Author Topic: Chinese Alternator problem on a Stelvio NTX  (Read 31103 times)

oldbike54

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Re: Chinese Alternator problem on a Stelvio NTX
« Reply #60 on: April 22, 2015, 09:14:32 PM »
Can't be true, Roy.  We're informed by experts here on the WG board that it makes NO difference what country anything comes from any more.   Any country is capable of building crap at times, so that means that Chinese bearings are no more likely to be "bad" than German or Swedish-sourced bearings.   

You can NOT use the country where any component was produced to make any judgment or decision at all about the potential quality of it.   To do so smacks of ... oh, I won't say, but it's ugly and reflects badly on the character of anyone who dares say it.

So tighten up and fly right there.   It's a new world now, get into step!!   ;)

Lannis (It's a small world after all, It's a small world after all, It's a small world after all, it's a small, small world  Sing it with me now, it's a small world after all ....)

 So is that not what you are implying here ?

  Dusty

Offline Kiwi_Roy

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Re: Chinese Alternator problem on a Stelvio NTX
« Reply #61 on: April 22, 2015, 09:40:48 PM »
I'm not saying all Chinese products are Junk, but a country where they think it's ok to put Melamine in baby formula because it tests like protein
would have no problem slipping a few off-spec components into a Guzzi alternator. If that reflects badly on me so be it.
The Electrical industry in Nth America is very concerned about the counterfeit components coming from China branded an labeled to look exactly like
a north American component but with workings that are downright dangerous.
I have a counterfeit Apple cell phone in my desk drawer that looks exactly like the real thing but works nothing like one.
BTW, the real Apples are also made in China, guess where the Chinese visitors go in Vancouver, straight to the Apple store to buy a Chinese Apple they
can't afford to buy in China. Not long ago they closed down a bogus Apple store in Beijing, even the employees thought it was a real store.
You can't make this stuff up.

As I said before I have spent a lot of time working in China over the last few years, I think I am qualified to comment on what I have seen.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2015, 09:44:09 PM by Kiwi_Roy »
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Offline brenwin

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Re: Chinese Alternator problem on a Stelvio NTX
« Reply #62 on: April 22, 2015, 09:47:18 PM »
Just to dig this up again I picked one up yesterday. Haven't had a chance to fit it to the dead alt yet.

Thanks Steve.

Pete

Your welcome Pete , I have another one on order just in case . I've been checking my charge while running and all good , still nervous though , lol !

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Offline Lannis

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Re: Chinese Alternator problem on a Stelvio NTX
« Reply #63 on: April 22, 2015, 09:50:28 PM »
So is that not what you are implying here ?

  Dusty

Of course not.   As has been pointed out many times, we use Chinese-made stuff every day and we're mostly still alive.   Some things they do right.

But some Chinese things, like SKS rifles or Chang-Jiang motorcycles, ARE in the "junk" class.   Nobody here buys Chinese cars, because they don't even come close to meeting the standards of performance and quality that we expect when we buy a car.    Most rebuilders won't use Chinese bearings if they can get American or European-made ones, because the metallurgy isn't up to snuff.

In my sardonic reply to Roy, I was referring back to the Hyosung post where the position was that "You can't go by what country it's made it to determine if it's good or not".   For some things, you CAN, and everyone knows it, even if they don't say it for fear of being called a racist or xenophobe or bigot.   I don't have that particular fear, so I don't mind saying it .....

Lannis
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Re: Chinese Alternator problem on a Stelvio NTX
« Reply #63 on: April 22, 2015, 09:50:28 PM »

oldbike54

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Re: Chinese Alternator problem on a Stelvio NTX
« Reply #64 on: April 22, 2015, 09:50:40 PM »
 Roy , I completely agree , any country that would allow such a thing to happen has a problem . Kind of like all of the sawdust in American breads , and the recent outbreak of Listeria in Bluebell ice cream , which according to local sources the company knew about and crossed their fingers and hoped for the best . I think these may be cases of corporate greed , and not an issue with a country .
 Lannis , you will notice that I never used the terms racist , or Xenophobe , because they are a cheap way to attack the opponent , like using the term political correctness is a cheap shot , meant to diminish an opponent in debate .
 Dusty
« Last Edit: April 22, 2015, 09:55:39 PM by oldbike54 »

