Author Topic: 1976 Lemans Project  (Read 12069 times)

Offline Don G

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 870
  • Location: Smiley, Saskatchewan Canada
Re: 1976 Lemans Project
« Reply #150 on: July 23, 2020, 04:44:24 PM »
Warm the housing good and bang her down on a block of wood, that inner race will just fall out, careful of where you are banging on make sure there is some meat there, and I dont mean yer finger!  DonG
« Last Edit: July 23, 2020, 04:46:13 PM by Don G »

Online blackcat

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 7775
Re: 1976 Lemans Project
« Reply #151 on: July 24, 2020, 06:08:28 PM »
Warm the housing good and bang her down on a block of wood, that inner race will just fall out, careful of where you are banging on make sure there is some meat there, and I dont mean yer finger!  DonG

So, stick it in the oven until it gets up to 250 degrees and then slam it down on a block of wood.  And the small seal comes with it or does it melt to the side of the drive? Looks like there is a brass piece in there too

And if I don't heat it up:
I was looking at the two arm pulls from Harbor Freight and the space in side to pull out that seal. I assume there is something for the pull to grab onto but it seems very tight.

This puller looks like it might work for the inner race and the seal:
https://www.harborfreight.com/3-jaw-pilot-bearing-puller-4876.html
L.A.,Floriduh/NYC
boom shakalaka
http://youtu.be/wHUP527txeg

1968 Norton Fastback
1976 Lemans
1981 CX-100
1993 1000S
1997 Daytona RS
2007 Red Norge

Offline Antietam Classic Cycle

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 12081
  • Happily stuck in the past.
    • Antietam Classic Cycle
  • Location: Rohrersville, Maryland
Re: 1976 Lemans Project
« Reply #152 on: July 24, 2020, 07:36:37 PM »
So, stick it in the oven until it gets up to 250 degrees and then slam it down on a block of wood.  And the small seal comes with it or does it melt to the side of the drive? Looks like there is a brass piece in there too

And if I don't heat it up:
I was looking at the two arm pulls from Harbor Freight and the space in side to pull out that seal. I assume there is something for the pull to grab onto but it seems very tight.

This puller looks like it might work for the inner race and the seal:
https://www.harborfreight.com/3-jaw-pilot-bearing-puller-4876.html

Usually at ~ 200*F the outer race will fall out unless someone has applied bearing retainer. The thrust washer will come out with it, but the seal will need to be levered out - I use a large flat-blade screwdriver inserted under the seal and twisted to pop it out.

I have one of those pullers and was never successful using it to remove the outer race, not that it's really needed once the housing is heated.
Charlie
http://www.AntietamClassicCycle.com
'69 V700
'69 Ambassador
'71 Ambassador
'73 Eldorado
'74 850-T
'76 Convert
'77 Morini 3 1/2 Strada
'81 Ducati 500SL Pantah
'82 V50 III

Online blackcat

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 7775
Re: 1976 Lemans Project
« Reply #153 on: July 25, 2020, 08:42:51 AM »
Usually at ~ 200*F the outer race will fall out unless someone has applied bearing retainer. The thrust washer will come out with it, but the seal will need to be levered out - I use a large flat-blade screwdriver inserted under the seal and twisted to pop it out.

I have one of those pullers and was never successful using it to remove the outer race, not that it's really needed once the housing is heated.

Thanks Charley, going to give it a try this morning. Do you usually replace the needle bearing?
L.A.,Floriduh/NYC
boom shakalaka
http://youtu.be/wHUP527txeg

1968 Norton Fastback
1976 Lemans
1981 CX-100
1993 1000S
1997 Daytona RS
2007 Red Norge

Wildgoose Chase Moto Guzzi

Re: 1976 Lemans Project
« Reply #153 on: July 25, 2020, 08:42:51 AM »

Online blackcat

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 7775
Re: 1976 Lemans Project
« Reply #154 on: July 25, 2020, 11:22:42 AM »
I got the grille started, put some tinfoil down on top of the grate and placed the drive in there face down, at exactly 200 degrees I heard it fall out.


The seal fell apart and it looks like the metal edge is still in there and I'm reluctant to stick a screwdriver in there to pry it out. Should I stick it back in the oven and maybe it will pop out too? Also, is there a way to remove the spacer in the middle for easier access to set the new seal?

