Author Topic: Aero engine rescue  (Read 398567 times)

Offline Triple Jim

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #870 on: March 21, 2015, 11:57:09 AM »
Rinkrat, Chuck said the photo is from a plug chop, not normal running.
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Offline dl.allen

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #871 on: March 21, 2015, 11:58:39 AM »
I would check the torque again on your welded nut/stud after a heat cycle or two to see if it will stay put in relation to the others next to it.

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #872 on: March 21, 2015, 12:22:25 PM »
Hey Jim, Granted it was a chop but the plug already had 115 miles of runtime. Average it out I'll stick with my assesment.
   Got 100LL Chuck?? ~;

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Offline kevdog3019

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #873 on: March 21, 2015, 12:44:49 PM »
QUestion:  If you were to weld a nut onto the end of a long bolt and bottom out the bolt in a hole then torque on the nut, what part are you putting torque on?  I say the bolt, not the nut right?  So, are you REALLY applying 25 ft lb pressure on the nut holding the head?  I think you are assuming that the rod is being torqued and would move?  What if it didn't move?  I guess I can't wrap my head around torquing on something you just welded in place.  Help me out someone.  If the rod had somewhere to go then I can see things as good, if not then you can apply much more and get the same results since nothing CAN move until you strip the housing holding the rod.  I think you're close so it's a non-issue.  

Oh... I think your plug chops look pretty good.  ;-T
« Last Edit: March 21, 2015, 01:05:37 PM by kevdog3019 »
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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #873 on: March 21, 2015, 12:44:49 PM »

Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #874 on: March 21, 2015, 01:17:42 PM »
QUestion:  If you were to weld a nut onto the end of a long bolt and bottom out the bolt in a hole then torque on the nut, what part are you putting torque on?  I say the bolt, not the nut right?  So, are you REALLY applying 25 ft lb pressure on the nut holding the head?  I think you are assuming that the rod is being torqued and would move?  What if it didn't move?  I guess I can't wrap my head around torquing on something you just welded in place.  Help me out someone.  If the rod had somewhere to go then I can see things as good, if not then you can apply much more and get the same results since nothing CAN move until you strip the housing holding the rod.  I think you're close so it's a non-issue.  

Oh... I think your plug chops look pretty good.  ;-T
Kev, I see your point, but when I backed the stud out a turn or so, it didn't feel like it had been bottomed in the case (which isn't the best practice in the world anyway) there was no "break away" torque. I'm pretty sure that the 25 ft. lbs. I'm seeing is correct.
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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #875 on: March 21, 2015, 01:22:24 PM »
You're torquing the unit, not the nut.  Doesn't matter if there is a nut on top, or if you're using a long bolt (which this stud has become).

Torquing the heads is just squeezing them between the case and the nut, or the head of a bolt.


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Offline kevdog3019

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #876 on: March 21, 2015, 02:16:25 PM »
You're torquing the unit, not the nut.  Doesn't matter if there is a nut on top, or if you're using a long bolt (which this stud has become).

Torquing the heads is just squeezing them between the case and the nut, or the head of a bolt.




Yes, assuming there's room to go. Chuck figures there was. Taking two set items to a place neither can go gets you nowhere even if you set the wrench to 60 ft lbs. It will say you're there when you went nowhere.
Very glad to hear it's a done deal and nobody got hurt. Smart choice.
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Offline Triple Jim

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #877 on: March 21, 2015, 02:28:02 PM »
Hey Jim, Granted it was a chop but the plug already had 115 miles of runtime. Average it out I'll stick with my assesment.
   Got 100LL Chuck?? ~;

  Paul :BEER:

OK Paul, I went back and read a bunch, but missed that.  Not really an official plug chop then, and least the kind I'm used to, and yes I agree with you, they look good.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2015, 02:28:17 PM by Triple Jim »
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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #878 on: March 21, 2015, 05:11:50 PM »
Chuck face it, it's a damaged unit. Since it still runs I'll give you a hunnerd bones for it :D
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Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #879 on: March 21, 2015, 05:28:45 PM »
Chuck face it, it's a damaged unit. Since it still runs I'll give you a hunnerd bones for it :D

Are you sure?? After all, it's a Lario, and all... ;D
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Offline mwrenn

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #880 on: March 21, 2015, 05:29:08 PM »
The longest M8 I have is 210mm.  I'll look around some though, gotta be some 225's somewhere...

Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #881 on: March 21, 2015, 05:33:20 PM »
The longest M8 I have is 210mm.  I'll look around some though, gotta be some 225's somewhere...

 ;-T A little longer would be ok, too..
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Offline kevdog3019

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #882 on: March 21, 2015, 05:33:38 PM »
Are you sure?? After all, it's a Lario, and all... ;D

Took a little vid of mine for your listening pleasure over on the other thread.  Funny how that camera catches that distinct Italian percussion section.  ::)

See how your Bubs compare on that bugger.  Mine have reducers.
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Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #883 on: March 21, 2015, 07:20:46 PM »
Chuck.  May I ask:  How do you plan to limit the RPMs?

This has a Dyna S ignition. Dyna makes a rev limiter. I just haven't got a round toit, yet. <shrug> Normally, I'm pretty careful about that kind of stuff, but I've now "over revved" it once. Problem is, I don't know what the red line should be. I've been using the Lario red line, and those are really small valves. I haven't noticed any valve float..  :o but am trying to err on the side of being cautious.. ;D It's hard.
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal
 
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Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #884 on: March 21, 2015, 07:22:49 PM »
Took a little vid of mine for your listening pleasure over on the other thread.  Funny how that camera catches that distinct Italian percussion section.  ::)

See how your Bubs compare on that bugger.  Mine have reducers.

Ok, I'll strap on a camera and take it for a ride. Prepare to swoon.. ;D :BEER:
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal
 
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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #885 on: March 21, 2015, 07:40:49 PM »
Are you sure?? After all, it's a Lario, and all... ;D
Well I could use that engine for a drone project I have in mind........
John
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Offline johnr

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #886 on: March 21, 2015, 08:33:33 PM »
Glad you got the stud sorted Chuck. Though I see the point about it bottoming out I suspect you would have felt that.

My impression of the plug is that it looks fine, but I wouldn't want it to be any lighter which would give rise to suspicion for me. I think, were it me, I would try one size larger main jet, just as an experiment, and see how that looked.

I wonder if Guzzi themselves could supply a red line figure?
« Last Edit: March 21, 2015, 08:34:37 PM by johnr »
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Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #887 on: March 22, 2015, 06:40:44 AM »
Glad you got the stud sorted Chuck. Though I see the point about it bottoming out I suspect you would have felt that.

My impression of the plug is that it looks fine, but I wouldn't want it to be any lighter which would give rise to suspicion for me. I think, were it me, I would try one size larger main jet, just as an experiment, and see how that looked.

I wonder if Guzzi themselves could supply a red line figure?

Yeah, I've torqued literally thousands of fasteners. I *think* I would have felt it bottom out. It's just temporary to find out what was going on, and let me run it until I get a new stud. Any idea how I can contact someone at the factory? A little googling hasn't done me much good.. and I don't blame them.. ;D
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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #888 on: March 22, 2015, 09:34:07 AM »
  About the plug , hmm , maybe just a skoshe lean ... maybe . 

  Dusty

Yeah, that's what I'd say, too.

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Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #889 on: March 22, 2015, 10:08:16 AM »
I had a really bright white led light on it. It's a little more tan than what it shows, but it certainly wouldn't hurt to go a little bigger, I'd think. It has a 130 main, maybe try a 135?
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Offline rboe

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #890 on: March 22, 2015, 01:53:15 PM »
I think trying a 135 will give you a couple good data points about the burn and performance, telling you that 130 may be better - or not.
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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #891 on: March 22, 2015, 02:56:16 PM »
                       
                      Change,Test,Compare,Repeat
           

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Offline johnr

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #892 on: March 22, 2015, 06:26:07 PM »
Might be a bit of a mission getting hold of Guzzi.

