Author Topic: Aero engine rescue  (Read 398625 times)

Offline rocker59

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #360 on: December 18, 2014, 12:01:39 PM »
 ;-T

Thanks a million for posting all these updates!
Michael T.
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Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #361 on: December 18, 2014, 12:09:25 PM »
;-T

Thanks a million for posting all these updates!

My pleasure, Mike. Just a little payback for all I've learned here. I haven't found much on the small block anywhere..
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal
 
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 "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
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Offline Unkept

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #362 on: December 18, 2014, 12:16:12 PM »
;-T

Thanks a million for posting all these updates!

 :+1
My pleasure, Mike. Just a little payback for all I've learned here. I haven't found much on the small block anywhere..

... let alone the Aero small block!

This will likely become the mecca for people looking into the Aero small block.

Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #363 on: December 18, 2014, 01:09:36 PM »
Quote
This will likely become the mecca for people looking into the Aero small block.

Both of us?  ;D :BEER:
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal
 
87 AeroLario
95 Skorpion tour
22 Royal Enfield Classic 3 fiddy
 "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #363 on: December 18, 2014, 01:09:36 PM »

Offline Dick

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #364 on: December 18, 2014, 02:18:33 PM »
Can't wait for your ride impression, after it's all dialed in, of course.  ;-T

Offline lucky phil

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #365 on: December 18, 2014, 02:41:49 PM »
So Chuck, instead of all the STP sticky stuff on everything why not just put some oil in the sucker and before you hook up the cam chain and oil pump use a battery drill to drive the pump and prime the whole oil system?
Would probably be a little messy but you could also confirm oil to the heads with the rocker covers off and no dry start. Just a thought.
As for the birds eye.........step away Chuck,step away.
Ciao
« Last Edit: December 18, 2014, 02:43:47 PM by lucky phil »
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Offline Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #366 on: December 18, 2014, 03:39:01 PM »
Or just block off all breather ports and pressurize the crankcase via the dipstick hole to force oil through. Takes 5 psi or less to do the job.
Charlie

Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #367 on: December 18, 2014, 03:43:16 PM »
 
Quote
As for the birds eye.........step away Chuck,step away.
;D ;D
Thought that might get your attention.  :BEER:
« Last Edit: December 18, 2014, 03:44:24 PM by Chuck in Indiana »
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal
 
87 AeroLario
95 Skorpion tour
22 Royal Enfield Classic 3 fiddy
 "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
Albert Einstein

Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #368 on: December 18, 2014, 03:51:30 PM »
Or just block off all breather ports and pressurize the crankcase via the dipstick hole to force oil through. Takes 5 psi or less to do the job.

Hmmmm. Normally, I just pull the plugs and crank it until oil pressure comes up. I'm having a hard time visualizing the oil leaving the sump, going through the pump, oil filter, and filling the galleries. Is that what happens?
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal
 
87 AeroLario
95 Skorpion tour
22 Royal Enfield Classic 3 fiddy
 "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
Albert Einstein

Offline Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #369 on: December 18, 2014, 03:59:11 PM »
Hmmmm. Normally, I just pull the plugs and crank it until oil pressure comes up. I'm having a hard time visualizing the oil leaving the sump, going through the pump, oil filter, and filling the galleries. Is that what happens?

When the engine is slathered in lube during assembly as you've done, I just pull the plugs and crank until there's pressure too. If I've done just a top-end, someone else rebuilt the engine, the bike has sat for a while, etc., I'll pressurize just to be on the safe side. Pressure will force the oil (slowly) up through everything, but usually I'm doing it on non-filtered engines.
Charlie

Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #370 on: December 18, 2014, 04:24:41 PM »
When the engine is slathered in lube during assembly as you've done, I just pull the plugs and crank until there's pressure too. If I've done just a top-end, someone else rebuilt the engine, the bike has sat for a while, etc., I'll pressurize just to be on the safe side. Pressure will force the oil (slowly) up through everything, but usually I'm doing it on non-filtered engines.

Ok, thanks for that.
 
