Author Topic: 750S The Build is Done  (Read 67997 times)

canuck750

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Re: 750S Rebuild merged
« Reply #30 on: February 12, 2016, 11:05:24 PM »
I am waiting on engine bearings and some transmission parts so its a good time to get the small parts powder coating done.  Bead blast and wire brush cleaned the parts up.



Then wash everything down with acetone and use the silicone plugs to protect the threads



Then hang all the parts off a steel bar balanced on a step ladder, I use jumper wires to make sure the current is strong to each part



I regulate the air at 5 psi, press the trigger to charge the parts and the powder is attracted to the part, bump a part by mistake and the powder will just fall off, carefully transfer the parts with plyers to the pre-heated oven and let bake at 375F for 20 minutes



In 5 minutes the powder gels over then hardens in another 15 minutes of baking



After the parts cool remove the plugs and cut the hanger wires



The triples clamps and head light brackets are coated with wrinkle black powder



I use an Eastwood Automotive powder gun and get my powder from Eastwood as well. Powder coating small parts is very simple and cheap to do.  The frame, swing arm and frame lowers go to the pros who have equipment big enough to handle the large stuff. For small items the DIY kit saves a lot of money and you don't need to worry about small parts going missing. Alarge toaster oven will do the job just as good as an oven of you don't have the room.

Clean up is a breeze, just sweep up and then blow out the rest of the dust from the shop, no smells, no off spray.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2016, 09:15:46 AM by canuck750 »

Offline Muzz

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Re: 750S Rebuild merged
« Reply #31 on: February 13, 2016, 12:52:57 AM »
 :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:

Lovely! And so easy too! :shocked: :undecided:
Muzz. Cristchurch, New Zealand
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Ya wake up in the morning and it's there

canuck750

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Re: 750S Rebuild merged
« Reply #32 on: February 14, 2016, 08:42:23 PM »
Today I decided to sort through my parts boxes before I do any more work or buy any more parts, this is about half the boxes, same amount in the garage attic, maybe my wife is right about this Guzzi thing being an obsession :thewife:



I found a new pair of FAC dampers, pair of crash bars, front fender, and a few other things I forgot I even had.

So after sorting the boxes I found at least eight new foot peg rubbers, so I powder coated the foot rests and assembled them, the 750 S has back foot rest brackets.





I was lucky to find a km/hr correct V7 Sport speedo on Ebay Germany (fat indicator dial) to go on the 750 S (it came from Germany). I powder coated the bezel and base and applied a new decal.



The Tach is from a 850T with an Eldorado face with the text "electronic' painted over and the red line 'raised' up to the V7 Sport limit. The skinny indicator dial is the give away that it is not from a V7 Sport, a correct one will show up one day.



A few more little jobs done.

canuck750

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Re: 750S Rebuild merged
« Reply #33 on: February 15, 2016, 06:53:13 PM »
I got some more quiet time in, the storm starts tomorrow, I have landed a couple large projects that will keep the office busy for a couple years so bike stuff will go to the back of the line for awhile.

So until the crazy deadlines begin some more small jobs got finished.

The distributor was missing fasteners, clips an was very dirty



And the rotor and stator are quite corroded and full of carbon



Everything went under the soda blaster

Insulation replaced on the stator and new brushes







Distributor cleans up real nice with soda, this tiny washer goes here



Advance weights and plate cleaned and lubricated



and new advance mechanism springs



New points and condensers



Soda also cleans the carbon off the rotor



The starter was stripped and powder coated, zinc plates small bits





I use finishing nails to hold the brush springs back while the armature is slid back into position





Replace the end cap, shims and shaft clip



Bendix slider is a little tricky to get back in to place



And its done, I will fit a new solenoid,



Tackling the rebuild one assembly at a time keeps the momentum going and there is that little satisfaction as each component is refreshed.




Wildgoose Chase Moto Guzzi

Re: 750S Rebuild merged
« Reply #33 on: February 15, 2016, 06:53:13 PM »

canuck750

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Re: 750S Rebuild merged
« Reply #34 on: February 16, 2016, 10:23:26 PM »
I got lucky with Ebay recently and found a pair of original Koni V7 Sport shocks, they were advertised as being for an Eldorado and looked rough.