You could fly a query here; http://static.piaggio.com/contact_us/form-motoguzzi-gb.htmlhttp:

//www.motoguzzi.com/en/contact

or Guzzi USA, http://www.motoguzzi-us.com/contact-us.html

Since the drone the engine was used in was (presumably) made in the US, how about it's manufacturers.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2015, 06:27:44 PM by johnr »
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Offline jacksonracingcomau

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #893 on: March 22, 2015, 07:51:02 PM »
Chuck
BB studs are def bottomed out from factory, torque is then applied nut to stud, obviously replacing nut and stud will be perfect but the way twin plug mod is done is to replace stud with high tensile caphead (10.9), You use slightly (-5mm) short stud and then torque bolt to case.
If stud proves too dear (Guzzi content) just buy a caphead, cut thread off end if you have too.
Or remove stud again, take off a couple of threads, retorque after marking current positition, bet it moves a bees dick, maybe a big bee !!


Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #894 on: March 22, 2015, 08:14:29 PM »
Chuck
BB studs are def bottomed out from factory, torque is then applied nut to stud, obviously replacing nut and stud will be perfect but the way twin plug mod is done is to replace stud with high tensile caphead (10.9), You use slightly (-5mm) short stud and then torque bolt to case.
If stud proves too dear (Guzzi content) just buy a caphead, cut thread off end if you have too.
Or remove stud again, take off a couple of threads, retorque after marking current positition, bet it moves a bees dick, maybe a big bee !!



Thanks for that, Martin. I've found some 8mm dia. 4130.. cheap.  ;D Also some oil hardening tool steel (01) even cheaper. I'll bet it would be fine. Now I have to find a die, and I'll make a new stud. Or, I could try cutting metric threads with my little Mickey Mouse lathe. That would actually be a fun project.. and FREE. (Guzzi content) All this depends on if Mike can't find a long stud in his pile..
Oh, and by the way, Martin.. since I have your attention..what is your gut feeling about the redline on this engine?
« Last Edit: March 22, 2015, 08:30:53 PM by Chuck in Indiana »
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal
 
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 "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
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Offline kevdog3019

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #895 on: March 22, 2015, 09:37:38 PM »
Now that Chuck got the plug chop guys aroused:

I'm thinking I could go one more size jet up. Not the best pics.
Any thoughts? 


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Offline Triple Jim

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #896 on: March 22, 2015, 09:40:42 PM »
Now that Chuck got the plug chop guys aroused:

I'm thinking I could go one more size jet up. Not the best pics.
Any thoughts? 

Is that from a plug chop, or is that just a plug you've run for a while?  If the latter, how many miles of what kind of running?
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Offline kevdog3019

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #897 on: March 22, 2015, 09:47:08 PM »
Is that from a plug chop, or is that just a plug you've run for a while?  If the latter, how many miles of what kind of running?
Under 100 miles of spirited driving but not a chop cut at WOT. I know it's tough to tell what's doing what exactly. I've been steadily going up and feel I'm closing in.
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Offline jacksonracingcomau

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #898 on: March 22, 2015, 10:05:50 PM »
Thanks for that, Martin. I've found some 8mm dia. 4130.. cheap.  ;D Also some oil hardening tool steel (01) even cheaper. I'll bet it would be fine. Now I have to find a die, and I'll make a new stud. Or, I could try cutting metric threads with my little Mickey Mouse lathe. That would actually be a fun project.. and FREE. (Guzzi content) All this depends on if Mike can't find a long stud in his pile..
Oh, and by the way, Martin.. since I have your attention..what is your gut feeling about the redline on this engine?

I reckon you and I are both old enough to know by "feel"with neither a number nor tacho but off the top of my head with your long manifolds, that thing will be over by 7500, a little over rev safe but no point unless someone will get past you going into a corner !!!
Changing up for torque peaks gets you there faster in most cases, absolute top speed can be got with gearing if you need to try (dear--NGC)

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As a very famous tuner said to me recently, horsepower sells engines, torque wins races. Yours should have loads.

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Offline mwrenn

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Re: Aero engine rescue
« Reply #899 on: March 22, 2015, 10:12:56 PM »
No luck here on the studs Chuck.  Sorry man!!

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