Author Topic: Aero engine rescue  (Read 340935 times)

Cheese

  • Guest
Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #60 on: October 29, 2013, 12:12:02 PM »
On the other hand, if there are more than several of these things being "retired" then they may be obtainable at auction or other millitary outlet?

Peter

they were never very numerous..

http://www.designation-systems.net/dusrm/m-155.html


Offline rocker59

  • Global Moderator
  • Guzzi Hero
  • *
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 23604
  • "diplomatico di moto"
  • Location: NW Arkansas
Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #61 on: October 29, 2013, 12:44:53 PM »
they were never very numerous..

http://www.designation-systems.net/dusrm/m-155.html



"a total of 56 UAVs had been delivered" when the BQM-155A program was discontinued.

That's 112 engines out there.  Plenty of fodder for our little group's needs!

 :bike
Michael T.
Aux Arcs
1996 Moto Guzzi Sport 1100
"Do what you can, with what you have, where you are." - Theodore Roosevelt

Offline IceBlue

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 4420
  • Where words fail, music speaks. H. C. Andersen
    • Moto Guzzi Lario Fan Site
Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #62 on: October 29, 2013, 01:27:03 PM »
The last time one was one the Craigslist it was around 5000$ if my memory serves me right.

The Ippo/Hunter mill is rare and a real steel at 1400$

Go Go Go Chuck!! ;-T
New project  :pop

Best 2V 750 SB mill ever made by Guzzi - only the gods know why they don't use it in the V7 line of bikes.

The 8V V75 mill claims 65hp
The Ippo/Hunter 4V mill claims 63hp
The V7 improved 4V mill claims 51hp  :-\
Ciao
« Last Edit: October 29, 2013, 01:29:40 PM by IceBlue »
Copenhagen Denmark - http://www.facebook.com/motoguzzilario

750 Targa - long legged younger sister of the Lario
V65 Lario - Short legged total brat
V65 Lario - Silver Streak
V35C - Smallest Guzzi cruiser
V75C - (project)
V75/4 - (project)

Offline Chuck in Indiana

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 28540
Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #63 on: October 29, 2013, 01:58:29 PM »
Well, I'm headed to Alabama this weekend.  ;D Looks to me like it has a computer.. ;D ;D and just might run the correct direction. ;D ;D ;D We'll see....

Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal

02 Scura RC
87 AeroLario
95 Skorpion tour
 "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
Albert Einstein

Wildgoose Chase Moto Guzzi

Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #63 on: October 29, 2013, 01:58:29 PM »

Offline Unkept

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2209
    • Unkept Uncaged- Youtube Channel
Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #64 on: October 29, 2013, 02:03:35 PM »
Chuck, pardon my language, but that thing is Badass!  ;-T Love it.

-Joe

Offline rocker59

  • Global Moderator
  • Guzzi Hero
  • *
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 23604
  • "diplomatico di moto"
  • Location: NW Arkansas
Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #65 on: October 29, 2013, 02:08:14 PM »
Chuck, pardon my language, but that thing is Badass!  ;-T Love it.

-Joe

 :+1

 ;-T

(now watch Guzzi show up at EICMA this weekend with a V7R powered by the aero engine!)   ;)
Michael T.
Aux Arcs
1996 Moto Guzzi Sport 1100
"Do what you can, with what you have, where you are." - Theodore Roosevelt

Online LowRyter

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 15667
  • Location: Edmond OK
Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #66 on: October 29, 2013, 02:13:29 PM »
With the military changing over to diesel power (so that everything can run off a single fuel, Jet-A civilian fuel, or JP-5 (I think) military fuel), the Guzzi powered ones will be, if they haven't already been, converted to diesel or retired.   Once that happens, there is no need for spares, and Guzzi will likely "retire" the tooling.   Maybe we should get them to do one last run of heads for us before they do that.    ::) :BEER:


You might contact Northup Grummon to check for surplus engines.  They has the support contract for the Army (Huntsville AL IIRC).    I think the Isrealis (OEM) still uses the Guzzi Petrol engines.