They don't like like much at first but the remains of the Koni decal are evident. These are getting to be quite rare and I was glad to find these have good shafts under all the dirt.



Removing the springs is pretty straight forward,





The worn out rubber clad bushings pop out with a couple sockets in a vice



The top eyelet comes of by holding it in a vice and with a 19mm wrench cracking the lock nut on the shaft loose, then spin off the eyelet. A 19mm socket in an air impact wrench will spin the lock nut off the shelf. The slide the rubber bumper and thin washer off the shaft.

Now the hard part, the cap on top of the body is threaded into the lower main body and is often seized. A two pin hook spanner is the only way to get this cap off, the pins must be tight fitting in the cap. I use a drill bit to clean all of the git out of the holes in the cap. Tap the hook spanner pins into the cap and with a long breaker bar crack the caps loose.





Once the cap is off the shaft can be removed with all the internals, inside of cap with the steel concave washer covering he rubber seal



Internal return spring



Shaft with bushings



and the bottom end of the shaft assembly



Inner steel tube the shaft slides within



And the bottom bushing



Bottom bushing has several steel shims that are spring and through which the fluid passes under damping



It all goes into the ultrasonic cleaner, I will disassemble all the valve shims. make sure everything is clean then rebuild the shocks.  Chrome parts will get replated, bodies powder coated, Cycle Garden sells repro decals and I may be able to track down some new springs to fit.



These Koni's were state of the art back in the early 70's and the V7 Sport / 750S was built to a pretty high specification. There are much better shocks available today but I prefer to see the the original shocks on the bike. I have a rebuilt set on my V7 Sport and the ride is not too shabby.





Offline mrrick

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Re: 750S Rebuild merged
« Reply #35 on: February 17, 2016, 02:43:18 AM »
So all you need to do is clean and re-assemble?  I assumed there wd be some seals or bushings or whatever, that wd require replacement, no?
And if so, where do you find such parts?  I have a pair of these myself, and planned to send them to Robert in Fairfield, CA (rhaagusa on eBay) who says the old Koni's have a plastic washer that turns to mush over the years.
Here is one of his current listings, where he discusses the issue:
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/KONI-13-rebuilt-shocks-Triumph-BSA-Rickman-Norton-CZ-Maico-Bultaco-OSSA-Zundapp-/141901671718?hash=item2109ffad26:g:FCgAAOSwuYVWpYkw

canuck750

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Re: 750S Rebuild merged
« Reply #36 on: February 17, 2016, 09:01:05 AM »
I sent a pair of Koni shocks to Robert to rebuild. The seals were shot and he replaced them and did a great job. I don't know anything about the plastic washer, I was going to contact Robert to find out how much fluid is required. The seals in  these Koni's look good, there was no sign of leaking and the fluid was pretty clean inside, the shaft moved freely. Other ones I had had were all gummed up.

Online Dukedesmo

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Re: 750S Rebuild merged
« Reply #37 on: February 17, 2016, 12:59:56 PM »
I wish I knew how to identify the cam, I wonder if it is a B10 or not?


Firstly nice work.    :thumb:


Does the cam have any markings on it?

I had a similar query and put up a pic of the 'K' stamped on the end of mine to be told (by a knowledgeable member) that it was a B10.

 

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canuck750

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Re: 750S Rebuild merged
« Reply #38 on: February 17, 2016, 04:04:37 PM »
Firstly nice work.    :thumb:


Does the cam have any markings on it?

I had a similar query and put up a pic of the 'K' stamped on the end of mine to be told (by a knowledgeable member) that it was a B10.




I can't see any marks on the cam, guessing it is stock. I want to fit a B10 cam in this bike and may just send the cam to Colt Cams. I think Colt made up the B10 cams that MG Cycle were selling.

