Author Topic: Aero engine rescue  (Read 340743 times)

Offline Chuck in Indiana

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 28535
Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #150 on: October 21, 2014, 08:45:22 AM »
Ah... just cafe it Chuck. Better yet, make it a bobber.  :P

Uhh, won't happen.  ;D
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal

02 Scura RC
87 AeroLario
95 Skorpion tour
 "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
Albert Einstein

Offline IceBlue

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 4420
  • Where words fail, music speaks. H. C. Andersen
    • Moto Guzzi Lario Fan Site
Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #151 on: October 28, 2014, 12:50:22 AM »
As much as I hate to.. I'm having a good time with the 8 valve and Iceblue's valves.. when the time comes, I'll use the long block from the Aero engine and the rest of the pieces from the Lario engine and put it into the Lario. I've decided that what I don't need is another motorcycle to maintain, license, insure, etc. Unfortunately, it looks to me with some rudimentary measuring that the Lario "wings" won't fit, and the chin fairing for sure won't fit. That takes away some of the styling cues of the Lario that I really like.

Belgium solved the multiple vehicle issue. The license plate and insurance follows the owner, so you can actually move the license plate between vehicles as longs as they are the same class of vehicle and they are road worthy, as I understand their system. Smart - and makes sense, you can only ride/drive one vehicle at the time.

Some one from Belgium please straighten me out in case I'm off the wall here  :)
Copenhagen Denmark - http://www.facebook.com/motoguzzilario

750 Targa - long legged younger sister of the Lario
V65 Lario - Short legged total brat
V65 Lario - Silver Streak
V35C - Smallest Guzzi cruiser
V75C - (project)
V75/4 - (project)

Online Kiwi_Roy

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 9222
  • Location: New Westminster BC
Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #152 on: October 28, 2014, 10:38:46 AM »
To flip the heads around that would also mean the exhaust cam is now the inlet cam.
But if you run it backwards the valves would open in the right order
Flip the final drive and gearbox over to get the right rotation.
Now if you can just figure out the oil pump.
 :bike   :+=copcar
72 Eldorado
17 V7iii Special
76 Convert

Moto Guzzi - making electricians out of riders since March 15 1921

Offline kckershovel

  • Guzzi Mentor
  • ****
  • Posts: 811
Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #153 on: October 28, 2014, 07:26:23 PM »
http://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/mcy/4735898464.html

Hey Chuck do you want to go in half on these? I figure the blue v50 would be a good aero mill swap candidate. I want parts off of the black one for my project. Let me know if you are interested. 

Wildgoose Chase Moto Guzzi

Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #153 on: October 28, 2014, 07:26:23 PM »

Offline Chuck in Indiana

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 28535
Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #154 on: October 28, 2014, 07:40:23 PM »
http://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/mcy/4735898464.html

Hey Chuck do you want to go in half on these? I figure the blue v50 would be a good aero mill swap candidate. I want parts off of the black one for my project. Let me know if you are interested. 

Sorry. I would have been interested a few days ago, but a lister just offered me his pretty decent V65 for free. (Guzzi content) He thinks.. as I do.. that the aero engine project needs to get moving. Naturally, I just couldn't say thanks for the fish, take it and leave.. so maybe when I'm done playing with it he can have it back.  ;D Or maybe we can make it a joint project.  :o Always have like those..   ;)
Right now, Dorcia is battling some health issues..  :( so projects are on the back burner. We'll know more before long.
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal

02 Scura RC
87 AeroLario
95 Skorpion tour
 "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
Albert Einstein

Online Stormtruck2

  • AKA Scotch and Cigars
  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 5926
  • Geese Fly in a Proper V
Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #155 on: October 28, 2014, 07:49:01 PM »
We are keeping Dorcia in our prayers that what ever the problems may be, that they be minor and easy to rectify.
If you wish to know what a man is, place in him authority.
False accusations reflect more on the accuser than the accused.
They can take everything from you, including your life, except your honor and integrity.  That you must give away.
Do or don't do. There is no try.
μολὼν λαβέ-molṑn labé

Offline kckershovel

  • Guzzi Mentor
  • ****
  • Posts: 811
Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #156 on: October 28, 2014, 09:34:03 PM »
I hope things work out for the two of you. I wish for positive news. I'm glad you found a vessel for the aero motor even if it is on hold for the moment. Keep in touch.

Offline LowRyter

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 15653
  • Location: Edmond OK
Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #157 on: October 28, 2014, 10:42:11 PM »
best wishes to Dorcia and you. 
John L 
When life gets you down remember it's one down and the rest are up.  (1-N-23456)

Offline Chuck in Indiana

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 28535
Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #158 on: October 29, 2014, 05:28:42 AM »
We are keeping Dorcia in our prayers that what ever the problems may be, that they be minor and easy to rectify.

