_handlebar_switch_-_kawasaki_46091-005_-asahi-denso-.html
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on July 05, 2022, 12:19:38 PM
Thanks guys, yes it is the Kawasaki you recommended, and I am aware of the Bender page but it only tells me the colors. Do all the wires go into the headlight bucket? I haven't opened that up, will do so today. Maybe it will be obvious then but I doubt it haha. I also have the wiring diagram from the manual but man it's like hieroglyphics. I will work through it!

I guess it's the 'plug' on the right in my picture that I'm not sure where that plugs into, or do I need to snip it off and find mates for the individual wires?
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on July 05, 2022, 01:03:16 PM
Thanks guys, yes it is the Kawasaki you recommended, and I am aware of the Bender page but it only tells me the colors. Do all the wires go into the headlight bucket? I haven't opened that up, will do so today. Maybe it will be obvious then but I doubt it haha. I also have the wiring diagram from the manual but man it's like hieroglyphics. I will work through it!

I guess it's the 'plug' on the right in my picture that I'm not sure where that plugs into, or do I need to snip it off and find mates for the individual wires?

Cut the plug and any other Kawasaki terminals off, crimp on new terminals. Depending on handlebars, you may need to lengthen the wires to reach. The three signal wires go in under the tank (assuming you have the factory signal harness - available from Greg Bender if not), the rest go to the headlight.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on July 07, 2022, 07:36:24 PM

(https://i.ibb.co/nCPz2rT/IMG-0845.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nCPz2rT)
Cut the plug and any other Kawasaki terminals off, crimp on new terminals. Depending on handlebars, you may need to lengthen the wires to reach. The three signal wires go in under the tank (assuming you have the factory signal harness - available from Greg Bender if not), the rest go to the headlight.
OK thanks, I opened the headlight and can figure that out, but not sure about where the signal wires go. How do I know if I have the signal harness or not? Can you tell from this picture? I don't see any wires that I would connect the signal wires from the switch to. I don't mind buying the harness from Greg Bender, but it feels like I'm opening a can of worms that doesn't need to be opened. The wiring overall seems OK and intact so do I really need to undo all that, can't I just wire in the signals??

I found the 'Turn signal wiring diagram' from Bender. Do I need a flasher unit? I wish there was a write up on this, there must be. I'll hunt some more.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: czakky82 on July 07, 2022, 08:03:53 PM
 :shocked: What would the “write up” be?
I don’t see turn signal wires. You found Greg’s website. He’s got a fantastic bunch of colored wiring diagrams. Did you go through those?
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on July 07, 2022, 08:21:29 PM

(https://i.ibb.co/nCPz2rT/IMG-0845.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nCPz2rT)
OK thanks, I opened the headlight and can figure that out, but not sure about where the signal wires go. How do I know if I have the signal harness or not? Can you tell from this picture? I don't see any wires that I would connect the signal wires from the switch to. I don't mind buying the harness from Greg Bender, but it feels like I'm opening a can of worms that doesn't need to be opened. The wiring overall seems OK and intact so do I really need to undo all that, can't I just wire in the signals??

I found the 'Turn signal wiring diagram' from Bender. Do I need a flasher unit? I wish there was a write up on this, there must be. I'll hunt some more.

The signal harness is separate harness, so you won't need to do anything with the main harness. Yes, you need a flasher unit, I'd recommend this one or something similar sourced locally:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07MJGC28B

This should help: https://www.thisoldtractor.com/moto_guzzi_loopframe_wiring_harness_install_turn_signals.html
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on July 08, 2022, 03:53:56 PM
Thank you Charlie, flasher ordered and I've contacted Greg Bender about a sub-harness. Progress! Maybe I'll make a little video of installation for others wanting to do it.

The signal harness is separate harness, so you won't need to do anything with the main harness. Yes, you need a flasher unit, I'd recommend this one or something similar sourced locally:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07MJGC28B

This should help: https://www.thisoldtractor.com/moto_guzzi_loopframe_wiring_harness_install_turn_signals.html
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on July 17, 2022, 07:12:48 PM
Hi Charlie, the Kawasaki 46091-005 switch has two groups of wires in sheaths coming out of it, one goes to the headlight bucket, and the other has the turn signal wiring and the horn. On thisoldtractor the wiring table says 'Horn (wire to distribution panel)'. Do I need to separate the horn wire and route it independently to the headlight bucket to wear the original horn wire was plugged in? Or is the 'distribution panel' somewhere else? Thank you.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on July 17, 2022, 08:56:24 PM
Hi Charlie, the Kawasaki 46091-005 switch has two groups of wires in sheaths coming out of it, one goes to the headlight bucket, and the other has the turn signal wiring and the horn. On thisoldtractor the wiring table says 'Horn (wire to distribution panel)'. Do I need to separate the horn wire and route it independently to the headlight bucket to wear the original horn wire was plugged in? Or is the 'distribution panel' somewhere else? Thank you.

I remove the horn wire from the signal bundle and slip it into the sheath with the wires to the headlight. It connects the same place as the original horn wire.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on July 21, 2022, 07:26:49 PM
I remove the horn wire from the signal bundle and slip it into the sheath with the wires to the headlight. It connects the same place as the original horn wire.
I couldn't get the wire in the other sheath, not enough room. So I just sliced the sheath open lol, will tape it shut. But the good news is it's all wired together and working! Thanks again for the help.

I do have one stray wire, can't remember where it connects, it comes from the voltage regulator. Any insight into where it goes? See picture.