Is heating the hub up an option to remove the race? I will need a two jaw puller from HF to get that race off and I assume the puller will have to be ground down to catch the lip of the race. https://www.harborfreight.com/3-piece-two-jaw-puller-set-40966.html

« Last Edit: July 25, 2020, 11:52:53 AM by blackcat »
L.A.,Floriduh/NYC
boom shakalaka
http://youtu.be/wHUP527txeg

1968 Norton Fastback
1976 Lemans
1981 CX-100
1993 1000S
1997 Daytona RS
2007 Red Norge

Offline Antietam Classic Cycle

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 12081
  • Happily stuck in the past.
    • Antietam Classic Cycle
  • Location: Rohrersville, Maryland
Re: 1976 Lemans Project
« Reply #155 on: July 25, 2020, 03:12:36 PM »
I got the grille started, put some tinfoil down on top of the grate and placed the drive in there face down, at exactly 200 degrees I heard it fall out.


The seal fell apart and it looks like the metal edge is still in there and I'm reluctant to stick a screwdriver in there to pry it out. Should I stick it back in the oven and maybe it will pop out too? Also, is there a way to remove the spacer in the middle for easier access to set the new seal?

Is heating the hub up an option to remove the race? I will need a two jaw puller from HF to get that race off and I assume the puller will have to be ground down to catch the lip of the race. https://www.harborfreight.com/3-piece-two-jaw-puller-set-40966.html



I've never had the seal fall out even when using more heat, it will need to be pryed out. I forgot to mention removing the spacer - sometimes it will fall out once the housing is heated. Best to drive it out with an appropriate sized socket or similar while the housing is warm, but it can be done cold.

Unless you're replacing the bearing, there's no need to remove the inner race. Heating the hub will make it harder to remove. If you can heat the race only (heat gun or propane torch) it might help. I use a bearing separator of this type to remove it and usually don't heat it unless someone has used bearing retainer.



 
Charlie
http://www.AntietamClassicCycle.com
'69 V700
'69 Ambassador
'71 Ambassador
'73 Eldorado
'74 850-T
'76 Convert
'77 Morini 3 1/2 Strada
'81 Ducati 500SL Pantah
'82 V50 III

Online blackcat

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 7775
Re: 1976 Lemans Project
« Reply #156 on: July 25, 2020, 04:17:39 PM »
Drive the spacer out from the outside of the rear drive after I heat it up? 

I was looking at the bearing separator at HF when I was buying those two jaw pullers, guess I'll take them back and get the bearing separator.  Will I have to replace the race on the hub or can I re-use the same one for the new hub?

Edit: OK, I got the spacer and the old race out.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2020, 04:39:58 PM by blackcat »
L.A.,Floriduh/NYC
boom shakalaka
http://youtu.be/wHUP527txeg

1968 Norton Fastback
1976 Lemans
1981 CX-100
1993 1000S
1997 Daytona RS
2007 Red Norge

Offline Antietam Classic Cycle

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 12081
  • Happily stuck in the past.
    • Antietam Classic Cycle
  • Location: Rohrersville, Maryland
Re: 1976 Lemans Project
« Reply #157 on: July 25, 2020, 06:13:28 PM »
Drive the spacer out from the outside of the rear drive after I heat it up? 

I was looking at the bearing separator at HF when I was buying those two jaw pullers, guess I'll take them back and get the bearing separator.  Will I have to replace the race on the hub or can I re-use the same one for the new hub?

Edit: OK, I got the spacer and the old race out.

Forgot you are replacing the hub. If you're reusing the outer race and needles/cage, then reuse the inner race as well.
Charlie
http://www.AntietamClassicCycle.com
'69 V700
'69 Ambassador
'71 Ambassador
'73 Eldorado
'74 850-T
'76 Convert
'77 Morini 3 1/2 Strada
'81 Ducati 500SL Pantah
'82 V50 III

Online blackcat

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 7775
Re: 1976 Lemans Project
« Reply #158 on: July 26, 2020, 10:42:36 AM »
Forgot you are replacing the hub. If you're reusing the outer race and needles/cage, then reuse the inner race as well.