I might add, before I retired as an AF civilian one of the programs my shop ran was a Foreign Military Program supporting Cessna 172 aircraft.  These airplane were converted to Theilert Diesel engines.  There is an entire soap opera to it but is a quite a challenge considering the aircraft.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2013, 02:15:34 PM by LowRyter »
John L 
When life gets you down remember it's one down and the rest are up.  (1-N-23456)

Offline Chuck in Indiana

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 28540
Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #67 on: October 29, 2013, 02:22:31 PM »
I've never seen this way of holding a propeller. Just a coarse knurl on the prop hub, and a big hunker nut to squeeze it all together.  :o No prop bolts at all.
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal

02 Scura RC
87 AeroLario
95 Skorpion tour
 "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
Albert Einstein

oldbike54

  • Guest
Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #68 on: October 29, 2013, 02:26:58 PM »
I've never seen this way of holding a propeller. Just a coarse knurl on the prop hub, and a big hunker nut to squeeze it all together.  :o No prop bolts at all.
Like a geezus nut on a helicopter.
Dusty

Offline rocker59

  • Global Moderator
  • Guzzi Hero
  • *
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 23604
  • "diplomatico di moto"
  • Location: NW Arkansas
Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #69 on: October 29, 2013, 02:31:25 PM »


Looks like one hell of an alternator on the nose of that engine.  And the computer and relays are clear in the photo.   
Michael T.
Aux Arcs
1996 Moto Guzzi Sport 1100
"Do what you can, with what you have, where you are." - Theodore Roosevelt

Offline Dogwalker

  • Guzzi Mentor
  • ****
  • Posts: 834
Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #70 on: October 29, 2013, 02:39:15 PM »
The V75Hi.e originally had Weber injection. The control units were pretty big at the beginning of the '90s.

Online rodekyll

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 21407
  • Not my real name
Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #71 on: October 29, 2013, 03:16:01 PM »
The ecu box reminds me of the early VW T III  injection -- L-jetronic?

Offline Chuck in Indiana

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 28540
Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #72 on: October 29, 2013, 03:17:34 PM »
Quote
Looks like one hell of an alternator on the nose of that engine.

Should have no trouble powering some electric gloves.. ;D
Ya know, I'll just *have* to make up something to bolt it to. I have a junk Mouser prop that can be bored to fit.. ~;
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal

02 Scura RC
87 AeroLario
95 Skorpion tour
 "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
Albert Einstein

Offline Unkept

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2209
    • Unkept Uncaged- Youtube Channel
Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #73 on: October 29, 2013, 03:21:49 PM »
Should have no trouble powering some electric gloves.. ;D
Ya know, I'll just *have* to make up something to bolt it to. I have a junk Mouser prop that can be bored to fit.. ~;

That's EXACTLY what I was thinking! You could make your money back Chuck... selling that alternator to an aspiring 2013 V7 owner who needs to power his full Gerbing suit, and have the ability to provide power for the entire campsite at a Guzzi rally!  ;D
« Last Edit: October 29, 2013, 03:44:53 PM by Unkept »

Offline rocker59

  • Global Moderator
  • Guzzi Hero
  • *
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 23604
  • "diplomatico di moto"
  • Location: NW Arkansas
Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #74 on: October 29, 2013, 03:40:05 PM »
The ecu box reminds me of the early VW T III  injection -- L-jetronic?

Yeah.  Kind of looks like the box for the Bosch efi on my ALFA GTV-6 !!   ;-T
Michael T.
Aux Arcs
1996 Moto Guzzi Sport 1100
"Do what you can, with what you have, where you are." - Theodore Roosevelt

Offline Chuck in Indiana

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 28540
Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #75 on: October 29, 2013, 03:49:58 PM »
That's EXACTLY what I was thinking! You could make your money back Chuck... selling that alternator to an aspiring 2013 V7 owner who needs to power his full Gerbing suit, and have the ability to provide power for the entire campsite at a Guzzi rally!  ;D

