Unbiased Aero Lario test ride

[Chuck in Indiana]

Well, almost..
I had the Lario up at the Kid's place in Lake Como last weekend. We rode to Elkhart Lake for the Guzzi camp at the races, and had a great time. When we returned, I said, "Why don't you take the Lario out and cane the tits off of it for a while?" He's an unabashed big block guy, and has always said he was uninterested in the small blocks. Not enough power. We've all heard this argument. 
He used to race some back in the day, and is a good judge of what a motorcycle is, in MHO. So, he suited up and rumbled off. This was the first time I've had a chance to listen to it go off in the distance. Lovely.
I waited for his return.. and waited... beginning to think maybe that stupid Siemans relay I put on the ignition had failed  when I heard it coming back.
He shut it down, and the first thing he said was, "Guzzi effed up, didn't they?" "This will absolutely smoke the new small blocks.. I'd buy one tomorrow." "Loved the narrowness of the bike, didn't hate the integrated brakes, although what's up with that front brake?? Fix that."  (There's a rust spot where it sat for years with the pads stuck to it. I bead blasted it before painting, and thought it would get better. It hasn't.)
"Back end feels good, Front end is underdamped." Told him I had some FACs on back order. "You really have to get a full handful with that throttle, don't you?" There's no fixing that with the stock Lario controls.
"Runs perfect, what did you do to the carbs?" "Nothin. Even a blind hawg finds an acorn every now and then.. I'd rather be lucky than good.."
"What was Guzzi thinking? Maybe they didn't have enough money to develop this engine/Ippo and the new V11S at the same time? They could have had this in the small block line for 20 years...."
Uh, he liked it.

[O]

Sure, just keep droning on about your one-of-a-kind SB, taunting the rest of us...

Seriously though, thanks for sharing more news about the Aero Lario.  From concept to completion, it is far and away the most intriguing project I've seen documented on the WG pages.  It surely is a mystery as to why MG never did a road-based application of this engine.

[tiger_one]

He shut it down, and the first thing he said was, "Guzzi effed up, didn't they?" "This will absolutely smoke the new small blocks.. I'd buy one tomorrow."

 :1:  I'm afraid the higher ups in MG don't get it.

[twhitaker]

:1:  I'm afraid the higher ups in MG don't get it.

The higher ups at most any company don't get it.

[matchless62]

I have been told by a factory type the v8 is coming, maybe with any luck we will get two extra valves per side and then we will have something truly magical.

[Chuck in Indiana]

I have been told by a factory type the v8 is coming, maybe with any luck we will get two extra valves per side and then we will have something truly magical.

The original Lario was pretty darn good, until, "What's that noise?" 

[kevdog3019]

Cool! 
Pin a double piston on front for a couple bucks and you'll stop GP style.  Simple job.  We both have the 36's and mine takes very little wrist to make it scoot.  Almost the same delivery as your Centauro (yes, that little) but not as twitchy (carbs).  Mine's probably getting a LOT of fuel at little opening (168 mains)  .  gas mileage: low 40's when not too spirited
We see two ways to get some real character into a bike that Guzzi could take. both of which they dropped.   

[Chuck in Indiana]

Cool! 
Pin a double piston on front for a couple bucks and you'll stop GP style.  Simple job.  We both have the 36's and mine takes very little wrist to make it scoot.  Almost the same delivery as your Centauro (yes, that little) but not as twitchy (carbs).  Mine's probably getting a LOT of fuel at little opening (168 mains)  .  gas mileage: low 40's when not too spirited
We see two ways to get some real character into a bike that Guzzi could take. both of which they dropped. 

That's always seemed strange, to me. I'm running 130 mains with the same carb, and it's perfect, as near as I can tell. I can't imagine 168s on it. I'll just have to throw that one in the "Some things are not to be understood" file.. It takes a *lot* of throttle rotation to get them open, though.

[huub]

pretty amazing results , with the lario i miss the torque at low revs the old two valve engine had.
the aero engine is probably best of both , enough torque at low revs , and the bite of the lario at high revs.
just one irritating problem , where can i get one :-(

[kevdog3019]

That's always seemed strange, to me. I'm running 130 mains with the same carb, and it's perfect, as near as I can tell. I can't imagine 168s on it. I'll just have to throw that one in the "Some things are not to be understood" file.. It takes a *lot* of throttle rotation to get them open, though.

