Author Topic: Bacon Slicer project  (Read 68869 times)

Offline SED

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Bacon Slicer project
« on: July 27, 2017, 09:48:33 AM »
Look what followed me home...





It was advertised locally before we visited Mandello. I don't know anything about old Guzzis and don't need another bike, but after seeing so many of them running around there I decided to take the plunge.

Bacon slicer in Mandello del Lario (there was another slicer and a Galleto in the same spot)




It was advertised as a 1933 Model 157 (which doesn't exist). It's probably a 500cc GTV (GT = Grand Turismo spring frame, V = Valvole hemi-head) but not sure of the year, 1934- 1940? GTW is very similar with higher compression engine.  Seller said it was a runner, and indeed we got it to run, but it was so difficult to start and so out out of adjustment that it was not really ridable. I shifted into 3 gears up and down the driveway and didn't hear any terminal noises so decided to go for it.

Immediate problems are decompressor not working and bad gas(makes starting near impossible), fuel taps flowing very little gas, incredibly stiff clutch and throttle, broken brakes (don't stop)  :grin:, uncertain timing and oil flow.  It needs a lot of TLC and I love a project.

Carlo came over and we pulled the tank and drained the gas - the most incredibly evil smelling stuff  :shocked: 




We rinsed out the tank and were getting so much sediment and even chunks that we threw in a bunch of screws and did the shake. Took turns shaking and dumping the debris, which included chunks too large to fall out the filler neck - they looked like dirt. Then rinsed it again and dried it with compressed air and a hair drier.  After drying over night there were more loose chunks so I did the screw shake 3 more times and took a picture of what came out - this is AFTER cleaning it the day before!




Blew out the dust and sealed the tank and sloshed in some Ospho to kill the rust.  Let the Ospho sit for a day, sloshing occasionally, then dry for a couple days. 



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There was still some loose scale so did the screw shake one more time and blew out the dust.  It now looks like this inside.




Lots more to do so will post more later.

« Last Edit: August 09, 2017, 10:43:59 AM by SED »
1983 LeMans III
1981 Monza
1947 Ariel Red Hunter
1939 Ariel Red Hunter
1937 Guzzi GTV

Offline Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: Bacon Slicer project
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2017, 09:54:05 AM »
 :drool: Green with envy.
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Offline pehayes

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Re: Bacon Slicer project
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2017, 10:25:27 AM »
So, browse over and join the "guzzi-singles" forum at Google Groups.  Lots of practical advice there.

I'm currently touring the French Alps with a Falcone club.  Reports later.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

Online JeffOlson

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Re: Bacon Slicer project
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2017, 10:46:44 AM »
Wow! Very cool!
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Re: Bacon Slicer project
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2017, 10:46:44 AM »

Offline Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: Bacon Slicer project
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2017, 10:53:41 AM »
So, browse over and join the "guzzi-singles" forum at Google Groups.  Lots of practical advice there.

I'm currently touring the French Alps with a Falcone club.  Reports later.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/guzzi-singles

There's also a Facebook group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1435504550042601/
Charlie
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Offline jas67

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Re: Bacon Slicer project
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2017, 12:21:34 PM »
VERY cool!    I think I remember seeing that on CL or eBay.   
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Offline Sheepdog

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Re: Bacon Slicer project
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2017, 03:02:04 PM »
I love those old bikes. Short of a concours restoration, that's about as good a find as you could make. Now you'll need a pudding-bowl helmet and an oilskin coat!
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Offline Psychopasta

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Re: Bacon Slicer project
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2017, 03:06:15 PM »
Wonderful project! Looking forward to seeing what happens  :popcorn:

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Online RinkRat II

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Re: Bacon Slicer project
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2017, 06:22:32 PM »
 Man o man SED, she's beautiful. Older resto? Original patina? We gotta know the story!!!  Congrats!
   
  Paul B. :boozing:
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Offline JoeW

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Re: Bacon Slicer project
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2017, 08:34:48 PM »
Liking the bacon slicer, picked up a 52 Falcone over the winter. Can't wait to get it on the road.

