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Yes, I will just stay under 8K, she pulls hard all the way up there, no real need to wind her up any more.I did a lot of experimenting with my air/fuel ratios when I first got the reflash/PCV/AT. I set the target air fuel ratio at 5 to 20 percent throttle at 13.4:1, then left the higher throttle positions richer at 13.2:1. I was looking for good fuel economy in the cruise range, then good response above that. It worked ok, but I could tell she needed more gas down low. I finally went with 13.2:1 AFR across the whole map as a target for the AutoTune. That worked really well. I guess my point is, these four valve engines like the gas! Lol. Running a little lean just doesn't cut it.Sounds like your bike with the bigger cam and valves would like that.Yep, ride ride ride, that's my plan too! It will be fun to find out how yours really runs once she's dialed in.My impression on the low side pull, under 4k, is that it is effortless now. When I went for my first ride, that was the first thing I noticed. It was dramatic, seemed like I was going downhill all the time. You know how that feels? I noticed that I really had to watch my speed in town. I would leave a stop sign and give it the same throttle that I was used to, then realize I was going way to fast, like 60 in a 45 zone, and have to back out of it. So to answer your question, yes, it felt bigger. Like a different motorcycle. Yeah, I'm done with the two valve stuff now. I really was not sure how different it would be. If it would even be worth it. I realize too that I am enthusiastic about it, that I have to be objective in my observations. That is another reason I'm planning a Dyno run to dial it in. Get some real numbers on paper.You know, thinking about looking at horsepower and torque figures for a bike. The numbers seem to be just a general guide for what to expect. I am not smart enough to do the math, but it seems like there should be a coefficient number for quickness of acceleration vs the reciprocating mass of the engine.I say that because of what I noticed between the two and four valve engines. Just the ease of the power coming in....Of course I might be full of crap too! LOL. Either way, it's all fun!60 degrees and sunny yesterday. Today is 25 and snow. Sheesh...
Oh I hear you on the butt dyno thing and torque. Mine is so lightened with the Carrilo's and flywheel that it pulls well downstairs and feels much bigger (that's certainly not ONLY due to lightening) and pulls away from a stop with hardly any gas and just goes. The dyno only said an increase of 15%, but that's not what I'm getting at the seat. Who knows as Ed's dyno was on the fritz and torque numbers were hard to read period he said, and he spent many sessions trying to get things to come up right. At any rate, I don't care what the readings are. The difference is in street riding the thing. Yeah... I wish there was more to the story than just numbers for torque and hp. Lightening makes things happen quicker, but that's not torque but sure acts like torque. Hmmm...If your next project is anything what you say, that could get the Heron head moving pretty good. So much for saying the Heron head can't be dealt with successfully. Side note: Folks want more horse power in the small block. I know I've poo poo'd it recently, but my ONLY gripe is not true hp figures but what can be had with 4-valve heads. Your experiment has proven successful in showing what kind of real-world performance can come from Guzzi's current mill with 4-valve heads. The actual hp gains may not prove exceptionally different, but it is exceptionally different. Behaviorally they are two different beasts. They should have made the "racer" with those heads.
I realize too that I am enthusiastic about it, that I have to be objective in my observations.
I tried very hard to do that when I first took the Aero engine out for a putt. I have no clue why Guzzi hasn't been putting the aero heads on the small block since the 90s. ~; I'm fully aware that they gave up on the 4 valves, but the aero heads *are* an improvement, and they have the freakin tooling fer heavensakes. <shrug> I'm *not* trying to rain on your parade. I love the 4 valve performance, too.Shufflin off, now.
Hi, guys. I have been following both the Aero and Lario builds with interest and excitement. Nevertheless, I'm kinda confused. I thought both were hemi heads with the combustion in the head rather than in the piston...ala Heron head. It would seem to me that a hemi head 4 valve small block would be the cat's meow. If you punched it out to 830, so much the better. Still, having the gasses flow better seems to be a no brainer. You guys seem to have unleashed the hidden genie in the small block so what, in your mind, is the secret to a better small block?Peter Y.FWIW, you guys rock!
If you read the threads Grasshopper, the secret(s) lies before you. ???
The 2 valve hemi head has a combustion chamber that does not encourage good burning, sort of an orange peel section when the piston is at tdc, so it would be very hard to keep up with emissions while controlling temperature.The 4 valve has a pent-roof chamber, a la Cosworth and most modern engines, good mixing on intake, etc., so the future of performance for new bikes lies there.
Yes, I will keep her under 7500 rpm! My goal now, with this bike, is to prove the reliability of the valve train. I am confident this build will last. Planning on a lot of riding this summer, trips to Memphis, Colorado, and California. The miles will add up quickly:)I do want to pursue another build later, starting next winter.What I have in mind, just for fun, is to take a single TB engine, a 2013 model or later, and really hot rod it. Put on some 850 cylinders with Arias pistons, titanium pushrods and valve keepers. Lightweight Carillo connecting rods and a lightened flywheel. Four valve heads. See about getting a custom rocker arm assembly built, perhaps titanium.Also go with a custom cam. Ha ha, that will be a fun ride. Might take a while to get it all together..lolI hope your winter is over soon Brian, maybe you can get your Silver Streak going!I sent Martin an EBay link to a Lario engine. It will not ship to other countries, but maybe he could use it.http://www.ebay.com/itm/moto-guzzi-v65-lario-motorgehuse-/161607624924Anyway, good to hear from you!Cheers.
but suffered the same issues as the Lario
That's why it didn't take too much prodding for me to go to southern Alabama and bring home the Aero engine. It's had literally thousands of hours of running at 5500 rpm in the Mideast "testing" program. ;D
What you did Mike was actually making an updated verson of the original 8V V75/4 mill from 1986. That engine claims 65hp on the crank @7.300rpm (I have one in my workshop waiting to get tested on my Targa - when time allowes) - but suffered the same issues as the Lario and Imola II - so Guzzi dropped the 8V concept all together. Interesting when you get her on a Dyno, although this is not a rock solid indicator of a bikes power, it can be used as compareson if you had a 4V (2V) version to compare her to :)
Too bad instead of designing completely new 2 valve heads, they just didn't "test" the 4 valve heads in a similar fashion until all of the bugs were worked out of them. That could have changed the history of Guzzi - the whole V7 series, Breva onwards, might not have been considered "underpowered" or at least not by as much.
All dynos are not created the same..
Any more rides Mike? I'm smitten with FI 8 valve you've thought up. That video you shot tells it all. Straight up! How about more pics of the bike??
Ive been riding it every day its not raining or snowing. Got about 400 miles on it since the conversion. Todd @ Guzzitech has been a huge help getting the fuel dialed in. I think it is just about perfect now. Going to do an online tuning session this Saturday, and call it good. It runs a lot better now, more power than before. Thinking about borrowing a friends GoPro and doing another speed run this Saturday. Think it will do 120 no problem, maybe bump 130.I'll post it up for fun. I'll go take a pic and post it. I redid the tank paint, and put 750S decals on...I think it looks good now.Cheers Man!
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