I'm thinking of ordering these tires, any opinions on them?
Shinko 230 Tour Master Rear Tire (120/90-18)
Shinko 230 Tour Master Front Tire - 110/90V-18/Blackwall

Reading Greg Bender he says "110/90-18 in the rear and a 100/90-18 up front"...?


(https://i.ibb.co/qyZj74s/IMG-0875.jpg) (https://ibb.co/qyZj74s)
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on July 21, 2022, 08:29:02 PM
I couldn't get the wire in the other sheath, not enough room. So I just sliced the sheath open lol, will tape it shut. But the good news is it's all wired together and working! Thanks again for the help.

I do have one stray wire, can't remember where it connects, it comes from the voltage regulator. Any insight into where it goes? See picture.

I'm thinking of ordering these tires, any opinions on them?
Shinko 230 Tour Master Rear Tire (120/90-18)
Shinko 230 Tour Master Front Tire - 110/90V-18/Blackwall

Reading Greg Bender he says "110/90-18 in the rear and a 100/90-18 up front"...?


(https://i.ibb.co/qyZj74s/IMG-0875.jpg) (https://ibb.co/qyZj74s)


If it goes to the B+ terminal on the voltage regulator, then it connects to the positive terminal of the battery.

Those are the tires and sizes I use on my own Ambo, and install on customer's Loops.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on March 23, 2023, 04:16:47 PM
Hi guys quick question on routing fuel lines. I'm using the dual banjo setup, does it matter if the fuel lines go below the carbs? Looking at some pictures it looks like it's OK if they do so. Or do they need to stay above te floats for gravity to pull fuel? Trying to find cleanest install I can and it seems like going under might be helpful. Thanks.

Also, do people ever run fuel lines diagonally, as in right petcock feeds left carb and vice versa?
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on March 23, 2023, 04:34:00 PM
Hi guys quick question on routing fuel lines. I'm using the dual banjo setup, does it matter if the fuel lines go below the carbs? Looking at some pictures it looks like it's OK if they do so. Or do they need to stay above te floats for gravity to pull fuel? Trying to find cleanest install I can and it seems like going under might be helpful. Thanks.

Also, do people ever run fuel lines diagonally, as in right petcock feeds left carb and vice versa?

Under is fine, and in fact is can be helpful - dirt or water will settle to the lowest point. Running them to the opposite side works well too, helps with routing sometimes.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on March 25, 2023, 05:43:35 PM
Thank you, fuel lines installed, petcocks installed with stainless stand screens from John G. On the left side the it seems like the petcock switch is really close to the cables coming off the carb, does that look OK?

Any suggestions on retaining clips for the fuel lines?

Next is getting the carbs set up/tuned. Is this doable without special tools? I've been starting to research it, will plug away at it.


(https://i.ibb.co/Yjh8Lx8/guzzicarbs-L.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Yjh8Lx8)

(https://i.ibb.co/tz8zQfZ/guzzicarbs-R.jpg) (https://ibb.co/tz8zQfZ)
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on March 25, 2023, 06:44:34 PM
Thank you, fuel lines installed, petcocks installed with stainless stand screens from John G. On the left side the it seems like the petcock switch is really close to the cables coming off the carb, does that look OK?

Any suggestions on retaining clips for the fuel lines?

Next is getting the carbs set up/tuned. Is this doable without special tools? I've been starting to research it, will plug away at it.


(https://i.ibb.co/Yjh8Lx8/guzzicarbs-L.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Yjh8Lx8)

(https://i.ibb.co/tz8zQfZ/guzzicarbs-R.jpg) (https://ibb.co/tz8zQfZ)


Looks fine.

I use these spring clamps on Tygon hose:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/195670111426

What kind of hose is that? Ethanol resistant or ethanol proof I hope.

https://www.thisoldtractor.com/moto_guzzi_loopframe_carburetor_-_setting_them_up.html
https://www.thisoldtractor.com/moto_guzzi_loopframe_carburetor_balancing_synchronizing_without_carb_sticks.html
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on March 27, 2023, 03:12:40 PM
OK cool. I used "CLEAR MOTION PRO PREMIUM FUEL LINE, 5/16", 3 FEET" from MG CYCLE:

https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=30&products_id=4439

Let me know if that's a problem! OK, on to the carbs...
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on March 27, 2023, 03:26:35 PM
OK cool. I used "CLEAR MOTION PRO PREMIUM FUEL LINE, 5/16", 3 FEET" from MG CYCLE:

https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=30&products_id=4439

Let me know if that's a problem! OK, on to the carbs...

You should be "good to go" then. 5/16" fits a bit loose on the petcocks and banjos for my liking, I prefer 1/4". The clamps I linked to may not work with 5/16" hose.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on March 28, 2023, 06:33:23 PM
OK I followed the instructions and I think I did it correctly. But I noticed I'm missing a lock nut on the Right side throttle cable... and I have what appears to be an oversized lock nut on the Left side chock cable. I'm assuming I should definitly get one for the missing one right? Can i just use an oversized one from the hardware store? Or should I replace both with the correct one I can order from MG cycle? just seems like a waste of shipping cost haha.
Thanks!

(https://i.ibb.co/hgDSNCS/guzzicarbs2-R.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hgDSNCS)

(https://i.ibb.co/F03v9ZZ/guzzicarbs2-L.jpg) (https://ibb.co/F03v9ZZ)
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on March 28, 2023, 06:59:35 PM
The missing locknut was likely removed so that the cable would have enough slack. If you install one, the cable may be too short for adequate slack.

