Rideapart on MG's Future - and On Rubbish Models

[JeffOlson]

Most weeks, my commute is just one day. Some weeks, I may need to travel two or three days. Still, on average, I am commuting less than when I lived 20 miles from my office and commuted five days a week, often taking 90 minutes each way (or, 15 hours per week).  Now, I work from home at the beach as much as I can...

[rdbandkab]

I don't know why,  but I just don't like BMW's....not even their cars. 

Well... Maybe one exception.  Their old 650 that shared an engine with aprilia (Rotax). 

I don't know what Moto Guzzi or aprilia are going to do next,  but I have faith one of them will build something that ticks all the right boxes.  So far, so good!

If not.. Maybe I'll buy something I really don't need....or can't use -   Kawi H2 SX SE.  Get back to my Sport Touring roots....ahem...

[rodekyll]

Huh ? Read back over the entire thread .

 Dusty

I did before I asked.  The only things I see are the presentation of the article and a failure to drink the kool-aid.
He's not flattering the Marquee, but being a contrarian isn't a crime -- yet.

  I can start posting pictures of the ungreased bearings, swollen filters, bubbling engines, warty gas tanks, fake recall service and peeling chrome I've collected if you think criticism of the brand is unjustified.

[JeffOlson]

I don't know why,  but I just don't like BMW's....not even their cars. 

Well... Maybe one exception.  Their old 650 that shared an engine with aprilia (Rotax).

I have never had a BMW motorcycle, but I have owned about 20 BMW cars over the years. I’m currently on my third of the large land-yacht version. I really do like the bigger ones! 120 mph, stable as a rock, and whisper quiet (or so I have heard).

[rdbandkab]

I'm a "Sube" guy...   My wife likes Audi....go figure.   
As for road bikes,  we've only had aprilia and Guzzi.   As for our Guzzi,  or more directly our Breva.  THere's just something about that bike that makes me never wanting to be without.  It's my "go to the garage and take a peek at it" bike. 
I'm  hoping Guzzi gives us another Breva (naked standard).  I really had sellers remorse when I sold my first Breva...  I would probably experience the same thing if I ever tried to sell my Futura.  But I've been told that I'm not allowed to sell it.   
I guess it'll go in the recroom when it retires.


richy

[oldbike54]

I did before I asked.  The only things I see are the presentation of the article and a failure to drink the kool-aid.
He's not flattering the Marquee, but being a contrarian isn't a crime -- yet.

  I can start posting pictures of the ungreased bearings, swollen filters, bubbling engines, warty gas tanks, fake recall service and peeling chrome I've collected if you think criticism of the brand is unjustified.

 Did I say it broke a rule ?

 We see this type of thing come up every 6 months or so , someone is frustrated with the Mothership because they aren't building a 120 HP 400 LB sporting motorcycle , all of the small blocks are junk , why can't Piaggio give us something that honors Moto Guuzi's racing heritage, Honda builds better bikes , Harley has a better dealer network , oh woe is me .

 All it really accomplishes is to deliver a slightly veiled insult to all of the happy small block owners who say the modern SB is their favorite motorbike ever , those folks like Smithswede who ride their POS V7's 500 miles a day , or Beaver who shows up at rallies all over the country on her junk behind the times old tech V7 . The Mothership ain't reading WG .

 Top that off with the fact that the article quoted in the OP comes from what amounts to a clickbait site , and there you have it .

 Dusty

[JeffOlson]

Perhaps the time is right for a take-over! We need to band together enough enthusiasts with deep pockets, who have friends with even deeper pockets, so we can buy Moto Guzzi from Piaggio! (This is not entirely in jest;  sometimes the custodian needs to hand over the keys to someone with more fire and vision…)

Another possibility, as with Apple Computer, is there is something waiting in the wings which will be truly exciting. Perhaps we just need to be patient.

[oldbike54]

^^^

 The quickest way to make a small fortune in the Italian motorbike business is to bring a large fortune with you 

 Dusty

[Turin]

Any one else remember a time on this forum back when guzzi offered only two models (V11 spines and Cali ev ) ? Everyone bitched that guzzi wasn't listening and wasn't making what they wanted... which was a new Eldorado and or a v7 sport style bike.

Roosting chickens?

[Kristian]

Seems you have an ax to grind . Maybe this isn't the best place for that .

 Dusty

Why isn't Guzzi forum the best place to vent Guzzi concerns? Are you fragile in some way? Are you a motorcyclist or bicyclist?

And why would venting concerns about Guzzi's future equate to having "an axe to grind"? Is that a stock sentence you've carried around your whole life and used anytime someone says something you disagreee with?

[Kristian]

(Deleted)

You know what? F-It. No point.

Yep. Doesn't sound like you'd have anything to contribute!

[oldbike54]

Why isn't Guzzi forum the best place to vent Guzzi concerns? Are you fragile in some way? Are you a motorcyclist or bicyclist?

And why would venting concerns about Guzzi's future equate to having "an axe to grind"? Is that a stock sentence you've carried around your whole life and used anytime someone says something you disagreee with?

