Author Topic: Troubles while traveling  (Read 1279 times)

Online bmc5733946

  • Gaggle Mentor
  • ****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 687
  • Location: East Lansing, MI
Troubles while traveling
« on: May 19, 2022, 04:19:44 PM »

I'm on a long trip, about 1500 of over 2000 miles in. Bike runs intermittently one one cylinder, can't say which one. Thought I had gotten some bad gas yesterday, that, however, does not account for the single cylindering. It is not consistent enough to diagnose at idle. The bike is still on points. Bought a gas can to remove the gas and check pet cock screens, they're clean. In the 80s here and no shade. May try points later. It stutters then quits running on one cylinder then suddenly it returns to running normally.  It is disconcerting to have either happening while cornering at 20 - 30 mph. Yes, the roads have been that nice. Along the Missouri River on MO94 and along the Mississippi on MO79 (The Great River Road, old version). In Hannibal MO now, leaving in morning for Oquakwa IL for the Illinois rally.
All suggestions considered, got any??

Brian
1989 MILLE GT 
2004 BREVA 750     
1975  Convert

Offline ray bear

  • Gosling
  • ***
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 235
  • Location: South Australia
Re: Troubles while traveling
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2022, 04:43:39 PM »
 bad plug, points gap too close , HT lead
73 V7 sport
73 Eldo police special
68 BSA rocket 3
74 Norton Commando
78 Honda CBX 1000
47 HRD vincent Rapide
XT 500 Yamaha
76 Convert
84 FLHX limited edition electra glide

Offline Vagrant

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 1788
  • Location: Gainesville, Ga or Green Valley Az.
Re: Troubles while traveling
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2022, 04:57:01 PM »
It sure would be nice to know what bike and what's been done in the past.
The first thing is, have the spark plug caps been upgraded? The Mille I owned would misfire if somebody sneezed the next county over. Pull the plugs and see what they tell you.
HE IS FREE WHO LIVES AS HE CHOOSES
2001 EV, 2017 V7-III Blue special, 2022 V85 the fast red one! 2016 650 Versys
L-196, L-197

Online fotoguzzi

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 19557
  • vee git tooh soon oldt und too late wise -my Dad
Re: Troubles while traveling
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2022, 04:59:44 PM »
What was said above > plug caps or HT leads, maybe coil?
MINNEAPOLIS, MN

Wildgoose Chase Moto Guzzi

Re: Troubles while traveling
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2022, 04:59:44 PM »

Online bmc5733946

  • Gaggle Mentor
  • ****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 687
  • Location: East Lansing, MI
Re: Troubles while traveling
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2022, 05:24:52 PM »
I'm very sorry 😞, the bike is a 1989 Mille. I've owned the bike 30 years and had very few issues, the ones I've had have been mostly of my own making. I have found some spark plugs locally and replaced them just now. These plugs are resistor plugs, the ones coming out were not. Plug caps are LB05F which are resistor caps, shouldn't make a difference. I personally have carped on and on about the plug caps and their seeming flaws. I usually carry a spare set of new ones and new plugs too, checked my top secret stash hole (the tail piece box) everything contained therein is used and therefore questionable and suspect! I did find some plugs that look like platinum plugs to me, suffix GP? We'll try the new plugs tomorrow,  fingers crossed. I have never encountered a plug that works and then doesn't which is what's going on or points or condenser for that matter, coil maybe. I'm ready to be schooled. I tried to check the plug caps but the, battery in my traveling DVOM was dead, got a new battery for it at the auto parts store where I got the plugs. I bought 4 plugs just in case.

Brian
« Last Edit: May 19, 2022, 10:05:31 PM by bmc5733946 »
1989 MILLE GT 
2004 BREVA 750     
1975  Convert

Online Guzzidad

  • Gaggle Mentor
  • ****
  • Posts: 756
  • Location: Tampa, FL
Re: Troubles while traveling
« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2022, 05:33:37 PM »
  My guess is condenser. Cheap and easy to replace.