Good luck finding a nut at the hardware store - M6-.75 thread is not common like an M6-1.0. Plus it'll be a 10 mm hex not 8 mm like the originals.

Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on March 28, 2023, 07:13:28 PM
So I can do without it? At least for now? If so, I'm close to trying to start it I think! I bought a gallon of premium fuel. Waiting for the fuel line clips, arriving tomorrow I think. Haven't changed the oil, but it's Ok to start start it? Will do full oil change before riding.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on March 28, 2023, 08:02:20 PM
So I can do without it? At least for now? If so, I'm close to trying to start it I think! I bought a gallon of premium fuel. Waiting for the fuel line clips, arriving tomorrow I think. Haven't changed the oil, but it's Ok to start start it? Will do full oil change before riding.

Sure, won't hurt anything as-is. I'd dump the oil that's in it and start fresh. 3 qts. only.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on March 28, 2023, 09:53:00 PM
So change the oil before trying to start it? I can do that, but thought I should get it warm before draining oil. Not sure why I thought that, but I can drain oil while cold and refill. What kind of oil do you recommend?
I'm excited to see it running, have had the bike almost two years without it running lolol!!

Sure, won't hurt anything as-is. I'd dump the oil that's in it and start fresh. 3 qts. only.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on March 28, 2023, 10:02:24 PM
So change the oil before trying to start it? I can do that, but thought I should get it warm before draining oil. Not sure why I thought that, but I can drain oil while cold and refill. What kind of oil do you recommend?
I'm excited to see it running, have had the bike almost two years without it running lolol!!

I run Shell Rotella T4 15w40.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Cam3512 on March 29, 2023, 08:12:03 AM
Might want to just drain the oil cold, then drop the sump and clean out any sludge.  Have a fresh gasket, and a dab of anti seize on each pan bolt when putting it back on.  Don’t over tighten.  You don’t want to strip anything on the block.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on March 30, 2023, 02:24:14 PM
So I thought I would just crank the engine before adding fuel, just to check. I got nothing when pushing start button. Clutch was engaged. Couldn't get neutral light to come on, and not familiar with gears to know if I found it or not. Battery is showing 12 volts. I guess I need to start checking continuity of electrical wiring... Any suggestions? Is there some some special condition that needs to be met for start button to work?
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on March 30, 2023, 03:50:51 PM
So I thought I would just crank the engine before adding fuel, just to check. I got nothing when pushing start button. Clutch was engaged. Couldn't get neutral light to come on, and not familiar with gears to know if I found it or not. Battery is showing 12 volts. I guess I need to start checking continuity of electrical wiring... Any suggestions? Is there some some special condition that needs to be met for start button to work?

Your Ambo may still be wired so that the starter will only engage if the transmission is in neutral. It's easy to tell and fix - if there is both a green wire and black wire connected to the neutral switch stud, then it will only start in neutral. If you want it to start in gear, then the green wire will remain on the neutral switch stud, but the black wire should be connected to a nearby bolt on the transmission case.

Remember that the shift pattern is "backwards" - one up, three down - so you may not be in the "real" neutral.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on March 30, 2023, 10:02:42 PM
Your Ambo may still be wired so that the starter will only engage if the transmission is in neutral. It's easy to tell and fix - if there is both a green wire and black wire connected to the neutral switch stud, then it will only start in neutral. If you want it to start in gear, then the green wire will remain on the neutral switch stud, but the black wire should be connected to a nearby bolt on the transmission case.

Remember that the shift pattern is "backwards" - one up, three down - so you may not be in the "real" neutral.
OK that was it. I tried to move black wire to one of the bolts holding on the neutral switch, but I can't thread the bolt back in. I haven't tried very hard but it's definitely meeting some resistance a few turns in. Hope I haven't damaged threads. Guess I'll have to try and chase it out?

So I attached black wire to a different bolt and it cranks. Let fuel flow and it cranked for a bit but no joy. Now won't crank, maybe I wore down the battery, need to check voltage tomorrow. Thanks for the help!
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: John A on March 30, 2023, 10:34:21 PM
Probly goo on the threads, pesky leaks there sometimes. Won’t leak much, sometimes enough to make a drip. It can migrate up and out of the connector as well.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on March 31, 2023, 08:34:31 AM
OK that was it. I tried to move black wire to one of the bolts holding on the neutral switch, but I can't thread the bolt back in. I haven't tried very hard but it's definitely meeting some resistance a few turns in. Hope I haven't damaged threads. Guess I'll have to try and chase it out?

So I attached black wire to a different bolt and it cranks. Let fuel flow and it cranked for a bit but no joy. Now won't crank, maybe I wore down the battery, need to check voltage tomorrow. Thanks for the help!

The black plastic of the neutral switch gets deformed from the bolt compressing it. I too have trouble getting them to go back in on occasion. What usually works is a short M10 socket on the nut driver handle - that way I can guide it straight and apply pressure as well. You might also try running an M6-1.0 tap in to chase the threads, taking care to get it straight.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on April 06, 2023, 07:58:54 PM
OK so I'm not getting any spark, checked by grounding plug body and seeing no arc. Should I check the plugs/leads in some other way? Coil is showing 12 volts, so maybe distributor is issue? Any tips on troubleshooting that? Here is picture of inside of distributor.

(https://i.ibb.co/BGBxwSx/guzzi-distrib1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/BGBxwSx)
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on April 06, 2023, 09:03:39 PM
The contacts (the points) look white and fluffy with corrosion. They don't work too well like that - clean the contacts with very fine (something like 600 grit) sandpaper until they're clean and shiny. Spray them down with contact cleaner afterwards. Gap them to .016". Clean the cam and apply a little dab of distributor grease.