Thanks, Matt. She has breast cancer. I've always said that if you look for problems on an old machine you'll find them.  ;) Probably the same with people. When they were checking out the cancer, they found a spot on her lung. (!) Fortunately, it was benign, but when checking out the spot on her lung, found an aneurysm. (!) Still trying to get into a cardiologist to check that out this week. Need to find out how much that will affect the surgery. Oh. BTW, she had an abscess from an old root canal, and had to get that cleared up before surgery, too. Did that yesterday.
She's still upbeat, but it's just been one thing after another... :P
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal

02 Scura RC
87 AeroLario
95 Skorpion tour
 "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
Albert Einstein

Offline kckershovel

  • Guzzi Mentor
  • ****
  • Posts: 811
Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #159 on: October 29, 2014, 09:45:42 AM »
    I keep trying to type something about a restoration or tune up but everything I type sounds insensitive or worse. Just know I  have an understanding of what you are going through having 3 of my close family (grandmother,mother and mother in law) All fight the big C in the last few years. I look forward to seeing the two of you after all this is past and things are more back to normal. Hopefully we can go on a ride in the spring. Let me know if you want a hand with anything or someone to chat and wrench with. I'm just up the road and have plenty of free time. 

Offline Chuck in Indiana

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 28535
Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #160 on: October 29, 2014, 09:50:38 AM »
Thanks, Nathan..
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal

02 Scura RC
87 AeroLario
95 Skorpion tour
 "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
Albert Einstein

Offline Chuck in Indiana

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 28535
Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #161 on: November 15, 2014, 02:37:52 PM »
Started having a look at the Aero engine.. tagging various stuff. I had visions of hooking up a battery and fuel pump, making a test club out of Mouser's duff prop, and running it, but had an attack of common sense.  ;D All I'd be doing is wasting time, and I don't want to spend all Winter on this project. Looking at the color of my hair  ::) I need to get started on my last airplane project sooner, rather than later..  ;D
So, let's get at this.



However, I don't know what this is..I've never fooled with the early Guzzi computer stuff

Likewise this.. I'm *guessing* it is an absolute pressure sender?

Here's how they picked up oil temp.

The redrive unit is pretty elegant. Doesn't weigh squat. *Somebody* that plays with ultralight airplanes wants this..


Propellers are a very difficult load on redrives. Many have tried with blown up gears as a result. Here's Guzzi's engineering solution.. ;-T

I'll continue on the tear down after a bit. By the way, the plugs are a Bosch fine wire W3Cs.. ever heard of them? Doesn't ring a bell with me..
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal

02 Scura RC
87 AeroLario
95 Skorpion tour
 "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
Albert Einstein

Offline Mark West

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3848
  • Get Lost.... it's good for you!
Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #162 on: November 15, 2014, 03:15:11 PM »
The blue component appears to be an analog pressure sensor. 100Kpa (kilopascals) would be 1 Bar or ~14.5PSI. I would guess that is the max scale it can read. Seems to be many variations of the same basic part

http://www.competitionsystems.co.uk/uploads/mediacentre/20100524023901-PRT02_03_06.pdf
Mark West
Hollister, CA
MGNOC L-752

Offline Chuck in Indiana

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 28535
Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #163 on: November 15, 2014, 04:09:25 PM »
The blue component appears to be an analog pressure sensor. 100Kpa (kilopascals) would be 1 Bar or ~14.5PSI. I would guess that is the max scale it can read. Seems to be many variations of the same basic part

http://www.competitionsystems.co.uk/uploads/mediacentre/20100524023901-PRT02_03_06.pdf

Thanks for that, Mark. I thought maybe that was what it was. I'll tag it anyway in case someone wants to fool with this stuff some day. There's no way that the harness could be used in a motorcycle, though.
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal

02 Scura RC
87 AeroLario
95 Skorpion tour
 "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
Albert Einstein

Offline organfixsing

  • Sunday Rider
  • **
  • *
  • Posts: 163
  • Location: ROMA Queensland Australia
Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #164 on: November 15, 2014, 04:50:48 PM »
G'day Chuck
Bosch W3C are equivalent to NGK B9ES which equates to 14mm thread, 3/4" reach, quite clod (2 = hot, 11= cold),2.5mm dia centre electrode. There are lots of equivalents in many brands.

Interesting project, wish you well in this. I hope Dorcia has a good outcome after all the hassles you are both going through.

