monkey see monkey crash

[nsmith]

Last week Sunday I on my Breva 1100 and a friend on his Suzuki 1500 doing some spirited riding. When I got to the next corner I look back and no friend. So I head back to find him walking but the bike is belly up on a field approach. Long story but today he said "if is was anyone else it would have been a lot worse" HE WAS FOLLWING ME... If it were me I would not have messed up my bike. So how do I get him to understand it was his lack of ability that caused him to loose it. or more to the point, how do I get him to ride his own ride and let me have my fun on the curves without simply getting him all pissed off. I can come off as a bit brash at times but this guy doesn't think he did anything wrong.
Thanks Neil

[fotoguzzi]

enroll him in a riding class.

[Lannis]

Gotta pick your riding partners carefully, that's all.

I'm a fairly conservative rider, I don't want to die doing something stupid like hammering through a blind turn faster than I can stop if a stalled truck or gravel drift suddenly appears.   

So if I'm riding in front, I'll be sure I'm riding with a guy who will either be happy riding at my speed, or dropping off the back, or go ahead and YOU take the lead if you like riding faster.

And if I'm riding in back, and

1) He's riding slower than I like, I kick back and enjoy the roses and I just follow.
2) He's riding at the same speed I would, I enjoy the ride like I would riding by myself.
3) He's riding a LITTLE faster than what I like, I tighten up and take advantage of the fact that he's in front, and if something's lurking there where I can't see and he finds it first, I'll know when I see the oil sump, transmission, and tires of his bike and I'll have an extra bit of a second to compensate.
4) He's riding a LOT faster than what I like, I let him go, and he can either see that I've dropped off the back and slow down, or he can hold his speed and we'll meet up at the next gas stop.

That way, it's ALL good!

Lannis

[oldbike54]

 If he is riding one of those 1500 CC Intruders he has no business even attempting to hang with any Guzzi built since 1967 . Seriously , those things are a pig on roller skates . Not much you can do about someone having a false idea of their riding abilities , except let them scare the fool out of themselves a couple of times. Well , maybe a good riding school like FG suggested , but I have known that to create an even more over inflated sense of skill in some riders .

  Dusty

[not-fishing]

35 years ago I rode with two friends to Napa from Folsom.  We took the Lake Berryessa route.

I was riding a Honda 400F that I had Cafe'd  (Ceriani front springs, Koni rears, Grizzly Exhaust, K& N's, Dyno tuned, rearsets, Clipons and Don Vesco 1/2 fairing), my buddies were following in a Honda 550F and Triumph Bonneville.  I was clearly the low man on the totem with the little 400.

After the lake the 55 mph posted road gets tight.  I just started shifting my weight and weaving the corners.  I stopped shortly after the first tight set and waited, and waited, and waited.  After five minutes I turned around with a feeling of Dread.

When I found them they were picking themselves off the ground. Nothing was hurt other than Ego's.

After than I learned to be more attentive to who was following me.  and the word got around the Restaurant that we all worked at not to "chase the little 400 Cafe through the corners"

I learned not to allow most regular riders to "follow" me.

Mark

[nsmith]

All good comments I guess I'll just let him go. I like that road. I was driving fast but understand I could see the entire curve and I was not showboating. However I do enjoy that road. I think riding alone is always best. I bitch about those slow ass drivers so why do I invite them to ride with me. Not again. If they can't ride there own ride then I will ride my own ride. That way I don't have to turn around to find a messed up bike and rider.
Neil

[Vasco DG]

While a Breva isn't the best handling bike in the world at least it handles like a bike rather than a feral shopping trolley with a wonky wheel. A 1500 land yacht hasn't a hope of keeping up. If he can't relise this he needs a bus pass.

Pete

[rboe]

If he did nothing wrong, why did he crash?

If he still does not understand that he should think of doing something else.

A mistake was made and he should be making every attempt to find out what it was so he reduces the chance of repeating it.

[pressureangle]

I learned his lesson on the racetrack. Other than a few dirt roads on a H-D 350 Sprint, I started flat tracking before I went street riding.