Looking at the shop manuals, the Lario is at full advance at 35 degrees, the 750 Targa sez 38 degrees +/-2. I'll put a paint line at 36, and call it good.
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal
 
87 AeroLario
95 Skorpion tour
22 Royal Enfield Classic 3 fiddy
 "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
Albert Einstein

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #371 on: December 19, 2014, 12:01:50 AM »
Noice werk Chuck!

Pete

Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #372 on: December 19, 2014, 06:23:21 AM »
Noice werk Chuck!

Pete

Thankya sir.. it'll be embarrassing if it don't werk..  ;D
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal
 
87 AeroLario
95 Skorpion tour
22 Royal Enfield Classic 3 fiddy
 "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
Albert Einstein

Offline skippy

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #373 on: December 19, 2014, 04:52:39 PM »
Chuck,
this build is way awesome and i can't wait to see how the whole thing turns out. Just for grins I did a search, which led to many more search, on the Guzzi aero derived engine. What I determined is that you sir, are the proud owner of a really rare bird. (pardon the pun.)
I was hoping to find some sort of cache of these hemispherical small block motors that could be turned into some great motorcycle power plants but what I discovered is that you happen to have something about as plentiful as mint scented, rainbow colored, unicorn poop.
One thing I am curious about though is, what is the compression ratio of that motor? It is obviously designed to operate between sea level and what, 20,000 feet? 30,000 feet, maybe more?
Just curious, I am not sure if you had a manual with specifications to go with that hot-rod motor.

Skippy
23 V100 Mandello
20 V85TT

Offline skippy

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #374 on: December 19, 2014, 06:17:10 PM »
 :pop
23 V100 Mandello
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Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #375 on: December 19, 2014, 06:50:12 PM »
Chuck,
this build is way awesome and i can't wait to see how the whole thing turns out. Just for grins I did a search, which led to many more search, on the Guzzi aero derived engine. What I determined is that you sir, are the proud owner of a really rare bird. (pardon the pun.)
I was hoping to find some sort of cache of these hemispherical small block motors that could be turned into some great motorcycle power plants but what I discovered is that you happen to have something about as plentiful as mint scented, rainbow colored, unicorn poop.
One thing I am curious about though is, what is the compression ratio of that motor? It is obviously designed to operate between sea level and what, 20,000 feet? 30,000 feet, maybe more?
Just curious, I am not sure if you had a manual with specifications to go with that hot-rod motor.

Skippy

Didn't get to play today, but somewhere back in this thread, I think maybe Dogwalker said they supposedly were 9.4 to 1. That would be about what I would expect for running at full throttle for extended periods on 100 LL fuel. It should be fine in a motorcycle on pump gas, and probably could be pumped up some. (Eventually) Manual?? I think the unicorns ran away with them..  ;D
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal
 
87 AeroLario
95 Skorpion tour
22 Royal Enfield Classic 3 fiddy
 "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
Albert Einstein

Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #376 on: December 20, 2014, 11:46:32 AM »
Drew up something that I could make with the aluminum I have.. meh. I’ll go find a bigger piece of scrap. It’d be just my luck that it would tip over and smack that unguarded section of the valve cover.  ;D

Ok, let’s mark the initial timing and full advance marks on this flywheel. <mumbling to self> 8.554” X pi.. divided by 360 X 11.. where’s my slide rule?.. some Trig, and I’ll have the oh, yeah, I have a calculator.. well Duh! Just draw it on Cad.. no thinking. No wonder these kids can’t do math any more..  ;D 

Less than a minute of cad says the chord of 11 degrees is .820”, and full advance of 36 degrees is 2.643”. I’ll let the machines do the math while I go sit under a tree. They’re better at it.. and faster. <shrug> So, scribe a line .820” BTDC, center punch it


and a paint pen to make it show up.

Repeat at 36 degrees BTDC.

Why? Well, “The Book” on the Lario sez that there is 25 degrees of advance in the mechanical advance, so setting the initial timing at 11 should give us 36 total.  Road testing will decide just how much is appropriate.
Now, there’s nothing left to do except put it back together. Set it on the box and bolt up the transmission.

