Author Topic: New G5 Project  (Read 21585 times)

Offline Scud

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Re: New G5 Project
« Reply #30 on: February 02, 2017, 06:37:07 PM »
I don't know this specific task, but I've removed a few different bearings recently. Fabricating a puller seems like a good idea.  Appropriately applied hot and cold are also a big help.

I use a simple torch head on a hose hooked to a 5 gallon can of propane to heat and expand the part the bearing needs to come out of. If it's stubborn, you can also use some aerosol quick-freeze spray on the bearing to contract it.
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Online Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: New G5 Project
« Reply #31 on: February 02, 2017, 07:15:19 PM »
I don't know this specific task, but I've removed a few different bearings recently. Fabricating a puller seems like a good idea.  Appropriately applied hot and cold are also a big help.

I use a simple torch head on a hose hooked to a 5 gallon can of propane to heat and expand the part the bearing needs to come out of. If it's stubborn, you can also use some aerosol quick-freeze spray on the bearing to contract it.

This is the bearing:


It goes into this hole:
Charlie
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Re: New G5 Project
« Reply #32 on: February 02, 2017, 09:14:34 PM »
Charlie left out a detail:  That hole has a lot of crankshaft in the middle of your way as you install the bearing.  No room for error.  :evil:

Online Tom H

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Re: New G5 Project
« Reply #33 on: February 02, 2017, 09:29:52 PM »
Didn't mean to scare you. Just a heads up.

Charlie has removed/installed way more rear main bearing than one can count I would guess. So follow his advise!!!!!!

The bearing does require coming straight out. No tilting to one side, it's a tight clearance fit in the case.

When I installed my bearing, I put it in the freezer for about an hour. As I slid it in, I could feel the clearance close.

It should be easy, factories do this type of stuff everyday.

Mine was just cursed I think :sad:

Tom
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Re: New G5 Project
« Reply #33 on: February 02, 2017, 09:29:52 PM »

Offline wirespokes

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Re: New G5 Project
« Reply #34 on: February 05, 2017, 07:01:47 PM »
Powder coating --- I'm not a fan of powder coating a frame. I've got a bike from the Bay Area that had been powder coated, probably in the 80s, with areas of rust build-up where the coating was compromised. Because the coating is so rugged, the moisture tunneled deeper and deeper making quite a mess. The powder coating didn't flake off, just bubbled up, so the rust got worse and worse without being very noticeable.

I've heard too many stories of critical areas getting sand blasted or coated that shouldn't have been. I even heard of a Guzzi frame - one of those with the breather utilizing the frame as part of the system - that got sandblasted with sand going into that critical area. It lunched two engine rebuilds before the realization what was going on.

Frankly, I'd much rather have a painted frame - Urethane is a good solution. I've heard it holds up very well. And if it does get scraped up, isn't impossible to touch up. I also like POR 15, but have heard that it fades in sunlight. Has anyone experienced this? 

Another thing to consider is that sand blasting may not be entirely necessary. All the original paint doesn't need to be removed - most of which is perfectly good. I'd be more tempted to hand sand it, and just scuff up the areas with remaining decent paint.

I've got bikes from the 70s still wearing decent factory paint. So it's not true that regular old paint isn't durable. I wonder what it would cost to have a paint shop do the job?


Offline smdl

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Re: New G5 Project
« Reply #35 on: February 05, 2017, 07:07:31 PM »
Powder coating --- I'm not a fan of powder coating a frame. I've got a bike from the Bay Area that had been powder coated, probably in the 80s, with areas of rust build-up where the coating was compromised. Because the coating is so rugged, the moisture tunneled deeper and deeper making quite a mess. The powder coating didn't flake off, just bubbled up, so the rust got worse and worse without being very noticeable.

I've heard too many stories of critical areas getting sand blasted or coated that shouldn't have been. I even heard of a Guzzi frame - one of those with the breather utilizing the frame as part of the system - that got sandblasted with sand going into that critical area. It lunched two engine rebuilds before the realization what was going on.

