Author Topic: T3 California Restoration  (Read 12169 times)

Online Dave Swanson

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Re: T3 California Restoration
« Reply #60 on: October 31, 2020, 08:04:56 AM »
The sludge trap was about 1/8th full.   The sludge trap threaded plug turned out with no resistance!





Dave Swanson - Northern IL
1935 GTS
1968 V700
1973 V7 Sport
1974 Eldo
1977 Vert
1977 Lemans 1.2
1980 T3 California
1993 1000S - Sparklehorse
2004 V11S - Eraldo-ized
2015 Norge GT8V - Beetle-ized
2016 Griso SE - Beetle-ized
2021 V7-850 Stone Centenario

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Online Dave Swanson

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Re: T3 California Restoration
« Reply #61 on: October 31, 2020, 08:07:09 AM »
These are the engine assembly errors I have found which occurred at about 100k miles which was 30k miles ago.

Sludge trap threaded plug - loose, no Loctite.

When replacing rings the Nigusil plated barrels were severely cross hatch honed leaving deep hatch marks.  Honing of Nigusil barrels is not recommended when replacing rings.  Certainly not with such a coarse stone.  Oil consumption must have went up after that hone job!



Hollow dowel tubes missing from both front and rear main bearings.   Since the dowels major purpose in life is serving as an anti-rotation device for the bearings leaving them out is risking a total loss of oil to the crankshaft if the bearings turn slightly.   

Rear main bearing was installed with sealant on all surfaces!  This made removal of the main rear bearing much more difficult than necessary! 

When last removing the rotor a soft piece of metal was used in the crank to push the rotor off instead of the proper hardened piece.  This wedged the soft piece in the crankshaft.  Rather than take the extra time to extract the soft piece the rotor bolt threads were shortened!  It only required 10 minutes to set up the crankshaft in my drill press to drill a pilot hole and remove the piece with an Easy Out. 



A substantial amount of sludge was found in the pan.  One of the pan socket head bolts had the "socket" rounded to the point it was useless.  The bolt required extraction with judicious use of a sharp punch to get it to move.  I am betting that the pan hadn't been dropped since the "overhaul" due to this bolt.

The oil filter was loose enough that a toddler could have turned it.  This filter definitely could have benefited from the hose clamp safety feature, but it wasn't present.  Another near miss avoided! 

And!!  Orings were present on every cylinder head stud at the base gasket instead of the required 2 at 12 and 6 o'clock.  I guess the mechanic thought more was better!   :rolleyes:

« Last Edit: October 31, 2020, 09:09:58 AM by Dave Swanson »
Dave Swanson - Northern IL
1935 GTS
1968 V700
1973 V7 Sport
1974 Eldo
1977 Vert
1977 Lemans 1.2
1980 T3 California
1993 1000S - Sparklehorse
2004 V11S - Eraldo-ized
2015 Norge GT8V - Beetle-ized
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Online Dave Swanson

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T3 California Restoration
« Reply #62 on: October 31, 2020, 12:10:43 PM »
Going together.  The old adjustable fixed timing chain tensioner replaced by a modern "automatic" adjuster with a new chain.

I always appreciate the simple, but elegant engineering that went into the Guzzi V twin.   I was fairly experienced overhauling Harley engines before I attempted my first Guzzi.  I was amazed at how simple the engines are to overhaul.   That simplicity does not come by accident.  The design is an inspired one.

« Last Edit: October 31, 2020, 12:13:13 PM by Dave Swanson »
Dave Swanson - Northern IL
1935 GTS
1968 V700
1973 V7 Sport
1974 Eldo
1977 Vert
1977 Lemans 1.2
1980 T3 California
1993 1000S - Sparklehorse
2004 V11S - Eraldo-ized
2015 Norge GT8V - Beetle-ized
2016 Griso SE - Beetle-ized
2021 V7-850 Stone Centenario

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Offline Canuck750

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Re: T3 California Restoration
« Reply #63 on: October 31, 2020, 08:02:39 PM »
Nice work Dave!  Agreed, the Guzzi V Twin is a very clever and robust design,
48 Guzzi Airone, 57 Guzzi Cardellino, 65 Benelli Barracuda, 66 Aermacchi Sprint, 68 Gilera 106SS, 72 Eldorado, 72 Benelli 180, 74 Guzzi 750S, 73 Laverda SF1, 74  Benelli 650S, 75 Ducati 860GT, 75 Moto Morini 3-1/2, 78 Moto Morinii 500

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Re: T3 California Restoration
« Reply #63 on: October 31, 2020, 08:02:39 PM »

Online Dave Swanson

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Re: T3 California Restoration
« Reply #64 on: November 02, 2020, 09:17:18 AM »
I am sure Charlie has seen many worse but this is the grimiest Guzzi I have seen.