Looks like the advance spring in the photos was mangled during installation too.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: John A on April 07, 2023, 11:56:47 AM
What Charlie says. It also looks like corrosion on the points spring and its connection .
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on April 07, 2023, 01:40:33 PM
OK thanks guys! Will try that today, hopefully I have the correct feeler gauge already. I'm supposed to advance the rear wheel until the points open up or something? Any guide/tutorial somewhere for this, I looked on This Old Tractor but didn't find.

Also what do you think of the Guzziology book? I noticed Greg Bender recommended it, thought I might get a copy?
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Dave Swanson on April 07, 2023, 01:54:17 PM
OK thanks guys! Will try that today, hopefully I have the correct feeler gauge already. I'm supposed to advance the rear wheel until the points open up or something? Any guide/tutorial somewhere for this, I looked on This Old Tractor but didn't find.

Also what do you think of the Guzziology book? I noticed Greg Bender recommended it, thought I might get a copy?

Guzziology is a fantastic resource, a must for the library.  That along with TOT, Chilton's,  and the resident experts here you will all the bases covered
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on April 07, 2023, 03:53:05 PM
OK thanks guys! Will try that today, hopefully I have the correct feeler gauge already. I'm supposed to advance the rear wheel until the points open up or something? Any guide/tutorial somewhere for this, I looked on This Old Tractor but didn't find.

Also what do you think of the Guzziology book? I noticed Greg Bender recommended it, thought I might get a copy?

I prefer to remove the spark plugs and generator belt cover, then use a ratchet w/26 mm socket to turn the engine. A 1 1/16" wrench will work as well. There are two lobes on the distributor cam, turn the engine until the rub block of the points is on the center of the wider one, and set the gap there.

This might be the best manual for you:
https://www.thisoldtractor.com/mg_manuals/tune_up_guide_for_the_shade_tree_mechanic.pdf
and/or
https://www.thisoldtractor.com/mg_manuals/workshop_manual_chilton.pdf
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on April 15, 2023, 02:34:56 PM
It lives! Got it started, see video on YouTube below. How does it sound? I probably need to do some tuning/timing. I only ran it for 30 seconds or so.

https://youtu.be/znF85SjojCQ
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on April 15, 2023, 03:21:14 PM
Was that running on choke?
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on April 15, 2023, 03:57:11 PM
At first no, but I think I opened the choke up after a few seconds. I could do another video with it on or off, and for longer time period. Helpful?

Was that running on choke?
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on April 15, 2023, 04:01:59 PM
Sounded good, sounded like it was on choke though.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on April 19, 2023, 02:09:49 PM
Thanks so much for all your help Charlie, I'm feeling close to actually giving it a ride!  :bow: If you or anyone else can spare 3 minutes here's a longer video where you can see me playing with choke. I'm curious if you have any tuning tips, and/or should I check the timing? I don't have a timing light, but could buy one if needed. Thanks!

https://youtu.be/-4X_O0AjrVg
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: adaven on April 19, 2023, 04:38:33 PM
Charlie, I wonder how you can tell that the choke is on in the first 30 sec. video?
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: John A on April 21, 2023, 08:07:27 PM
I don’t want to answer for Charlie, I learn something every time he posts but the exhaust note sounds duller with the choke on.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on April 21, 2023, 08:38:51 PM
Charlie, I wonder how you can tell that the choke is on in the first 30 sec. video?

From the sound - it's kind of "chugging" versus running smoothly.

Thanks so much for all your help Charlie, I'm feeling close to actually giving it a ride!  :bow: If you or anyone else can spare 3 minutes here's a longer video where you can see me playing with choke. I'm curious if you have any tuning tips, and/or should I check the timing? I don't have a timing light, but could buy one if needed. Thanks!

https://youtu.be/-4X_O0AjrVg

You really should have a timing light to set the timing more accurately. A suitable one is less than $30.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: guzziart on April 22, 2023, 12:37:23 PM
Good thread!

:popcorn:
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Cam3512 on April 22, 2023, 03:43:21 PM
Only Charlie would know that.  Guzzi heart doctor!
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on April 23, 2023, 09:51:58 PM
OK thanks Charlie and everyone, I'm going to get a timing light this week and give it a go. Another question: aside from the solo seat on MGcycle.com are there any other good options for a solo seat. I kind of like the thinner profile, more molded ones I have seen but not sure.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on April 23, 2023, 10:12:00 PM
OK thanks Charlie and everyone, I'm going to get a timing light this week and give it a go. Another question: aside from the solo seat on MGcycle.com are there any other good options for a solo seat. I kind of like the thinner profile, more molded ones I have seen but not sure.

I like the seat that Harper's sells.
https://www.harpermoto.com/solo-seat-v700-ambassador-eldorado.html
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on April 23, 2023, 10:37:00 PM
Yes I'm considering that one. I also like this one, I'm wondering if I can get it attached without too much hassle?
https://richphillipscycles.com/black-leather-diamond-pleat-fade-tractor-seat/
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: guzziart on April 24, 2023, 07:58:57 AM
I like the seat that Harper's sells.
https://www.harpermoto.com/solo-seat-v700-ambassador-eldorado.html

Me too!  Hey, anyone got a used one for sale cheap before I blow all the kid's inheritance??!! :laugh:
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on April 24, 2023, 08:00:31 AM
Yes I'm considering that one. I also like this one, I'm wondering if I can get it attached without too much hassle?
https://richphillipscycles.com/black-leather-diamond-pleat-fade-tractor-seat/

Since they don't show an underside photo, it's hard to tell how hard it will be to mount it.

