NGC - Your thoughts about Electric Power steering

[ohiorider]

I was totally out of touch with the fact that many/most car manufacturers had switched from hydraulically assisted power steering to Electric Power Steering.  Why?  Well, there's no longer a power consuming, belt driven hydraulic pump.  Some of these electric systems simply drive a hydraulic pump with an electric motor, and presumably feel like a hydraulic system.  Others use no pump at all, but provide assist to the steering rack with an electric motor - no fluid or pump required.

After owning 3 previous Mazdas over the past 26 years, I decided to lease a 2018 Mazda 6 Grand Touring (turbo.)  I absolutely hate the car's steering feedback, of lack thereof.  I've Googled dozens of different ways to try and find complaints similar to mine about Mazda's implementation of Electric Power Steering (EPS.)  No luck.  Called corporate.  "No, we haven't modified the steering software. No complaints heard here."

However, I stumbled across multiple articles bemoaning BMW's switch from hydraulic power steering to EPS, for pretty much the same complaint I have about my Mazda, ie, a very dead feeling that seems to eliminate the steering feedback every previous car has given me.  This poster on Bimmerpost summed up my issue perfectly. "The electric steering sucks, particularly on the highway. Probably wouldn't notice it as much on a racetrack. Keeping the car going in a straight line is now a major pain in the ass."

Any other forum members have issues with Electric Power Steering on their car(s?)

Bob

BTW - here's a short article about EPS you might find interesting.

https://www.tomorrowstechnician.com/diagnosing-electrical-power-steering-eps-issues/

[Ncdan]

I had a BMW Z4 with this type of steering and it's works fine until a sensor goes out:(

[Zoom Zoom]

I'm pretty sure that's what is on my Subie. I have no complaints. It seems to work fine.

John Henry

[Murray]

My understanding is the early systems were a bit ropey they latter ones have improved probablly similar to the massively over assisted stuff in the US from the late 70's and early 80's. My current drive has armstrong power steering its old slow and the paint job is described as kaki artwork. I don't drive round town too much work has a vehcile for that. I was intresting going back to armstrong steering took about three months to get used to it again, now the work ute feels really odd. As tot he ops problem I would assume that the assistance varies with speed it might be worth making sure thats working as advertised and not throwing any codes.

[Ncdan]

When mine went bad the steering wheel would turn in "notches" felt really strange. Even though the warranty had ran out they put a complete new system in it, due to the liability issue.

[Wayne Orwig]

My Mustang has an electric motor driving the rack.

There is a setting for the steering 'feel'.
The standard setting feels to me like steering always did.
The comfort setting takes away some feeling, but makes it easy to steer. Good for long trip I guess.
The sport setting gives you a bit more than normal feel. Great for spirited drives in the North Georgia mountains. After a long day, you can feel that you had to work at it a bit.

I like the way it works and feels.

Maybe it can help tune out the horrible handling of front wheel drives.



 

[LowRyter]

I have it on my '14 Accord, it's a tad light but very precise and linear.  I can't fault it.  Owning three Accord models, this is the best.

[Gusable]

I’m an ASE master that worked Toyota/Lexus for 10 years and I have owned/own 3 cars with electric racks. It’s the only way to go.  I’ve never seen a power steering pressure hose that didn’t leak eventually. On any brand!  I think I’ve already changed to electric racks in 20 years

[Muzz]

My son has a power steering and wheel alignment business, and when everything started to go electric he thought that was going to be the end of it all.  It hasn't been.

Zoom Zoom. I hate to say it but the Subie rack is (often) made out of cheese.  The pinion doesn't wear, only the rack. When they are rejected for their WOF (Warrant of Fitness) and sent in, probably three out of four can't be rebuilt due to wear in the centre position.

They have improved as the tech has progressed.  Most now seem to be putting the assist on the steering column.

Where hydraulic systems started leaking with age and seal wear, electrics wear either in the rack/pinion or mainly in the bushes on the end.  The only lube is what is put in on manufacture, and some bushes don't like running dry. Some of those bushes look like perforated cardboard.  Up until recently both manufacturers and after market places did not make replacement bushes.  He makes replacement bushes out of a high zoot plastic which tend to out perform the original if aftermarket ones are not available.

I must say notchiness is not usual.  Some Honda ones start to fail to self centre after a fair number of miles.  Someone worked out that is the cause of it was actually the grease that was used on manufacture caused the plastic gear wheel in the system to expand, causing a tightness in the system.  So far of course you can't get that gear as a spare part.

