moly, is it really needed

[rbond]

Since I am using full synthetic oil in the rear end, do I still need to put moly in too? With synthetic it just seems like overkill.....

[Two Checks]

As long as the oil is rated GL-5 it isnot needed.

[Lannis]

Since I am using full synthetic oil in the rear end, do I still need to put moly in too? With synthetic it just seems like overkill.....

Check your owner's manual for the bike you're riding.  It has a whole lot better information in it than the "Well I use it and my bike's doing fine" and "Well I don't use it and my bike's running fine" that you'll get here ....

Lannis

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Helps if we know what bike.

[Wayne Orwig]

Don't hate me for feeding an oil thread....
But what the heck does using synthetic have to do with the EP additive? If the manual says use moly, don't you technically still need moly?
And yes, I know that most rear dive lube has some moly.
 

[Two Checks]

The moly requirement was when GL-4 was the recommended lubricant.

[sib]

I agree with Lannis here.  it's amazing what you can find in the owner's manual, answers to burning questions that get asked over and over again on this forum, including "what should my valve adjustments be?", what should my spark plug gap be?", what weight oil should I use?", "what tire pressures should I use?", etc.  For some mysterious reason, the manufacturer has done research to determine these things, and it actually releases the results to the general public, in the form of owner's manuals.  Who would have thought?

[youcanrunnaked]

If a rear diff is spec'd to use GL-4 oil + moly, I would think it best to use that, rather than GL-5 without moly.  While GL-5 has a slightly higher EP rating that GL-4, how can you say whether GL-5 alone is the EP equivalent of GL-4 + moly, without extensive testing to prove it?  Otherwise, you're just guessing.

Also, my understanding is that GL-5 causes additional wear on brass and other soft metals, which is why it is not recommended for certain transmissions, where it can muck up the synchros.  No idea if that concern applies to any Guzzi rear differentials (or transmission), though.  Anyone?

[Dilliw]

If a rear diff is spec'd to use GL-4 oil + moly, I would think it best to use that, rather than GL-5 without moly.  While GL-5 has a slightly higher EP rating that GL-4, how can you say whether GL-5 alone is the EP equivalent of GL-4 + moly, without extensive testing to prove it?  Otherwise, you're just guessing.

Also, my understanding is that GL-5 causes additional wear on brass and other soft metals, which is why it is not recommended for certain transmissions, where it can muck up the synchros.  No idea if that concern applies to any Guzzi rear differentials (or transmission), though.  Anyone?

The EV's were spec'd for Rotra MP which is listed as meeting GL-5.  The spec was MP 80/90 + molykote and there's no mention of GL-4 or GL-5.

I doubt a little moly can hurt though and it's pretty cheap to get:


http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00CPL8UPY/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

[Dilliw]

Oh by bike:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CB8QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.harpermoto.com%2Fpm65%2FTechnical%2520Data%2520Sheet.pdf&ei=XZkZVbbJHK3IsATEhYCAAg&usg=AFQjCNEe3m9M23wA2OM3SJJatI40hZWucw&sig2=VB50EMPSO37o-UUm3KiQcA&bvm=bv.89381419,d.cWc&cad=rja

[Two Checks]

Actually the GL-5 doesn't muck up sychros, it's too slippery for many. Not enough friction for the synchros to slow in order to do their job.

And the OP specifically asked about the final drive, so the point about synchros is moot, albeit good general info.

[sib]

Not sure about the other MG gearboxes, but the 5-sp on the V7 Stone/Special/Racer doesn't have synchros, it uses clash gears (horrible, but descriptive term).  And no brass parts as far as I'm aware.

[Lannis]

Actually the GL-5 doesn't muck up sychros, it's too slippery for many. Not enough friction for the synchros to slow in order to do their job.

And the OP specifically asked about the final drive, so the point about synchros is moot, albeit good general info.

He did ask.   He (per previous posts) has a 2012 V7C.

Looks like the best way we could help him is by pulling up a copy of the owner's or the shop manual and letting him know whether a moly additive of any kind is specified for his bike?

Nobody's done that yet; we're just doing the usual thing of going back and forth about GL4 and GL5 and the difference between gearboxes and transmissions and synthetic and dino and all that.

I don't have access to a copy myself.

Lannis

[HDGoose]

RTFM.

[Dilliw]

Closest I found was 2011:

http://www.thisoldtractor.com/mg_manuals/owners_manual_v7_cafe_classic_2011_ed.01_usa-cdn.pdf

No Moly listed.

[Arizona Wayne]

I've used GL5 rearend oil in an `71 Ambo., `80 Convert, `81 CX100(over 100K mi.), `87 LM IV, `04  750 Breva with NO moly added and have had NO rearend oil issues whatsoever !!   ;-T  Give this argument a rest.