 I'm a nice guy , but don't push it , understand ?

 Dusty

[Rich A]

Why isn't Guzzi forum the best place to vent Guzzi concerns?

Haven't seen many of your posts. What do you ride?

Rich A

[Tusayan]

Kristian rides an 1100 Sport similar to the one he rode 20+ years ago.  That one was quite unbelievably fast with Charlie Rice having done his best to make it into a grenade  , but IIRC it never did blow up and actually kept going fast except when the rear drive oil seal popped out one time, going very fast in very hot conditions... which apparently wasn't a great combination with an unvented rear drive unit.  In between, if I remember correctly, Kristian rode a lot of other stuff but in the end figured out what makes a timeless motorcycle. 

Meanwhile Guzzi, like Gilera having been taken over by the zoot suited Telecom Italia financed hordes from the south (Pontedera) forgot how to combine 'new', 'traditional' and 'tasteful' to produce the timeless Moto Guzzi effect in contemporary models... and instead settled in to become a large motorcycle assembly plant for a scooter manufacturer.

[oldbike54]

 Let's parse this out . When Moto Guzzi was being supported by the Govt in Italy , and trust me , they were being supported , they could lose money on a flagship model that sold in the tens . Now that Govt support has dried up , and they are required to produce at least some profit . Piaggio isn't very sentimental , they are a profit minded corporation . So , what new models are selling and at what price point ? Apparently the answer is the V7 , and the 1400 . Given the fiasco with the high performance 4 valve engines , it is easy to see why Piaggio is reluctant to give MG any money or space to develop a new sporting model .Is it not unreasonable to expect a company that sells what, 8,000 motorbikes a year to spend the R&D money necessary to create a modern LeMans that will sell in very limited numbers and probably lose money ? Maybe the new V85 will be a big success and put Guzzi well back into the black , similar to the way the R80 GS did for BMW .Funny isn't it , an incredibly basic MC saved BMW , allowing them to stay in business at a time when the Car side which controlled the company was ready to pull the plug on the MC division .

 Anyway , you can't reasonably expect a tiny little motorbike company that is now required to turn a profit to build another hi-tech 2-wheeler to compete with the big boys until they prove they can operate at a profit . The modern world doesn't allow a nonprofitable company to survive .

[twowheeladdict]

Let's parse this out . When Moto Guzzi was being supported by the Govt in Italy , and trust me , they were being supported , they could lose money on a flagship model that sold in the tens . Now that Govt support has dried up , and they are required to produce at least some profit . Piaggio isn't very sentimental , they are a profit minded corporation . So , what new models are selling and at what price point ? Apparently the answer is the V7 , and the 1400 . Given the fiasco with the high performance 4 valve engines , it is easy to see why Piaggio is reluctant to give MG any money or space to develop a new sporting model .Is it not unreasonable to expect a company that sells what, 8,000 motorbikes a year to spend the R&D money necessary to create a modern LeMans that will sell in very limited numbers and probably lose money ? Maybe the new V85 will be a big success and put Guzzi well back into the black , similar to the way the R80 GS did for BMW .Funny isn't it , an incredibly basic MC saved BMW , allowing them to stay in business at a time when the Car side which controlled the company was ready to pull the plug on the MC division .

 Anyway , you can't reasonably expect a tiny little motorbike company that is now required to turn a profit to build another hi-tech 2-wheeler to compete with the big boys until they prove they can operate at a profit . The modern world doesn't allow a nonprofitable company to survive .

You have to also consider that over half of all motorcycle sales are in the cruiser category.  That is why every single motorcycle manufacturer has something that they call a cruiser.  BMW and Ducati are only cruisers in name IMO.  Gotta go for a ride.  Still going to go look at the new V7s this morning.  Later.

[Huzo]

I feel a bit like a traitor, but I just put down a deposit on this bike (well, one that looks like that bike):


Why?

Comfort over long-distances at high speed
Weather protection
Power
Water-proof panniers
Panniers that open and close easily
No head buffeting (at least for my height)
Being able to field telephone calls while riding is a plus (my helmet setup is not great for that)

I love my Norge, but it is just not up to the task at hand. Its element is 40-60 miles per hour, on twisty, scenic roads. I need an Autobahn stormer for my 300-mile, 80 MPH roundtrip commute.

Jeez, don't feel too bad Jeff.
There'll always be people who want to invest in BMW commuters, I could see myself on one of those with a nice button up cardigan.
BTW..
Do they come in beige...?

[bpreynolds]

 We see this type of thing come up every 6 months or so , someone is frustrated with the Mothership because they aren't building a 120 HP 400 LB sporting motorcycle , all of the small blocks are junk , why can't Piaggio give us something that honors Moto Guuzi's racing heritage, Honda builds better bikes , Harley has a better dealer network , oh woe is me .

