Eldorado and the quest to ride a Moto Guzzi for the first time.

[LesP]

Most are snaps with my iPhone 6.

A new tool ready to test.



Curiosity go the better of me and have no intention of removing the swing arm in the future except for more lubrication on the splines (Redline CV2 grease) so thought it worthwhile.
It seemed like a simple enough thing, the machined part is a push fit into the universal carrier bearing, the splined coupler is a nice sliding fit.
Install the swing arm and move the coupler out until it will slide on the output shaft spline, measure the stick out of the pivots that thread into the frame and use those measurements as a reference when it is installed with the universal.
Guess what, the stick out for a sliding fit was close enough to even on both to be a surprise but you all knew that already.

[LesP]

[LesP]

The inside of the generator looked good, even the commutator < ? only needed a light clean up.
I did look up the Volkswagen version of this unit but will see if this one makes some electricity first, I bought a Bosch electronic regulator ages ago and have a full Greg Bender wiring loom...... two brown distributor caps from Italy and a new Bosch blue coil along with a Dyna ignition booster.

I drove the 40 minute return to get a new generator bearings (6202 & 6203 with shields) got back to find the invoice said 6202 but had been given a smaller 6200 (wrong shelf) so did the 40 minutes again to get the right one which was offered for free, thanks but declined.

[Rick4003]

Looks great all of it. It has never looked so or been so carefully assembled ever before!

[LesP]

I guess we will never know the true past of this bike but we will try and get it back to a condition it will be happy with, if the bike is happy it will most likely take me places (and back again).

I have tried to use a lot of the fasteners that came with it but am not sure what the actual originals are, some are obvious, others not so much so bought modern replacements. (Not to mention losing 5 of the 6 rear engine studs along the way, and half of the socket heads out of the rocker covers)
They are very shiny of course and then you get the mismatch thing starting.... does it matter, not really.

I soaked a new 8 mm zinc nut over night in white vinegar.

A nut that was on the bike to the left.

[LesP]

I will post this here, I have British bikes also.
These were tests done by a highly respected (Worldwide) Norton guru from the USA.

The Commando engine is air cooled, has push rods and a flat tappet camshaft and clearances not unlike the Moto Guzzi of old.
These are scar tests so are fairly tough on the oil and you would need to follow the links to the thread posts to see the full picture.

https://www.accessnorton.com/Oil-Tests/NortonOil.php

I read on FB this morning that you can not use synthetic oil in an older Moto Guzzi because the seals will leak, of course when you go to the 'seal shop they will ask you if you want a mineral oil or synthetic oil seal.

Yes Charlie, your Rotella T4 is there.    (Stage 1) but not available here in Australia.

[LesP]

I dropped the Bosch starter motor in at an auto electrical shop this morning to have a new set of brushes soldered in........... after some discussion I took back the rest of the starter motor (so it could be assembled and tested) and the generator for testing.

Before.
The starter motor commutator was in great condition like the generator and only needed a light clean up.
It seemed to work well the last time I used it in 2012 but a service could not hurt.

4 new brushes.
Two new bushes for the commutator to spin on.
The solenoid cap was removed and the the contact cleaned up and a general service and test.
I declined a paint job but can take it back for one if I want, a drama free day and got the the tour of the place to boot.

 

The generator was spun up and made 38/40 amps unregulated (Well I think that is what they said) less in service and also good to go........... I declined a paint job on that as well.
They can both be installed.

After.

 

[LesP]

I have bolting bits back on slowly..........

I got new wheel bearings from Germany some time back but in place the shimming was quite a bit out (loose) and more shims were not readily available and the ones I did find were a 500 mimimum order.
I then machined new spacer tubes from 4140 and lapped them the final 0.0001" with the axle torqued to spec each time. (no shims)
They are in place with Redline CV2 moly grease along with new seals.

 

The bike came with white wall tyres/tires and elected to stay with that (Dunlop D177F)



There were nuts dropped down one holder on the fork leg (to secure the front murderer/fender) so I made some new ones along with brass washers and the old bolts.
These blocks are 35 mm long, 10 mm wide by 6 mm thick.
M6 threaded holes, top of block to the bottom hole was 26 mm and back 18.5 mm to the first hole (centres/centers)

Some VHT Barrel paint and they fit nicely.
The front guard needed a bit of tweaking at the stays to fit nicely and on centre without rubbing on the fork shroud as it had been doing.



I think these M8 bolts were out of the crankshaft bearing flanges, a clean up and yes brass washers with new Nylocs.



Note the paint, this is a mechanical only bike but got extra polish on the old paint.



I knew the brakes were poor when we rolled the bike off the transporter back in 2012 but surfaced the shoes (with a mask) as they may very well be the originals being green coloured with copper.
Fitting them proved optimistic was unwarranted, the lever travel could be measured with a calendar down at the hub so they will need to be replaced but the fronts are the early type with a full pivot hole in the shoe and are not available as a off the shelf part.