I saw the fast guys on the custom racers, and figured 'hey we both have 2 wheels so if I ride hard enough I can keep up'. Of course, I ended up on my ass every weekend until I figured out that all wheels are not equal, no matter who's riding it. Some people have to be sat down and explained the physics of it; pointing out that there is no rope between your bike and theirs doesn't seem to be effective.

[Triple Jim]

Last fall I was on the Mille, leading in a group of three, and took a spirited right curve on a deserted country road.  The guy behind me was on a Hayabusa with an extended swing arm.  The last guy was on a '76 GL1000 Gold Wing.  The Hayabusa guy didn't even try to make the curve.  He rode straight into the woods instead.  Luckily there was a small dirt path with an open gate, and he sailed down the path and stopped.  I did what you did, nsmith, except luckily there was no crash.  But I went back to see where the others were, and heard that there had been a little confusion.  The Gold wing guy told me me the whole story later, saying he couldn't believe what he had witnessed.

Same deal here, I don't plan to invite Hayabusa-boy along again, unless I commit to taking all the fun curves at a speed he is safe with, which is apparently about what the amber "caution" signs recommend.

[earemike]

get him to ride his own ride

That's the crux of it. Apart from not riding with people I don't know (for a spirited ride) anyone who rides should ride within their ability/comfort zone. I'm fine with waiting at the next turn off if they're having fun, much better than calling an ambulance and organising a bike tow!

The V11 occasionally puts a nose out of joint because it's not expected to keep up with or pass kids on more pure sports bikes but that says volumes about their attitude.

[savagehenry]

And DO have him read Nick Ienisitch's  "The Pace", a classic m/c piece he'll find on line which deals specifically with this situation. Probably spelled his last name wrong, but close enough to get him there.

[oldbike54]

 Have taught a few neophytes how to ride . One of the first things I tell them is something a very experienced rider and racer said to me almost fifty years ago .
"Put your ego in your pocket" .  
                                                   
                                                               "Ienatsch"
 Dusty                                                                    

[Kent in Upstate NY]

I was on a ride years ago with some SoCal hooligans. Todd E. led the ride and parameters were discussed beforehand. "Ride your own pace, we will wait for you when the direction changes." However, hand signals were not clear and a guy missed the "slow down" signal and ended up with a minor scratch and a broken bike. Nothing serious, but it helps to be clear to all your riding partners as to  what to look for.

[lucydad]

Plus one on Lannis comments..

I only ride with people I know.  Forget group rides with young guys too...at least around here...its always a hormonal competition..

[canuck750]

I just came back from a weeks riding trip with my biking buddy, we have ridden together for +15 years and I have never found another rider who is so in tune, I never feel at risk riding with him, not behind, beside or in front. I have ridden with lots of other guys that are all over the road, following too close, not paying attention, over confident, etc....

Sound like your buddy was 'following' and not riding behind you, there is a big difference. Followers will always get themselves or others in  trouble, they are not watching the road ahead and don't anticipate the upcoming events.

This guy may benefit from training but my guess is he won't learn much, either you have it or you don't. Some people just should not be riding.

[rodekyll]

All of my highway crashes have been because I was trying to ride the bike/car/whatever ahead of me.  One day a buddy of mine pointed that out to me and told me to ride my bike, not his.  It didn't piss me off at all to get that revelation, and I have not crashed a bike since.  So I'd say give it a context and then give him the message.  It's the most import survival rule of riding together.

[rboe]

Sound like your buddy was 'following' and not riding behind you

Thanks, that is exactly what I need to remind myself from time to time (I don't ride with folks that often so this is excellent advise and timely reminder).
 :bow

[Kiwi_Roy]

I was lucky when I started riding again, my riding buddy is much better than I
He taught me how to focus on where I want to go and not look were I don't e.g. the ditch.
Don't be afraid to apply the brakes mid corner if you find yourself going too fast.

Perhaps he just needs to have a talk with a better rider.