[Sasquatch Jim]

  I thought the moly was there to help blacken your fingers when working on the bike.

[charlie b]

No, the moly only works if you are wearing a white shirt and a tshirt does not count.

The more expensive it is the better the moly works :)

[Triple Jim]

Moly and Never-Seez are very similar in their ability to color things.  A gram of either one is capable of covering fourteen square miles of surface in a dark silver-grey.

[oldbike54]

Moly and Never-Seez are very similar in their ability to color things.  A gram of either one is capable of covering fourteen square miles of surface in a dark silver-grey.

 I once sat down on a full open tube of high temp anti seize with predictable results  ::)

  Dusty

[Groover]

Some info here on this thread I posted a while ago. Lots of input, and many hours of research on my end and great input from others. - yes, I obsess sometimes, and the linked thread shows sings of my sickness  ;D

http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=70913.0


Good luck.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

So after Lannis did his best Sherlock Holmes impression and found that the bike in question in the original post was a 2012 V7, I had a look at the owner's manual where it simply says: AGIP GEAR MG SAE 85W-140 . No mention of moly. Draw your own conclusion.

[Chuck in Indiana]

So after Lannis did his best Sherlock Holmes impression and found that the bike in question in the original post was a 2012 V7, I had a look at the owner's manual where it simply says: AGIP GEAR MG SAE 85W-140 . No mention of moly. Draw your own conclusion.

Yeah but.... you're trusting a Guzzi manual to be correct.  ;D

[ohiorider]

Have to ask ..... don't most motorcycle transmissions use shift dogs vs synchronizer rings?  My 1200 Sport and Griso8vSE both shift extremely smoothly, but so does my 24 year old R100GS that uses shift dogs.  If my Sport and Griso have synchronizers, I've been doing a lot of throttle/clutch/rpm synchronization for nothing.  But I don't think they do.

Bob

[Rough Edge racing]

 Motorcycle transmissions use dog clutch but no cone clutches (synchos)...Cars have "dogs" also  but the teeth are very fine and need the synchro cone clutches to match up the dog teeth speeds for silent engagement.
   Down shift a bike slowly without blipping the throttle and they all crunch to some degree.
  Modern design cars tyranny generally have fibre synchros suitable for use with ATF , motor oil or lighter gear oils . The older vehicles and some newer trucks have what people call brass, but is usually forged bronze synchro rings. They rely on friction and for some, as mentioned ,GL5 oil is too slippery because of friction modifiers.
 There's also reports of the increased sulfur in GL5 oil eroding the yellow metals. Generally though to happen at high oil temperatures.....
 Does a Guzzi have brass or bronze thrust washers in the trans or rear axle? If so and no one is reporting problems ...it's of no concern I suppose

[Triple Jim]

Does a Guzzi have brass or bronze thrust washers in the trans or rear axle? If so and no one is reporting problems ...it's of no concern I suppose

From the thread linked above:

Does any Guzzi transmission or final drive contain any "yellow metal" parts that GL-5 oil would tend to corrode?

Yes. Loop and Tonti rear drives have a thrust washer that is some sort of yellow metal and all of the gears of 4 spds. run on yellow metal bushings. That is why I only use CRC Sta-Lube GL-4 Gear Oil or a GL-5 that specifies "safe for yellow metals" in 4 spds.

[Dick]

Yeah but.... you're trusting a Guzzi manual to be correct.  ;D

What was he thinking?  ;D

[Lannis]

Yeah but.... you're trusting a Guzzi manual to be correct.  ;D

Oh, I'd MUCH rather trust the "average" of 17 different opinions that say you should mix everything from acetone to moly to clarified butter to straight 90W to Marvel Mystery Oil into your gasoline, engine oil, and/or rear drive lube ....

If I "average out" any advice on the right lube for my bike, it'll be what Charlie and/or Pete says, which is generally "go with the manual".   

Lannis

[Dilliw]

So after Lannis did his best Sherlock Holmes impression and found that the bike in question in the original post was a 2012 V7, I had a look at the owner's manual where it simply says: AGIP GEAR MG SAE 85W-140 . No mention of moly. Draw your own conclusion.

And interesting enough, although my owner's manual says to use molykote the Technical Data Sheet I linked above from Moto Guzzi Service does not even for the models going back to the early '90s.  

[Chuck in Indiana]

And interesting enough, although my owner's manual says to use molykote the Technical Data Sheet I linked above from Moto Guzzi Service does not it for even the models going back to the early '90s. 

And I reiterate:  ;D

Yeah but.... you're trusting a Guzzi manual to be correct.  Grin