 All it really accomplishes is to deliver a slightly veiled insult to all of the happy small block owners who say the modern SB is their favorite motorbike ever , those folks like Smithswede who ride their POS V7's 500 miles a day , or Beaver who shows up at rallies all over the country on her junk behind the times old tech V7 . The Mothership ain't reading WG .

 Top that off with the fact that the article quoted in the OP comes from what amounts to a clickbait site , and there you have it .

 Dusty

:1: :1: :1: :1: :1: :1: :1:
Dusty, come on.  Six months?  You must think it�s Christmas with this kind of kindness.  It comes up every single damn day on this board.  It�s like �some� folks here have gotten addicted to the thuddish sound of a wooden club and a horse�s hide.  Bless their barrel chested, well-fed hearts, I know it�s stated out of a kind of selective memory and incredibly subjective love for the brand.  I see a few longtime and rightfully well respected members of this board who can barely make a post here - even on off topic subjects - without mentioning the so called disastrous direction of the company and how the new models are merely pieces of shite when compared with the old ones or competition.  It�s a forum so statements of opinion are welcome but can�t I, in turn, also call make generalized fat jokes about Guzzi riders, state  their ideas lazy and vaguely insulting?  This probably sounds a little harsh but why bother with consideration when they certainly do not demonstrate any restraint for current small block owners.  It�d be fine if most folks just said, �not my cup-o-tea� and left it at that, but then they gotta bemoan it like the steel cutter went down at the oats mill.   All I can say is they are certainly pumping some oxygen rich air into Planet Suspenders or else we�d have more than a few folks around here dropping like flies. 

Wait, forgot my smiley 

[Lannis]

It�s a forum so statements of opinion are welcome .....

Well, sometimes you wouldn't know it.   Some people just lose control when they see an opinion stated that's diametrically opposite to theirs ....

Lannis

[bpreynolds]

Well, sometimes you wouldn't know it.   Some people just lose control when they see an opinion stated that's diametrically opposite to theirs ....

Lannis

I have been giving yoga and meditation some thought.   

[oldbike54]

Well, sometimes you wouldn't know it.   Some people just lose control when they see an opinion stated that's diametrically opposite to theirs ....

Lannis

 Yeah , and some folks like to act like a Richard .

 Dusty

[tazio]

I like turtles







Think I'll go ride the Mighty GRiSO against doctor's orders...

[Zoom Zoom]

I like turtles







Think I'll go ride the Mighty GRiSO against doctor's orders...

And goat leggins.

John Henry

[Murray]

You have to also consider that over half of all motorcycle sales are in the cruiser category.  (in the USA)

Clarified! Sports bike and MX bikes here after the number one bike customer in the country Australia Post, Japan and Europe are similar I'd suggest, why HD has such a large market share in the USA but is normally in single or just into double digits in most other markets.

[tazio]

And goat leggins.

John Henry

 

[Chuck in Indiana]

bemoan it like the steel cutter went down at the oats mill.

  Say it ain't so..
I like small blocks. Is there a program for that?

[Idontwantapickle]

I feel a bit like a traitor, but I just put down a deposit on this bike (well, one that looks like that bike):


Why?

Comfort over long-distances at high speed
Weather protection
Power
Water-proof panniers
Panniers that open and close easily
No head buffeting (at least for my height)
Being able to field telephone calls while riding is a plus (my helmet setup is not great for that)

I love my Norge, but it is just not up to the task at hand. Its element is 40-60 miles per hour, on twisty, scenic roads. I need an Autobahn stormer for my 300-mile, 80 MPH roundtrip commute.

I can't argue that waterproof bags and other little details on the BMW are nice but a Norge isn't even in it's stride until you get to 70MPH. Mine cruises effortlessly at any legal speed and many that aren't! 40MPH is only 3rd gear. I would disagree strongly on that point as well as the power and weather protection.
I will not talk on the phone and operate a motorcycle, that is just asking for trouble.
The BMW you chose is a fine bike. My first street bike was BMW. I serviced quite a few over the years and they are a fine ride. But they are a bit too sterile for me.
I'm reminded of the Borg from Star Trek. I will not be assimilated.

Hunter

[bad Chad]

Indeed, something somewhere was not right if you felt your Norge was in its element from 40-60 on curvey mountain roads.   I do agree that it's a fun ride in that senario, but so is almost any Guzzi made after 1967!

The two valve Breva I ride is as happy as kitten to run nintey, in fact that's what it wants to do all the time,  I have to constantly keep myself in check, for obvious reasons 

[JeffOlson]

^ I think the head buffeting and bouncing around on the freeway bother me the most. I-5 is a tornado alley, with trucks everywhere stirring up a cyclonic wind blast.

Yeah, no bike is gong to be as stable, smooth, and quiet as a 7 Series, but I’d like to get closer to that. Most of my riding is to get to and from work, and I’d like to be less physically stressed at the end of my very long work days.

My other option is simply to drive and not bother trying to commute by motorcycle.

[bpreynolds]

Say it ain't so..
I like small blocks. Is there a program for that?

  Not around here, pal  You clearly enjoy outdated, under powered, 2nd or 3rd rate motorcycles.