Offline Kiwi_Roy

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 9661
  • Location: New Westminster BC
Re: Troubles while traveling
« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2022, 07:18:29 PM »
I can't find a schematic for a 1989 Mille I wanted to find the spark arrangement.
A/ Is it one coil, a distributor and a common condenser and just one set of points
B/ a pair of coils, no distributor with 2 condensers, (for this configuration you should be able to measure Ohms from the plug cap to chassis through the resistor, HT cable and coil secondary ~ 8,000 Ohms, but same on both sides)
C/ Points with an electronic module or just a bare coil?
What type of HT cable is used, I have seen the cable that uses a carbon core let go at the ends as the carbon burns back up the wire, I had this happen on my 89 EV caused one cylinder to cut out under acceleration.  On that note do you lose a cylinder under acceleration or does it cut any time
« Last Edit: May 19, 2022, 07:19:07 PM by Kiwi_Roy »
72 Eldorado
17 V7iii Special
76 Convert
Half a V9 Roamer

Moto Guzzi - making electricians out of riders since March 15 1921

Online Huzo

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 11521
  • Location: Creswick Australia
Re: Troubles while traveling
« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2022, 07:28:04 PM »
When it drops onto one, try to keep doing whatever you need to keep it failing.
30 seconds will give enough temp difference to know which one you’ve dropped.
You won’t be able put your hand on the live one, but the dead one will be touchable for a few seconds.
If you can determine which cylinder, you have dramatically reduced the possible causes.

Offline PJPR01

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 3791
  • Norge, Scura, Griso
  • Location: Houston, Texas
Re: Troubles while traveling
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2022, 09:51:59 PM »
I got some bad gas in Oklahoma a few days ago coming back from Kansas, and the bike was sputtering and missing for about an hour.  I added a bottle of gas treatment and instantly the bike returned to normal.  May be worthwhile to try fresh gas or some gas treatment if it just started happening shortly after tanking up.
Paul R
2015 Red/Black Griso
2008 Silver Norge
2002 V11 Scura

Online bmc5733946

  • Gaggle Mentor
  • ****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 687
  • Location: East Lansing, MI
Re: Troubles while traveling
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2022, 10:11:21 PM »
I put 4 ounces of Heet gas line anti freeze it it yesterday to no effect. I only rode it a few miles after adding the Heet, may not have been enough. Spark plugs are new now. We'll find out tomorrow how she is.

Thanks for the suggestions!

Brian
1989 MILLE GT 
2004 BREVA 750     
1975  Convert

Offline nc43bsa

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 1221
  • Location: Mooresville NC
Re: Troubles while traveling
« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2022, 11:04:06 PM »
My Mille had a failing coil that would run normally until the coil got hot (about 20 miles.)  Then it would drop the cylinder at idle, picking back up above 1500 rpm.  As the situation got worse, the rpm when it would pick up the cylinder went up to 2000, sometimes higher.  Even then, it ran fine at cruising speed.  I got stuck in stop-and-go traffic once and had to pull off the road to let it cool off because it was running on one cylinder so much.  Naturally, when I was attempting to diagnose the problem, it cooled off to the point where it didn't misfire. 

While it was hot, I determined which side it was by pulling one of the wires off the spark plug, then swapping coils side-to-side to verify the problem also switched sides.  Fortunately, I had an OEM coil in a box of parts I picked up at the Daytona Vintage Swap Meet many years ago.
1990 MilleGT

Online bmc5733946

  • Gaggle Mentor
  • ****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 687
  • Location: East Lansing, MI
Re: Troubles while traveling
« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2022, 11:12:22 PM »
Well with a new battery in the DVOM, I found an open plug cap and one with high resistance! Checked the ones from my top secret stash and both were good so on they went. Tomorrow tells the tale!

Thanks for the suggestions!

Brian
« Last Edit: May 19, 2022, 11:13:17 PM by bmc5733946 »
1989 MILLE GT 
2004 BREVA 750     
1975  Convert

Offline Kiwi_Roy

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 9661
  • Location: New Westminster BC
Re: Troubles while traveling
« Reply #12 on: May 20, 2022, 06:06:49 AM »
Well with a new battery in the DVOM, I found an open plug cap and one with high resistance! Checked the ones from my top secret stash and both were good so on they went. Tomorrow tells the tale!

Thanks for the suggestions!

Brian
Do you have copper wire leads or the nasty carbon core resistor wire?
The resistor wire on my EV had burnt back about 1/2 inch so I shortened it back until it made contact but replaced it with copper at the first opportunity,
Do not change condensers unless you have some originals, the ones from the orient are questionable, BTDT
Did you make it to the rally?
« Last Edit: May 20, 2022, 06:29:38 AM by Kiwi_Roy »
72 Eldorado
17 V7iii Special
76 Convert
Half a V9 Roamer

Moto Guzzi - making electricians out of riders since March 15 1921

Online chuck peterson

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 4833
  • Location: New Haven CT
Re: Troubles while traveling
« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2022, 06:48:33 AM »
Points gap..gazing at a crystal ball from 2000 miles away

Good luck!