Offline Lannis

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Re: Chinese Alternator problem on a Stelvio NTX
« Reply #65 on: April 22, 2015, 09:52:44 PM »
Roy , I completely agree , any country that would allow such a thing to happen has a problem . Kind of like all of the sawdust in American breads , and the recent outbreak of Listeria in Bluebell ice cream , which according to local sources the company knew about and crossed their fingers and hoped for the best . I think these may be cases of corporate greed , and not an issue with a country .

 Dusty

Yes, and all that stuff happens just as often in America as it does in China.   Pretty bad, I'd say.

Lannis
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Offline Wayne Orwig

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Re: Chinese Alternator problem on a Stelvio NTX
« Reply #66 on: April 22, 2015, 09:54:20 PM »
Just to toss in my $.02 take on it.
I worked for a large electronics engineering and manufacturing organization for a few decades. As they outsourced my job to cheaper locations, I trained people in Ireland, Mexico, Brazil and China. Well, and South Carolina.....  ~;
The Irish would try to 'cheat' my test requirements. When I caught them doing it, we would have a beer over it. I always like working with them. But I was never sure they were following the processes.
The Chinese would try to cheat the system too. When I caught them, they would just tell me that they fired so and so over it. I never liked working with them and never really trusted the results.
Notice the main difference is the beer.


 :BEER:



 
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Offline rodekyll

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Re: Chinese Alternator problem on a Stelvio NTX
« Reply #67 on: April 22, 2015, 11:32:19 PM »
So is that not what you are implying here ?

  Dusty

Sure he is.  Just in what he imagines to be a clever and plausibly deniable way.   ::)

Offline Waterbottle

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Re: Chinese Alternator problem on a Stelvio NTX
« Reply #68 on: April 23, 2015, 02:33:33 AM »
Wayne , beer is always the difference  ;D

  Dusty
I like the way you think  :D at least after knock off time
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Offline HDGoose

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Re: Chinese Alternator problem on a Stelvio NTX
« Reply #69 on: April 23, 2015, 10:09:59 AM »
Well then....this new knowledge means I have now lost interest in new Moto Guzzi's.



Offline Nic in Western NYS

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Re: Chinese Alternator problem on a Stelvio NTX
« Reply #70 on: April 23, 2015, 11:28:32 AM »
Will send my 2 bits into this discussion among this group's heavyweights.  The problem is that "China" is huge and diverse.  And, we have insufficient knowledge of the individual producers and insufficient trust that their government will provide adequate oversight to ensure a solid quality 'floor.'  The highest quality products in the world may be coming out of "China" but really they are coming from particular high quality producers that are in China.  I personally do not have high confidence in the "Made in China" brand, the way I do for the "Made in the EU" or even "Made in the USA" brands, due solely to my concerns about the lack of conscientiously enforced quality regulations in China.  It's basically a new society (b.1949) trying out a new economic system (since the '80s) and needs time to sort out the proper role for regulation.  At this point I would, assuming as a consumer I am ignorant of the specific quality standards of the company producing the item, default to comparing regulatory systems and would buy European or American.  If, however, a company with a brand to protect (e.g. Apple, or even Piaggio) chooses to hitch their brand to a parts producer in a country with a weak regulatory climate, I would tend to base my decision on the brand value of the end product. That is, Apple (or even Piaggio) has a lot to lose by putting in a poor quality component, and I rely on their vetting process to protect the goodwill associated with their own name.
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Offline blackcat

