Author Topic: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..  (Read 199922 times)

Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Lario rehab project begins
« Reply #60 on: December 08, 2012, 04:02:59 PM »
Ran down to Earl's yesterday, and had him make up new brake hoses. Nice stuff, braided stainless, plastic coated. Under 60 bux for the set.  ;D

Ok, let's clean up the calipers. Put a piece of steel, or whatever you have between the pads that is thinner than the rotor, blow about 100 psi in the port, and the pistons will move out far enough that you can spray brake cleaner behind the pistons. Fortunately, in Indiana, you can still get the good stuff.. ;) Careful with it, now.. eye protection and gloves are the order of the day. A few applications, compressed air, etc. will get out the mung and drool that is trapped behind them because the Distinguished Previous Owner (s) haven't serviced them for 25 FREAKIN YEARS.  ;D


Ok, I know this is pretty basic, but in case a newby has never changed out brake pads.. use your flat piece of steel, or a big screwdriver on your old pads and lever between them to push the pistons back, take your brass drift and peck on the back side of the pin that holds the pads on. Thats the opposite side of where the Smurf finger is pointing.

Here you can see the anti rattle spring that holds tension on the pads. Take it all apart, clean where the new pads are going to go, clean up the rust and corrosion, put the new ones in, drop the spring back in, and tap the pin home. It's only held in with a tension ring and the slight tension from the anti rattle spring.

Well, that was easy.  ;D Hook up your new brake lines and you're done.


Look like they're made for it don't they? ;)
We'll save the filling and bleeding until I decide whether I'm going to put all new controls on it. No need to do that job twice. Hmmm, Beer O'clock. Done for the day.


Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal

02 Scura RC
87 AeroLario
79 G5
95 Skorpion tour
 
I think senility is going to be a fairly smooth transition for me..

Offline Bella

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Re: Lario rehab project begins
« Reply #61 on: December 08, 2012, 05:56:36 PM »
Chuck, I am totally humbled and impressed.  Just spent 1/2 hour with my jaw dropped reading this thread.  I'm pulling my Norge tank this weekend to epoxy the inside and have asked my engineer buddy to consult on the project. 

Hey, was it you who sent me that hard as a brick seat to remake  :droolfor Kip?  You gotta be a hard ass if you rode that thing to the west coast!!

Scott
1969 Suzuki Stinger 125
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Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Lario rehab project begins
« Reply #62 on: December 08, 2012, 07:03:04 PM »
Yeah, Kip kindly lent it to me for the trip, but I only rode it about 1000 miles. <shrug> it's comfortable enough. Believe me, I've ridden on worse.  ;D
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal

02 Scura RC
87 AeroLario
79 G5
95 Skorpion tour
 
I think senility is going to be a fairly smooth transition for me..

Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Lario rehab project begins
« Reply #63 on: December 14, 2012, 10:53:03 AM »
The internet is a wonderful thing. Straight from Denmark, a stud and a couple of nuts for the Lario. Just magically appeared in my mailbox. ;D Need I say thanks, Brian?  ;-T
So let's install some stuff. Clean out the threads with brake cleaner and compressed air. Careful, now.. do I need to mention safety glasses, etc.?


More than enough blue lock tite..

Double nut the stud and screw it in the correct amount.

Now, we need to let the thread locker cure for at least 20 minutes, so let's do something else.
This stuff is *really* nasty, but sometimes you need to use it. Safety glasses, rubber gloves required. Oh, and it is a very effective paint remover, so if you have some paint that you care about, keep it off of it.

Just heard the lunch whistle blow, so we'll let this stuff bubble and boil for a while.
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal

02 Scura RC
87 AeroLario
79 G5
95 Skorpion tour
 
I think senility is going to be a fairly smooth transition for me..

Wildgoose Chase Moto Guzzi

Re: Lario rehab project begins
« Reply #63 on: December 14, 2012, 10:53:03 AM »

Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Lario rehab project begins
« Reply #64 on: December 14, 2012, 01:39:21 PM »
Well, that stuff made quick work of the unremovable gasket.