There's always the Harley police solo seat reproductions on ebay. They mount up fairly easily.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/353160537108
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on April 25, 2023, 07:45:00 PM
OK I've been researching checking the timing with a timing light, but I think I have a problem: the tachometer does not appear to be working. Needle doesn't move at all with the engine running, even if I rev it up a little. Does this rule out using a timing light?

Should I do static timing for now? https://www.thisoldtractor.com/moto_guzzi_loopframe_ignition_timing.html
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on April 25, 2023, 08:42:40 PM
Having a non-working tach doesn't rule out using a timing light. You might find one in your price range that has a tach built in.

Static timing is a good place to start.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on April 30, 2023, 07:49:50 PM
OK I bought a timing light with tach. Was trying to check timing, seemed off, at 1200rpm was at mark #2 not #3, so I loosed distributor and moved it, but didn't get far before bike wouldn't start again, and no spark. Checked point gap and it seemed too open now, so I reset it, and put distributor back together. Now have spark and bike will start, might have been points or maybe I did not have distribuotr seated properly.

In any case new issue: fuel dripping from left side muffler?! See picture, it's more than a few drops. Maybe from all the cranking I did when bike wouldn't start? I let it run a few minutes to see if it stopped but it didn't seem to be so I shut it off. 5 minutes later still a drip every 15-20 seconds. What to do?
(https://i.ibb.co/RbWLHFr/fullsizeoutput-d96.jpg) (https://ibb.co/RbWLHFr)
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: John A on April 30, 2023, 08:18:10 PM
I’d start by checking the float and needle valve for sticking open letting fuel overflow. Sometimes you can rap on the bowl and it’ll stop.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on May 01, 2023, 02:48:06 PM
OK thanks, I'll open up the float bowl and see what's up. That makes me nervous, is it very un/common to have that much fuel in muffler??
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on May 01, 2023, 03:57:10 PM
You might want to check the oil level in the engine to make sure gas hasn't flowed past the carbs into the crankcase.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on May 02, 2023, 05:19:48 PM
Thanks Charley, indeed oil level high and smelling of gas. I drained it. Opened carb bowl but not sure what I'm looking for. Any specific part I can check and how?
https://youtube.com/shorts/t6LKwzX_ekw?feature=share


You might want to check the oil level in the engine to make sure gas hasn't flowed past the carbs into the crankcase.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on May 03, 2023, 08:00:19 AM
Thanks Charley, indeed oil level high and smelling of gas. I drained it. Opened carb bowl but not sure what I'm looking for. Any specific part I can check and how?
https://youtube.com/shorts/t6LKwzX_ekw?feature=share

A few things to check:
1. floats: do they "slosh" when shaken due to gas inside? If not, good.
2. float needles: black tip (bad) or orange tip (good)?

The float needle seats are non-removable in Loop VHBs, so I use a Q-Tip chucked up in my drill, with a little fine valve grinding compound applied to the Q-Tip, to polish the seats.

(https://i.ibb.co/gRBZ7NS/Polishing-VHB-float-needle-seat.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gRBZ7NS)


Float levels need to be correctly set (23.5-24.5 mm).
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on May 03, 2023, 10:57:33 PM
No slosh in the floats, but the float needle tips are black, see picture. Right side also black. So replace them?

Anything I need to do other than add back 3 quarts engine oil? Does the gas in the engine block cause any damage? Will remove oil pan tomorrow, and replace gasket, which arrived today.
(https://i.ibb.co/KLHQz4d/66731983-0421-4-DB5-9-C4-F-191-B2-D0-DFEEC-1-201-a.jpg) (https://ibb.co/KLHQz4d)
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on May 04, 2023, 08:40:22 AM
No slosh in the floats, but the float needle tips are black, see picture. Right side also black. So replace them?

Anything I need to do other than add back 3 quarts engine oil? Does the gas in the engine block cause any damage? Will remove oil pan tomorrow, and replace gasket, which arrived today.
(https://i.ibb.co/KLHQz4d/66731983-0421-4-DB5-9-C4-F-191-B2-D0-DFEEC-1-201-a.jpg) (https://ibb.co/KLHQz4d)


Yes, replace the float needles.

Hopefully the diluted oil mixture didn't cause any damage to the engine. I'd fill it as usual, but change it "short" - after about 500 miles.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on May 04, 2023, 02:23:57 PM
OK will do thanks. Frustrating to not yet be riding it, but hey I'm learning a lot, and it's raining out anyway haha!

Question about replacing spark plugs/wires. They seem OK but I think I'll replace them anyway, just so I know what I have. Are these plug wires from MG Cycle Ok to use:
https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=41

I'm assuming I need to replace the caps as well? These are OK?
https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=3004
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on May 04, 2023, 07:20:06 PM
OK will do thanks. Frustrating to not yet be riding it, but hey I'm learning a lot, and it's raining out anyway haha!

Question about replacing spark plugs/wires. They seem OK but I think I'll replace them anyway, just so I know what I have. Are these plug wires from MG Cycle Ok to use:
https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=41

I'm assuming I need to replace the caps as well? These are OK?
https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=3004

Good plug wire, but plug caps without metal shields. I found that those can short out when it rains. If you can find them, I'd recommend NGK LB05F (resistor) caps with non-resistor plugs (such as NGK BP6ES or Denso W20RP-U).
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on May 14, 2023, 07:11:55 PM
OK I got the new float needles installed, in polished seats. Hope that stops the gasoline from going every which way lol! New plug wires and caps installed.

