Author Topic: Aero engine rescue  (Read 338223 times)

Offline rocker59

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #120 on: November 04, 2013, 08:21:01 PM »
Merged with the original thread, for context.

Good job Chuck!   ;-T

Michael T.
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"Do what you can, with what you have, where you are." - Theodore Roosevelt

Offline Arizona Wayne

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #121 on: November 04, 2013, 09:03:12 PM »
I remember seeing a video of a boat propelled by a small block Guzzi motor kind of like a swamp boat(pusher) setup pull in @ Lake Como some time in the past.  ???

Offline IceBlue

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #122 on: November 05, 2013, 12:59:49 AM »
If it goes in a motorcycle.. realistically, it probably will.. it'll be the Lario.  ~; ;D

Are you going to build/buy an additional Lario, or stick it on the one you have? :)
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Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #123 on: November 05, 2013, 06:07:14 AM »
Are you going to build/buy an additional Lario, or stick it on the one you have? :)

Well, if I could find a blown up low mileage Lario.. cheap.. ;D
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal

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I think senility is going to be a fairly smooth transition for me..

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #123 on: November 05, 2013, 06:07:14 AM »

Offline IceBlue

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #124 on: November 05, 2013, 06:44:09 AM »
Well, if I could find a blown up low mileage Lario.. cheap.. ;D

Good idea, then you would have spare Lario engine parts, if not too blownup  ;D (hard to come by these days) and a setup for the Hunter mill  ;-T

Time to start a project thread ;)
« Last Edit: November 05, 2013, 06:45:02 AM by IceBlue »
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750 Targa - long legged younger sister of the Lario
V65 Lario - Short legged total brat
V65 Lario - Silver Streak
V35C - Smallest Guzzi cruiser
V75C - (project)
V75/4 - (project)

Offline rocker59

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #125 on: November 05, 2013, 08:52:01 AM »
Well, if I could find a blown up low mileage Lario.. cheap.. ;D

You could pick up a used, low-mileage V7 Classic!    ~;

It's what the engine deserves!   ~;
Michael T.
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"Do what you can, with what you have, where you are." - Theodore Roosevelt

Offline IceBlue

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #126 on: November 05, 2013, 09:53:50 AM »
Museum in Mandello would be the rightful place, but I have never heard anyone give any info as to its whereabouts...
Copenhagen Denmark - http://www.facebook.com/motoguzzilario

750 Targa - long legged younger sister of the Lario
V65 Lario - Short legged total brat
V65 Lario - Silver Streak
V35C - Smallest Guzzi cruiser
V75C - (project)
V75/4 - (project)

Offline twhitaker

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #127 on: November 05, 2013, 10:56:45 AM »
I wonder what ever became of that Ippogrifo prototype.

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Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #128 on: November 05, 2013, 10:57:43 AM »
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal

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I think senility is going to be a fairly smooth transition for me..

Offline pauldaytona

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #129 on: November 05, 2013, 12:43:38 PM »
It it was in a plane there should exist a lot of documentation to the engine, somewhere...
Paul

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Offline Pancake

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #130 on: November 05, 2013, 04:46:57 PM »
If somebody bought the engine in Alabama, they should disassemble it and get those individual parts scanned... that way they would have a 3D backup of each piece, could make replacement parts if necessary, and maybe they could share that information with other small block owners so they could make their own "hemi" small blocks!  ;-T

That would be an awesome idea.
May all beings be happy

Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #131 on: November 05, 2013, 05:01:29 PM »
It it was in a plane there should exist a lot of documentation to the engine, somewhere...

Normally, when you have something military, and find "the book" you're golden. More information than you really want to know.  ;D I spent an hour or two searching the net with no joy today. I'm in the midst of another project right now, so it's not an emergency, or anything..  ;)
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal

02 Scura RC
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95 Skorpion tour
 
I think senility is going to be a fairly smooth transition for me..

Online LowRyter

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #132 on: November 05, 2013, 05:45:11 PM »
usually no records from military aircraft surplused to public. 

you might get "as of data" i.e., hours on the engine (to determine when next maintenance is due) or essential data for whole aircraft sale to determine what time when critical inspections can be scheduled. 

there is a reason why the records are purged.
John L 
When life gets you down remember it's one down and the rest are up.  (1-N-23456)

Online Unkept

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #133 on: November 05, 2013, 05:54:50 PM »
That would be an awesome idea.

I've found a few things on reproducing things from CAD and whatnot... but I'm a newbie at all of this. :D

http://www.zcorp.com/en/Solutions/Castings--Patterns--Molds/spage.aspx

http://www.laserdesign.com/project_news/401/

Though as mentioned earlier in this thread, outside measurements and measurements of the valves and their guides, etc. can probable provide most of the data needed to 3D model the heads, without the expense of 3D Laser Scanning...

Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #134 on: November 05, 2013, 06:23:00 PM »
usually no records from military aircraft surplused to public. 

you might get "as of data" i.e., hours on the engine (to determine when next maintenance is due) or essential data for whole aircraft sale to determine what time when critical inspections can be scheduled. 

there is a reason why the records are purged.

It's new...<shrug>

I fool with antique airplanes, and the maintenance manuals for them are wonderful. For instance if you have a WW2 L something, there are parts lists, rigging data, etc. until who tied the pup. I haven't found *anything* on the drone powerplant, yet.
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal

02 Scura RC
87 AeroLario
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I think senility is going to be a fairly smooth transition for me..

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #135 on: November 05, 2013, 09:42:57 PM »
It's new...<shrug>

I fool with antique airplanes, and the maintenance manuals for them are wonderful. For instance if you have a WW2 L something, there are parts lists, rigging data, etc. until who tied the pup. I haven't found *anything* on the drone powerplant, yet.

The Tech Orders likely aren't available to the public (unless they are commercial manuals)- although the repair is contracted.  The next step would be OEM, not sure who is considered OEM/design integrator.  Italian engine, Israel design, US support, unk manufacture.  

I know the Army program office was in (Redstone) Huntsville AL and Northrop Grumman (Sierra Vista, AZ &  Fort Huachuca) still has the support contract.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2013, 09:48:38 PM by LowRyter »
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Offline rocker59

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #136 on: November 06, 2013, 10:45:39 AM »
  as mentioned earlier in this thread, outside measurements and measurements of the valves and their guides, etc. can probable provide most of the data needed to 3D model the heads, without the expense of 3D Laser Scanning...

I'd put money on standard Guzzi parts being inside the Ippo Aero engine.  Valves/Guides/crank/bearings/etc.

I'll bet they used as few proprietary parts as possible to build the thing.  Heads/Valve Covers/Pistons.
Michael T.
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"Do what you can, with what you have, where you are." - Theodore Roosevelt

Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #137 on: November 06, 2013, 10:52:16 AM »
I'd put money on standard Guzzi parts being inside the Ippo Aero engine.  Valves/Guides/crank/bearings/etc.

I'll bet they used as few proprietary parts as possible to build the thing.  Heads/Valve Covers/Pistons.

Me, too.
Here are a few detail pix. I'll have to finish my current project before seriously looking at this one.
Familiar looking stuff..

Unfortunately, I don't see any way of using the injection on a bike.

Elegant breather box and exhaust underneath.

More familiar looking stuff..note the simple way of keeping the ignition lead attached.  ;D

There was a lid with a couple of screws in it. Under that was a very nice oil cooler and lines

That'll do it for right now. I'll have to get it out of the box for more details. Before that, I need to finish up this project once and for all.. ;D I hope. Some assembly required..
« Last Edit: November 06, 2013, 11:07:02 AM by Chuck in Indiana »
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal

02 Scura RC
87 AeroLario
95 Skorpion tour
 
I think senility is going to be a fairly smooth transition for me..

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #138 on: November 06, 2013, 10:57:22 AM »
I'd agree with you Rock, except there was probably some change data from design until fielding.  The risk is whether affected parts effect form, fit or function and finding replacements isn't a lengthy trial and error process.  But still, it's just another Guzzi variant.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2013, 10:58:05 AM by LowRyter »
John L 
When life gets you down remember it's one down and the rest are up.  (1-N-23456)

Offline lucky phil

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #139 on: November 06, 2013, 03:59:06 PM »
His uncle works at the military base, and bought 2 of them Mil surplus. (Probably at pennies on the pound)  ;D This guy was planning on putting it on a 2 place very light airplane. His wife thinks differently.. :wife:
He has built 3 ultra lights and flown them for years.. told me of an engine failure (surprise surprise) of a Rotax 2 stroke on one of them where he managed to get it down on a road between the (really tall) trees in that area. A plug wire had fallen off and grounded out the magneto.  ::) He put it back and took off on that same road with a buddy that is a state trooper blocking traffic on a nearby curve.  ;D
Yes, we saw some cotton. I loved what little we saw of Alabama, other than the language difficulty of course,  ;)  it was the first time we'd been off of I 65 before.
What was that I was saying about single ignition systems Chuck:)
Ciao
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Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #140 on: November 06, 2013, 04:23:03 PM »
What was that I was saying about single ignition systems Chuck:)
Ciao


Friends don't let friends fly two strokes.. ;D
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal

02 Scura RC
87 AeroLario
95 Skorpion tour
 
I think senility is going to be a fairly smooth transition for me..

Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Aero engine rescue (more pix)
« Reply #141 on: August 12, 2014, 11:02:24 AM »
Well, while the cnc is cranking out diffuser halves for a powder coater.. (they're not really diffusers, we just call them that to confuse the Chinese)  ;D

It takes a while to bump out these 3D cavities, so... time to start looking a little more seriously at the Aero engine. Mounting it on my ancient home made engine stand.. (I used to build hot rod engines in a past life) and taking the box away.

They apparently built more of these than I expected..



This is obviously a gear reduction for the prop drive. I wonder if they would happen to be the right gears for a normal Guzzi? ;D Probably not..

I'll bet that with a battery it could be made to run.. ;D :BEER: but down that path lies madness..

One of the things that was puzzling me as it sat in the box was two cam sensors..

At least the whole thing is just held on by a nut. I'll bet I can rig up a Dyna S or maybe the CS5 ignition on the end.

Luigi has some new job skills, and he's good at it. Safety wiring..


Genuine Guzzi deep sump spacer..

Complete with oil cooler inlet and outlet. Probably a finger screen behind the cap screw.

Good stuff, this.. ;-T That's all for now. I'll never get this stupid job done if I don't stay at it..
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal

02 Scura RC
87 AeroLario
95 Skorpion tour
 
I think senility is going to be a fairly smooth transition for me..

Offline IceBlue

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #142 on: October 19, 2014, 05:05:48 AM »
Never seen so many cool pic's of a hunter/Ippo mill before, thanks Chuck! ;-T
Copenhagen Denmark - http://www.facebook.com/motoguzzilario

750 Targa - long legged younger sister of the Lario
V65 Lario - Short legged total brat
V65 Lario - Silver Streak
V35C - Smallest Guzzi cruiser
V75C - (project)
V75/4 - (project)

Offline rocker59

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Re: Re: Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #143 on: October 19, 2014, 10:25:21 AM »
Never seen so many cool pic's of a hunter/Ippo mill before, thanks Chuck! ;-T
+1
Michael T.
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"Do what you can, with what you have, where you are." - Theodore Roosevelt

Offline rodekyll

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #144 on: October 20, 2014, 11:22:40 PM »
The two sensors might be for redundant ignition.  In the air that's a good thing.

Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #145 on: October 21, 2014, 05:53:47 AM »
The two sensors might be for redundant ignition.  In the air that's a good thing.

It's all straight mid 90s Guzzi stuff. I'm guessing the crank and cam sensors? Single ignition. Unless I come up with a cheap injected small block as a donor, I'll just put carbs and mechanical ignition on it.
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal

02 Scura RC
87 AeroLario
95 Skorpion tour
 
I think senility is going to be a fairly smooth transition for me..

Offline leafman60

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #146 on: October 21, 2014, 07:57:29 AM »
Chuck, do you have a frame to transplant it into?

Offline kevdog3019

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #147 on: October 21, 2014, 08:19:13 AM »
No.., that's what he's looking fit is a frame. He would like a Lario frame for small Tonti reasons.  ;-T
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Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #148 on: October 21, 2014, 08:35:19 AM »
As much as I hate to.. I'm having a good time with the 8 valve and Iceblue's valves.. when the time comes, I'll use the long block from the Aero engine and the rest of the pieces from the Lario engine and put it into the Lario. I've decided that what I don't need is another motorcycle to maintain, license, insure, etc. Unfortunately, it looks to me with some rudimentary measuring that the Lario "wings" won't fit, and the chin fairing for sure won't fit. That takes away some of the styling cues of the Lario that I really like.
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal

02 Scura RC
87 AeroLario
95 Skorpion tour
 
I think senility is going to be a fairly smooth transition for me..

Offline kevdog3019

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #149 on: October 21, 2014, 08:42:46 AM »
As much as I hate to.. I'm having a good time with the 8 valve and Iceblue's valves.. when the time comes, I'll use the long block from the Aero engine and the rest of the pieces from the Lario engine and put it into the Lario. I've decided that what I don't need is another motorcycle to maintain, license, insure, etc. Unfortunately, it looks to me with some rudimentary measuring that the Lario "wings" won't fit, and the chin fairing for sure won't fit. That takes away some of the styling cues of the Lario that I really like.

Ah... just cafe it Chuck. Better yet, make it a bobber.  :P
'86 V65 "Super" Lario
'85 Honda Nighthawk 700s
'86 V65 Lario

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