Mystery metal particle in drained oil. (Mystery Solved)

[voncrump]

This little flake of metal appeared in my oil drain tray after an oil change on my 1100 sport. It sticks to a magnet and it has a dull side and a shiny side. It seems to have a large 80 to 100mm radius in the formed bend. The thing is it may have come from another source as the drain tray is stored on a shelf with lots of other rubbish.









The engine oil was drained into the tray and the last dribbles of gearbox oil went in as well so it could have come from the engine, gearbox or from another source.
Cheers, voncrump

[JJ]

Looks like one of those metal pieces that ALIENS insert into humans!! (LOL) 

[twowings]

You've been probed...

[oldbike54]

You've been probed...

 Vegaed ?

 Dusty

[RinkRat II]

 Veeeeery Interesting....... Curious of how hard it is. Will it scratch with a file and if so , soft like bearing material or hard like a washer? 

     Paul B

[Penderic]

Calls for microscopic surface wear analysis!



 

[voncrump]

It is hard with a hammered pattern on one side. I first thought it might be the very end of a valve Spring but it's not the right shape. It is almost like a piece of reflector plating from a lense or a bulb but it does stick to a magnet. I have gone through all of the engine parts in the parts manual looking for a clue.
I don't think it is from a rotating component and it doesn't look like it has been hot. The polished pattern looks like a loading and unloading wear so I might have a look at the valve and Spring area.
Cheers, voncrump

[Dofin]

I found metal flakes when I did the second oil change 6K (first done by dealer).  When I changed the engine oil the third time I installed a extender plate in the oil pan.  In the bottom of the oil pan I found some machining left overs, tiny spring looking things and some chips.  Sloppy job in manufacturing the 2015 V7.  My first oil change gave me some worries (metal flakes) but the forum gave me some comfort.

I am just guessing but your Guzzi might be an older one, still if you haven't remove the oil pan you might still be getting metal pieces from the manufacturing process??

[fotoguzzi]

I am just guessing but your Guzzi might be an older one, still if you haven't remove the oil pan you might still be getting metal pieces from the manufacturing process??

good point, drop the sump and look around for other stuff.. can you get a magnetic plug?

[voncrump]

More info.

I found metal flakes when I did the second oil change 6K (first done by dealer).  When I changed the engine oil the third time I installed a extender plate in the oil pan.  In the bottom of the oil pan I found some machining left overs, tiny spring looking things and some chips.  Sloppy job in manufacturing the 2015 V7.  My first oil change gave me some worries (metal flakes) but the forum gave me some comfort.

I am just guessing but your Guzzi might be an older one, still if you haven't remove the oil pan you might still be getting metal pieces from the manufacturing process??

I have changed the oil many times on this bike. 10 - 12 times, every second change I drop the sump and change the filter.
It has always been clean in the sump. I may have to bite the bullet and drop the sump and remove the rocker covers and have a look.
Cheers, voncrump

[pete roper]

If it's a carb sport it's probably a flake of third or the primaries. Fragile gearbox.

Pete

[voncrump]

Yep, Carb sport, 2 track days and a lot of hammering since last gear oil change. The flake looks a little narrow (4mm) to be a slice off a tooth but that is what it looks like.
Cheers, voncrump

[nbags]

i would change oil again,drop pan and check for metal if ok cut filter inspect inside filter and get oil sample send to to get analyzed about $20 thru napa.

[Rough Edge racing]

 It does look like a chip from a gear......

[boatdetective]

If it was from a gear tooth- that would be "case crushing". Essentially, the hardened outer case would be flaking off the tooth. This never ends well. Once the ductile core of the tooth is exposed, the tooth will fracture and break off. The broken teeth are not subtle and should fall to the bottom of the pan.

Case crushing can be a defective (too thick) hardened case- or it can be related to a violent event (abrupt stoppage of the drive train). 

Typically, gear teeth will wear with a  pattern of tiny micropits on the pressure face of the teeth. They extend up the flank of a tooth in a V pattern. This will not produce flakes like what you see here. 