Any tips on separating the oil pan from the engine block? 14 bolts removed, but before I try some force want to make sure there's nothing I'm missing. Thanks!
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on May 14, 2023, 09:21:15 PM
OK I got the new float needles installed, in polished seats. Hope that stops the gasoline from going every which way lol! New plug wires and caps installed.

Any tips on separating the oil pan from the engine block? 14 bolts removed, but before I try some force want to make sure there's nothing I'm missing. Thanks!

That's all the bolts there is on a stock Loop. Put something soft under the pan (old towel, etc.), slip a pry bar between the oil drain plug and engine bellhousing and pry down. The pan should pop off. Have fun scraping the old gasket off.  :wink:
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on May 16, 2023, 07:34:38 PM
OK got it off without too much trouble. Yeah, getting the old gasket off was fun haha, and there was this sealant/caulk spooged around everywhere. How clean do I need to get the two sides? I'm down to the point where even a brass wire brush doesn't touch what's left, it's more like discoloration of the metal I think. I did get the sealant out of the bolt holes that is seen in the picture.

And the gasket I bought has some additional bits to toward the inside that does not seem relevant to my bike, should I just cut that stuff off? Planning to smear gasket with auto grease then bolt on. Do I need to use torque wrench? Spec?

(https://i.ibb.co/r0WJh09/fullsizeoutput-da9.jpg) (https://ibb.co/r0WJh09)

(https://i.ibb.co/hVByBRX/fullsizeoutput-da4.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hVByBRX)

free image hosting (https://imgbb.com/)
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on May 16, 2023, 09:09:06 PM
OK got it off without too much trouble. Yeah, getting the old gasket off was fun haha, and there was this sealant/caulk spooged around everywhere. How clean do I need to get the two sides? I'm down to the point where even a brass wire brush doesn't touch what's left, it's more like discoloration of the metal I think. I did get the sealant out of the bolt holes that is seen in the picture.

And the gasket I bought has some additional bits to toward the inside that does not seem relevant to my bike, should I just cut that stuff off? Planning to smear gasket with auto grease then bolt on. Do I need to use torque wrench? Spec?

(https://i.ibb.co/r0WJh09/fullsizeoutput-da9.jpg) (https://ibb.co/r0WJh09)

(https://i.ibb.co/hVByBRX/fullsizeoutput-da4.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hVByBRX)

free image hosting (https://imgbb.com/)


Looks clean enough.

Cut the unnecessary bits off, the gasket is made for oil filter engines. Grease is good. You don't absolutely need a torque wrench, but it's not a bad idea. 84 inch pounds/7 ft. lbs.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on May 22, 2023, 01:48:03 PM
Thanks a million, I would be lost without your help! Got oil pan reinstalled and fresh oil in. Need to put air filter/battery back in and see if it will start, then try again with timing light I bought.

Regarding the fuel in the engine, how confident are you that it was the float needles? I noticed in Guzziology he mentions black and red tipped float needles as just two variants. Is he wrong about that, do the red ones turn black when bad? Just curious if there's anything else I should look for that could have caused fuel to get into the engine, before cranking again?
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on May 22, 2023, 05:21:43 PM
Thanks a million, I would be lost without your help! Got oil pan reinstalled and fresh oil in. Need to put air filter/battery back in and see if it will start, then try again with timing light I bought.

Regarding the fuel in the engine, how confident are you that it was the float needles? I noticed in Guzziology he mentions black and red tipped float needles as just two variants. Is he wrong about that, do the red ones turn black when bad? Just curious if there's anything else I should look for that could have caused fuel to get into the engine, before cranking again?

Leaking float needles (can also be a bad sealing surface on the seats) is the most common cause of gas in the oil. Can be combined with leaky petcocks and floats filling with gas for the "perfect storm". IIRC, the black tip on the old float needles was Buna-N (not Ethanol resistant), the red/orange tips are Viton (which is). I've never seen a red one turn any color, even after sitting in old stinky gas for a few years.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: czakky82 on May 22, 2023, 06:49:35 PM
Although I can’t take credit for this move. I use a polishing compound on the valve orifice on a q-tip.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on May 22, 2023, 07:16:51 PM
Although I can’t take credit for this move. I use a polishing compound on the valve orifice on a q-tip.

The float needle seats are non-removable in Loop VHBs, so I use a Q-Tip chucked up in my drill, with a little fine valve grinding compound applied to the Q-Tip, to polish the seats.

(https://i.ibb.co/gRBZ7NS/Polishing-VHB-float-needle-seat.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gRBZ7NS)

Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: bobbyfromnc on May 25, 2023, 11:33:44 AM
Great Thread!
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on June 10, 2023, 06:43:33 PM
OK well I had it running yesterday for a minute, then came back today at it wouldn't crank. Have noticed whiff of smoke from starter sometimes when it won't start. So was checking connectors and this one broke in my hand. I think it goes from starter solenoid to the kill switch. This connector looks specialized? Can I just cut it, strip the end and use an electrical connector that fits? Or do I need some specialized electrical connector? Thanks. Hoping this was my culprit in no crank.