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Offline ccoli

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Re: Bacon Slicer project
« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2017, 09:10:59 PM »



Here's My '32 Sport 15.... older than yours and definitely more patina.
Waiting on a rear sprocket to have her running again.
Hope you enjoy yours as much as I do mine.
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Offline SED

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Re: Bacon Slicer project
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2017, 12:12:44 AM »
Wow, great responses, thanks! 

Patrick, I joined the google groups and you've already helped me out!  Can't wait to hear about your trip through the Alps.

CColi, Great looking 15 Spot (as opposed to 1100 Spot).  I think the one of the bikes in Mandello was a Sport 15:




RinkRat, I think it's a cheapy cosmetic resto - the bike was disassembled and painted except for the wheels and the spring boxes and stand were left on the frame.  The paint is nice with very cool hand-painted pinstriping, but over spotty welding sputtering solder and cracking bondo. Very little money seems to have been spent for a mechanical restoration or maintenance (lots of clapped out parts, but the only replacement part I've found is a banjo fitting). Non-stock fasteners are metric, so most of this work was probably done years ago in Europe.  Fortunately these old Guzzis seem to be very tough!

Looks like the bike was crashed and front end parts replaced.  The front rim is in much better condition than the rear and the lower left side of the forks is not true. Inside the tank looks like it was smacked by the fork, pegs are bent and the front wheel appears to track to the right of the rear. Oil tank also dented and repaired on the left side. Presumably the bike hit something, requiring replacement of the front rim and repair of the tanks and new paint and then sold on.

The investigation continues...





1983 LeMans III
1981 Monza
1947 Ariel Red Hunter
1939 Ariel Red Hunter
1937 Guzzi GTV

Offline SED

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Re: Bacon Slicer project
« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2017, 12:46:16 AM »
First for me was to be able to kick the bike over so...

Because the decompressor didn't work people jumped on the kickstarter so hard they bent the center stand, the kick start lever and the kick starter shaft - on an engine with 5:1 compression! (it does have good compression)

Starting was made more difficult because the kick sprocket was 60* off so you could not get a full swing.




Drilled out the 6 rivets and re-riveted the sproket in the correct location:




clamped the kick lever and shaft in the vice and bent them back true with a cheater bar.




Center stand splayed out so much it let the rear tire sit on the ground and the bike lean over.




Stand bolts and lock-nut had been left loose so long that the threads in the frame were worn out and the stand eyes ovaled. Tapped the frame for a larger bolt on the right, and cut a shim on my Grandpa's lathe for the left:




Used MAPP gas to heat the stand and straighten it, then gave it a nice coat of Rustoleum. (A LOT of time tweaking and test fitting.)


1983 LeMans III
1981 Monza
1947 Ariel Red Hunter
1939 Ariel Red Hunter
1937 Guzzi GTV

Offline SED

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Re: Bacon Slicer project
« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2017, 10:21:31 AM »
Given that the fuel tank was so dirty a carb clean was in order.  The seller and I had a brief stack fire (starting fluid does not replace a working decompressor...) and there may have been more fires because the carb was black. Note the wire around the top cap in the photo:




Pulling the carb apart revealed a broken main jet (how does this happen???) and a lot of rusty crud in the float bowl.  The carb is a Dellorto MC26F and is about 80 years old!  It is very similar to the Amal remote float carbs, but the float chamber is part of the carb body so doesn't come loose on while riding :rolleyes:  It also has a replaceable pilot jet and seems to have a jet needle available in different tapers (this one is marked L5). The Dellorto seems way more sophisticated than the Amal, but don't know how well it works yet.

Soaked carb in Simple Green (Carlo's tip) and scrubbed with toothbrush.

Except for the main jet (Mikuni large round head), I've not found replacement parts for the carb so if anyone knows, please let me know.

The top cap was stuck to the carb body with some sticky goo as though they were trying to seal the threads and cutting the wire around it revealed it's purpose.  I should have known...