If you are suitably worried- drop the pan and see what you find.  I would probably add some lighter solvent to the oil in the bottom of the pan to thin the oil out, then drain it all onto a paper towel to act as filter paper.

[rocker59]

I say button it up and ride it.  Ride it hard.

In 5,000 miles change the oil, again, and see if there are any metal bits.

There may be.  There may not be. 

Button it up and ride it another 5,000 miles.  Ride it hard.

Sport 1100s like it that way.

[Rough Edge racing]

If it was from a gear tooth- that would be "case crushing". Essentially, the hardened outer case would be flaking off the tooth. This never ends well. Once the ductile core of the tooth is exposed, the tooth will fracture and break off. The broken teeth are not subtle and should fall to the bottom of the pan.

Case crushing can be a defective (too thick) hardened case- or it can be related to a violent event (abrupt stoppage of the drive train). 

Typically, gear teeth will wear with a  pattern of tiny micropits on the pressure face of the teeth. They extend up the flank of a tooth in a V pattern. This will not produce flakes like what you see here. 

If you are suitably worried- drop the pan and see what you find.  I would probably add some lighter solvent to the oil in the bottom of the pan to thin the oil out, then drain it all onto a paper towel to act as filter paper.

 I agree based on my experience with vehicle and Triumph bike transmissons...Not if the gear tooth will break, it's when...And a broken tooth can get lodged between the gears and jack the gear shafts, causing a lock up or even split the case...
 Of course I might be totally wrong because I don't have real life experience on Guzzi transmissions...it's a judgement call I suppose...

[mtiberio]

looks like a piece of a lifter face. epidemic with modern non-zinc oils. Pull your jugs and take a peek at your lifters (or just look at them when oil pan off).

[voncrump]

What I forgot to mention in my original post was that the gearbox magnet had minimal build up. No discernible metal flakes like the piece I found.
I have had a fish around the sump with a long magnet and nothing was found.
At this stage I am going to continue to ride it as everything is running smoothly and quietly. Well as quietly as a carb sport can.
Cheers,voncrump

[sidecarnutz]

I have to agree with RER. Chip or flake off a gear face IME.

[Chuck in Indiana]

Cane the tits off it. They like it..  Don't worry, be happy, etc. You'll find out soon enough what it is.
I'm thinking lifter part, too.. but that's just a guess. Knowing how I am, I'd probably be looking, though.. <shrug> Not knowing would drive me crazy (ier).

[Dofin]

Blackstone labs, on line.  If you do ride your bike more, get the free sample package, when you change oil get it checked for stuff.  Its cheap and will let you know where your problem lies.  Instructions are very clear and it is really good piece of mind kinda stuff.  Dofin

[Chuck in Indiana]

I found this bad boy in the oil pan of the Mighty Scura the first time I changed the oil. That was a long time ago.. Pete said it was a spare bit, IIRC..
1-155 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr

[Muzz]

If it was from a gear tooth- that would be "case crushing". Essentially, the hardened outer case would be flaking off the tooth. This never ends well.

He's right. Trust me. I are a doctor....

[voncrump]

Righto, just to confuse things further I found another mystery flake. this time it was well away from where I changed the oil. I am starting to consider the Alien theory from earlier responses.





This picture is the two flakes next to each other. They are obviously from the same source. I noticed a sparkle on the mat near my work bench and found the second flake.
It looks like wherever they came from it is not from the oil. Time will tell.
Cheers, voncrump

[Chuck in Indiana]

 

[pete roper]

I blame it on the Welsh...

[oldbike54]

I blame it on the Welsh...

When did they start growing herb 

 Dusty

[balvenie]

Dear Mr. voncrump,
Please stop and think for a moment
Have you been putting out a saucer of whiskey for the leprechauns lately

[LowRyter]

I found this bad boy in the oil pan of the Mighty Scura the first time I changed the oil. That was a long time ago.. Pete said it was a spare bit, IIRC..
1-155 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr

That's why you shouldn't wear cuff-links when you service your bike.