Cheers
Brian  :)
If you remove the wings of a fly, does that make it a walk?

Offline Chuck in Indiana

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 28535
Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #165 on: November 15, 2014, 05:06:13 PM »
G'day Chuck
Bosch W3C are equivalent to NGK B9ES which equates to 14mm thread, 3/4" reach, quite clod (2 = hot, 11= cold),2.5mm dia centre electrode. There are lots of equivalents in many brands.

Interesting project, wish you well in this. I hope Dorcia has a good outcome after all the hassles you are both going through.

Cheers
Brian  :)
G'day to you, Brian.  ;D Thanks. Airplane engines run really hard, so that may be why it is a clod one.  ;D  Someone should do a brazillion dollar study on why old farts left and right fingers suddenly change sides. <shrug> Beats me, but I do it all the itme.  ;D
I'll measure it tomorrow, but I'm sure that the electrode on this one is less than 2.5mm by eyeball measurement , though.
And seriously, thanks for hte  ::) well wishes. We'll know a lot more Dec. 9.
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal

02 Scura RC
87 AeroLario
95 Skorpion tour
 "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
Albert Einstein

Offline pauldaytona

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2524
    • Paul's fast Guzzi Page
Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #166 on: November 16, 2014, 04:23:00 AM »
Well Chuck, question is, does the center engine piece fit the front cover from a v65, or as last resort, can the cylinders and crank get transplantated on to motorcycle engine. 
Paul

Daytona 1225, Stelvio 1151





Download Guzzidiag here: http://www.von-der-salierburg.de/download/GuzziDiag/

Offline Chuck in Indiana

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 28535
Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #167 on: November 16, 2014, 05:42:19 AM »
Well Chuck, question is, does the center engine piece fit the front cover from a v65, or as last resort, can the cylinders and crank get transplantated on to motorcycle engine. 

Well, everything *appears* to be stock Guzzi, but we won't actually know for a bit. Stay tuned..don't touch that dial.  ;D
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal

02 Scura RC
87 AeroLario
95 Skorpion tour
 "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
Albert Einstein

Offline rocker59

  • Global Moderator
  • Guzzi Hero
  • *
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 23601
  • "diplomatico di moto"
  • Location: NW Arkansas
Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #168 on: November 16, 2014, 09:46:27 AM »
Well, everything *appears* to be stock Guzzi, but we won't actually know for a bit. Stay tuned..don't touch that dial.  ;D

 :pop
Michael T.
Aux Arcs
1996 Moto Guzzi Sport 1100
"Do what you can, with what you have, where you are." - Theodore Roosevelt

Offline Chuck in Indiana

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 28535
Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #169 on: November 16, 2014, 02:05:35 PM »
As I mentioned before, Luigi has learned to safety fasteners, and he's darn good at it. I've been in the pits at motorcycle races, and most don't have a clue about safety wiring.  ;D

Even the electrical connections are safetied. This is some heavy thread that is much like the stuff aircraft wiring used to be cabled up with..

More parts is parts. The throttle bodies are 37 mm btw. I'm thinking 36 mm carbs ought to be ok.

The last of the sensors are tagged, so we're ready to get the engine out of there.

Rolled the engine building bench back in the shop, brought in the cherry picker, hooked up some airplane tie down rope..

Loosened up the hardware..... and my timer went off. Gotta go into the house and stir the pot for dinner. Indiana MGNOC reps Andy and Mary are coming for dinner, and bringing a pair of 36 mm big block intakes. Maybe we'll see if they happen to fit after a bit..
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal

02 Scura RC
87 AeroLario
95 Skorpion tour
 "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
Albert Einstein

Offline Chuck in Indiana

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 28535
Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #170 on: November 16, 2014, 03:33:42 PM »
Uh oh.. first snag. Pulled the intake casting off.

The casting for 36s has a smaller bolt circle. I checked Rosie's, and just by scaling it seems to be too small, too. I wonder if the 750 Targa casting would fit this head? How about it, you guys from Yurp?? Any info?

I *can* make up a new flange, and weld it to the carb casting, but I'd rather just buy something if it's available..
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal

02 Scura RC
87 AeroLario
95 Skorpion tour
 "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
Albert Einstein

Offline pauldaytona

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2524
    • Paul's fast Guzzi Page
Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #171 on: November 16, 2014, 05:14:09 PM »
why not use the part you have with the engine, in the rubber will fit something
Paul

Daytona 1225, Stelvio 1151





Download Guzzidiag here: http://www.von-der-salierburg.de/download/GuzziDiag/

Offline Chuck in Indiana

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 28535
Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #172 on: November 16, 2014, 06:08:11 PM »
why not use the part you have with the engine, in the rubber will fit something

It goes straight back.. there's no way that the carbs would clear you legs.
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal

02 Scura RC
87 AeroLario
95 Skorpion tour
 "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
Albert Einstein

Online Antietam Classic Cycle

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 12484
  • Happily stuck in the past.
    • Antietam Classic Cycle
  • Location: Rohrersville, Maryland
Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #173 on: November 16, 2014, 06:14:00 PM »
It goes straight back.. there's no way that the carbs would clear you legs.