My 2nd WAG is a coil working at cooler temps, overheating and not working after warm up…any cracks around the leads?
"I'd like to thank all my friends who have kept my Guzzi's going, but mostly...TOMB."
150k on Verts
750 Nevada
400f
R5 Yammie
BV250
4x 1976 Moto Demm Smily,, now 5, oops now 6, oops now 7
1980 SP1000 in little bits and pieces

Offline guzzisteve

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 10520
  • "Just Ride It"
Re: Troubles while traveling
« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2022, 08:55:31 AM »
Stay dry, front coming across there this AM.  I had an issue w/Cal2 would cut out every time I went over 60mph, slow down it'd come back on. It was the float needle shutting off the fuel. Worn pin let's it extend. Put in next size larger fixes it.
"Pray through Carlo & your bike shall be healed"
Location: Planet Earth

Online blackcat

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 8483
  • Location: USA
Re: Troubles while traveling
« Reply #15 on: May 20, 2022, 09:02:55 AM »
Stay dry, front coming across there this AM.  I had an issue w/Cal2 would cut out every time I went over 60mph, slow down it'd come back on. It was the float needle shutting off the fuel. Worn pin let's it extend. Put in next size larger fixes it.

Wow, did it take you long to figure that one out?
1968 Norton Fastback
1976 Lemans
1981 CX-100
1993 1000S
1997 Daytona RS
2007 Red Norge

Offline jcctx

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1427
  • Location: Parker, Collin Cty., TX
Re: Troubles while traveling
« Reply #16 on: May 20, 2022, 10:33:52 AM »
A float valve sticking closed; had a Kawi do that on me and drove me NUTS!!!

Offline yogidozer

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2924
Re: Troubles while traveling
« Reply #17 on: May 20, 2022, 10:49:41 AM »
Points gap..gazing at a crystal ball from 2000 miles away

Good luck!

My 2nd WAG is a coil working at cooler temps, overheating and not working after warm up…any cracks around the leads?
Chuck, way back a lifetime ago, on our camping trip in New Hampshire, you had the same issue with your Vert, remember??
Condenser.



Offline guzzisteve

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 10520
  • "Just Ride It"
Re: Troubles while traveling
« Reply #18 on: May 20, 2022, 01:23:49 PM »
Wow, did it take you long to figure that one out?
Yes, I replaced the Dyna3 with a spare. I compared a new one I had & saw the pin and lil spring were longer and pin looked worn.
I'm still using that same Dyna from 89 the original I sold to someone. My sidecar was the toolbox out of my Jeep Pickup.
"Pray through Carlo & your bike shall be healed"
Location: Planet Earth

Online bmc5733946

  • Gaggle Mentor
  • ****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 687
  • Location: East Lansing, MI
Re: Troubles while traveling
« Reply #19 on: May 20, 2022, 05:35:50 PM »
Well this misadventure is coming to a somewhat sad conclusion. I changed one condenser, the harder one to get to, both carbs off, airbox out etc., etc. Rode a little farther running worse and worse, tried to change other condenser, dropped the little screw 5 times found again 4 times. Called for a wrecker. Dropped the bike while getting it to a better spot to load on wrecker. Called my buddy Rod to go over to the house and make sure Kim had the trailer connected right. Turns out Rod is in Missouri with his motorcycle on a trailer and possibly room for one more. Illinois rally won't be happening for me. Everything has turned out as well as can be expected. Too hot, no shade, I'm done in for now. Towed to nice hotel, Rod here in a couple hours. I am blessed with good friends both here and in meatspace. Thank you all for your care and concern.

Brian
1989 MILLE GT 
2004 BREVA 750     
1975  Convert

bobrebos

  • Guest
Re: Troubles while traveling
« Reply #20 on: May 20, 2022, 05:43:25 PM »
Well this misadventure is coming to a somewhat sad conclusion. I changed one condenser, the harder one to get to, both carbs off, airbox out etc., etc. Rode a little farther running worse and worse, tried to change other condenser, dropped the little screw 5 times found again 4 times. Called for a wrecker. Dropped the bike while getting it to a better spot to load on wrecker. Called my buddy Rod to go over to the house and make sure Kim had the trailer connected right. Turns out Rod is in Missouri with his motorcycle on a trailer and possibly room for one more. Illinois rally won't be happening for me. Everything has turned out as well as can be expected. Too hot, no shade, I'm done in for now. Towed to nice hotel, Rod here in a couple hours. I am blessed with good friends both here and in meatspace. Thank you all for your care and concern.