Thanks.
L.A.,Floriduh/NYC
boom shakalaka
http://youtu.be/wHUP527txeg

1968 Norton Fastback
1976 Lemans
1981 CX-100
1993 1000S
1997 Daytona RS
2007 Red Norge

Online blackcat

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 7775
Re: 1976 Lemans Project
« Reply #159 on: July 26, 2020, 01:58:03 PM »
Did you buy the large bearing puller or the smaller kit?
https://www.harborfreight.com/bearing-separator-and-puller-set-62593.html
L.A.,Floriduh/NYC
boom shakalaka
http://youtu.be/wHUP527txeg

1968 Norton Fastback
1976 Lemans
1981 CX-100
1993 1000S
1997 Daytona RS
2007 Red Norge

Offline Antietam Classic Cycle

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 12081
  • Happily stuck in the past.
    • Antietam Classic Cycle
  • Location: Rohrersville, Maryland
Re: 1976 Lemans Project
« Reply #160 on: July 26, 2020, 05:12:14 PM »
Did you buy the large bearing puller or the smaller kit?
https://www.harborfreight.com/bearing-separator-and-puller-set-62593.html

I bought just the large separator, but that was years ago and mine looks different than the current offering.
Charlie
http://www.AntietamClassicCycle.com
'69 V700
'69 Ambassador
'71 Ambassador
'73 Eldorado
'74 850-T
'76 Convert
'77 Morini 3 1/2 Strada
'81 Ducati 500SL Pantah
'82 V50 III

Online blackcat

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 7775
Re: 1976 Lemans Project
« Reply #161 on: July 26, 2020, 06:19:30 PM »
I bought just the large separator, but that was years ago and mine looks different than the current offering.

I bought the large one but can't get a bite on the edge of the bearing, going to take it back and try the smaller kit which has the puller attachments.

Maybe this one as it looks like the lip is smaller:
https://www.harborfreight.com/gear-puller-set-15-pc-62958.html

or this one:
https://www.harborfreight.com/bearing-separator-and-puller-set-62593.html
« Last Edit: July 26, 2020, 06:27:37 PM by blackcat »
L.A.,Floriduh/NYC
boom shakalaka
http://youtu.be/wHUP527txeg

1968 Norton Fastback
1976 Lemans
1981 CX-100
1993 1000S
1997 Daytona RS
2007 Red Norge

Online blackcat

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 7775
Re: 1976 Lemans Project
« Reply #162 on: July 27, 2020, 01:02:23 PM »
Finally popped the race with this kit:
L.A.,Floriduh/NYC
boom shakalaka
http://youtu.be/wHUP527txeg

1968 Norton Fastback
1976 Lemans
1981 CX-100
1993 1000S
1997 Daytona RS
2007 Red Norge

Offline Antietam Classic Cycle

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 12081
  • Happily stuck in the past.
    • Antietam Classic Cycle
  • Location: Rohrersville, Maryland
Re: 1976 Lemans Project
« Reply #163 on: July 27, 2020, 04:08:38 PM »
 :thumb:
Charlie
http://www.AntietamClassicCycle.com
'69 V700
'69 Ambassador
'71 Ambassador
'73 Eldorado
'74 850-T
'76 Convert
'77 Morini 3 1/2 Strada
'81 Ducati 500SL Pantah
'82 V50 III

Online blackcat

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 7775
Re: 1976 Lemans Project
« Reply #164 on: July 31, 2020, 01:45:35 PM »
Put everything back together, made sure the lash was OK but had to wait a few days for the Schnorr washers to show up at Fastenal which arrived this morning.

Just got back from a ride and no runs, no drips and hopefully no errors.

L.A.,Floriduh/NYC
boom shakalaka
http://youtu.be/wHUP527txeg

1968 Norton Fastback
1976 Lemans
1981 CX-100
1993 1000S
1997 Daytona RS
2007 Red Norge

Offline Motorad64

  • Weekend Warrior
  • ***
  • *
  • Posts: 131
Re: 1976 Lemans Project
« Reply #165 on: July 31, 2020, 02:11:06 PM »
Looks like a tidy repair!  Glad you're back on the road

Mine's running well save for the petcocks not liking to just dump the fuel down the line but dribbling instead.