Maybe I could start a portable welding service?  ;D :BEER:
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal

02 Scura RC
87 AeroLario
95 Skorpion tour
 "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
Albert Einstein

Moto

  • Guest
Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #76 on: October 29, 2013, 04:12:31 PM »
Ok, once you get the digital data, who you gonna get to make the heads? Cheap, of course.. ;D
I used to do engineering modelmaking for GM back in another lifetime, and making 100 relatively complex parts from scratch is/was hellaciously expensive. I realize that things have changed since the 90s, but I'll bet it is still out of reach for us Guzzi Guys.
Believe me, Joe.. I'm not trying to rain on your parade, and I hope I'm wrong.

First, Chuck you must do this. Your name will go down in history. Immortality awaits. (Though not the kind that Woody Allen wants.)

Regarding x-rays, etc., I don't see the need. If you can make molds of the inside shapes of the combustion chambers and the ports, and measure the diameters of the valves and the length of their travel into the cylinders, that's about all the relevant information needed to make close substitutes. Oh, the locations of the seats for the pushrods on the rockers is also needed. Anyway, it's essentially external features of the head (including the inside surface of the combustion chamber). The details of the rockers, bearings, etc., inside a new head could be based on some other engine. Right?

Moto

Offline lucky phil

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1489
Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #77 on: October 29, 2013, 04:33:38 PM »
Phil, I don't think anything I said even intimated that safety *wasn't* a concern. When I built this airplane 33 years ago (!) a crankshaft driven single ignition was the only thing available for a VW conversion. I eventually used a Dyna S driven from the same location as the distributor on a VW engine. That gives true dual ignition. A crank triggered Dyna S firing 10mm plugs could be retrofited to the Guzzi aero engine for dual ignition, but you'd have to carry two batterys for a true dual system. I would do that. A magneto is extremely reliable, and can be inspected, etc. Electronic ignition is reliable, too... but... it can suddenly fail without symptoms. I have never seen a magneto fail without talking to you...
It's a moot point, anyway. The only reason to put the Guzzi in Mouser would be the novelty of doing it. There's no performance gain over my reliable  ;D VW.
Yep. ;D The midwest is an experimental aviation hotbed for a reason. That said, Mouser glides at 90mph, and an off airport landing would require picking a really good field to keep from pranging her.. ;)
Thanks for the info Chuck, Ive grown up in a world of system redundancy and any other way worries me.
BTW the setup in the last set of photos looks like a "pusher" application to me.
I think I'd prefer the exhausts facing into the airflow or the cooling is going to need some high drag ducting in a fwd facing installation.
Can Guzzi heads be turned around and swapped to the opposite side and the cam changed to suit? Never really thought about it.
Ciao
« Last Edit: October 29, 2013, 04:35:11 PM by lucky phil »
If you're not living on the edge you're taking up to much room.

Offline pauldaytona

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2525
    • Paul's fast Guzzi Page
Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #78 on: October 29, 2013, 04:39:56 PM »
Is the same p8 marelli as on first FI guzzi's like daytona and california 1000. But can be used with carbs too naturally.
Paul

Daytona 1225, Stelvio 1151





Download Guzzidiag here: http://www.von-der-salierburg.de/download/GuzziDiag/

Offline Chuck in Indiana

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 28540
Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #79 on: October 29, 2013, 04:46:50 PM »
Is the same p8 marelli as on first FI guzzi's like daytona and california 1000. But can be used with carbs too naturally.