Offline Don G

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Re: 750S Rebuild merged
« Reply #39 on: February 17, 2016, 04:32:35 PM »
Well a while back I wanted a B10 cam, Colt said that I would have to deal with MG Cycle as they were the distributor, so I contact MG and was told that they had no cores to send Colt to be ground. I was not going to send a core to MG and have them send it to BC and then back to the States and finally to me. Ended up buying a MegaCycle X10.  DonG

canuck750

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Re: 750S Rebuild merged
« Reply #40 on: February 17, 2016, 06:39:41 PM »
Well a while back I wanted a B10 cam, Colt said that I would have to deal with MG Cycle as they were the distributor, so I contact MG and was told that they had no cores to send Colt to be ground. I was not going to send a core to MG and have them send it to BC and then back to the States and finally to me. Ended up buying a MegaCycle X10.  DonG

Hi Don,
Where did you buy your Mega Cycle cam from?

Online Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: 750S Rebuild merged
« Reply #41 on: February 17, 2016, 06:42:03 PM »
Delta Camshaft in Tacoma, WA can grind a Guzzi cam to B10 specs.
Charlie
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canuck750

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Re: 750S Rebuild merged
« Reply #42 on: February 17, 2016, 07:00:05 PM »
Delta Camshaft in Tacoma, WA can grind a Guzzi cam to B10 specs.

Thanks Charlie

I will look them up tomorrow.

Jim

canuck750

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Re: 750S Rebuild merged
« Reply #43 on: February 17, 2016, 09:19:55 PM »
So all you need to do is clean and re-assemble?  I assumed there wd be some seals or bushings or whatever, that wd require replacement, no?
And if so, where do you find such parts?  I have a pair of these myself, and planned to send them to Robert in Fairfield, CA (rhaagusa on eBay) who says the old Koni's have a plastic washer that turns to mush over the years.
Here is one of his current listings, where he discusses the issue:
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/KONI-13-rebuilt-shocks-Triumph-BSA-Rickman-Norton-CZ-Maico-Bultaco-OSSA-Zundapp-/141901671718?hash=item2109ffad26:g:FCgAAOSwuYVWpYkw


I think the seal that commonly degrades is this one, on other Koni's I have opened up these were in rough shape.



One is good and one should be replaced. I need to check with a local seal specialist and see if they have these in stock, they are flat faced like the seals in a Brembo caliper.

There are valves that have sprung steel discs that under pressure allow fluid to pass. There are tiny holes in the assemblies that need to be cleaned with compressed air and I used an ultrasonic cleaner as well.




Offline dan_s

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Re: 750S Rebuild merged
« Reply #44 on: February 17, 2016, 11:27:30 PM »
The breather boxes are rust traps. Try to look inside to see if there is loose rust flakes before operating.

Offline Don G

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Re: 750S Rebuild merged
« Reply #45 on: February 18, 2016, 08:34:18 AM »
Canuk: I got a couple from Ed Milich @ GUZZIPOWERDOTCOM $450 ish if I remember correctly. The X10 is a little more radical, had to cut out the valve reliefs a bit. The X9 is a little bit more sedate, I have an X9 on its way to a cam grinder at the moment, will see if that profile can be transfered to a factory cam, will let you know how that turns out.  DonG

canuck750

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Re: 750S Rebuild merged
« Reply #46 on: February 18, 2016, 08:42:57 PM »
Canuk: I got a couple from Ed Milich @ GUZZIPOWERDOTCOM $450 ish if I remember correctly. The X10 is a little more radical, had to cut out the valve reliefs a bit. The X9 is a little bit more sedate, I have an X9 on its way to a cam grinder at the moment, will see if that profile can be transfered to a factory cam, will let you know how that turns out.  DonG

Thanks Don,  I may go that route.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2016, 08:45:11 PM by canuck750 »

canuck750

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Re: 750S Rebuild merged
« Reply #47 on: February 18, 2016, 08:44:41 PM »
I took the Koni shocks to a Seal distributor today, the flat O ring seal is a "TS7 215".

canuck750

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Re: 750S Rebuild merged
« Reply #48 on: February 18, 2016, 08:46:36 PM »
The breather boxes are rust traps. Try to look inside to see if there is loose rust flakes before operating.

Hi Dan

I soaked the breather box in Evaporust for a couple weeks, clean as a whistle.