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Re: Chinese Alternator problem on a Stelvio NTX
« Reply #71 on: April 23, 2015, 12:09:25 PM »
Will send my 2 bits into this discussion among this group's heavyweights.  The problem is that "China" is huge and diverse.  And, we have insufficient knowledge of the individual producers and insufficient trust that their government will provide adequate oversight to ensure a solid quality 'floor.'  The highest quality products in the world may be coming out of "China" but really they are coming from particular high quality producers that are in China.  I personally do not have high confidence in the "Made in China" brand, the way I do for the "Made in the EU" or even "Made in the USA" brands, due solely to my concerns about the lack of conscientiously enforced quality regulations in China.  It's basically a new society (b.1949) trying out a new economic system (since the '80s) and needs time to sort out the proper role for regulation.  At this point I would, assuming as a consumer I am ignorant of the specific quality standards of the company producing the item, default to comparing regulatory systems and would buy European or American.  If, however, a company with a brand to protect (e.g. Apple, or even Piaggio) chooses to hitch their brand to a parts producer in a country with a weak regulatory climate, I would tend to base my decision on the brand value of the end product. That is, Apple (or even Piaggio) has a lot to lose by putting in a poor quality component, and I rely on their vetting process to protect the goodwill associated with their own name.

Exactly. A sub-contractor is only as good as the company that puts its name on the final product.
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Offline Lannis

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Re: Chinese Alternator problem on a Stelvio NTX
« Reply #72 on: April 23, 2015, 06:00:03 PM »
Yeah , no idea who the heavyweights Nic is referring to are , his comment is the best on this subject so far  ;-T

  Dusty

Can't be me, I've dropped about 30 pounds lately.   But you're right .... this is exactly what I said and Nic's got it, without being accused of being a xenophobic "hater" ...


"I personally do not have high confidence in the "Made in China" brand, the way I do for the "Made in the EU" or even "Made in the USA" brands, due solely to my concerns about the lack of conscientiously enforced quality regulations in China. "

Salute!

Lannis
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Offline Kiwi_Roy

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Re: Chinese Alternator problem on a Stelvio NTX
« Reply #73 on: April 23, 2015, 06:31:15 PM »
Perhaps we should just wait and see if any more Chinese parts fail. It seems like there is a good inexpensive fix, a Japanese replacement regulator so it must be a design farmed out for manufacture. It's cheap enough that you could have one on the shelf, hopefully the dealers
will take that into consideration.
http://store.alternatorparts.com/in254-voltage-regulator-for-denso-alternators.aspx
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denso
 
« Last Edit: April 23, 2015, 06:44:07 PM by Kiwi_Roy »
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Vasco DG

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Re: Chinese Alternator problem on a Stelvio NTX
« Reply #74 on: April 23, 2015, 06:41:25 PM »
FWIW the one I bought cost me $48AU inc GST @10%..

Pete

Offline Kiwi_Roy

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Re: Chinese Alternator problem on a Stelvio NTX
« Reply #75 on: April 23, 2015, 06:46:07 PM »
I did
Your point is?
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Offline Kiwi_Roy

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Re: Chinese Alternator problem on a Stelvio NTX
« Reply #76 on: April 23, 2015, 07:26:30 PM »
Trust me, you don 't want to know what the Chinese eat!


Sent from my shoe phone!
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ridingron

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Re: Chinese Alternator problem on a Stelvio NTX
« Reply #77 on: April 23, 2015, 08:46:46 PM »
So... anyone notice this Bosch unit is made in India ? ~; Dusty

Quote
I did
Your point is?

Not made in Germany?  Europe?

Vasco DG

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Re: Chinese Alternator problem on a Stelvio NTX
« Reply #78 on: April 24, 2015, 01:33:44 AM »
Our own member Phang put up some delightful pictures of some Singaporean delicacies a few years back. Dunno if they were Chinese or Malay inspired but the deep fries spiders were, Errr? Interesting, from a western perspective! ;D

Pete

Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Chinese Alternator problem on a Stelvio NTX
« Reply #79 on: April 24, 2015, 07:14:26 AM »
Trust me, you don 't want to know what the Chinese eat!


Sent from my shoe phone!