Frankly, I'd much rather have a painted frame - Urethane is a good solution. I've heard it holds up very well. And if it does get scraped up, isn't impossible to touch up. I also like POR 15, but have heard that it fades in sunlight. Has anyone experienced this? 

Another thing to consider is that sand blasting may not be entirely necessary. All the original paint doesn't need to be removed - most of which is perfectly good. I'd be more tempted to hand sand it, and just scuff up the areas with remaining decent paint.

I've got bikes from the 70s still wearing decent factory paint. So it's not true that regular old paint isn't durable. I wonder what it would cost to have a paint shop do the job?

I've also "heard" some of the things that you describe, but my experience with powder coating has been very positive.  Honestly, I think it really depends upon who does the work, and I am fortunate to have found someone why is more worried about the outcome of my jobs than I am!

POR-15 base coat does indeed go chalky in sunlight, which is why you will want to use their top coat on anything that will experience UV.  if you use that, you won't have a problem.

Lots of options, though, which is good.

Cheers,
Shaun
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Re: New G5 Project
« Reply #36 on: February 06, 2017, 08:17:04 AM »
My powder coat guy put a corrosion prevention base before the final black coat. I think he said zinc or something. It was silver and I could see it after removing the masking tape and in areas that I sanded for ground points. I noticed though from I could tell that it was only done on the frame. The smaller parts didn't have the treatment.
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Offline Antiquar

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Re: New G5 Project
« Reply #37 on: February 06, 2017, 12:22:37 PM »
Another thing to consider is that sand blasting may not be entirely necessary. All the original paint doesn't need to be removed - most of which is perfectly good. I'd be more tempted to hand sand it, and just scuff up the areas with remaining decent paint.

I actually tried this approach as a test on a few smaller parts last week, with nice results (though unknown on long term durability). Right now I am inclined to paint the frame, less due to the cost of powdercoating (which is more reasonable than I thought), but more to just do it on my own, which is in the spirit of this project for me. :)

I am expecting a few parcels this week, and hope to start the gearbox and engine work soon.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2017, 08:12:22 PM by Antiquar »

Offline Antiquar

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Re: New G5 Project
« Reply #38 on: February 06, 2017, 08:09:03 PM »
I wanted to make some progress tonight so I pulled the old swingarm pivot bearings and races. The blind bearing slide hammer puller made easy work of the races, though I admit it tired out my arms.  :laugh:


Though during initial teardown I said that the u-joint carrier bearing felt smooth, second examination revealed slight notchiness; so it, too, will be replaced. I will probably pull that bearing tomorrow evening, or try to.

Offline smdl

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Re: New G5 Project
« Reply #39 on: February 06, 2017, 09:36:36 PM »
I wanted to make some progress tonight so I pulled the old swingarm pivot bearings and races. The blind bearing slide hammer puller made easy work of the races, though I admit it tired out my arms.  :laugh:


Though during initial teardown I said that the u-joint carrier bearing felt smooth, second examination revealed slight notchiness; so it, too, will be replaced. I will probably pull that bearing tomorrow evening, or try to.

I'd strongly recommend replacing all the bearings while in there, and consider rebuilding the u-joint, as well.  I decided not to do the u-joint on my Eldo, and was back in there two thousand miles later rebuilding it. 

Cheers,
Shaun


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Re: New G5 Project
« Reply #40 on: February 07, 2017, 08:39:40 AM »
I'd strongly recommend replacing all the bearings while in there, and consider rebuilding the u-joint, as well.  I decided not to do the u-joint on my Eldo, and was back in there two thousand miles later rebuilding it. 

Cheers,
Shaun

I didn't know you could rebuild u-joints... how do you do that, and where do you get the parts? Do you replace the pins?