Well... to be fair I started at 140's and it was over-fueling in the mid-range.  So... I decided to go down one atomizer and everything smoothed out, except the WOT needed MUCH more fuel.  I thought I would creep up from there.  Well... it seems the creeping kept going all the way to 168 and now it's as perfect as I can tell all the way up.  So, moral of the story is there's probably two ways to skin the cat and my thinking may have been the long road in hindsight, but it had to do with a glutten of fuel for the uppers (which it can handle) kills the plugs in the mids.  Whether I balanced that with my thinking of atomization I'm not certain, but it fuels great.  Might I have just gone down to 138 and called it good, maybe. At any rate 130 is way too low for my engine.  I'm none too rich as it sits currently.  Weird about how little my throttle takes for go power compared to yours.  I've even got big thick grips on mine and rotation is a whisker to get her moving.  Most similar to that centauro and less wrist than my V11 lemans.  Never come close to maxing the wrist, springs are pretty light.  Different beasts for sure.   

[kevdog3019]

pretty amazing results , with the lario i miss the torque at low revs the old two valve engine had.
the aero engine is probably best of both , enough torque at low revs , and the bite of the lario at high revs.
just one irritating problem , where can i get one :-(

I agree Huub, but once lightened internals are used and compression is increased and lots more fuel is added to the fire it's pretty big down low. There's not that off/on when you hit 4500 RPM like on a stock lario.  It's probably more like the BB 8 valves now in evenness from what I hear.  Never drove one.

[Chuck in Indiana]

pretty amazing results , with the lario i miss the torque at low revs the old two valve engine had.
the aero engine is probably best of both , enough torque at low revs , and the bite of the lario at high revs.
just one irritating problem , where can i get one :-(

Yeah, I think the long intake runners that I was forced to use to get the carbs where I wanted them may have actually helped the low rpm torque. At any rate, it pulls very well all through the rpm range. When the Kid and I were returning from the races, we were riding in fairly close formation through the Kettle Moraine area, and when he pulled out to pass with the Grease O, I could stay with him easily. NOW, he wasn't hammering it, but we were making good time.  The stock Lario didn't have that kind of roll on torque.
At any rate, if Mother Goose *finally* decides to build a small block hemi, I'm on board.

[Chuck in Indiana]

Dawg, as a musician, I'm sure that you realize that carb tuning is as much "art and mystery" as science
This is instructive..

[kevdog3019]

Dawg, as a musician, I'm sure that you realize that carb tuning is as much "art and mystery" as science
This is instructive..

Thanks for this Chuck. Looks like my musician brain wrapped around things ok.

[Stormtruck2]

Would be fantastic to see you both at Road America where you could wring each bike out side by side to get real comparisons. Bet we could sell tickets for that event???

[kevdog3019]

Would be fantastic to see you both at Road America where you good wring each bike out side by side to get real comparisons. Bet we could sell tickets for that event???

Yep, but two VERY different beasts. About all they share is the frame, trans, swing arm and tank. I pretty much have the Milich V65 racer set up on the suspension, brakes and gearing. It's a little raw and visceral overall but very solid. The entire bike is an upgraded performance machine from stock. Saying this it is not a mile eater bike you want to spend hours on (stiff suspension, slightly lowered seat for a 34" inseam chap like myself). I would be curious what Chuck's engine feels like in comparison for sure.

[oldbike54]

Would be fantastic to see you both at Road America where you good wring each bike out side by side to get real comparisons. Bet we could sell tickets for that event???

 Yeah , both of these guys keep talking smack , so once again I invite them both to Cedar Vale next Apr for a match race . Just for good measure , MWrenn can show up with his modern SB with the 4 valve heads . C'mon you guys , bragging rights and all 

  Dusty

[Chuck in Indiana]

Yeah , both of these guys keep talking smack , so once again I invite them both to Cedar Vale next Apr for a match race . Just for good measure , MWrenn can show up with his modern SB with the 4 valve heads . C'mon you guys , bragging rights and all 

  Dusty

Ya know, Dusty.. that would really be fun. We have three completely different bikes, built for different reasons. The main problem is it's 700 miles of interstate travel for me,(Yuck) Dawg's is even farther.
No racin' though. Maybe a.. ahem.. performance comparison.. 

[kevdog3019]

Ya know, Dusty.. that would really be fun. We have three completely different bikes, built for different reasons. The main problem is it's 700 miles of interstate travel for me,(Yuck) Dawg's is even farther.
No racin' though. Maybe a.. ahem.. performance comparison.. 

Chuck says it best. Each bike was built for a different purpose. That's the cool part about your own build; very personal.

[charlie b]

Chuck,

Since you're going to modify the brakes anyway...why not ditch the stock throttle and get a Thomaselli.  It was one of the better mods I did to the T5.  Have to get a maser cylinder/lever, switch housing and the throttle.  But, it is worth not having to do the double fistful of throttle dance every time you want to go fast.  Makes it seem like you have even more power :)

The side benefit is the solid throttle stops, both low end and high end.  Haven't broken a throttle cable since I put it on.  :)

[oldbike54]

Chuck says it best. Each bike was built for a different purpose. That's the cool part about your own build; very personal.