Brian

Sorry to hear of the end result.  I have broke down more on my 2013 Stelvio lately than I ever did on my 2002 Stone or goldwing or 1972 Honda Cb 750 chopper.  It is disheartening!  All the best for better riding days ahead!

Online Huzo

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 11521
  • Location: Creswick Australia
Re: Troubles while traveling
« Reply #21 on: May 20, 2022, 07:16:23 PM »
I’d put a piece of strong cord around each plug cap and go for a ride.
When it staggers, rip the left plug off. If it runs on the right side and staggers, the problem is on the right side.
If it pulls cleanly, the problem is on the left.
You have immediately halved the possible sources. All very ancient Roman, but it’ll point you in the right direction.
Then reverse the inputs to the coils and cross the plug leads. If the problem changes sides it’s the coil.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2022, 12:54:45 PM by Huzo »

Offline lucky

  • New Egg
  • *
  • Posts: 40
Re: Troubles while traveling
« Reply #22 on: May 21, 2022, 06:56:51 AM »
I had an '89 Mille which had the same problem.  It turned out it was a failing coil. My local Guzzi dealer couldn't source one any time soon so I turned to the internet and searched for a replacement.
I don't have the details but I found the item listed by some Italian only speaking back street supplier somewhere in Italy.  I spoke on the phone with someone in the office who had some English and they sent me the replacement part which they had in stock.  Problem solved.
Sorry I don't have more details but this all happened over ten years ago.

Online bmc5733946

  • Gaggle Mentor
  • ****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 687
  • Location: East Lansing, MI
Re: Troubles while traveling
« Reply #23 on: May 22, 2022, 06:31:32 PM »
I am home safe and sound as of 5pm EST. I have had a great adventure! More about bike later in the week or next.

Brian
1989 MILLE GT 
2004 BREVA 750     
1975  Convert

Offline leroysch

  • Gosling
  • ***
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 313
  • Location: Neosho, MO
Re: Troubles while traveling
« Reply #24 on: May 22, 2022, 06:52:38 PM »
 :thumb:
'88 FLST
'95 Ducati 916
'04 V11 LeMans
'06 FLHX
'09 Buell 1125R
'17 BMW R Nine T
'19 H2 SX SE+
'22 Pan America

Online Chuck in Indiana

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 29079
Re: Troubles while traveling
« Reply #25 on: May 23, 2022, 05:08:00 PM »
I had a coil eating SP back in the day. Put putted out of the Badlands and to a rest area on the interstate on one cylinder. No fixie. Used a pay phone.. remember them?  :grin: to get a tow to a BMW dealer. The airhead coils are the same.. They didn't work on Guzzis, or old airheads, and didn't have any coils.  :rolleyes:
I'll stop now, but the story went on for a while. What I *did* find is I had to run a dedicated wire from the points to the coil..although that doesn't sound like your problem.
Glad you made it back, Brian. You will no doubt remember this trip, and after all memories are what it is about.  :smiley:
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal
 
87 AeroLario
95 Skorpion tour
 "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
Albert Einstein

Online bmc5733946

  • Gaggle Mentor
  • ****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 687
  • Location: East Lansing, MI
Re: Troubles while traveling
« Reply #26 on: May 23, 2022, 06:28:45 PM »
I am keeping a positive attitude about this because to do otherwise would be counterproductive for me. I am by nature an optimistic realist, nothing to be done? put your best face on and go about your business till all is right! I've owned this bike for 30 yrs, first time I've been let down. If, mind you, if, this could have been foreseen then maybe there would be some blame to spread around. No one else has ever put a wrench on this bike, I was serviceing it for the owner before I bought it. It is still a low mileage Moto Guzzi, just over 36,000 miles. It has a long life ahead with me or without me. I probably should have checked it better before I left but I still would not have found anything, in all likelihood. It did stutter a few times well before my recognizing there truly was an issue, seemed fuel related so I spent my time and effort on those issues before the final stoppage. Then the heat of the day and my failure to properly hydrate myself left me a fumble fingered, not very smart, technician.  I am also grateful that my friend was available to rescue me and allow me to continue/commence another adventure!