In regards to pulling out the u-joint carrier bearing... eat your Wheaties. The swingarm bearings were "easy" by comparison in my case.
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Online Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: New G5 Project
« Reply #41 on: February 07, 2017, 09:29:12 AM »
I didn't know you could rebuild u-joints... how do you do that, and where do you get the parts? Do you replace the pins?

In regards to pulling out the u-joint carrier bearing... eat your Wheaties. The swingarm bearings were "easy" by comparison in my case.

John Chicoine rebuilds them for $150 IIRC. Here's a source for just the crosses (not sure if they're the correct sizes) in case anyone wants to do it themselves:
http://www.theujointstore.com/moto-guzzi.html

The carrier bearing can be a PITA, but lately I've been using a slightly different method and it's not so bad now. I use the large collet from my blind bearing puller set and insert it into the bearing so there's something to push against. Then I put a piece of steel rod down through the swingarm from the drive end and use the hydraulic press to push the bearing out. Easy installation too using the press.
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Offline Antiquar

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Re: New G5 Project
« Reply #42 on: February 07, 2017, 06:14:57 PM »


Not too bad coming out. More worried about how I'm going to get the new one in.   :laugh:

I also installed the pivot races, which went in without drama and sit level with about 9mm between the top of the race and the edge of the hole.

Offline Antiquar

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Re: New G5 Project
« Reply #43 on: February 09, 2017, 11:28:48 AM »
Pretty bad in here, reeks of gear oil. Clutch plates totally ruined.


The flywheel, ring gear, and pressure plate took a bath.


Also replaced the rear main flange gasket & rear main seal, JB-welded the cam plug, replaced breather gaskets and crush washers, and installed a new clutch.  Not all pictured as I got distracted by the work.


Offline Scud

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Re: New G5 Project
« Reply #44 on: February 09, 2017, 02:59:44 PM »
Good work. And what is that dirt-bike in the background? Is it an ATK 600?
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Offline Rick4003

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Re: New G5 Project
« Reply #45 on: February 09, 2017, 06:06:01 PM »

Looks like a good thread, but am I the only one who can't see the OP's pictures? I can see the pictures posted by the other members.

Would love to follow along :smiley:

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Re: New G5 Project
« Reply #46 on: February 10, 2017, 07:38:54 AM »
Checking in here on the West Coast project, all is looking good. Keep up the good work. Have a great weekend!
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Re: New G5 Project
« Reply #47 on: February 10, 2017, 10:49:54 AM »
Looks like a good thread, but am I the only one who can't see the OP's pictures? I can see the pictures posted by the other members.

Would love to follow along :smiley:

-Ulrik

The photos are pretty graphic...maybe you have Parental Controls enabled?   :laugh:

Offline kidsmoke

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Re: New G5 Project
« Reply #48 on: February 10, 2017, 10:54:52 AM »
Checking in here on the West Coast project, all is looking good. Keep up the good work. Have a great weekend!

I'm watching as well. Groover, hope you don't mind but your G5 is in one of my desktop gallery shots (folder called "wheels" - drool worthy machines that I lust after) that cycles during the day while I'm at work. Love that bike.
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Re: New G5 Project
« Reply #49 on: February 10, 2017, 11:03:54 AM »
I'm watching as well. Groover, hope you don't mind but your G5 is in one of my desktop gallery shots (folder called "wheels" - drool worthy machines that I lust after) that cycles during the day while I'm at work. Love that bike.

That's awesome, and thanks! I don't mind at all of course!
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Offline Antiquar

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Re: New G5 Project
« Reply #50 on: February 10, 2017, 11:52:20 AM »
Good work. And what is that dirt-bike in the background? Is it an ATK 600?

It is! Well, a frame at least, not the engine. I'm doing this project at a local DIY motorcycle garage, so there's a lot of half finished bikes on lifts. This G5 is the only Guzzi though.

Looks like a good thread, but am I the only one who can't see the OP's pictures? I can see the pictures posted by the other members.

Would love to follow along :smiley:

-Ulrik
That's a bummer. They're hosted on imgur.com, maybe I'll try a different hosting service next time.