I should have clicked much earlier to the brakes based on this picture from when the bike was listed for sale.
The arm is well back and when in the hub there is probably 2 mm or more clearance shoes to brake hub ID to get contact.
I found two places to have the old shoes re bonded, one 100 kms away, the other 800 kms, it will depend on what material they will use, the later says they use MZ Gold which works well, I would need to arc them to suit the drums.

[LesP]

I am going to remove the L/H floor board rail and cut the shift pivot tube with its bushes off.
There are some weird things going on including the transition up to the gearbox being on an old angle and to far rearward.
Converting the pedals to ball bearings set extra work in motion, they move nicely but the shaft is floppy so will rollerise that that too so it will be fit and forget but easy repair but not by me.

[LesP]

[LesP]

[shiskowd]

Wow - is this the end??

[LesP]

There are still a lot of small things to do yet and those are the things that can catch you out on the road.

As posted up the page, I need to get the brake shoes relined and did ring ring one company within 100 kms about doing it who seemed quite put out that I wanted to arc the shoes myself.
There is no way I am going to let the wheels and brake backing plates out of my sight as the risk of them getting damaged is to high so will most likely post the shoes the 800 kms to another state for relining.

I did make a quick shoe 'expander which worked well, the spigot fits into the axle hole and is secured with a heavy washer and bolt so it can not depart the backing plate in use.

[LesP]

Whoops.... All the previous photos from a week or so back show the pulley flange the right way then I put it on back to front and torqued the nut but explains the head scratching today.
At least the low tech crankshaft holder will make it an easy remedy.

[LesP]

No roll pins so drove down to the city and back to get some (M3 x 16 mm and some 1/8" x 5/8" just in case)
 I stopped off at the local billiard shop (I sold my 8' by 4' to them the other year) and they gave me some felt but ended up stopping at a big fabric shop (Spotlight) on the way back and they had a thicker more woolly felt.
The original felt is AWOL somewhere.

Maybe it is the grey hair, but at the counter the lady says, if you have a VIP card its 30% off (I didn't) but a lady behind me had her card out in flash for the discount, I thanked her of course... Only $4 and enough to do at least 500 distributor oil felts for under the top bush.

It can go back together this afternoon.
I have enough spare parts to do 500000 miles.... I got one cap off MG Cycle, two brown ones off a eBay (Italy) for a Fiat 500 (iirc) but the rotors will not work it seems but will still have 4 caps and three rotors (MGC) to keep me going for a bit including the cap and rotor that came on the bike.
Yes I got a Dyna Ignition Booster some time back and a new coil and spark plugs.

Oddly enough I was going to get the fancy plugs @ $20+ each but some research showed they are only good for longevity and old school copper core might still be the go to plug for the best conduction.
When I mentioned this to the guy at the store he mentioned being at the drag strip and that is what they were putting in a 'Top Fueller to his surprise.
If they are good enough for top fuel they should be OK in the Eldorado.



The distributor was in good condition so only got a light clean up on the pad for the securing bolt.
I will machine a shim to reduce the shaft end float.

[s1120]

Oddly enough I was going to get the fancy plugs @ $20+ each but some research showed they are only good for longevity and old school copper core might still be the go to plug for the best conduction.
When I mentioned this to the guy at the store he mentioned being at the drag strip and that is what they were putting in a 'Top Fueller to his surprise.
If they are good enough for top fuel they should be OK in the Eldorado.



The distributor was in good condition so only got a light clean up on the pad for the securing bolt.
I will machine a shim to reduce the shaft end float.

I really always had the best luck with the normal coper plugs.. As you said... unless you have something that designed for something special that is going to last 100K...  just copper works, vary well, and is priced right.

Back in my drag racing days, and not having good aftermarket units [that I could afford then!] spent a lot of time shimming distributors. It was amazing how far some of them were out.. 

[LesP]

To get 0.15 mm on the distributor took making a shim which is done.
Speaking of copper, there are quite a few small jobs that I had put on the back burner, one being the front fork drain screws after I finally found where they went.
Found the spot but had no sealing washers that small so made some.

That means the fork oil can go in (Redline 30wt synthetic) and the top fork caps can be torqued.

[LesP]

It is sinking in there is probably not one item on this bike that has not been bodged or worn out (in 15000 miles)

I had forgotten the seat, why does it have UNC threads and the studs are spaced imperially and not even close to that on the frame.
When I got the bike it has washers on the inside of the front lugs which were then bent inward when some DPO cranked the bolt up.
They are an odd seat, the rear is down and the nose points up with the two mounts hitting the side cover brackets.

I raised the rear 19 mm and machined top hat spacers to suit the 11 mm hole in the frame (That the last person put a 8 mm bolts through)  after spending some time straightening the seat front lugs.









The fuel tank clunks side to side, that is next along with the taps being checked over and new indexing washers.......... I ordered new jets etc for the carburettors (locally) early in the week, its the weekend, the money was taken and the order is still on hold.
I should have ordered them off MG Cycle and will most likely place Order #14 with them next week which will push expenditure at that store close to US$6000 alone not including international post.