Put the cap back together, but the threads were found to be stripped from wear (explains the sticky goo). I searched the web and called the Dellorto importer, but couldn't find a replacement or determine if later tops are the same (40mm thread) so decided to try making one on my Grandfather's 1944 lathe which required me to figure out cutting threads.  :boozing:








I found some UHMW, cut the OD and ID with hole saws and then practiced cutting threads. Haven't figured out how to index the cut to make multiple passes on threads so just took it all at one cut - UHMW is soft. And the old lathe won't cut metric threads so used the closest - 20/inch.  And it worked!  :afro: 
Looks like a Santa hat!




UHMW is soft and doesn't like heat above 200*F, but this will work until I find the right part.

Cleaned the taps and resoldered the T fitting: (GUZZI is engraved on the older tap)




Away for the weekend so more work next week.



1983 LeMans III
1981 Monza
1947 Ariel Red Hunter
1939 Ariel Red Hunter
1937 Guzzi GTV

Offline smdl

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Re: Bacon Slicer project
« Reply #14 on: July 28, 2017, 10:35:24 AM »
Subscribed.  Really enjoying this, so far, and appreciate your resourcefulness!

 :popcorn:

Cheers,
Shaun
« Last Edit: July 29, 2017, 10:43:12 AM by smdl »
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Re: Bacon Slicer project
« Reply #15 on: July 29, 2017, 10:31:13 AM »
Great thread,  :1:love the bike, wish I had one!

Really looking forward to hearing about your impressions of riding it.


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Re: Bacon Slicer project
« Reply #16 on: July 29, 2017, 01:27:45 PM »
Ultimate coolness! Looking forward to the next installment.... :thumb:

Offline SED

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Re: Bacon Slicer project
« Reply #17 on: July 31, 2017, 11:35:14 AM »
Clean out your oil tanks or they could look like this.  Lots more lumpy black goo in the bottom of the tank too.




Rinsed several times with gasoline. It didn't get all the crud so had to add the screws and shake it like the gas tank.  More rinsing until nice and clean.

Roller bearings need very little oil but Guzzis have nice efficient rotary oil pumps that run at crankshaft speed. (Ariels used piston pumps run off the cam so give a little squirt of oil every other rotation of the crank. Somehow it works.)




The pump is actually two pumps - a gear pump under the gear and an impeller pump on the outside. The gear pump feeds oil from the oil tank through the upper tube into the end of the crankshaft. An anti-sumping valve is located under the cover (orange paint).




The workshop manual shows taking apart the pump for inspection. Not sure what I could do if I needed 80 year old parts, but wanted make sure there was nothing terrible inside.  The gear is on a taper and I did not have an appropriate puller so could not take the gear pump side apart. Instead it got a gasoline rinse and a flush with fresh oil before confirming that it would pump oil and lift the anti-sumping valve.

The impeller side pumps oil from the sump to the oil tank and was easier to take apart:




A look at the impeller revealed that someone had installed a spring that was too long and too skinny.  Because of the poor fit it had kinked and worn so badly it was about to fail completely.  I found a pen spring of the appropriate diameter and cut it to length. Second picture shows clean parts ready for reassembly.

 


I was hoping that, despite the neglect, this bike might not have been messed with mechanically, but if somebody took the time to take apart the oil pump and install such a poorly fitting spring there may be all kinds of horrible bodges inside. Guess I'll find out what (and fix it) when it breaks... :tongue:   Until then  :bike-037:!

Flushed the sump with some cheap 30wt delivered through the vent and then made a new gasket for the pump.

 


Connected the oil lines - one of the flares was badly crushed by over tightening and I've attempted to push it back into shape, but I'll be looking for a source of metric flare fittings...




Replaced the rubber cushions for the oil tank and installed the tank on the frame. 
A banjo fitting to the oil tank was badly crushed. The sides were pushed in forming a perfect recess for viton o-rings.  :cool:  It worked so well I used o-rings on the other banjo too




Dumped about a pint of oil in the sump through the vent, put 1.5 quarts in the oil tank, and spun the engine over and oil returned to the tank - success!  (The picture shows how close the intake manifold and oil tank sit - they have to be installed together - so I also cleaned up the intake flange and made a new gasket for it.)




More later! 