Cheers

Jim

canuck750

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Re: 750S Rebuild merged
« Reply #49 on: February 19, 2016, 10:31:30 PM »
I picked up a box of shiny cad plating today, $50 for a box, cheap and quick service



Fitting FAC dampers, they need a little modification though they would fit right in to the tubes the top is a little tall and the air caps need to be removed, the female threads opened up to 8mm and a recess cut in

The pile of parts that become forks













The special bolts retain the instrument cluster



Replated damper rods and spring caps





Compress the spring and fit the snap ring



Fit new fork seals



Sealant and a brass washer on the drain plug



50cc of fork oil



sealant on the bottom fork bolt



new dust caps and they forks are back together



Packed new bearings with grease and drift the lower bearing over the stem



Plastic pipe spacer keeps the bearings apart for now



Back together ...... but the steering damper is too short which means the stem is too long. This lower triple and stem is off a later 180mm spaced front end , Le Mans MK I  ?? I bought  this lower triple complete with a steering stem intact a couple years ago, it was advertised as off a V7 Sport.  I hadn't noticed the lower triple has no lugs for the steering damper plate so I will need to straighten the original bent stem and press it back into the original lower triple.






canuck750

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Re: 750S Rebuild merged
« Reply #50 on: February 20, 2016, 05:46:30 PM »
Hmmm, a mystery indeed

The original bent and cracked stem on the right and the lower triple as it came with intact stem advertised as Moto Guzzi V7 Sport.



Cast triple is the same as other V7 Sport / 750S / S3 triples I have with the exception of the two cast lugs on the underside to engage the steering damper plate.

Mystery stem on the top, 750S stem on the bottom. The original is waisted where the bearing rests and the balance of the shaft is a wee bit narrower down to the waisted base where the lower bearing rests.

The mystery stem is not waisted and the standard Guzzi steering bearings is loose without the wasited section. 

Seems very odd.

the narrow fork spacing is shared with the early V7 Sport / 750S / S3 and LeMans MK I and then again on the Le Mans MK III.

assuming this mystery stem is in the original lower triple (no lugs for damper) could this item be off a Le Mans MK III? Anyone know if the MK III has a longer frame neck and why any idea why Guzzi would have eliminated the wasited section on the steering stem and allow the bearing to rock?



I think my choices are to have a machine shop make up a new stem to match the buggered one I have or find a 26mm X 1.00 die and cut the threads down lower on the mystery stem and shorten the overall length to match and live with the rocking bearing.

Anyone have any knowledge on Guzzi stem lengths and what would you advise regarding modifying the mystery stem?

Online Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: 750S Rebuild merged
« Reply #51 on: February 20, 2016, 06:29:51 PM »
If either bearing doesn't fit tightly on the stem, the forks will wiggle around. Not good for handling...
Charlie
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canuck750

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Re: 750S Rebuild merged
« Reply #52 on: February 21, 2016, 09:37:09 AM »
If either bearing doesn't fit tightly on the stem, the forks will wiggle around. Not good for handling...

My thoughts as well.

As far as I can tell the V7 Sport and 850T frames are the same and I assume the steering neck is identical.

Does anyone have a stem off an 850T or T3 to confirm if either of these have the upper wasited section for the top bearing and the overall length of the 850T / T3 steering stem from underside of triple to top of threaded?

I am hoping I can find a good used 850T / T3 stem and swap it out.

Thanks

Jim

Offline guzzista

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Re: 750S Rebuild merged
« Reply #53 on: February 21, 2016, 11:47:13 AM »
When I found the V7 Sport triple clamps they did not have a steering stem so I uses a T/T3 stem and there was no slop where the bearing inner races fit. My original T stem had boogered threads so I could not use it . Will look for it and check  /measure it.
1975 750S Tribute bike, 1994 Cali 1100, 2007 Ducati GT1000, 1983 SP1000 1967 Vespa SS180

Offline guzzista

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Re: 750S Rebuild merged
« Reply #54 on: February 21, 2016, 03:42:05 PM »
Confirmed. My T Steering stem has a slightly  thicker section ( waisted?) for the bearing to make a snug fit on. I am thinking any short neck Tonti big twin  stem should work . Good luck and thanks for sharing your builds on WG
1975 750S Tribute bike, 1994 Cali 1100, 2007 Ducati GT1000, 1983 SP1000 1967 Vespa SS180

canuck750

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Re: 750S Rebuild merged
« Reply #55 on: February 21, 2016, 03:58:09 PM »
Confirmed. My T Steering stem has a slightly  thicker section ( waisted?) for the bearing to make a snug fit on. I am thinking any short neck Tonti big twin  stem should work . Good luck and thanks for sharing your builds on WG

THANKS!  That is great news, I shouldn't have any trouble finding a Tonti frame stem.