Before and after.



Dave Swanson - Northern IL
1935 GTS
1968 V700
1973 V7 Sport
1974 Eldo
1977 Vert
1977 Lemans 1.2
1980 T3 California
1993 1000S - Sparklehorse
2004 V11S - Eraldo-ized
2015 Norge GT8V - Beetle-ized
2016 Griso SE - Beetle-ized
2021 V7-850 Stone Centenario

MGNOC L-780

Online Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: T3 California Restoration
« Reply #65 on: November 02, 2020, 03:46:42 PM »
I am sure Charlie has seen many worse but this is the grimiest Guzzi I have seen.

Before and after.





That was pretty bad, just missing a bunch of mud/oil mix caked between the fins!  :grin:
Charlie

Online Dave Swanson

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Re: T3 California Restoration
« Reply #66 on: November 05, 2020, 03:23:59 PM »
I found one more assembly error by the shop that did the 100k mile "overhaul".   

I had marked the flywheel before I removed it for easy reassembly.  When I installed the flywheel this afternoon I double checked to make sure it was in the right position. The shop had assembled it 180 degrees off!   I am scratching my head trying to figure out how they timed the engine!!   
« Last Edit: November 05, 2020, 03:25:15 PM by Dave Swanson »
Dave Swanson - Northern IL
1935 GTS
1968 V700
1973 V7 Sport
1974 Eldo
1977 Vert
1977 Lemans 1.2
1980 T3 California
1993 1000S - Sparklehorse
2004 V11S - Eraldo-ized
2015 Norge GT8V - Beetle-ized
2016 Griso SE - Beetle-ized
2021 V7-850 Stone Centenario

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Online Dave Swanson

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Re: T3 California Restoration
« Reply #67 on: November 10, 2020, 10:18:11 AM »
I went through the heads.  They were in great shape.  I good cleanup and they are ready to go. 

The exhaust studs did need replacing though.



I assembled the valve train but decided the wear on the rocker pivot shafts was enough to warrant replacement.  Hopefully I can button up the top end by the end of week. 

Dave Swanson - Northern IL
1935 GTS
1968 V700
1973 V7 Sport
1974 Eldo
1977 Vert
1977 Lemans 1.2
1980 T3 California
1993 1000S - Sparklehorse
2004 V11S - Eraldo-ized
2015 Norge GT8V - Beetle-ized
2016 Griso SE - Beetle-ized
2021 V7-850 Stone Centenario

MGNOC L-780

Online Dave Swanson

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Re: T3 California Restoration
« Reply #68 on: November 11, 2020, 01:35:08 PM »
I backed up a bit and removed the flywheel to add some JB Weld to the top freeze plug.

Dave Swanson - Northern IL
1935 GTS
1968 V700
1973 V7 Sport
1974 Eldo
1977 Vert
1977 Lemans 1.2
1980 T3 California
1993 1000S - Sparklehorse
2004 V11S - Eraldo-ized
2015 Norge GT8V - Beetle-ized
2016 Griso SE - Beetle-ized
2021 V7-850 Stone Centenario

MGNOC L-780

Online Dave Swanson

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Re: T3 California Restoration
« Reply #69 on: November 13, 2020, 03:03:26 PM »
The engine is buttoned up.  Looks a bit better now!



Dave Swanson - Northern IL
1935 GTS
1968 V700
1973 V7 Sport
1974 Eldo
1977 Vert
1977 Lemans 1.2
1980 T3 California
1993 1000S - Sparklehorse
2004 V11S - Eraldo-ized
2015 Norge GT8V - Beetle-ized
2016 Griso SE - Beetle-ized
2021 V7-850 Stone Centenario

MGNOC L-780

Online Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: T3 California Restoration
« Reply #70 on: November 13, 2020, 03:31:52 PM »
The engine is buttoned up.  Looks a bit better now!



A little bit of Loopframe goodness added?  :wink:
Charlie

Online Dave Swanson

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Re: T3 California Restoration
« Reply #71 on: November 13, 2020, 03:46:32 PM »
A little bit of Loopframe goodness added?  :wink:

Ha!  I can't get anything by you!   It was on the engine when I tore it down, so it can stay.   :grin:
« Last Edit: November 13, 2020, 03:46:51 PM by Dave Swanson »
Dave Swanson - Northern IL
1935 GTS
1968 V700
1973 V7 Sport
1974 Eldo
1977 Vert
1977 Lemans 1.2
1980 T3 California
1993 1000S - Sparklehorse
2004 V11S - Eraldo-ized
2015 Norge GT8V - Beetle-ized
2016 Griso SE - Beetle-ized
2021 V7-850 Stone Centenario

MGNOC L-780

Online Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: T3 California Restoration
« Reply #72 on: November 13, 2020, 05:57:40 PM »
It's actually a good upgrade. Never saw one leak.
Charlie

Online jwinwi

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Re: T3 California Restoration
« Reply #73 on: November 17, 2020, 02:46:26 PM »
The sludge trap was about 1/8th full.   The sludge trap threaded plug turned out with no resistance!