Online Dave Swanson

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 3255
  • Northern Illinois USA
Re: 1976 Lemans Project
« Reply #166 on: July 31, 2020, 06:09:34 PM »
Good going! 
Dave Swanson - Northern IL
1935 GTS
1968 V700
1973 V7 Sport
1974 Eldo
1977 Vert
1977 Lemans 1.2
1980 T3 California
1993 1000S - Sparklehorse
2004 V11S - Eraldo-ized
2015 Norge GT8V - Beetle-ized
2015 V7 Special - Beetle-ized
2016 Griso SE - Beetle-ized

MGNOC L-780

Online blackcat

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 7775
Re: 1976 Lemans Project
« Reply #167 on: August 01, 2020, 12:19:01 PM »
Looks like a tidy repair!  Glad you're back on the road

Mine's running well save for the petcocks not liking to just dump the fuel down the line but dribbling instead.

I went through the same thing when I rebuilt the engine on my CX which had been sitting apart for months. Bike ran well when the tank was filled to the brim and starved for gas as the tank ran low on gas. The inline filters ended up being the problem so it was an easy fix.

I ran the Lemans this morning, checked the final drive temp when I got home then took out the 1000S as a comparison and the Lemans was 91 degree's and the 1000S was 104 with an outside temp of 89 degrees, so I at least know it isn't overheating from a bad mechanic who has never done this work before.
L.A.,Floriduh/NYC
boom shakalaka
http://youtu.be/wHUP527txeg

1968 Norton Fastback
1976 Lemans
1981 CX-100
1993 1000S
1997 Daytona RS
2007 Red Norge

Online blackcat

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 7775
Re: 1976 Lemans Project
« Reply #168 on: August 02, 2020, 07:09:09 PM »
This is the way I have routed the throttle cable for the right carb and canít see how it can go behind the petcock. Is this the correct way for it to run?

L.A.,Floriduh/NYC
boom shakalaka
http://youtu.be/wHUP527txeg

1968 Norton Fastback
1976 Lemans
1981 CX-100
1993 1000S
1997 Daytona RS
2007 Red Norge

Offline Antietam Classic Cycle

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 12081
  • Happily stuck in the past.
    • Antietam Classic Cycle
  • Location: Rohrersville, Maryland
Re: 1976 Lemans Project
« Reply #169 on: August 02, 2020, 08:53:59 PM »
Route the cables whatever way works best. Everything is tight or interferes with something it seems.  :wink:
Charlie
http://www.AntietamClassicCycle.com
'69 V700
'69 Ambassador
'71 Ambassador
'73 Eldorado
'74 850-T
'76 Convert
'77 Morini 3 1/2 Strada
'81 Ducati 500SL Pantah
'82 V50 III

Online blackcat

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 7775
Re: 1976 Lemans Project
« Reply #170 on: August 03, 2020, 07:27:49 AM »
Route the cables whatever way works best. Everything is tight or interferes with something it seems.  :wink:

Yes, I just don't see any other way to route that cable but just thought I'd check. Just looks like over time that valve will start cutting through the cable so I'm going to get a cable shield for extra protection.
L.A.,Floriduh/NYC
boom shakalaka
http://youtu.be/wHUP527txeg

1968 Norton Fastback
1976 Lemans
1981 CX-100
1993 1000S
1997 Daytona RS
2007 Red Norge

Offline Motorad64

  • Weekend Warrior
  • ***
  • *
  • Posts: 131
Re: 1976 Lemans Project
« Reply #171 on: August 03, 2020, 12:40:30 PM »
I had mine set up with two individual L/R petcocks, marked BAP to a single inlet banjo on each carb.   Mentioned the lean behavior when tank got low on fuel and Charlie suggested a dual inlet banjo and running a balance line.  Fixed it right up.  Ran all the way down to reserve then lower with nary a pop or hiccup. 

She's running good.  Now if only those crazy stiff FAC dampers would break in....

Online 1down5up

  • Weekend Warrior
  • ***
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 133
  • Location: Sydney NSW Australia
Re: 1976 Lemans Project
« Reply #172 on: August 03, 2020, 02:58:37 PM »
This is the way I have routed the throttle cable for the right carb and canít see how it can go behind the petcock. Is this the correct way for it to run?