Brian
1989 MILLE GT 
2004 BREVA 750     
1975  Convert

Offline redrider90

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 2450
  • Location: NC
Re: Troubles while traveling
« Reply #27 on: May 23, 2022, 09:03:21 PM »
My Mille had a failing coil that would run normally until the coil got hot (about 20 miles.)  Then it would drop the cylinder at idle, picking back up above 1500 rpm.  As the situation got worse, the rpm when it would pick up the cylinder went up to 2000, sometimes higher.  Even then, it ran fine at cruising speed.  I got stuck in stop-and-go traffic once and had to pull off the road to let it cool off because it was running on one cylinder so much.  Naturally, when I was attempting to diagnose the problem, it cooled off to the point where it didn't misfire. 

While it was hot, I determined which side it was by pulling one of the wires off the spark plug, then swapping coils side-to-side to verify the problem also switched sides.  Fortunately, I had an OEM coil in a box of parts I picked up at the Daytona Vintage Swap Meet many years ago.

Gotta bump this one on the bad coils. My stock 90 Mille coils with the MotoPlat ignition were not good performers.
Red 90 Mille GT

Online chuck peterson

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 4833
  • Location: New Haven CT
Re: Troubles while traveling
« Reply #28 on: May 24, 2022, 06:55:24 AM »
I am keeping a positive attitude about this because to do otherwise would be counterproductive for me. I am by nature an optimistic realist, nothing to be done? put your best face on and go about your business till all is right! I've owned this bike for 30 yrs, first time I've been let down. If, mind you, if, this could have been foreseen then maybe there would be some blame to spread around. No one else has ever put a wrench on this bike, I was serviceing it for the owner before I bought it. It is still a low mileage Moto Guzzi, just over 36,000 miles. It has a long life ahead with me or without me. I probably should have checked it better before I left but I still would not have found anything, in all likelihood. It did stutter a few times well before my recognizing there truly was an issue, seemed fuel related so I spent my time and effort on those issues before the final stoppage. Then the heat of the day and my failure to properly hydrate myself left me a fumble fingered, not very smart, technician.  I am also grateful that my friend was available to rescue me and allow me to continue/commence another adventure!

Brian

Been there done that…glad your home safe
"I'd like to thank all my friends who have kept my Guzzi's going, but mostly...TOMB."
150k on Verts
750 Nevada
400f
R5 Yammie
BV250
4x 1976 Moto Demm Smily,, now 5, oops now 6, oops now 7
1980 SP1000 in little bits and pieces

Online bmc5733946

  • Gaggle Mentor
  • ****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 687
  • Location: East Lansing, MI
Re: Troubles while traveling
« Reply #29 on: August 01, 2022, 12:57:42 PM »
Coming back to this to report further. Guzzi Steve may have won the day!! Needle in right carb has come apart, the little pin is no longer attached to the valve. I think that may have been the problem all along. Once we were home I went ahead and replaced the coils, wires, caps and plugs just on general principle,  ran great on my small test tank in shop. Rolled it around front to the garage and put on the tank, test fired and now running on one again. It took me a long while to decide I wanted to get it running again so it sat and sat and sat, checked today no fuel in bowl, pulled carb and found the reason. Little pin that drives inlet needle valve was no longer attached to needle valve. I think running down the road vibration was allowing some fuel past at times or the pin jammed in the valve everyone in a while. Anywho that's my story and I'm sticking to it until I learn otherwise.
As always I truly appreciate all the interest and assistance! Thanks folks!

Brian

As a side note, does anyone make a solid float needle valve for this issue??
« Last Edit: August 01, 2022, 01:07:29 PM by bmc5733946 »
1989 MILLE GT 
2004 BREVA 750     
1975  Convert


Harper's Moto Guzzi : Go Ride , Break Parts, Call me!
Harper's Moto Guzzi. Where we still answer the phone, use the highest quality parts, and also do Transmission, rear drive, and carb rebuilds fast. Call us at 816.697.3411 and get your problems resolved.
http://www.harpermoto.com
Advertise Here
 

20 Ounce Stainless Steel Double Insulated Tumbler with donation credit
Buy a quality tumbler and support the forum at the same time!
Better than a YETI! BPA and Lead free.
Advertise Here