 Funny , I thought they were all built to ride , silly me  Mike Wrenn rode his to Cedar Vale , in the rain , uphill both ways , 40 MPH headwind coming and going 

 Dusty

[LowRyter]

I got to ride Brad's Griso at Elkhart.  The bike has been breathed on and is a perky beast.  After I rode it, he told me he was anticipating that would it blow up and he was planning to put 1400 cylinders and top end on it.  After he mentioned that, I realized why he wanted me to ride it. 

Luckily, I didn't blow it up.   

[oldbike54]

I got to ride Brad's Griso at Elkhart.  The bike has been breathed on and is a perky beast.  After I rode it, he told me he was anticipating that would it blow up and he was planning to put 1400 cylinders and top end on it.  After he mentioned that, I realized why he wanted me to ride it. 

Luckily, I didn't blow it up.   

 Whew !

  Dusty

[father guzzi obrian]

Chuck,
If you want more front brake, I have the full front brake system from my 02 Lemans with master cylinder and steel braided lines, I can send em to you if you want em to cover some of my storage bill.  Say the word.  Ready to bring the bike back now, got a new job and Pete has a guy picking up his Mana, so I have an empty slot. I'll call you on the details, but the brakes are yours if you want em, I also have some new petal rotors I was going to put on my Griso before I sold it to Bill Ross if your interested in one finger brakes

[kevdog3019]

Chuck,
If you want more front brake, I have the full front brake system from my 02 Lemans with master cylinder and steel braided lines, I can send em to you if you want em to cover some of my storage bill.  Say the word.  Ready to bring the bike back now, got a new job and Pete has a guy picking up his Mana, so I have an empty slot. I'll call you on the details, but the brakes are yours if you want em, I also have some new petal rotors I was going to put on my Griso before I sold it to Bill Ross if your interested in one finger brakes

If it's a dual puck golds all he needs are the calipers and a simple adapter Ed sells. MC for the hand lever remains stock. Easy peasy.

[kevdog3019]

Funny , I thought they were all built to ride , silly me  Mike Wrenn rode his to Cedar Vale , in the rain , uphill both ways , 40 MPH headwind coming and going 

 Dusty

Yes, but I'm not sadistic enough to cover that many miles with THIS bike. I don't do long distance on any bike anymore (or car for that matter) let alone this one. My rides are 20-60 min. out my back door and into the playground. The bike is what it is for THIS reason not for mile munching. 

[kevdog3019]

Chuck,

Since you're going to modify the brakes anyway...why not ditch the stock throttle and get a Thomaselli.  It was one of the better mods I did to the T5.  Have to get a maser cylinder/lever, switch housing and the throttle.  But, it is worth not having to do the double fistful of throttle dance every time you want to go fast.  Makes it seem like you have even more power :)

The side benefit is the solid throttle stops, both low end and high end.  Haven't broken a throttle cable since I put it on.  :)

I do find it strange he has to give so much throttle with these carbs. Mine is so much less than the stock 30's. I breathe on the throttle and it revs. I do love it though not having to spank the throttle for go juice. Like you say it helps give the illusion when much less gives much more...

[Vasco DG]

I got to ride Brad's Griso at Elkhart.  The bike has been breathed on and is a perky beast.  After I rode it, he told me he was anticipating that would it blow up and he was planning to put 1400 cylinders and top end on it.  After he mentioned that, I realized why he wanted me to ride it. 

Luckily, I didn't blow it up.   

While the 1400 cylinders and pistons will fit there might be some issues. There is a reason the Cali is twin plugged and it isn't performance.

On the subject of the different smallblocks I'd love to see a back to back comparison and not one simply about outright top speed or acceleration.

Pete

[Chuck in Indiana]

Chuck,
If you want more front brake, I have the full front brake system from my 02 Lemans with master cylinder and steel braided lines, I can send em to you if you want em to cover some of my storage bill.  Say the word.  Ready to bring the bike back now, got a new job and Pete has a guy picking up his Mana, so I have an empty slot. I'll call you on the details, but the brakes are yours if you want em, I also have some new petal rotors I was going to put on my Griso before I sold it to Bill Ross if your interested in one finger brakes

Thanks for that, Jon.. but all I'm planning on doing is pulling the stock rotors and taking a light cut off of them to get rid of the rust pits. The stock brakes and controls will stay, I'm an antiquer after all, and prefer the bike to stay as original looking as I can keep it. (except for those big jugs) 

[kevdog3019]

Thanks for that, Jon.. but all I'm planning on doing is pulling the stock rotors and taking a light cut off of them to get rid of the rust pits. The stock brakes and controls will stay, I'm an antiquer after all, and prefer the bike to stay as original looking as I can keep it. (except for those big jugs) 

See now, this is the difference I'm talking about. Chuck prefers them "antique" with big jugs and I like the more "modern" sporty smaller jugs. By the sounds Mike can't leave well enough alone. He wants them just perfect and "fake" is all in your head according to him.