Thanks, Paul! I was hoping GuzziDiag would talk to it. Great news.
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal

02 Scura RC
87 AeroLario
95 Skorpion tour
 "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
Albert Einstein

oldbike54

  • Guest
Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #80 on: October 29, 2013, 04:50:23 PM »
Thanks, Paul! I was hoping GuzziDiag would talk to it. Great news.
Sooo... does this foreshadow events ?
Dusty

Offline Chuck in Indiana

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 28540
Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #81 on: October 29, 2013, 04:52:20 PM »
Thanks for the info Chuck, Ive grown up in a world of system redundancy and any other way worries me.
BTW the setup in the last set of photos looks like a "pusher" application to me.
I think I'd prefer the exhausts facing into the airflow or the cooling is going to need some high drag ducting in a fwd facing installation.
Can Guzzi heads be turned around and swapped to the opposite side and the cam changed to suit? Never really thought about it.
Ciao

Yes, you are right, of course. I had been looking at the tractor version pictures, and wondered if they were the one with the opposite rotation. When I saw the pictures of the one in Alabama, I thought, "Super Lario".  ;D I'm not planning on flying it.. I have enough airplane projects to keep me busy until I'm 100.. ;D
Yes, apparently these heads can be turned around.
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal

02 Scura RC
87 AeroLario
95 Skorpion tour
 "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
Albert Einstein

Offline twhitaker

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 8342
Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #82 on: October 29, 2013, 05:04:51 PM »
Ippogrifo.  ;-T
'96 California 1100i 160,000 mi
'97 Centauro yellow 25,000 mi
'02 Champagne V11 LeMans 58,000 mi
MGNOC-11168
Dayton, OH

Offline Chuck in Indiana

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 28540
Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #83 on: October 29, 2013, 05:09:24 PM »
Ippogrifo.  ;-T

Super Lario..  ;D we don't need no steenkin monoshock.. Tonti rules!  :BEER:
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal

02 Scura RC
87 AeroLario
95 Skorpion tour
 "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
Albert Einstein

Offline pauldaytona

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2525
    • Paul's fast Guzzi Page
Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #84 on: October 29, 2013, 05:21:13 PM »
Thanks, Paul! I was hoping GuzziDiag would talk to it. Great news.

yes guzzidiag will talk t it, but you can't program it, the p8 has a chip that can be changed. So if you don't like the program, you need to find someone with an eprom reader/ burner to read it, then you can change it in tunerpro and burn the contents to a new chip.

But leaving the injection on it, will give new problems where to fit the parts. I would start with carbs to keep it simple.

For injection the 15m ecu is a better choice because it's small. But that needs an other wheel for the pickup, I suppose it's ready available from never v7/nevada.
And the 15m can be programmed.
Paul

Daytona 1225, Stelvio 1151





Download Guzzidiag here: http://www.von-der-salierburg.de/download/GuzziDiag/

Offline Dogwalker

  • Guzzi Mentor
  • ****
  • Posts: 834
Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #85 on: October 29, 2013, 05:37:27 PM »
Can Guzzi heads be turned around and swapped to the opposite side and the cam changed to suit?
Big block, turned heads.


Turned heads and turbocharged, to be installed on a helicopter.

Offline Chuck in Indiana

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 28540
Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #86 on: October 30, 2013, 06:49:12 AM »
The guy was going to put it on an ultra light aircraft. I think this is where he got stopped.  :o Hopefully, they aren't all needed.. ;D
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal

02 Scura RC
87 AeroLario
95 Skorpion tour
 "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
Albert Einstein

Offline Unkept

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2209
    • Unkept Uncaged- Youtube Channel
Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #87 on: October 30, 2013, 07:32:02 AM »
yes guzzidiag will talk t it, but you can't program it, the p8 has a chip that can be changed. So if you don't like the program, you need to find someone with an eprom reader/ burner to read it, then you can change it in tunerpro and burn the contents to a new chip.

But leaving the injection on it, will give new problems where to fit the parts. I would start with carbs to keep it simple.

For injection the 15m ecu is a better choice because it's small. But that needs an other wheel for the pickup, I suppose it's ready available from never v7/nevada.
And the 15m can be programmed.


Could he still download the map with GuzziDiag, even if he can't write back to it? At least if he could download it, he could then convert it with TunerPro since he could look at the tables... and then make a modified map for a 15m if he were to use that setup from a modern smallblock.