One last look at the head guard template just to make sure it’s big enough..

Roll the rear drive assembly over and fit it up, bolt on the frame rails and drag in the bike..

But small block assembly has been covered in the Lario Rehab thread, no need to rehash that. Time to go in and fix lunch. Grandmother was right when she said “A man’s work is from sun to sun, but a woman’s work is never done.”  ;D I’m getting tired of cooking, cleaning, running errands, etc. while Dorcia lays around and eats bon bons.. <running and ducking>  ;)
Edit for typo
« Last Edit: December 20, 2014, 11:50:47 AM by Chuck in Indiana »
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal
 
87 AeroLario
95 Skorpion tour
22 Royal Enfield Classic 3 fiddy
 "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
Albert Einstein

father guzzi obrian

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #377 on: December 20, 2014, 11:55:21 AM »
Chuck, I think the headguards will be cool looking, but I thing they will be stronger if affixed with bolts or bungee cords instead of tape, just sayin buddy.....

Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #378 on: December 20, 2014, 12:04:57 PM »
Chuck, I think the headguards will be cool looking, but I thing they will be stronger if affixed with bolts or bungee cords instead of tape, just sayin buddy.....

You engineers.. always trying to cause trouble..  ~; :BEER:
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal
 
87 AeroLario
95 Skorpion tour
22 Royal Enfield Classic 3 fiddy
 "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
Albert Einstein

Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #379 on: December 20, 2014, 02:41:04 PM »
Well, that was easy.  ;D

Those heads look the business, don't they?
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal
 
87 AeroLario
95 Skorpion tour
22 Royal Enfield Classic 3 fiddy
 "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
Albert Einstein

oldbike54

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #380 on: December 20, 2014, 02:46:31 PM »
Now we're gettin sum'eres  ;-T Nice work Chuckie .

  Dusty

Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #381 on: December 20, 2014, 03:04:49 PM »
Thankya, thankya.  ;D Still waiting for my brand new shiny carburetors. Can't make the intake manifolds until I get em. Still a few things to hook up and fit up the exhaust. It's different than the normal small block.
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal
 
87 AeroLario
95 Skorpion tour
22 Royal Enfield Classic 3 fiddy
 "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
Albert Einstein

Offline Dogwalker

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #382 on: December 20, 2014, 03:29:48 PM »
Wow! ;D

Offline Unkept

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #383 on: December 20, 2014, 03:37:17 PM »

Offline Xlratr

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #384 on: December 20, 2014, 04:31:01 PM »
I wonder if there's anybody in Mandello reading this thread and enjoying it as much as I am. Ground breaking and fascinating stuff! Thanks so much for showing it, and I can't wait for the first ride report.


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Offline LowRyter

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #385 on: December 20, 2014, 04:46:46 PM »
will the gas tank fit over those macho valve covers? 
John L 
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Offline Steph

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #386 on: December 20, 2014, 04:53:54 PM »
I wonder if there's anybody in Mandello reading this thread and enjoying it as much as I am. Ground breaking and fascinating stuff! Thanks so much for showing it, and I can't wait for the first ride report.


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 :+1

Guzzi history in the making ;-T



Offline zedXmick

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #387 on: December 20, 2014, 05:03:08 PM »
I was looking at this picture and imagining the tachometer sweeping thru the midrange with the bike coming out of a left hand turn,right on the perfect apex....  Thanks for that.... ;D



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Offline charlie b

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #388 on: December 20, 2014, 07:42:37 PM »
EGAD!!!  It looks like it is actually going to go back together!!

Nice tutorial too.  Thanks.

Not being as cheap, and not doing engine work as often, I just buy the assembly lubes from NAPA (high pressure version and 'oil' version).  Then I also run the oil pump with a drill and then pull the plugs and use the starter motor.  I like spinning the motor to get the oil to all the right places, not just through the galleries.
 
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Offline Turin

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #389 on: December 20, 2014, 08:00:20 PM »
This is the coolest thread ever. I find myself checking it 3 times a day. WOW!!! :drool
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