Author Topic: Substitute T3 headlight rim  (Read 643 times)

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Substitute T3 headlight rim
« on: March 29, 2023, 07:58:57 PM »
I’ve found out that the T3 headlight shell can accept a T-type headlight rim.
 
Before:



After:



I just made this substitution after I lost my original headlight rim last fall. (T3 rims are wildly expensive now.) The T3 headlight bucket turns out to be a lightly modified version of the T bucket. I only had to bend back some tabs on the T3 bucket and cut away two pivots on the T rim. I also made a retainer for the top edge of the rim using a piece of brass wire passed through two holes I drilled in the bucket. I used W-clips to hold a new Bosch H4 motorcycle reflector in the rim (thanks, Charlie).
This tip may help out anyone who finds himself with a T3 bucket but no T3 rim. It’s probably slightly less trouble than replacing both the bucket and the rim with an aftermarket unit, considering the wiring inside.
My T-type rim was actually fitted as a 1979 T3 part, as sold in Europe, after the factory returned to the original type.

Exactly why Guzzi fitted the large T3 rim is a mystery to me. I imagine there was a fair degree of panic and dismay after the Pininfarina-designed 850-T was widely rejected as ordinary, and even Kawasaki-like. The big rim was the only stylistic change for the new T3. It is too big to fit the T shell so a rubber adapter was used. Some Italian cars of the same era have similar, big headlight rims. For example, this Innocenti is nothing but a Hillman wearing big rims (or so I read):



I wonder if this or some other car rim was simply adapted. If so, Aprilia did the dirty work, since its name appears on both the shell and the rim. Pure speculation, though.

Moto
« Last Edit: March 29, 2023, 08:14:37 PM by moto »
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Re: Substitute T3 headlight rim
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2023, 05:44:13 AM »
Different Aprillia from the company we are familiar with as far as I know....the issue with the later rim is that it brings the light bulb slightly further back and that can be a problem as there is so much cable in there .The original wide rim is virtually impossible to find now...but I recently got lucky ( to my wallet's great pain though ).I was looking for one for about 15 plus years...

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Re: Substitute T3 headlight rim
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2023, 09:16:40 AM »
Different Aprillia from the company we are familiar with as far as I know....the issue with the later rim is that it brings the light bulb slightly further back and that can be a problem as there is so much cable in there….
It took Guzzi until 1979 to realize they should be using the fitting at the bottom of the rear cap to route the cable to the instruments! I used a zip tie to pull the cable to the back wall of the cap, out of the way.

I had thought that the same Aprilia, like Ducati, was previously a manufacturer of motorcycle electrical components. I might have been wrong.
850 T-3
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Re: Substitute T3 headlight rim
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2023, 12:20:39 PM »
Both different companies from what I have read but not a big deal !

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Re: Substitute T3 headlight rim
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2023, 12:20:39 PM »

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Re: Substitute T3 headlight rim
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2023, 12:45:54 PM »
Both different companies from what I have read but not a big deal !

Thanks for setting me straight!

From Cycle World:

“APRILIA TRIVIA Another Italian company called Aprilia built electrical components for motorcycles, which were used extensively by nearly all the Italian manufacturers up until its demise in 1977. Naturally, the company became known as Principe delle Tenebre—Italy’s own Prince of Darkness.”

https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article/2012/4/1/aprilia-timeline
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Re: Substitute T3 headlight rim
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2023, 02:10:35 PM »
As for the Ducati side of things the electrical stuff was made and still is by these guys: https://www.ducatienergia.com/category.php?lang=en&id=8&cat=6