Most (including the factory i believe) Rotate the carbs inwards 10deg or so, this allows the cable to run behind the petcock - if you have a look at pics you will usually see that the carbs are tilted inwards a touch.

Offline Canuck750

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 915
  • Location: Edmonton, Canada
Re: 1976 Lemans Project
« Reply #173 on: August 03, 2020, 03:17:02 PM »
This worked for me


48 Guzzi Airone, 57 Guzzi Cardellino, 65 Benelli Barracuda, 66 Aermacchi Sprint, 68 Gilera 106SS, 72 Eldorado, 72 Benelli 180, 74 Guzzi 750S, 73 Laverda SF1, 74  Benelli 650S, 75 Ducati 860GT, 75 Moto Morini 3-1/2, 78 Moto Morinii 500

Online blackcat

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 7775
Re: 1976 Lemans Project
« Reply #174 on: August 03, 2020, 05:35:13 PM »
Most (including the factory i believe) Rotate the carbs inwards 10deg or so, this allows the cable to run behind the petcock - if you have a look at pics you will usually see that the carbs are tilted inwards a touch.

Got it,  and I did note that in the factory photoís but didnít make the connection. Thanks!
L.A.,Floriduh/NYC
boom shakalaka
http://youtu.be/wHUP527txeg

1968 Norton Fastback
1976 Lemans
1981 CX-100
1993 1000S
1997 Daytona RS
2007 Red Norge

Online blackcat

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 7775
Re: 1976 Lemans Project
« Reply #175 on: August 03, 2020, 05:39:30 PM »
I had mine set up with two individual L/R petcocks, marked BAP to a single inlet banjo on each carb.   Mentioned the lean behavior when tank got low on fuel and Charlie suggested a dual inlet banjo and running a balance line.  Fixed it right up.  Ran all the way down to reserve then lower with nary a pop or hiccup. 

She's running good.  Now if only those crazy stiff FAC dampers would break in....

Good on the lean fix. Yeah the FACís take awhile to break in, did you also go with Wirth springs? Took me about 3,000+ miles to break those in on my CX. I have the stock set up on this Lemans and so far I have no complaints.
L.A.,Floriduh/NYC
boom shakalaka
http://youtu.be/wHUP527txeg

1968 Norton Fastback
1976 Lemans
1981 CX-100
1993 1000S
1997 Daytona RS
2007 Red Norge

Offline Antietam Classic Cycle

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 12081
  • Happily stuck in the past.
    • Antietam Classic Cycle
  • Location: Rohrersville, Maryland
Re: 1976 Lemans Project
« Reply #176 on: August 03, 2020, 06:42:30 PM »
I had mine set up with two individual L/R petcocks, marked BAP to a single inlet banjo on each carb.   Mentioned the lean behavior when tank got low on fuel and Charlie suggested a dual inlet banjo and running a balance line.  Fixed it right up.  Ran all the way down to reserve then lower with nary a pop or hiccup. 

She's running good.  Now if only those crazy stiff FAC dampers would break in....

 :thumb:
Charlie
http://www.AntietamClassicCycle.com
'69 V700
'69 Ambassador
'71 Ambassador
'73 Eldorado
'74 850-T
'76 Convert
'77 Morini 3 1/2 Strada
'81 Ducati 500SL Pantah
'82 V50 III

Online Frenchfrog

  • Guzzi Mentor
  • ****
  • Posts: 323
Re: 1976 Lemans Project
« Reply #177 on: August 04, 2020, 03:13:25 AM »
Mine are getting there after about 1000km but the roads i ride one are rough ! I have to say I was seriously shocked at first :grin: :grin:

***Wildguzzi Official Logo High Quality 5 Color Window Decals Back In Stock***
Shipping in USA Only. Awesome quality. Back by popular demand. All proceeds go back into the forum.
http://www.wildguzzi.com/Products/products.htm
Advertise Here
 

20 Ounce Stainless Steel Double Insulated Tumbler with donation credit
Buy a quality tumbler and support the forum at the same time!
Better than a YETI! BPA and Lead free.
Advertise Here