Ok, I give up. What is this a picture of?  Something to do with the crankshaft sludge trap...
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Online Dave Swanson

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Re: T3 California Restoration
« Reply #74 on: November 17, 2020, 02:59:37 PM »
Ok, I give up. What is this a picture of?  Something to do with the crankshaft sludge trap...

That's what the solidified sludge looks like when you remove it.  Very normal amount. 

And it collects in here. 

« Last Edit: November 17, 2020, 03:19:29 PM by Dave Swanson »
Dave Swanson - Northern IL
1935 GTS
1968 V700
1973 V7 Sport
1974 Eldo
1977 Vert
1977 Lemans 1.2
1980 T3 California
1993 1000S - Sparklehorse
2004 V11S - Eraldo-ized
2015 Norge GT8V - Beetle-ized
2016 Griso SE - Beetle-ized
2021 V7-850 Stone Centenario

MGNOC L-780

Offline Canuck750

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Re: T3 California Restoration
« Reply #75 on: November 17, 2020, 07:16:48 PM »
The sludge residue look familiar, the trap is such a brilliant and simple design.
48 Guzzi Airone, 57 Guzzi Cardellino, 65 Benelli Barracuda, 66 Aermacchi Sprint, 68 Gilera 106SS, 72 Eldorado, 72 Benelli 180, 74 Guzzi 750S, 73 Laverda SF1, 74  Benelli 650S, 75 Ducati 860GT, 75 Moto Morini 3-1/2, 78 Moto Morinii 500

Offline s1120

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Re: T3 California Restoration
« Reply #76 on: November 18, 2020, 06:31:57 AM »
The sludge residue look familiar, the trap is such a brilliant and simple design.

Ive been around engines my whole life, and never seen one before. Is this common in any other engines? Is it open to the oil gallerys, and CF just flings the heavy junk out?
Paul B

Online Dave Swanson

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Re: T3 California Restoration
« Reply #77 on: November 18, 2020, 06:39:28 AM »
Ive been around engines my whole life, and never seen one before. Is this common in any other engines? Is it open to the oil gallerys, and CF just flings the heavy junk out?

Correct the centrifugal force causes the particles to be forced against the wall of the sludge trap and those that manage to stick don't pass through with the oil. 

With non oil filter Guzzis this is the only "filtration" available.  Most old Brit engines use this method.  All old Triumphs have sludge traps in the crank.  Many old Hondas like the CB350 have a oil slinger that operates the same way.  My 66 BMW R69S has an oil slinger that collect the sludge.  This is the only filtration method used on older BMWs, and I am sure many more. 
Dave Swanson - Northern IL
1935 GTS
1968 V700
1973 V7 Sport
1974 Eldo
1977 Vert
1977 Lemans 1.2
1980 T3 California
1993 1000S - Sparklehorse
2004 V11S - Eraldo-ized
2015 Norge GT8V - Beetle-ized
2016 Griso SE - Beetle-ized
2021 V7-850 Stone Centenario

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Online jwinwi

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Re: T3 California Restoration
« Reply #78 on: November 18, 2020, 11:39:40 AM »
That's what the solidified sludge looks like when you remove it.  Very normal amount. 

And it collects in here. 



Got it. Didn't think the sludge would form a solid mass; I thought it would be more like mud that has to be rinsed out...
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Offline Groover

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Re: T3 California Restoration
« Reply #79 on: November 18, 2020, 04:13:49 PM »
Ha!  I can't get anything by you!   It was on the engine when I tore it down, so it can stay.   :grin:

I give up, what am I looking for?  :azn:
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Online Dave Swanson

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Re: T3 California Restoration
« Reply #80 on: November 18, 2020, 04:39:51 PM »
I give up, what am I looking for?  :azn:

It has a Loop frame oil feed pipe to the heads.   :grin:
Dave Swanson - Northern IL
1935 GTS
1968 V700
1973 V7 Sport
1974 Eldo
1977 Vert
1977 Lemans 1.2
1980 T3 California
1993 1000S - Sparklehorse
2004 V11S - Eraldo-ized
2015 Norge GT8V - Beetle-ized
2016 Griso SE - Beetle-ized
2021 V7-850 Stone Centenario

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Online Dave Swanson

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Re: T3 California Restoration
« Reply #81 on: November 21, 2020, 11:41:12 AM »
With the arrival of the gaskets for the intakes I was able to finish this up.