-Joe

Offline IceBlue

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 4420
  • Where words fail, music speaks. H. C. Andersen
    • Moto Guzzi Lario Fan Site
Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #88 on: October 30, 2013, 12:56:50 PM »
Super Lario..  ;D we don't need no steenkin monoshock.. Tonti rules!  :BEER:

Here's a close cousin from my workshop - the V75/4 :)  It would pep up the Lario as well ;)



...and do nicely in a plane, seems like this one is turned - exhaust is reversed :)

« Last Edit: October 30, 2013, 01:05:07 PM by IceBlue »
Copenhagen Denmark - http://www.facebook.com/motoguzzilario

750 Targa - long legged younger sister of the Lario
V65 Lario - Short legged total brat
V65 Lario - Silver Streak
V35C - Smallest Guzzi cruiser
V75C - (project)
V75/4 - (project)

Offline Chuck in Indiana

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 28540
Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #89 on: November 04, 2013, 12:10:18 PM »
Well, after considerable deliberation, I decided *someone* should rescue this Guzzi drone engine, and it might as well be me.  ;D I talked to the owner for a while on the phone, although there was a serious language barrier. He speaks southern Alabamaian.  ;D :BEER: I mean, I've talked to Leafman, but....
At any rate, Dorcia and I put a growler of Flat 12 Bleeding Heart IPA in the cooler (gotta have supplies) and headed to the back woods of Alabama, a 12 hour drive. The first problem was that my GPS wouldn't find his address, nor would Google, Mapquest, etc. He (Chris) said, No problem.. just get to the town of Union Springs, take 29 south, turn left on.. well you get the picture. Once I came to Union creek Baptist Church on the rat  ;D, go down the hill, and he'd be on the left. Cant miss it. You've heard that one before??
Well, once we turned left, there was a Baptist church all right, but it wasn't Union Creek. I searched the GPS for Baptist churches. You won't believe how many there are in a 25 mile radius of Union Springs. No problem, we'll just call him. No cell service.  ;D ;D It's getting dark, and I'm getting frustrated. Decided the only thing to do was continue on down the road. After miles of tree lined winding apparently deserted country (gorgeous, by the way) we came around a corner and there was Indian creek Baptist church. To my ear, Indian Creek sounded like Union creek in Alabamaian.  ;D ;D
At any rate, we managed to converse with sign language,  ;D drag the engine out of his shed, and Wowzaa! This sucker looks nice. He got his son, who could have been a left tackle in the NFL to help load it. Uh.. he just picked it up and put it in the van.  :o  ;-T
It's dark by now, so we headed back to Montgomery, where I'd snagged a 3 star hotel for 56 bux (Guzzi content) via Hotwire.  ;-T plus hotel tax, entertainment tax, procurement tax, tax tax, etc.  ;D Still, the nicest $56 place we've ever stayed.
Opened our growler and partied down. :BEER:
Drove all day yesterday, and arrived safe and sound just in time to watch the Colts win with Luck's 10th 4th quarter comeback. Life is good...
Just unloaded the box..

Bet you haven't seen one of these..

My camera is in transit from Wisconsin. Detailed pictures to follow. Many familiar parts. Some not familiar at all, but it's a *very* well done aircraft conversion. I'm having mixed emotions about it. Seems a shame not to put it in an airplane, but that is a really major proposition. It would make a killer Lario powerplant.
Dorcia said, "We could move the coffee table out, and mount a glass top to the exhaust stacks for a coffee table while you are deciding what to do with it.."  ;D
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal

02 Scura RC
87 AeroLario
95 Skorpion tour
 "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
Albert Einstein


Harper's Moto Guzzi : Go Ride , Break Parts, Call me!
Harper's Moto Guzzi. Where we still answer the phone, use the highest quality parts, and also do Transmission, rear drive, and carb rebuilds fast. Call us at 816.697.3411 and get your problems resolved.
http://www.harpermoto.com
Advertise Here
 

20 Ounce Stainless Steel Double Insulated Tumbler with donation credit
Buy a quality tumbler and support the forum at the same time!
Better than a YETI! BPA and Lead free.
Advertise Here