[Nic in Western NYS]

Thanks, that is exactly what I need to remind myself from time to time (I don't ride with folks that often so this is excellent advise and timely reminder).
 :bow

Even in a car I don't like the "just follow me" or "I'll follow you" situations.  Makes me have to think about someone else.  That's hard for me.  : )

[dilligaf]

I prefer to ride alone.  However, when I do ride with someone I've learned to put the slow rider in the lead and most of the time that is me.  :BEER:
Matt

[Rough Edge racing]

  I used to ride hard and liked to be near the front of pack... I found it easy to follow the leader figuring my skills and bike were equal to the leader.Sometimes getting close up to see what he might do.....I never like to ride two abreast like some do, no room to maneuver if something goes wrong.

[redrider]

Our group has had a couple of folks with vision problems but vanity keeps them away from the Optometrist. Scary to watch them corner. Thankfully, the have moved on.

[Tobit]

A few years ago on the BRP I was out for a Sunday morning ride and came upon an out of state guy on a Sportster with luggage.  He was running at a good pace given the blind corners so I stayed far enough back so as not to pressure or give the impression I was going to sail by at the next short straight.

He sped up, I maintained and lost sight of him until rounding a left-hander and finding him picking the bike and parts up off the grass on the shoulder.  I stopped to help him out, parked the LeMans at the entrance of the corner with the flashers on and we had a pretty nice conversation.  Older guy, heading home to Pennsylvania after visiting Florida.  He'd run wide, onto the wet grass and went down.  Broken turn signals, bent brake pedal, scuffed leather bag, but no other damage.  The ranger showed up, helped us out and we all went on our way.

A few years before that I rode with two new young guys, one on a Yamaha FZ1000, and it was not a good experience.  Every straight was a drag race, every corner a knee down squid fest.  I let them go and never saw them again.

I prefer to ride alone.

Tobit

[Kev m]

And DO have him read Nick Ienisitch's  "The Pace", a classic m/c piece he'll find on line which deals specifically with this situation. Probably spelled his last name wrong, but close enough to get him there.

It's been a while, but I thought "The Pace" talked about riding FAST in the curves and slowing down/regrouping on the straights?

Didn't this guy have trouble with a curve?

[Spuddy]

"Put your ego in your pocket" .

No finer advise - succinctly said.

Spuddy

[Testarossa]

Many years ago I had a weekend commute to a camp in NW Connecticut, and came to know the lovely US 7, along the west bank of the Housatonic, like the back of my hand. One Sunday a friend asked to follow along on his new Beemer. I motored off on the Dustalled Honda 500/4 at my usual pace, watching him in the mirrors. After about 10 miles he failed to appear after an S-curve. I went back to find him lying flat on his back in the road, dazed but unhurt, with the bike in the right-hand ditch. He'd gone wide and up an embankment into a tree. The right cylinder protected his leg but was torn loose from its forward studs.

[Kiwi_Roy]

Coming back from a two week trip to California I came around a sharp corner to find my buddy picking himself up out of the ditch.
We figured we both got used to using the MPH speed warnings South of the border, back to Canada where they are in KPH
There's a big difference in 50 KPH and 50 MPH.

Be careful when riding from the US to Canada

[Nic in Western NYS]

Many years ago I had a weekend commute to a camp in NW Connecticut, and came to know the lovely US 7, along the west bank of the Housatonic, like the back of my hand. One Sunday a friend asked to follow along on his new Beemer. I motored off on the Dustalled Honda 500/4 at my usual pace, watching him in the mirrors. After about 10 miles he failed to appear after an S-curve. I went back to find him lying flat on his back in the road, dazed but unhurt, with the bike in the right-hand ditch. He'd gone wide and up an embankment into a tree. The right cylinder protected his leg but was torn loose from its forward studs.

I knew those BMW cylinders were hanging out there for some good reason.  (Glad he was ok).

[Kev m]

Coming back from a two week trip to California I came around a sharp corner to find my buddy picking himself up out of the ditch.
We figured we both got used to using the MPH speed warnings South of the border, back to Canada where they are in KPH
There's a big difference in 50 KPH and 50 MPH.

Be careful when riding from the US to Canada

REALLY?

Do people really look at those signs, then look at their speedo, all while setting up for a curve?

I mean, I HAVE compared the two now and again when I was curious or bored.

But USUALLY I set up for a curve by sight line and adjusting speed from feel based on that.

And if I don't have a clear sight line, I slow more...