(https://i.ibb.co/9bhpXDX/startersolinoidconnectorbad.jpg) (https://ibb.co/9bhpXDX)

upload (https://imgbb.com/)
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on June 10, 2023, 08:42:32 PM
OK well I had it running yesterday for a minute, then came back today at it wouldn't crank. Have noticed whiff of smoke from starter sometimes when it won't start. So was checking connectors and this one broke in my hand. I think it goes from starter solenoid to the kill switch. This connector looks specialized? Can I just cut it, strip the end and use an electrical connector that fits? Or do I need some specialized electrical connector? Thanks. Hoping this was my culprit in no crank.

(https://i.ibb.co/9bhpXDX/startersolinoidconnectorbad.jpg) (https://ibb.co/9bhpXDX)

upload (https://imgbb.com/)


Did you mean to write "starter solenoid to starter button"? There isn't a kill switch, at least not originally.

The photo isn't clear enough to see what you're showing.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Howard R on June 11, 2023, 04:09:43 PM
What you have there is standard crimp-on ring lug terminal.  The ring part has broken off of the rest of the terminal, likely from being bent/flexed and fatiguing the cheap, thin copper.  Can easily be replaced if you have another terminal of the correct size for the wire gauge.  If that is a big, high current battery cable you will need a much heavier terminal.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on June 11, 2023, 06:56:44 PM
Sorry here is a better photo, and the wire in question is connected from the starter solenoid to the neutral switch stud.
It just looked weird but I realize now is just probably factory electrical connection. Will replace it and see if it solves problem.
(https://i.ibb.co/16jvGF2/startersolinoidconnectorbad.jpg) (https://ibb.co/16jvGF2)



Did you mean to write "starter solenoid to starter button"? There isn't a kill switch, at least not originally.

The photo isn't clear enough to see what you're showing.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on June 11, 2023, 06:58:33 PM
Thanks yes, with a little time I realized it wasn't that odd. I have rewired it but it doesn't solve my problem ;-(

What you have there is standard crimp-on ring lug terminal.  The ring part has broken off of the rest of the terminal, likely from being bent/flexed and fatiguing the cheap, thin copper.  Can easily be replaced if you have another terminal of the correct size for the wire gauge.  If that is a big, high current battery cable you will need a much heavier terminal.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on June 11, 2023, 07:30:22 PM
OK I rewired the funky starter solenoid to neutral switch wire, but still no joy. Wisp of smoke from the solenoid *I think* - made a video after first try, this time no smoke, but you can hear clicking and kind of 'burning' sound??
https://youtube.com/shorts/tP8NWwARzUc?feature=share

Did I fry the solenoid maybe? The bit of smoke came from that first connector you see in the video *I think*, red wire with yellow connector.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on June 11, 2023, 09:02:18 PM
Sorry here is a better photo, and the wire in question is connected from the starter solenoid to the neutral switch stud.
It just looked weird but I realize now is just probably factory electrical connection. Will replace it and see if it solves problem.
(https://i.ibb.co/16jvGF2/startersolinoidconnectorbad.jpg) (https://ibb.co/16jvGF2)


Ground wire then. If wired that way, it will only start in neutral.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on June 12, 2023, 12:29:56 PM
OK I rewired the funky starter solenoid to neutral switch wire, but still no joy. Wisp of smoke from the solenoid *I think* - made a video after first try, this time no smoke, but you can hear clicking and kind of 'burning' sound??
https://youtube.com/shorts/tP8NWwARzUc?feature=share

Did I fry the solenoid maybe? The bit of smoke came from that first connector you see in the video *I think*, red wire with yellow connector.

The starter and solenoid need to be serviced. Here's a "how to" for the Bosch, the Marelli is similar.
https://www.thisoldtractor.com/moto_guzzi_loopframe_starter_and_solenoid_repair_-bosch-.html
If you don't feel comfortable doing it yourself, then find a local automotive electrical repair shop and have them do it. I have a good one near me, so if you can't find one near you, send the starter to me and I'll have them do it.

Alternatives:
1. Find a good used Bosch (Loop - late Ambo or Eldo) starter. The Bosch is a bit more efficient than the Marelli and parts are more available.
2. Adapt a Valeo or Valeo copy:
https://www.thisoldtractor.com/moto_guzzi_loopframe_starter_-_how_to_replace_the_magneti_marelli_starter_with_a_valeo.html
Copies are widely available on ebay, cheap. Work well. https://www.ebay.com/itm/275385225631
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on June 12, 2023, 11:07:36 PM
Ok thanks! That gives me some much needed direction. I will take it off and see what I can do. If I need to just buy a replacement, what do you think of the unit for sale on MG Cycle?
https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=4893

Seems like a reasonable price for starter+solenoid. Does this include the solenoid? It looks like it...
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on June 13, 2023, 08:48:37 AM
Ok thanks! That gives me some much needed direction. I will take it off and see what I can do. If I need to just buy a replacement, what do you think of the unit for sale on MG Cycle?
https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=4893

Seems like a reasonable price for starter+solenoid. Does this include the solenoid? It looks like it...

The MG Cycle unit is a Valeo copy, the same as the ebay one I linked to. They all seem to work well. All of them include the solenoid.

I do have a good stock of used Marelli starters and parts should you need anything for your starter.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on July 13, 2023, 04:36:10 PM
OK I decided to go with the Ebay unit you suggested, thanks! Making the modifications to get it to fit but my latest snag is I garbled the threads in the receiving end of the right side of neutral switch stud. I thought I was trying to get through the rubber so gave it some force and wasn't trying hard enough for straight alignment I guess. Quite mad about it lol.