Dug into my new gasket envelope, and found my supplier had sent me the wrong base gasket. <sigh> Oh, well. It's a nice day, think I'll go fly.  ;D
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal

02 Scura RC
87 AeroLario
79 G5
95 Skorpion tour
 
I think senility is going to be a fairly smooth transition for me..

Offline balvenie

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Re: Lario rehab project begins
« Reply #65 on: December 14, 2012, 04:47:26 PM »
Better luck next time Chuck ;-T Excellent pics ;-T ;-T
Oz
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As ye practice, so do ye teach.

Offline IceBlue

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Re: Lario rehab project begins
« Reply #66 on: December 15, 2012, 01:27:50 AM »
The internet is a wonderful thing. Straight from Denmark, a stud and a couple of nuts for the Lario. Just magically appeared in my mailbox. ;D Need I say thanks, Brian?  ;-T

Seeing the baby back on the road is good enough for me Chuck - and already said thanks  ;)
Tankyou for the pic's. I'm looking forward to the film clip where you fire her up for the first time  ;D ;)
Ciao  :pop
Copenhagen Denmark - http://www.facebook.com/motoguzzilario

750 Targa - long legged younger sister of the Lario
V65 Lario - Short legged total brat
V65 Lario - Silver Streak
V35C - Smallest Guzzi cruiser
V75C - (project)
V75/4 - (project)

Morizzi

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Re: Lario rehab project begins
« Reply #67 on: December 15, 2012, 01:36:00 AM »
We'll save the filling and bleeding until I decide whether I'm going to put all new controls on it. No need to do that job twice. Hmmm, Beer O'clock. Done for the day.


A little tip on bleeding the rear M/C Chuck.

I'm guessing it is the model with the remote reservoir.

Use clear tube from the M/C to the reservoir and ensure there is a clear run rising to it with no dips or crests to trap air.

When you are pumping the lever you will see air bubbles being pushed up the feed hose. Wait for them to rise harmlessly away then continue. It seems to make a big difference on this design. The clear hose is just so you can see when the bubbles have finished.

Cheers

Rod


Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Lario rehab project begins
« Reply #68 on: December 15, 2012, 09:23:58 AM »
A little tip on bleeding the rear M/C Chuck.

I'm guessing it is the model with the remote reservoir.

Use clear tube from the M/C to the reservoir and ensure there is a clear run rising to it with no dips or crests to trap air.

When you are pumping the lever you will see air bubbles being pushed up the feed hose. Wait for them to rise harmlessly away then continue. It seems to make a big difference on this design. The clear hose is just so you can see when the bubbles have finished.

Cheers

Rod

Thanks for the tip, Rod. What I normally do is fill the remote by using a syringe and hooking it to the caliper. That tends to push the air upward, and is how I do airplanes with their convoluted lines and many times dual master cylinders on the same brake.  I'll do that first, then if it still needs bled (probably will)  ;D I'll finish with your method.

Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal

02 Scura RC
87 AeroLario
79 G5
95 Skorpion tour
 
I think senility is going to be a fairly smooth transition for me..

Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Lario rehab project begins
« Reply #69 on: December 15, 2012, 09:26:06 AM »
The repaired cylinder arrived from Millennium Technologies last night. Beautiful work. Not cheap, but good work seldom is.. ;D

Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal

02 Scura RC
87 AeroLario
79 G5
95 Skorpion tour
 
I think senility is going to be a fairly smooth transition for me..