1983 LeMans III
1981 Monza
1947 Ariel Red Hunter
1939 Ariel Red Hunter
1937 Guzzi GTV

Offline Psychopasta

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Re: Bacon Slicer project
« Reply #18 on: July 31, 2017, 01:49:58 PM »
Hey SED,

Great report, thanks! When you say 'spun the engine over', was that by hand or is the engine a runner?

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Offline Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: Bacon Slicer project
« Reply #19 on: July 31, 2017, 02:23:10 PM »
Hey SED,

Great report, thanks! When you say 'spun the engine over', was that by hand or is the engine a runner?

- P

Kickstarter, I'd guess.
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Online Kiwi_Roy

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Re: Bacon Slicer project
« Reply #20 on: July 31, 2017, 02:50:34 PM »
I'm really enjoying this thread, I can only dream of finding a bacon slicer.


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Offline SED

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Re: Bacon Slicer project
« Reply #21 on: July 31, 2017, 02:56:02 PM »
Kickstarter, I'd guess.

Thanks PPasta.  Yes - Charlie's right.  But easy enough to "kick" it over with my arm when using the decompressor.

Charlie, I finally joined the facebook group too - Thanks!
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Offline SED

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Re: Bacon Slicer project
« Reply #22 on: July 31, 2017, 02:57:59 PM »
I'm really enjoying this thread, I can only dream of finding a bacon slicer.


Sent from my shoe phone!

Thanks Roy.  it's gotten to be a big distraction...  :grin:
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Offline Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: Bacon Slicer project
« Reply #23 on: July 31, 2017, 03:09:29 PM »
I was fortunate to have this '68 Falcone NT in my care for several years. Great fun to ride...  :bike-037:

Charlie
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Offline SED

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Re: Bacon Slicer project
« Reply #24 on: July 31, 2017, 03:21:12 PM »
I was fortunate to have this '68 Falcone NT in my care for several years. Great fun to ride...  :bike-037:



A great looking bike Charlie.  I'd noticed it in your avatar, better to see a larger picture.  It is surprisingly similar to the bike I'm working on (and much nicer condition!). What does the NT stand for?
1983 LeMans III
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1939 Ariel Red Hunter
1937 Guzzi GTV

Offline Dukedesmo

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Re: Bacon Slicer project
« Reply #25 on: July 31, 2017, 04:14:06 PM »
Nice  :thumb:


The boss at my first job (back in 1980) had a Guzzi single, 500 Falcone IIRC. I was intrigued by the exposed 'bacon slicer' flywheel, always thought it was a cool bike.
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Offline Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: Bacon Slicer project
« Reply #26 on: July 31, 2017, 04:43:16 PM »
A great looking bike Charlie.  I'd noticed it in your avatar, better to see a larger picture.  It is surprisingly similar to the bike I'm working on (and much nicer condition!). What does the NT stand for?

Nuovo Turismo. At one time, there were two different Falcones: Sport and Turismo. Eventually the Turismo was discontinued, but towards the end of "original" Falcone production, Guzzi built the Nuovo Turismo (not to be confused with the later Nuovo Falcone).
Charlie
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Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Bacon Slicer project
« Reply #27 on: August 01, 2017, 08:33:34 AM »
Excellent thread. Attaboy.. :smiley:
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Offline SED

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Re: Bacon Slicer project
« Reply #28 on: August 02, 2017, 10:50:26 AM »
The gear lever was removed to get access to the oil pump and was found to be very sloppy on it's pivot. 





A previous bodger had rolled some shim-stock in there to try to take up the slop.




Much of the wear was on the pivot pin so I decided to install a bushing to take up the wear and enlarge the OD. I bought the appropriate sized brass tube and machined the pin to fit.

   


Parts ready for assembly. The spring washer is in the original parts list.




Pulled the positive stop mechanism apart to check and lube. Strangely the pin that locates it (arrow) had been ground down - why?!




Gear shifter reassembled with much less play.


1983 LeMans III
1981 Monza
1947 Ariel Red Hunter
1939 Ariel Red Hunter
1937 Guzzi GTV

Online Matteo

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Re: Bacon Slicer project
« Reply #29 on: August 02, 2017, 11:42:16 AM »
Nice Sed, looking forward to the obligatory mountain photos  :popcorn:
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