Jim

canuck750

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Re: 750S Rebuild merged
« Reply #56 on: February 27, 2016, 09:18:26 PM »
I figured out where the mystery lower triple came from - LM III

The LM III on the top, V7 SPort on the bottom, same fork tube spacing, offset, diameter etc.... but the LM III piece is heavier around the fork tubes



And the LM III has no lugs on the underside





In a pinch the LM III triple can work with the V7 Sport front end

Back to the shocks, I found out they take 70cc of 3 weight oil, I found Amsoil 5 weight which the race shop I deal with tells me it is more like 3 weight so I used it in the Koni's





I found new bushings at HMB in Germany



I found new rubber bumpers at an automotive supply store.



New Koni shocks are available on Ebay, good price, same as the V7 Sport but  a little newer with the updated sticker, and the spring fittings are the more modern type, same length and body as the originals, no springs though. I bought  a pair and then found these original vintage ones.



Waiting for a set of reproduction decals to come in from Cycle Garden and the spring fittings to get re-plated.

« Last Edit: June 04, 2016, 09:19:20 AM by canuck750 »

Offline smdl

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Re: 750S Rebuild merged
« Reply #57 on: February 28, 2016, 06:57:51 AM »
Beautiful work, Jim!

Shaun
'74 Eldorado Police
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canuck750

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Re: 750S Rebuild merged
« Reply #58 on: March 05, 2016, 09:38:22 PM »
Transmissions, not much to them, just three shafts, some gears, bearings, forks to slide up and down, gears move into play, putting it back together should be a sinch, but it never is

Easy stuff, reinstall the big bearing retainers





The shift drum rod was all corroded, this transmission sat in a swamp! HMB provided a new one



Pete Ropers excellent tutorial was consulted to shim the drum





Easy enough, now I have torn apart four of these 5 speed buggers but never bothered to record how and in what order to put the shafts back in

New bearing pack here, and don't forget the thick shim as well



Warm up the bearing so the main shaft can drop in



Then the two gear clusters go back in as a unit, followed by two selector forks and then the drum and shaft





This is a bugger, you need to pull the lower selector fork up to get it to engage in the drum, the drum needs to be in 1st gear position so that the selector mechanism can drop over the recess in the drum as the case cover is installed as a unit





once the two lower selectors are engaged with the drum the top selector fork can drop in and then fit the shaft through all three forks and that part is done, It helps to rotate the case around to keep the selector fork pins heal in position by gravity





Case cover back on, takes some shaking and massaging but don't force it

Push rod bits go back on







New splined hub, lock washer and nut



Other end, the speedo retaining ball bearing, drive gear, washer and the nut



Hold the hub and torque the output nut





Done, engines are easy, transmissions can test ones patience










Offline smdl

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Re: 750S Rebuild merged
« Reply #59 on: March 05, 2016, 09:55:35 PM »

I can't see any marks on the cam, guessing it is stock. I want to fit a B10 cam in this bike and may just send the cam to Colt Cams. I think Colt made up the B10 cams that MG Cycle were selling.

Hi, Jim.

Yes, I can confirm that Colt Cams does the re-grind for B10 cams that MG sells.  I checked with Rick and Gordon, and they didn't have any issue with my working directly with Colt Cams as they are in Canada and so am I.  It really didn't make sense to send my core to MG in the US so they could send it to Colt in Canada for a re-grind, so Colt could ship back to the US, so MG could send back to me in Canada.  :grin:  Colt got it done and back to me quite quickly.

Cheers,
Shaun

PS:   I think that MG Cycle has the exclusive distributorship for Colt in the US.
'74 Eldorado Police
'74 Eldorado Civilian
'75 850-T
'12 Stelvio NTX
'20 V85 TT

'71 Honda CB175 Super Sport
'10 Kawasaki Ninja 250

 


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