I did do a test seating, the floorboards are kind of comfortable as are those wacky handlebars (I did try a set of Norton Commando bars) and the WW tyres are growing on me......... I think the expense will be forgotten by second gear.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

I had forgotten the seat, why does it have UNC threads and the studs are spaced imperially and not even close to that on the frame.
When I got the bike it has washers on the inside of the front lugs which were then bent inward when some DPO cranked the bolt up.
They are an odd seat, the rear is down and the nose points up with the two mounts hitting the side cover brackets.

I'm guessing it's a Harper's solo seat, made in the US, hence the "UNC" threads. Later seats have shorter studs and it has been suggested to Harper's that they make them metric, don't know if they've changed them or not though. The front bracket is too wide, on most Loop frames anyway, but not on a few. Mine needed two thick washers on each side between the bracket and frame.

As for the "rear down" position, that's how the original seats (LAPD) that the Harper's solo is modeled after were. In my experience, that's also the way they are most comfortable - I mounted one higher in the rear and it was nowhere near as comfortable as the "rear down" one that's on my V700 (and '69 and '71 Ambassadors before that). 

[LesP]

If the rear of the seat is down hard the studs bend outwards, the thread is already sad on the inside side from rubbing on the frame as I got it........ I will see how it goes.

I suppose I could start looking at batteries and what to get.... I got oil today and will fill and prime the engine.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

If the rear of the seat is down hard the studs bend outwards, the thread is already sad on the inside side from rubbing on the frame as I got it........ I will see how it goes.

I suppose I could start looking at batteries and what to get.... I got oil today and will fill and prime the engine.

Must be a production "variation". I've installed five of the Harper's seats for customers and myself and the stud spacing was fine.

[LesP]

Who knows, but the studs scrape down the inner side of the frame slots to the point the thread was worn down.
Maybe the frame is bent.

I am going to take a break from it today.

[balvenie]

You're doing great, Les. Enjoy your break  

[LesP]

Thanks. 

I thought I might get the sump buttoned up first, the M8 to M6 step studs held the gasket (I put it on dry but would normally have wiped on Loctite 515 both sides) in place and it went on nicely.
Another change is I have decided to to use high ZDDP Penrite multi grade mineral running in oil which is allowed for up to 500 kms (300 miles).

I will need to make some form of spacers to fit the three Eldorado 'bash strips to this later sump (or look up what they had and get some)
As posted back a ways, I also decided to leave the spacer out.

[LesP]

When I got the bike the ignition switch had been moved to the police dash which I didn't give to much thought to until I removed it, at least the installer had had a go .... but as a boilermaker the holes could have been a little neater even if they worked.

The trip meter reset which would have been where the ignition switch had been moved to but had been moved to that new location care of another 'custom made bigger hole.
By default I need to tidy things up due to buying a complete new police loom off Greg Bender and had not really thought about the ignition switch which is mounted back by the L/H rear shock on that model.

All I have to do is......
Move the ignition switch to the rear of the bike to suit the new loom. (which I like)
Move the trip reset back to where it belongs but the hole is way to big.
Fit the push pull switch to where the reset had been moved to but the hole is to big.
Then the loom will be plug and play again.
How hard could that be..............

[Rick4003]

Hi Les, Looking good! That is some very pretty holes the PO have left you with, are you going to weld a new piece in or just make an adapter ring to fit?

I'm getting closer to being able to move my milling machine into the workshop :) Can't wait :)

[LesP]

Nice timing 

I just finished one with a brass insert (with another at the back, the trip reset holds them together)
The dash is only 2.6 mm thick so these had to be as thin as possible, the spigot at the rear is only 0.15 mm in depth to locate it in the new hole.

 







I hope you have or will get a DRO for your mill, it makes things very easy (or perhaps in time an old skill will be forgotten)

[LesP]

When I lived in Darwin I did buy a small lathe (left at my Brothers workshop) when I fit the RMZ forks to my DR650.
No mill but there are still files.
You can make a reasonable radius using a suitable diameter steel washers and then checking looks from 10 feet away.

I needed to make two alloy brackets to mount the indicators to the new forks, two holes at the triple pinch bolts, one for the indicator stem, file to the washer.
Perhaps a ID hole could be done the same.








I went through the Moto Guzzi's Lucas indicators last week but will need to find another flasher relay perhaps, the DB panniers have two orange lights each and the flasher I have says for 4 bulbs max (not 6)... We will see once I get the battery hooked up.

[LesP]

Nothing wrong with the ignition switch, clean and back together.



Jetting arrived today, 50 pilots, 130 mains. V9 needles.
For you US folk, that is $100 ($70) and 16 days local post , never complain about MG Cycle... What if i had been on a hurry. 



I got some NOS late push rods off ScoutKB (the famous guy) not only did he charge me only $22 international post (that local order was $14) but he has or had a Sunbeam S7 Deluxe so must be alright.

Just pretend there is a push rod picture here.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

I got some NOS late push rods off ScoutKB (the famous guy) not only did he charge me only $22 international post (that local order was $14) but he has or had a Sunbeam S7 Deluxe so must be alright.

Just pretend there is a push rod picture here.

"Late pushrods". How "late"? There's a difference in the radius of the ball and socket ends, early vs. late. You need cam followers/lifters and adjuster screws to match that radius.