Offline IceBlue

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Re: Lario rehab project begins
« Reply #70 on: December 16, 2012, 02:46:09 PM »
Wow - That IS nice work!!
Copenhagen Denmark - http://www.facebook.com/motoguzzilario

750 Targa - long legged younger sister of the Lario
V65 Lario - Short legged total brat
V65 Lario - Silver Streak
V35C - Smallest Guzzi cruiser
V75C - (project)
V75/4 - (project)

Offline kevdog3019

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Re: Lario rehab project begins
« Reply #71 on: December 16, 2012, 04:54:10 PM »
The repaired cylinder arrived from Millennium Technologies last night. Beautiful work. Not cheap, but good work seldom is.. ;D



What's the process involved with that?  What material do they use?
-Kevin
'86 V65 "Super" Lario
'85 Honda Nighthawk 700s
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Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Lario rehab project begins
« Reply #72 on: December 16, 2012, 05:03:36 PM »
Plating, then grinding to size. It's compatible with the stock Guzzi rings.
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal

02 Scura RC
87 AeroLario
79 G5
95 Skorpion tour
 
I think senility is going to be a fairly smooth transition for me..

Offline Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: Lario rehab project begins
« Reply #73 on: December 16, 2012, 05:21:20 PM »
http://www.mt-llc.com/plating.php

What is NSC?
Nickel Silicon Carbide composite is the technical name for the coating that we apply, NSC for short. NSC is a composite of a special nickel and very small silicon carbide particles evenly dispersed throughout the coating. The photomicrograph at the left shows this dispersion. A good way to visualize the coating is to think of it as cement. The silicon carbide in NSC performs the function of the wear surface and is represented by the rocks. The nickel in NSC would represent the mortar that holds everything together.

Why is Silicon Carbide used?
Silicon carbide is used partly for its uniform particle size, and partly for its hardness. Silicon carbide is second only to diamonds in hardness and therefore provides excellent wear characteristics. The reason diamonds cannot be used is their high cost and the fact that we would have no way to hone it. NSC particle size is a Gaussian distribution of about 3 microns. This size is important so that the coating will not affect the internal components of the engine and too large of a particle will affect ring wear. Another major reason that silicon carbide is used is that it is oleofilic or it has a natural tendency to absorb oil, which in turn helps the oil retention of the coating.

Is all nickel plating the same?
No. The coating Millennium uses is made up of a special type of nickel that bonds the silicon carbide particles together as well as to the aluminum substructure. We will not cut corners by using the generic nickel that some plating companies use. Millennium also strictly prohibits the use of any additives to artificially harden our coating. Use of generic nickel or these additives can result in poor adhesion or abnormal wear. Hardness of the nickel is very important. If too soft the coating will prematurely wear, and if too hard ring life and compatibility will be negatively affected.

How is it honed, and what do you use?
Due to the hardness of the coating and its silicon carbide content, we must use diamonds to hone the cylinder bore. Diamonds alone will not do the job correctly. Special honing tools and honing machines are also important. We have our own design of honing tool ensuring that all our bores are straight and round within ± .00025". We are also capable of much tighter tolerances in necessary situations. Instead of horizontal hones, we use only vertical hones to ensure that the cylinder bore is square with the deck and that it receives a uniform crosshatch.
Charlie
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Offline Mark West

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Re: Lario rehab project begins
« Reply #74 on: December 16, 2012, 06:29:48 PM »
Another nice attribute of Silicon Carbide is it's heat conductivity. Many times greater than steel, Al, or other metals. It also has almost no reactivity with just about any chemical.
We use it for high purity chemical heating for stuff that isn't compatible with quartz. Amazing but damn expensive and very difficult to machine.
Mark West
Hollister, CA
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Offcamber1

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Re: Lario rehab project begins
« Reply #75 on: December 16, 2012, 06:56:34 PM »
The internet is a wonderful thing. Straight from Denmark, a stud and a couple of nuts for the Lario. Just magically appeared in my mailbox.