Some of the sensor settings are critical and really affect things if they go out. 

Overall, they are a very reliable system and take way less hp than a hydraulic one.
 

[stormshearon]

I just purchased a 2019 Mazda 3 Hatch in AWD with EPAS. I traded an '05 3 Hatch in on it. So far I only have a little over 200 miles on it, but I have no issues with the EPAS at all. I really like how it gives more boost at low, parking lot speeds and then firms up as the speed increases. I also like the eleimination of the hydraulic pump, hoses and the rest of the power steering gear from under the hood.

[Aaron D.]

I have maybe 500,000 miles on electric power steering. Absolutely no issues. As far as steering feel, frankly I have not been able to feel any difference.

[DougG]

Hi Fellow Beta Testers,                                                                                                                                                                                 3-24-19

It's the progress thing again.  Manufacturers are installing next generation accessories in present day autos.  Lane departure and detent, blind spot monitoring, parking assist/self park, electric steering and brakes, accident avoidance systems, wireless hot spot, heads up displays, run flat tires, etc.  All of these systems and much, much more are being incorporated into our present autos and will then be assimilated into the next generation of self-driving transports (cars, public transportation, trains, etc.).  I have a Jeep Grand Cherokee and although I did not order them, it has a bunch of the stuff I just mentioned.  It's a good thing that they are rolled out slowly.  It gives us time for legislation, insurance companies and our brains to get used to them. 

I love my old stuff, I'm going to miss it.

Be well,
DougG

[Bisbee]

Can’t comment on e- steering . All my cars are hydraulic. BTW , my 2007 BMW Z4M has hydraulic - the other Z cars had e- steering. My feeling is that the engineers threw the best that they had into that car. I suspect that it is a cost/efficiency issue. Most of the Gen X, Y, Z, etc. would never know the difference. Sadly, less than 15% of the drivers today know how to stick shift. They’re missing out on some great driving.

[xackley]

I bought a new hyundai  with electric power steering during cash for clunkers. The first 2 years the steering felt twitchy when trying to go straight. When they updated the computer for an unrelated  recall, they fixed the steering. It was a good car until a Mercedes-Benz  drove through it in the middle of the night.

[John Croucher]

I bought a Cub Cadet Commercial lawn tractor for cutting grass last year.  Love the electric power assist steering.  Two finger steering around the the yard obstacle course makes for less fatigue.  4 mph high speed maneuvers are easy to handle.  The steering wheel will continue to turn after the control arms hit the bump stop.  Causing the steering wheel not to be aligned in the center position when going straight.  Have to turn the other direction past the stop to realign.

I have never driven a car with electric assist.   

[Rick in WNY]

I understand why the auto makers are switching to electric steering. One word... mileage!

Power steering pumps are old-school fixed displacement pumps. They push the same amount of fluid each and every rotation. This produces a never-ending load on the engine. Now, if you're actively turning the steering wheel, that fluid is sent into the rack and moves things around. Once the car is going straight down the road again, that fluid has to be dumped through a relief valve and sent back to the reservoir. So for the vast majority of the time a car is being driven, the power put into the steering system is being wasted. An electric power steering system needs a trickle of power to run it's sensors and only kicks the motor on when you're actively turning the wheel. Huge difference in terms of efficiency.

If you can reduce the load on an engine, it runs easier, which means less fuel is required. Naw, I see exactly why they're doing this. That said, like any new technology, it will have its growing pains. May as well get used to it, that is the direction they're all going.

[Ryan]

The electric assist filters road feel. It is designed so when you turn the steering wheel, it senses your motion and applies assist. When the forces are coming the other way, it filters this out, hence the lack of feedback.

My Outback has electric steering, and while I have grown accustomed to the feel, I don't like it. I don't feel the cornering loads build the same way hydraulic systems felt, and after nearly e0k miles in the car, I sometimes still dial in more steering angle than I wanted. I didn't realize how poor it felt until I drove my wife's van, and found it provided much better feel.

It is the future, and they are getting better, but it is quite different.

[twowheeladdict]

I test drove a new miata with it and no complaints.

Now don't get me started on torque steer with front wheel drive cars. 

I'm glad trucks are still rear wheel drive as well as many of the sports cars.

[Wayne Orwig]

Now don't get me started on torque steer with front wheel drive cars. 