Dave Swanson - Northern IL
1935 GTS
1968 V700
1973 V7 Sport
1974 Eldo
1977 Vert
1977 Lemans 1.2
1980 T3 California
1993 1000S - Sparklehorse
2004 V11S - Eraldo-ized
2015 Norge GT8V - Beetle-ized
2016 Griso SE - Beetle-ized
2021 V7-850 Stone Centenario

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Offline Glawster

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Re: T3 California Restoration
« Reply #82 on: November 21, 2020, 01:23:21 PM »
I'm not a regular on this forum and only just found this Restoration section.  Man, there's some great stuff on here!  I'm enjoying this particular thread Dave as I did a bit of light refurbishment to a T3 Cali in 2016.  Rather stupidly I let one of my friends talk me into selling it to him last year and I replaced it with a V85TT, which really wasn't what I needed.  I do love the T3 Cali.  Looks like it should handle like a canal barge, but has a wonderful nimble chassis.  I look forward to seeing the final result!
Cheers,
Derek

DSC_2161 by Derek Wardell, on Flickr

DSC_2352 by Derek Wardell, on Flickr
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Online Dave Swanson

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Re: T3 California Restoration
« Reply #83 on: November 21, 2020, 01:43:10 PM »
Derek,  we certainly started at about the same point.  Light refurbishment indeed!!    I will be happy if mine turns out as well!  I just love the look of the T3 California.   All the bric a brac but still has all the qualities of the early Tontis. 
Dave Swanson - Northern IL
1935 GTS
1968 V700
1973 V7 Sport
1974 Eldo
1977 Vert
1977 Lemans 1.2
1980 T3 California
1993 1000S - Sparklehorse
2004 V11S - Eraldo-ized
2015 Norge GT8V - Beetle-ized
2016 Griso SE - Beetle-ized
2021 V7-850 Stone Centenario

MGNOC L-780

Online Dave Swanson

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Re: T3 California Restoration
« Reply #84 on: November 22, 2020, 05:25:40 PM »
I wasn't sure if I could salvage the front rim. 

This is how it looked after an aggressive scrub in the solvent tank.



After working my fingers to the bone for a few hours today this is the result.   I was thinking about throwing in the towel and sending the hub to Buchanan to have a nice, new Borrani laced up.  But dodged that expense.   I am retired now so I have more time than money.



Dave Swanson - Northern IL
1935 GTS
1968 V700
1973 V7 Sport
1974 Eldo
1977 Vert
1977 Lemans 1.2
1980 T3 California
1993 1000S - Sparklehorse
2004 V11S - Eraldo-ized
2015 Norge GT8V - Beetle-ized
2016 Griso SE - Beetle-ized
2021 V7-850 Stone Centenario

MGNOC L-780

Offline keener

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Re: T3 California Restoration
« Reply #85 on: November 22, 2020, 05:53:03 PM »
 :thumb:  good on YOU
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Re: T3 California Restoration
« Reply #86 on: November 22, 2020, 09:42:12 PM »
 :thumb:
Charlie

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Re: T3 California Restoration
« Reply #87 on: November 23, 2020, 04:05:37 AM »
That's a great job!  I would have sent them for vapour blasting to get them clean and tried polishing from there, but thought of hand polishing those awkward profiles puts me off.  On my T3 the wheel builder mechanically polished the rims, but didn't get the best result.
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Online Dave Swanson

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Re: T3 California Restoration
« Reply #88 on: November 23, 2020, 10:53:11 AM »
The rear rim went faster.  I was able to start with 2000 grit and then polishing compound.  I was able to finish it while listening to disc 2 of the Allman Brothers at Filmore East which is over 1 hour long.   Mountain Jam being one of the best songs to listen to while polishing known to man.   :cheesy:

I still have 80 spokes and nipples to polish, but the befores and afters are pretty dramatic.

As with most of my restorations the level I aim for is what a very well cared for machine might look like after 40 years or more, rather than trying for the "new" look.   I admire those that can accomplish the new look level, but I never seem to have the patience to take it to that level. 

Rear before.



Rear after.



Front before.



Front after.

Dave Swanson - Northern IL
1935 GTS
1968 V700
1973 V7 Sport
1974 Eldo
1977 Vert
1977 Lemans 1.2
1980 T3 California
1993 1000S - Sparklehorse
2004 V11S - Eraldo-ized
2015 Norge GT8V - Beetle-ized
2016 Griso SE - Beetle-ized
2021 V7-850 Stone Centenario

MGNOC L-780

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Re: T3 California Restoration
« Reply #89 on: November 23, 2020, 08:57:28 PM »
Making stuff look brand new is all fine and good, but then you can't ride it. god forbid you get a stone chip.
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