You know, if I didn't know better I would be alarmed by this sentence. ~; ~;

Offline Stormtruck2

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Re: Lario rehab project begins
« Reply #76 on: December 16, 2012, 07:22:07 PM »
You know, if I didn't know better I would be alarmed by this sentence. ~; ~;

Are you sure you DO know better?? ;) :D ~; ~;
If you wish to know what a man is, place in him authority.
False accusations reflect more on the accuser than the accused.
They can take everything from you, including your life, except your honor and integrity.  That you must give away.
Do or don't do. There is no try.
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Offline kevdog3019

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Re: Lario rehab project begins
« Reply #77 on: December 16, 2012, 08:42:04 PM »
Are you sure you DO know better?? ;) :D ~; ~;
I'd like to know who the stud is?  I only know of the nuts.  :P
K
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'85 Honda Nighthawk 700s
'86 V65 Lario

Offline Stormtruck2

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Re: Lario rehab project begins
« Reply #78 on: December 16, 2012, 09:29:14 PM »
Nice collection of them on WG.  :P ~; :D
If you wish to know what a man is, place in him authority.
False accusations reflect more on the accuser than the accused.
They can take everything from you, including your life, except your honor and integrity.  That you must give away.
Do or don't do. There is no try.
μολὼν λαβέ-molṑn labé

Offline IceBlue

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Re: Lario rehab project begins
« Reply #79 on: December 17, 2012, 08:03:21 AM »
Nice collection of them on WG.  :P ~; :D

 :D :D :D ;-T
Do you dare pop a name or two - me running the risk of being one of them  ;D :D ;-T :BEER:
Copenhagen Denmark - http://www.facebook.com/motoguzzilario

750 Targa - long legged younger sister of the Lario
V65 Lario - Short legged total brat
V65 Lario - Silver Streak
V35C - Smallest Guzzi cruiser
V75C - (project)
V75/4 - (project)

misterg

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Re: Lario rehab project begins
« Reply #80 on: December 17, 2012, 06:41:03 PM »


Straight from Denmark, a stud and a couple of nuts for the Lario. Just magically appeared in my mailbox.

You know, if I didn't know better I would be alarmed by this sentence. ~; ~;

Beat me to it, I was thinking that post was begging for a smart-ass comment!  Something along the lines of "It's amazing what you can get mail ( or is that male?) -order these days!"

Thanks for this excellent thread-- enjoying it thoroughly!   ;-T   :pop  

All this recent Lario activity on the WG forum has really rekindled my love for the little beast.  Bought her as a new leftover in '88 and never a regret since.  I wonder how many other original Lario owners are out there?
« Last Edit: December 17, 2012, 06:44:22 PM by misterg »

Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Lario rehab project begins
« Reply #81 on: December 17, 2012, 06:59:25 PM »
Quote
Thanks for this excellent thread-- enjoying it thoroughly!       

Thanks for that. It's hard to tell whether it's a waste of time or not when you're doing it, but I'd like to see more of it. Some of the things I've sifted from the net have been invaluable to me, and I'm just trying to give back. NOT that I'm even in the same universe as some of the *real* Guzzi guys that post here. ;D
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal

02 Scura RC
87 AeroLario
79 G5
95 Skorpion tour
 
I think senility is going to be a fairly smooth transition for me..

Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Lario rehab project begins
« Reply #82 on: January 17, 2013, 11:14:53 AM »
Ok, back at it after an extended vacation and then ww ww work when I returned home.  ;D Finished that job yesterday.
A single edge razor blade makes short work of the leftover gasket that the gasket remover spooge and scraper didn't get.

Install the cylinder base gasket, not forgetting the oil delivery o ring at the top..

I had previously only ran the piston out of the cylinder just enough to remove the wrist pin, so all we need to do here is reinstall it. Some oil on the bushing, careful alignment, and the wrist pin goes in with a light tap fit. Support the piston/rod assy with your other hand as you're doing this.

Install *new* circlips.. wouldn't want to trash the engine because a used circlip came loose. I always install them with the open end toward the crankshaft..

Then slide the cylinder assy down, install the new head gasket, and the locator bushing at the lower right. More about that later.. ::)

An STP/motor oil mixture on the ends of the pushrods. We have kept all the parts going back in the same orientation as they came off.. right?

Oops, almost forgot. Iceblue's valves need lash caps. Put those on before the valve train. Back the adjusters all the way out so they won't interfere with torquing the head down. Make sure the pushrods are in the cups by turning them.