So now, do I try to chase with M6 tap? I think I may have messed it up pretty bad, so not sure I can salvage the M6. I do have a 1/4-20 tap that is a bit bigger, try that? Or order an M8 tap? Thanks for any tips.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on July 13, 2023, 07:01:34 PM
OK I decided to go with the Ebay unit you suggested, thanks! Making the modifications to get it to fit but my latest snag is I garbled the threads in the receiving end of the right side of neutral switch stud. I thought I was trying to get through the rubber so gave it some force and wasn't trying hard enough for straight alignment I guess. Quite mad about it lol.

So now, do I try to chase with M6 tap? I think I may have messed it up pretty bad, so not sure I can salvage the M6. I do have a 1/4-20 tap that is a bit bigger, try that? Or order an M8 tap? Thanks for any tips.

It's easy to do - the plastic neutral switch tries to make the bolt go in at an angle for some reason. Chase it with an M6-1.0 tap.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on August 22, 2023, 05:14:26 PM
OK I got the new starter installed, seems to work well. Chasing those threads was a lot easier than I feared, thanks! ;-)

But now I'm getting fuel in the muffler again argh! Just on the left side, this picturewas after around 3 minutes of running it. I already got new float needles and polished the seats, and double checked the floats are not taking on fuel. I did check the float position by measuring and they both seemed OK. Anything else it could be?


(https://i.ibb.co/3fgKQNh/IMG-2301.jpg) (https://ibb.co/3fgKQNh)


I guess I'll need to change the oil yet again ;-/

Hmmm, thinking about it more: I just was trying to check the timing and around 1200 rpm the appropriate mark was aligning OK, but when I bumped up to 2200 rpm the marks did not move (advance?) very much, and I remembered the issue where the spring in my advance mechanism was maybe installed improperly. Could this be causing the advance mechanism to be working improperly and letting it run too rich and pushing fuel unburnt fuel through? I'm just guessing! lol


(https://i.ibb.co/GvDNW17/IMG-2273.jpg) (https://ibb.co/GvDNW17)
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on August 22, 2023, 06:19:11 PM
I removed plugs and left side is definitely wet with fuel.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on August 26, 2023, 08:39:21 AM
OK I got the new starter installed, seems to work well. Chasing those threads was a lot easier than I feared, thanks! ;-)

But now I'm getting fuel in the muffler again argh! Just on the left side, this picturewas after around 3 minutes of running it. I already got new float needles and polished the seats, and double checked the floats are not taking on fuel. I did check the float position by measuring and they both seemed OK. Anything else it could be?


(https://i.ibb.co/3fgKQNh/IMG-2301.jpg) (https://ibb.co/3fgKQNh)


I guess I'll need to change the oil yet again ;-/

Hmmm, thinking about it more: I just was trying to check the timing and around 1200 rpm the appropriate mark was aligning OK, but when I bumped up to 2200 rpm the marks did not move (advance?) very much, and I remembered the issue where the spring in my advance mechanism was maybe installed improperly. Could this be causing the advance mechanism to be working improperly and letting it run too rich and pushing fuel unburnt fuel through? I'm just guessing! lol


(https://i.ibb.co/GvDNW17/IMG-2273.jpg) (https://ibb.co/GvDNW17)


Are you sure it's gas and not just gassy/rusty condensation? Idle and main jets in their correct holes? If the advance isn't working, then it might be time to strip it down, clean and lubricate, replace the springs.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on August 27, 2023, 12:51:38 PM
OK thank you, I will rebuild the distributor today, I have the new springs. Will then run it again and see if I get more fuel in muffler.

"Idle and main jets in their correct holes?" I believe so, but will check this next if I'm still getting fuel coming through.


Are you sure it's gas and not just gassy/rusty condensation? Idle and main jets in their correct holes? If the advance isn't working, then it might be time to strip it down, clean and lubricate, replace the springs.
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on August 27, 2023, 07:39:52 PM
OK thank you, I will rebuild the distributor today, I have the new springs. Will then run it again and see if I get more fuel in muffler.

"Idle and main jets in their correct holes?" I believe so, but will check this next if I'm still getting fuel coming through.

https://www.thisoldtractor.com/moto_guzzi_loopframe_distributor_rebuild.html
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: demet on September 02, 2023, 05:22:08 PM
Ok distributor semi rebuilt. Stopped at that pin holding gear shaft ugh. The bike is not very worn in general so I hope this will be ok for now.

I have this gasket that came with bike, not sure how old but seems in ok condition. When I fit it on should I pre-lube it with oil or anything? Thanks!
(https://i.ibb.co/PGFBMvv/IMG-2361.jpg) (https://ibb.co/PGFBMvv)


Also, should I apply grease to the gear? I’m sorry if these are noob questions, I am one!
Title: Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on September 02, 2023, 09:16:18 PM
Ok distributor semi rebuilt. Stopped at that pin holding gear shaft ugh. The bike is not very worn in general so I hope this will be ok for now.

I have this gasket that came with bike, not sure how old but seems in ok condition. When I fit it on should I pre-lube it with oil or anything? Thanks!
(https://i.ibb.co/PGFBMvv/IMG-2361.jpg) (https://ibb.co/PGFBMvv)


Also, should I apply grease to the gear? I’m sorry if these are noob questions, I am one!

It's actually a gasket for an Eldo, but that seems to be the only one retail supply now. The difference is the center hole is smaller and fits better on the V700/Ambo gasket. I use a light coating of Permatex 300 to make sure it seals. Engine oil on the gear is sufficient.