Our daughter in law (Hong Kong) will sit beside me during a feast and tell me whether I want to try that or not.  ;D Remember the TV show "Fear Factor" where they used to make people eat stuff?  "Oh, that good! A little garlic.."  ;D
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Offline brenwin

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Re: Chinese Alternator problem on a Stelvio NTX
« Reply #80 on: April 24, 2015, 12:33:30 PM »
Trust me, you don 't want to know what the Chinese eat!


Sent from my shoe phone!

I worked for a great company out of Hong Kong for a few years and lunch was an adventure everyday . Good thing I was brought up to eat what was put in front of me .
After seeing pictures of scorpions and other insects for sale in an open market from a buddy who went to Cambodia and Vietnam recently I think I got off easy !
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Offline Karl Von

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Re: Chinese Alternator problem on a Stelvio NTX
« Reply #81 on: April 25, 2015, 07:38:47 PM »
My father finally found the issue, it was a bad socket on one of the relays inside the fairing.  The relays all tested fine on the bench, he even purchased new heavy duty relays from a electrical shop and nothing changed.  After going through the wiring harness and testing the connectors he found the issue.   I had a similar issue on the fuse block on my guzzi sport a few years back.

Offline pyoungbl

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Re: Chinese Alternator problem on a Stelvio NTX
« Reply #82 on: April 25, 2015, 07:43:56 PM »
Skip,
     Thanks for the follow up on this.

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Offline Lannis

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Re: Chinese Alternator problem on a Stelvio NTX
« Reply #83 on: April 25, 2015, 07:50:58 PM »
My father finally found the issue, it was a bad socket on one of the relays inside the fairing.  The relays all tested fine on the bench, he even purchased new heavy duty relays from a electrical shop and nothing changed.  After going through the wiring harness and testing the connectors he found the issue.   I had a similar issue on the fuse block on my guzzi sport a few years back.

Always good to hear the end of the tale!   Thanks!

Lannis
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oldbike54

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Re: Chinese Alternator problem on a Stelvio NTX
« Reply #84 on: April 25, 2015, 08:15:43 PM »
 Yes , thanks  ;-T

  Dusty

Offline Johan

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Re: Chinese Alternator problem on a Stelvio NTX
« Reply #85 on: August 20, 2017, 11:17:30 AM »
Looked through this topic, but in between cultural and culinary discussions I could not find if the regulator can be exchanged without removing the alternator. I seem to have a defective unit as well. (see other thread http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=91891.0)


Apologies for re-opening this old topic.

Offline Tom

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Re: Chinese Alternator problem on a Stelvio NTX
« Reply #86 on: August 20, 2017, 03:56:47 PM »
So it wasn't the "Chinese" alternator.  It was the "German" relay.  Ach du lieber!   :grin: :grin: :grin:  The bike is a 2012 model and has been used for touring so has mileage.  Some parts will fail. 

If you're on the same train of thought for the country of origin for parts.  BEWARE SKF bearings has a factory in Dailian, China.  Swedish company.   :grin:  Moto Guzzi owner Arthur helped set it up on contract.  He's a German National and his wife Sumi is Indian.  He has a blue on blue EV in Germany.  Don't know what he's riding in NC.  So if you want you can blame him.  :shocked:

Damn shift spring broke in my Eldo hack.  Friggin' things don't last forever.  :rolleyes:
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Offline pyoungbl

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Re: Chinese Alternator problem on a Stelvio NTX
« Reply #87 on: August 20, 2017, 04:42:30 PM »
Actually it was the 'who knows where it was made' plug for that relay.  The wiring may well have come from Japan, looks like the Stelvio switch gear is something from Denso (good stuff, IMHO).  I think this thread did a good job of bringing out the worst pre formed opinions from what is generally a pretty level headed group. 
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Offline Tom

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Re: Chinese Alternator problem on a Stelvio NTX
« Reply #88 on: August 20, 2017, 04:59:29 PM »
 :1: :thumb:
From the Deep Deep South out in left field.  There are no stupid questions.  There are however stupid people asking questions.  🤣, this includes me.  😉

 

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