Guzziology sez.. torque the 4 studs to 20 foot lbs, then the smaller one. Bring it up to 25 ft lbs in the same manner, then let it sit overnight. After it's done that, torque in the same manner to 25 ft. lbs again, and then bring the 4 big studs to 30. Can do.
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal

02 Scura RC
87 AeroLario
79 G5
95 Skorpion tour
 
I think senility is going to be a fairly smooth transition for me..

Offline IceBlue

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Re: Lario rehab project begins
« Reply #83 on: January 17, 2013, 11:40:25 AM »
All this recent Lario activity on the WG forum has really rekindled my love for the little beast.  Bought her as a new leftover in '88 and never a regret since.  I wonder how many other original Lario owners are out there?

Not many, I'm not one, and most likely ditched it, after the first valve drop, which happens from fast to soon on most, if not mod'ed. Hold on to her. The interest for Lario's seems to heat up slowly but surely.  ;-T

Ciao
Copenhagen Denmark - http://www.facebook.com/motoguzzilario

750 Targa - long legged younger sister of the Lario
V65 Lario - Short legged total brat
V65 Lario - Silver Streak
V35C - Smallest Guzzi cruiser
V75C - (project)
V75/4 - (project)

Offline IceBlue

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Re: Lario rehab project begins
« Reply #84 on: January 17, 2013, 11:41:05 AM »
Thanks for keeping the thread alive Chuck  ;-T
Copenhagen Denmark - http://www.facebook.com/motoguzzilario

750 Targa - long legged younger sister of the Lario
V65 Lario - Short legged total brat
V65 Lario - Silver Streak
V35C - Smallest Guzzi cruiser
V75C - (project)
V75/4 - (project)

Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Lario rehab project begins
« Reply #85 on: January 17, 2013, 04:08:35 PM »
Ya know that locator bushing? Couldn't find one for the head that had the beat up cylinder. Did I misplace it? Did it fall to the floor and roll into a parallel dimension, never to be seen again? Was it not installed by the previous person that put it together with the beat up cylinder? ~; That's my guess.  ;D At any rate, I wrote down the dimensions of the good one before I installed the S cylinder, rummaged through my pile of "good" junk and found a piece of steel that was about right.

Cut away everything that didn't look like a locator bushing.. ;D

And will be ready to do the D cylinder tomorrow..
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal

02 Scura RC
87 AeroLario
79 G5
95 Skorpion tour
 
I think senility is going to be a fairly smooth transition for me..

Offline kevdog3019

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Re: Lario rehab project begins
« Reply #86 on: January 17, 2013, 04:16:32 PM »
Nice!  ;-T  Been there before myself.  This is a great thread.  We sure have some cool Lario stuff going on right now.  One guy fixing up a stocker, another modifying a stocker to a rocker, and yet another making his own late model into an 8 valver.  Splendid stuff!  :o Where else can you get this kind of entertainment?  ;-T  
-Kevin
'86 V65 "Super" Lario
'85 Honda Nighthawk 700s
'86 V65 Lario

Offline balvenie

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Re: Lario rehab project begins
« Reply #87 on: January 17, 2013, 08:56:27 PM »
Where else can you get this kind of entertainment?  ;-T  
-Kevin

               +1 ;-T
Oz
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As ye practice, so do ye teach.

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Re: Lario rehab project begins
« Reply #88 on: January 17, 2013, 10:28:28 PM »
I'm following with great interest as I have never seen a 4 valve Guzzi opened up.
Are the rocker arms bronze, copper plated, or?

Offline IceBlue

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Re: Lario rehab project begins
« Reply #89 on: January 18, 2013, 01:28:31 AM »
Nice!    Splendid stuff!  :o Where else can you get this kind of entertainment?  ;-T  
-Kevin

 :+1  :pop  ;-T
Copenhagen Denmark - http://www.facebook.com/motoguzzilario

750 Targa - long legged younger sister of the Lario
V65 Lario - Short legged total brat
V65 Lario - Silver Streak
V35C - Smallest Guzzi cruiser
V75C - (project)
V75/4 - (project)

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