Checking in here on the West Coast project, all is looking good. Keep up the good work. Have a great weekend!
Thanks Groover! By the way, I received those side panels. They will be perfect, just have to get rid of that mother-of-pearl finish. Will send out your headlight soon. :)

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Re: New G5 Project
« Reply #51 on: February 10, 2017, 05:36:44 PM »
Good deal! looking forward in seeing more on this project, looks like you're getting a lot done.
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Re: New G5 Project
« Reply #52 on: February 11, 2017, 12:25:28 PM »
 Nice build, keep the posts coming!

Offline Antiquar

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Re: New G5 Project
« Reply #53 on: February 11, 2017, 07:46:23 PM »
Did the gearbox work today. Once again I neglected to take many photos when I got in the thick of it.

The input seal seemed alright, but the two o-rings under the clutch hub were in bad shape, and the input splines were covered in old gear oil. My guess is those are to blame for the majority of the bellhousing leak.


At any rate, I renewed them, the clutch hub, and the main input seal.



A peek inside the box.


I replaced the rest of the seals, shift spring, and helicoiled the drain plug, as there were hardly any threads left.

Once closed back up I verified I could shift the box by hand.

« Last Edit: February 11, 2017, 07:48:48 PM by Antiquar »

canuck750

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Re: New G5 Project
« Reply #54 on: February 12, 2017, 02:46:25 PM »
While you have everything apart take the crankcase breather tube and flat file the banjo end faces flat. My Eldo has refused to stop dripping after two transmission pulls, replaced rear main seals, sealed lower rear main bearing bolts, new bearing gaskets etc. Others here have found the darn vent tube banjo castings to not seal tight to the banjo bolt and crankcase even with new aluminum washers on each side of the banjo. My Eldo transmission comes out again this winter for hopefully the last time (in a very long time).
Nice progres

Jim

Offline Antiquar

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Re: New G5 Project
« Reply #55 on: February 13, 2017, 05:06:04 PM »
Thanks Jim, that's good advice. I will check that before putting her back together.

Spent my lunch break wrestling with the swingarm and managed to install the new bearings.

Carrier bearing:


One of the pivot bearings:



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Re: New G5 Project
« Reply #56 on: February 14, 2017, 08:15:39 AM »
Keep a close eye on the fit of the bushing that rides on the swing arm pivot bolt (the part that actually rides in the oil seal). I had to leave the oil seal popped out about ~1.5mm on one side (I think left side) on mine so it would actually seal properly. If I pushed the seal in flush with the edge of the swingarm (as you think it should be), I noticed the bushing actually missed making the seal it needed to make. Not sure if they are all like that, maybe something wonky on mine, but that's how I solved it (leaving the seal out just a bit, which required a new seal to fix it of course because you can't just pull out the seal without damaging it).
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Offline Antiquar

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Re: New G5 Project
« Reply #57 on: February 15, 2017, 09:24:38 PM »
Dropped the sump this evening.

Pretty sludgy, but nothing really alarming.


All clean now!


I will have to drop the sump again as I forgot the oil filter clamp.

A look into the crankcase

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Re: New G5 Project
« Reply #58 on: February 15, 2017, 10:16:36 PM »
My Convert sump looked just like that, though the engine internals were cleaner, as they should be at only 18k miles.
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Offline Antiquar

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Re: New G5 Project
« Reply #59 on: February 16, 2017, 11:50:54 AM »
My Convert sump looked just like that, though the engine internals were cleaner, as they should be at only 18k miles.

Should still look brand new at only 18k  :grin:

I opened up the valve covers and was greeted by this happy sight:


Looks worse than it is, the grime/sludge wipes away without too much effort. Everything moves as it should. Methinks the PO (however many) neglected oil change schedule. Will clean it up as best I can and run frequent oil changes.

I also cleaned up the intake manifold threads. RHS threads looked great after running a tap through them. LHS have been abused. There are some threads left but I may have to helicoil them.

 


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