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Re: Substitute T3 headlight rim
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2023, 02:48:20 PM »
Ducati Energia is a parallel division with the Ducati Motor group in the larger Ducati firm. The whole thing started with electrical parts, not motorcycles. By contrast, Aprilia motorcycles may not have been an offshoot of the Aprilia parts manufacturer, at least per John Burns in Cycle World. But manufacturing myths sometimes cover up the truth, so I suppose I’m still a little doubtful about a complete independence of the two Aprilias. Not worth losing sleep over, though.
850 T-3
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Re: Substitute T3 headlight rim
« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2023, 01:12:18 PM »
Gotta ask a dumb question. I thought that the bezel, (outer ring, with it's series of sub rings and screws and springs, retaining a sealed beam lamp), was the same on a T, a T3 and a Convert. Maybe even the 850 LeMans, albeit black outer ring. I'm referring to US market bikes. All the other markets got a much simpler setup. Seems there was a different part number for the US T bucket, versus the T3 and Convert, but you could swap the ring setup between any of the 3 buckets. I suspect Guzzi changed the rings around '77 or '78, as I have a '78 T3 FB with a European headlight assembly, without the goofy contraption of a ring setup and sealed beam. So if I've got what your saying right, what you are talking about is that you can retrofit a non US market T or T3 ring to either a T or T3 bucket, with minimal modification? My main interest in this is actually for the 850 LeMans, as mine has a Major League dent in the black ring, and I'm looking for an easy swap ring that fits it's bucket. The buckets are going to be close among those models, and even if I have to scuff a chrome ring and paint it black, and do some fiddling with the bucket, it would be easier than trying to find an original LeMans black bezel.

And FWIW, I remember being told way back, that setup was due to US DOT requiring the use of sealed beam headlights, and Aprilia came up with a fix. And Mike Haven (I think) told me there was similar used on some Bavarian Manure Wagons, as they used the same rubber gasket between ring and bucket as the Guzzis did.

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Re: Substitute T3 headlight rim
« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2023, 08:58:46 AM »
Gotta ask a dumb question. I thought that the bezel, (outer ring, with it's series of sub rings and screws and springs, retaining a sealed beam lamp), was the same on a T, a T3 and a Convert. Maybe even the 850 LeMans, albeit black outer ring. I'm referring to US market bikes. All the other markets got a much simpler setup. Seems there was a different part number for the US T bucket, versus the T3 and Convert, but you could swap the ring setup between any of the 3 buckets. I suspect Guzzi changed the rings around '77 or '78, as I have a '78 T3 FB with a European headlight assembly, without the goofy contraption of a ring setup and sealed beam. So if I've got what your saying right, what you are talking about is that you can retrofit a non US market T or T3 ring to either a T or T3 bucket, with minimal modification? My main interest in this is actually for the 850 LeMans, as mine has a Major League dent in the black ring, and I'm looking for an easy swap ring that fits it's bucket. The buckets are going to be close among those models, and even if I have to scuff a chrome ring and paint it black, and do some fiddling with the bucket, it would be easier than trying to find an original LeMans black bezel.

And FWIW, I remember being told way back, that setup was due to US DOT requiring the use of sealed beam headlights, and Aprilia came up with a fix. And Mike Haven (I think) told me there was similar used on some Bavarian Manure Wagons, as they used the same rubber gasket between ring and bucket as the Guzzis did.

Question not so dumb. The simpler ring that I referred to may never have been fitted to a U.S. T, though it and the goofy ring are both in the T parts catalog. Your knowledge of history is better than mine and I expect every historical point you made is correct.

But as to the practical question, yes, you can fit the simpler ring to the T3’s bucket with only minor modifications. I only had the ring itself so I am left without any alignment mechanism. The whole simpler assembly, with pivots on the rim and reflector, would also fit with minor modifications.

EDIT: I bet there are many other simple chrome rims that would work. The inside diameter of the hole where the bulb fits is 170mm. You can examine the T3 (etc.) shell to find the other critical diameter. While doing that you can observe the raised seat that is still present to locate the back edge of the simpler ring. I’m away from home so can’t do the second measurement now.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2023, 09:09:27 AM by moto »
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Re: Substitute T3 headlight rim
« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2023, 03:06:26 PM »
Many thanks for the knowledge. I was hoping that was the case.

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