I've actually had people tell me that they prefer the handling on front wheel drive cars. I never understood that.

[Steve Scott]

Hydraulic power steering has about a 60 year head start in development. Electric will get there in time, because there are too many advantages:
1) Less parasitic drag on the engine.
2) Less weight.
3) It's a simpler sub-assembly (Not so much the hybrid systems, they are a transitional step toward full-electric anyway).

The 'feel' is certainly subjective, some folks aren't going to care. I used to drive an International tow-truck with seizing kingpins, 'Drove me insane, but the other drivers didn't care.

[Steve Scott]

I've actually had people tell me that they prefer the handling on front wheel drive cars. I never understood that.

Sure, if you use 1980's Omni-rizons or Alliance/Encores  as your FWD standard, or if you consider stoplight drags 'performance' driving. Short of where slip-angles start to enter the equation, there's no reason FWD 'feels' different from RWD. Handling problems like torque steer are the result of price-point chasing short cuts.

 I'm old enough to remember when an Austin Mini could match the lap times of a Camaro on a road course despite giving away 200HP, or when SAABs were winning rally's and giving fits to Porsches and Mustangs in IMSA endurance racing and SCCA SS racing. I still prefer a good C900 to any other road car for fast touring work. They just feel 'right' to me.

[xackley]

I've actually had people tell me that they prefer the handling on front wheel drive cars. I never understood that.

I used to like to hit the gas a little on slippery corners when my vehicles were rwd.  But front wheel drive is much more practical in the cold months.

[s1120]

I've actually had people tell me that they prefer the handling on front wheel drive cars. I never understood that.

Its what you learned to drive... Remember most people under 30 have odd are never driven a RWD car...or a standard trans..... 

[tris]

I've had 3 Skoda Octavia's all with electric power steering

The 1st 2 both did over 100,000 miles each and the latest one is at 33,000 now and I've not had an issue with any of them

Of course I've now put the mockers on this one, but its not something I think about

[lrutt]

Actually, the feedback can be programmed in with EPS. They just opted to program most of it out.

Also, with EPS, you can get a tactile reposonse through the steering wheel for lane departure etc. Our MB does that.

And lastly, for those cars that have some sort of autopilot, EPS facilitates that easily. So there are a lot of reasons beside MPG for it.

[Zoom Zoom]

My son has a power steering and wheel alignment business, and when everything started to go electric he thought that was going to be the end of it all.  It hasn't been.

Zoom Zoom. I hate to say it but the Subie rack is (often) made out of cheese.  The pinion doesn't wear, only the rack. When they are rejected for their WOF (Warrant of Fitness) and sent in, probably three out of four can't be rebuilt due to wear in the center position.

Muzz, I have heard of the Subi rack troubles although they seem to target the Legacy/Outback models. (Don't really know why since I would guess they would be very similar to an Impreza, (my car), if not the very same part.

More importantly though, is their longevity based to any degree on outside influences? I can only imagine that avoiding things that would cause sudden shock loads might be a good thing. (Poor, pot hole filled roads, etc.) I do make a respectable effort to avoid such things or slow down for things I cannot avoid, at least when possible.

Bob, sorry for the side track but I'm curious.

John Henry

[ohiorider]

John, I'm glad to see the thread continuing .... so thanks!  I get nothing from Mazda indicating they can alter the steering map, or configure the steering to make it feel more like the hydraulic system all my previous cars with power steering used.  I've about worn out my
Google search engine looking for someone else who has experienced the problem and arrived at a solution.

See you on the road soon!

Bob

[s1120]

John, I'm glad to see the thread continuing .... so thanks!  I get nothing from Mazda indicating they can alter the steering map, or configure the steering to make it feel more like the hydraulic system all my previous cars with power steering used.  I've about worn out my
Google search engine looking for someone else who has experienced the problem and arrived at a solution.

See you on the road soon!

Bob

I worked for mazda at the dealer level for almost 25 year up till last spring. At that time there was no adjustablity bilt in to the softwere, but there had been updates over the years to alter the feel of the system..  so no, you cant adjust it for what you want, but the softwere can be adapted... just not at the personal, or dealer level.

[Tusayan]

I've about worn out my
Google search engine looking for someone else who has experienced the problem and arrived at a solution.

FWIW my experiences driving Mazdas built over the last couple of years have all included noting excellent steering feel, and I’m fussy.