Rotax uses curved rubbers and they fit Dellortos. Might be an idea. I can find a source if you'd like.
Charlie

Offline jacksonracingcomau

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2219
Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #174 on: November 16, 2014, 07:09:28 PM »
It goes straight back.. there's no way that the carbs would clear you legs.

On BB engine straight manifolds with 36mm carbs quite common, you can tilt carb inward at top to get clearance for knees, worth dummying up on your Lario to check, straight is better if you can get away with it, angled filters easy

Offline Chuck in Indiana

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 28535
Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #175 on: November 17, 2014, 11:29:23 AM »
Rotax uses curved rubbers and they fit Dellortos. Might be an idea. I can find a source if you'd like.

Don't go to any trouble yet, Charlie.. Thanks!
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal

02 Scura RC
87 AeroLario
95 Skorpion tour
 "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
Albert Einstein

Offline Chuck in Indiana

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 28535
Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #176 on: November 17, 2014, 11:31:28 AM »
On BB engine straight manifolds with 36mm carbs quite common, you can tilt carb inward at top to get clearance for knees, worth dummying up on your Lario to check, straight is better if you can get away with it, angled filters easy

How many degrees from vertical can you go, roughly?
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal

02 Scura RC
87 AeroLario
95 Skorpion tour
 "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
Albert Einstein

Offline Chuck in Indiana

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 28535
Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #177 on: November 17, 2014, 01:39:14 PM »
Well if worse comes to worse.. I can always put it back together.  ;D :BEER:

Big hummer 55 amp Bosch alternator. Check out the kool cush drive.

It's driven by these rubber inserts.  ;-T

Here's the timing gizmo that is bolted to the end of the cam. Equally spaced tits on the back, one on the front. I'm *assuming* the same as the crank and cam sensor on the old injection models.

I always say buy the best tools you can afford. Back in the day, this is all I could afford, but it did and still does the job.  ::)

Someone say "Oh, yeah.. that's the way the crank nose on the injected small blocks look, and the stock alternator will bolt right up."

Time to have a peek up her skirt. Back later with some small block porn..
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal

02 Scura RC
87 AeroLario
95 Skorpion tour
 "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
Albert Einstein

Offline pauldaytona

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2524
    • Paul's fast Guzzi Page
Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #178 on: November 17, 2014, 02:16:25 PM »
Looks like Guzzi made the engines, and Hunter or a subcontractor did the rest.  I've never had a smallblock but suppose they have the same generation alternator as the big blocks, and then the small nose will fit.

Did you get any parts manual with it or other documentation? 
Paul

Daytona 1225, Stelvio 1151





Download Guzzidiag here: http://www.von-der-salierburg.de/download/GuzziDiag/

Offline rocker59

  • Global Moderator
  • Guzzi Hero
  • *
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 23601
  • "diplomatico di moto"
  • Location: NW Arkansas
Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #179 on: November 17, 2014, 02:40:34 PM »
Looks like Guzzi made the engines, and Hunter or a subcontractor did the rest.  I've never had a smallblock but suppose they have the same generation alternator as the big blocks, and then the small nose will fit.

Did you get any parts manual with it or other documentation? 

Hunter (IAI RQ-5 Hunter) was the name of the drone.  The aircraft was developed by IAI and TRW (now part of Grumman).

 
Michael T.
Aux Arcs
1996 Moto Guzzi Sport 1100
"Do what you can, with what you have, where you are." - Theodore Roosevelt

***Wildguzzi Official Logo High Quality 5 Color Window Decals Back In Stock***
Shipping in USA Only. Awesome quality. Back by popular demand. All proceeds go back into the forum.
http://www.wildguzzi.com/Products/products.htm
Advertise Here
 


Harper's Moto Guzzi : Go Ride , Break Parts, Call me!
Harper's Moto Guzzi. Where we still answer the phone, use the highest quality parts, and also do Transmission, rear drive, and carb rebuilds fast. Call us at 816.697.3411 and get your problems resolved.
http://www.harpermoto.com
Advertise Here